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Project Cafe Rumor Cafe [Weinerpoop Post 7513]

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B

bgassassin

Member
The only disappointment I could see myself having with Nintendo and E3, albeit a mild one, would be that controller is an actual traditional controller with a screen. I still would like to see the screen be a shell and improved motion controls (similar to Move) be able to connect into the shell representing a traditional style controller. This way pointer/motion still is a priority and the "traditional" is more of an option. We've seen with the Wiimote that the port allows connectivity to multiple things. I don't see why it or something similar can't be used to connect to the screen.

lednerg said:
That's basically what I was getting at in my big first post on NeoGAF. The Wii was Nintendo's effort to prolong the Gamecube hardware. It was Gamecube v1.5, if you will. The Cafe will be the first "next generation" console Nintendo has made in over 10 years. Sessler's a smarter guy than his show affords him to be.

EDIT:

The thing that's been keeping hope alive in me for the Cafe, more than any random rumor ever could, is Iwata's press briefing from April. If you haven't read it, then I suggest you take a look. It's an okay English translation of the event, which was probably done on the spot.

In it, you have a president of a company who comes off as being very humble. He publicly acknowledges where they have gone wrong in the recent past, and talks about how they are accepting outside help to fix things. He even readily admits that they've lost the support of Western developers due to the Wii's hardware limitations. That's a big "no shit" to us, but to hear it coming from the president of Nintendo is like a breath of fresh air. Usually, executives aren't so candid about stuff like that. He then talks about how Nintendo's "go it alone" strategy really hurt them with the Wii's online model, and that they're actively seeking 3rd party help on that matter now.

Anyway, it's a good read.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I've seen bits of it mentioned before, but will definitely check it out when I get the chance.

I really hope Nintendo gets things going with Western developers. Now that Japan is becoming more about the handheld, it's the Westerners who are spending on the home front. I also think the online aspect will be vastly improved from what we've seen before. I know some want to look at the 3DS, but I don't see Nintendo copying what they did there.
 
S

snesfreak

Banned
AceBandage said:
Of course.
But it won't be the same as
http://www.thunderboltgames.com/s/reviews/ps/chronotrigger_2.PNG[IMG]
to
[IMG]http://www.ffonline.com/media/news/040102/ff9pcd.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
I prefer CT in that example.
Click to expand...
 
I

InsaneZero

Member
I just thought of the best way that Nintendo could demonstrate the Cafe:

First, Iwata comes onstage and does his usual hype talk. Then, at the end of his speech, the console (not the controller) is revealed, 3DS-style. We then get a listing of games that will be on the system, followed by a montage of developers' impressions. During this montage, Iwata disappears from stage, and Reggie comes in when the lights come back on.

At this point, people are just exactly wondering what the Cafe can do. So, Reggie promises to show just that, but instead of them demonstrating the power of the Cafe, he states that he'll let us (the live audience) do it for them. While he's speaking, there'll be some racing sounds in the background. Lo and behold, the lights go out and Reggie shows us what appears to be a trailer for an HD F-Zero.

In the darkness, 64 guests in the front row are handed what seems to be a controller with some instructions on the screen. At the end of the "trailer", a shot of a race track with 64 hovercars appear. But wait, these cars seem to be labeled with nicknames, almost like...

3!
2!
1!
GO!

The lights come back on, to reveal 16 more Cafe consoles along with 64 controllers that the people in the front row are actually using to play the game with their own screens! The main screen acts as a "Spectator Mode", to follow the action as it goes on live. And as the people are playing, Reggie gives us a speech of "This is the power of our new console".

Of course, none of this will happen, so I expect to be disappointed now. At the same time, being disappointed now allows me some time to set my expectations to a much more reasonable level.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
AceBandage said:
I doubt we'll get another "mind=blown" generation until we go to holographic gaming.
Click to expand...
Skip holographic, we should just go with this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422147

Cafe 2?

My point is: the 360 CPU sucks. IBM may have been a major player a decade ago, but that was then. From a performance/watt POV, it's a lousy chip. And Nintendo seems to be going with an overclocked/revised version for the sole purpose of no hassle 360 ports. Considering I expect a modest TDP, going with that low performance/watt cpu is definitely going to deflate performance. There's a lot of wasted watts with this decision. Watts that could have been better spent elsewhere.
Click to expand...
How many watts does Xenon pull in it's 45nm form? That's more relevant than it's 90 and 65nm iterations. I've been under the impression that PPC was pretty efficient, at least in terms of area(/cost), but maybe that's just relative to x86. Stuff like ARM is probably even more efficient, but would it be able to rival or beat a modern PPC architecture clock for clock? Basically, I'm curious what other CPUs would be adequate for a home console other than PPCs?

On a similar note, have the rumors even said it's just a revised 360 CPU? IBM's PPC line is massive and there are at least a few new chip lines since they developed Xenon that the new CPU could be based on. Nintendo would probably prefer to go with one of the newer ones anyway so they could keep out-of-order execution, which Xenon lacks. That would require more wattage, but it didn't seem to bother them in the GCN/Wii.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
It's impossible to say what kind of PPC they would go with, really.
Like you said, the range of them is huge and actually spans multiple companies.
I think there was a rumor once that is was a derivative of the Cell.
 
I

Instro

Member
InsaneZero said:
The lights come back on, to reveal 16 more Cafe consoles along with 64 controllers that the people in the front row are actually using to play the game with their own screens! The main screen acts as a "Spectator Mode", to follow the action as it goes on live. And as the people are playing, Reggie gives us a speech of "This is the power of our new console".
Click to expand...

I was thinking about something like that myself, it would be a pretty cool idea for when you do 4 player local multiplayer.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
klier said:
For real. The people who are saying we're nearing photo realism are seriously blind.
Click to expand...
Yes, but as I explained, it doesn't matter. It costs too much money to even come as close to photo realism as *this* generation allows. As long as 3D models are being created by hand, it's irrelevant if the hardware can display photorealistic models in realtime or not.
 
E

EricDiesel

Member
That's not a fair comparison since I'm fairly sure that's an emulator screenshot. Looks crisper/less pixelated than I remember FF9 looking.

Also, the problem isn't so much that graphics CAN'T look better, it's just that it takes longer, costs more, and requires a bigger staff to make these prettier models/textures/shaders. Unless you want to pay $70 or $80 per game, they can't keep on the bleeding edge. We've already gone from games taking weeks to make back in the Atari 2600 era to taking 2+ YEARS for a 360/PS3 game.

I think games look fine as-is and if we only see incremental leaps from here on out, I'd be more than happy. I'm more interested in how gameplay will innovate with new tech than how much prettier games will look, anyway.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
AceBandage said:
That's really quite impossible without Nintendo spending extra.
Click to expand...

True.

Pachter also said that Wii would have a Wii HD upgrade and that the 3DS was selling for too low of a price.

I wouldn't take what he says about Cafe seriously at all--it's obvious he has no clue just like the rest of us. Even the smallest estimates from the devs had the Cafe at a 'notch' above 360/PS3.
 
B

Bert

Member
chaosblade said:
Skip holographic, we should just go with this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=422147

Cafe 2?
Click to expand...

This. Amazed that thread got so little attention, surely it's the logical conclusion of Wii/Kinect/Move? That is the kind of immersion Nintendo should be aiming for, which is why I'm so confused by the apparent direction of Cafe.

Regarding diminishing returns of graphics, I don't think we're there yet. I'm playing LA Noire at the moment and parts of it are absolutely stunning, but the body animation and the cloth physics just aren't right at all. It's made worse by the fact that the faces are so good.

We need more detailed geometry, and better animation. I think the budget problem will be solved to some extent by better 3D scanning technology.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Bert said:
This. Amazed that thread got so little attention, surely it's the logical conclusion of Wii/Kinect/Move? That is the kind of immersion Nintendo should be aiming for, which is why I'm so confused by the apparent direction of Cafe.

Regarding diminishing returns of graphics, I don't think we're there yet. I'm playing LA Noire at the moment and parts of it are absolutely stunning, but the body animation and the cloth physics just aren't right at all. It's made worse by the fact that the faces are so good.

We need more detailed geometry, and better animation. I think the budget problem will be solved to some extent by better 3D scanning technology.
Click to expand...


Technology like in that thread is still year away from being viable in gaming consoles.
 
B

bgassassin

Member
AceBandage said:
Technology like in that thread is still year away from being viable in gaming consoles.
Click to expand...

This is my thinking. That tech is "Cafe 3" at the soonest. The one I linked seems more reasonable for the next, next gen.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Yeah, full interaction AR is completely possible, even this gen.
It's just... not very gamer friendly. Too much movement and you can't have as complex of a game with it.
 
W

WillyFive

Member
AceBandage said:
There's nothing good about who you are or what you do.
:(
Click to expand...

His opinion on this kind of stuff is weird, but you do know who Orioto is, right?

I have nine different wallpapers cycling on my desktop, they are all his.
 
W

WillyFive

Member
AceBandage said:
It was a Family Guy quote.
Click to expand...

Quotes are used in context, what they say also mean what you say. Someone may have said it first for a reason, that doesn't mean it has no reason if you use it again.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Willy105 said:
Quotes are used in context, what they say also mean what you say. Someone may have said it first for a reason, that doesn't mean it has no reason if you use it again.
Click to expand...


Hey, I didn't shoot Orioto, and you can't prove I did.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
So, in the latest Invisible Walls, Shane Satterfield claimed he heard of a few really big 3rd party Café announcements. Sadly, when he seemed to spill something, Pachter cut him off. Anyway, if I got his tone correctly, it seems he hinted at GTA being one of those announcements.
 
B

Bert

Member
AceBandage said:
Technology like in that thread is still year away from being viable in gaming consoles.
Click to expand...

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I know that tech isn't viable, but the Wii was the first real step on the road to it (ignoring things like EyeToy and GameTrak), I'm surprised to see Nintendo apparently pulling away from that direction and back to the traditional control screen with buttons system that Cafe seems to be. Especially considering how successful Wii and Kinect have been.

If I'd been asked to predict Wii2 6 months ago I'd have said a better Wiimote combined with HD graphics and some form of Kinect camera for whole body interaction.

The biggest problem to solve with VR is movement of course, ultimately despite what my eyes see I'm still in my living room and can fall over my coffee table.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
wsippel said:
So, in the latest Invisible Walls, Shane Satterfield claimed he heard of a few really big 3rd party Café announcements. Sadly, when he seemed to spill something, Pachter cut him off. Anyway, if I got his tone correctly, it seems he hinted at GTA being one of those announcements.
Click to expand...

*whispers*

ESRB...


ESRB...


ESRB....
 
A

antonz

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
*whipspers*

ESRB...


ESRB...


ESRB....
Click to expand...

If that Montage reel were true that would be a pretty huge moment.

01net early on hinted the shit out of GTAV playing a huge role at Cafe launch even if not exclusive
 
B

bgassassin

Member
AceBandage said:
Yeah, full interaction AR is completely possible, even this gen.
It's just... not very gamer friendly. Too much movement and you can't have as complex of a game with it.
Click to expand...

I think you can eventually have it complex, which is why it would need to wait another gen. But if you think about it the new controller is a step in that direction due to the streaming video. AR would be a major component of a console like that, but so would streaming the more complex games to the viewer for VR as well. In fact you could have it practically mimic what Nintendo is doing this coming gen. Want to play the game through VR? Go ahead. Want to play it on the TV? You can do that to. And if you want you can play on the VR while others watch the TV. Now I agree that video has more movement than how I see Miyamoto wanting to do it based on his description. Instead of running and walking like the guy in the video, an analog stick could still be used while your head movement controls the camera.

But let me stop because the new gen hasn't even been properly revealed. :p
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
wsippel said:
So, in the latest Invisible Walls, Shane Satterfield claimed he heard of a few really big 3rd party Café announcements. Sadly, when he seemed to spill something, Pachter cut him off. Anyway, if I got his tone correctly, it seems he hinted at GTA being one of those announcements.
Click to expand...


That was certainly implied in an early 01net leak.

Bert said:
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I know that tech isn't viable, but the Wii was the first real step on the road to it (ignoring things like EyeToy and GameTrak), I'm surprised to see Nintendo apparently pulling away from that direction and back to the traditional control screen with buttons system that Cafe seems to be. Especially considering how successful Wii and Kinect have been.

If I'd been asked to predict Wii2 6 months ago I'd have said a better Wiimote combined with HD graphics and some form of Kinect camera for whole body interaction.

The biggest problem to solve with VR is movement of course, ultimately despite what my eyes see I'm still in my living room and can fall over my coffee table.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the market for the Wii (entry gaming) is getting crowded. Move, Kinect, even the Wii itself would compete with the Cafe.
Therefore, they veer off in a new direction. Social gaming.
This is how Nintendo will stay relevant. Continue to take gaming in different directions.

bgassassin said:
I think you can eventually have it complex, which is why it would need to wait another gen. But if you think about it the new controller is a step in that direction due to the streaming video. AR would be a major component of a console like that, but so would streaming the more complex games to the viewer for VR as well. In fact you could have it practically mimic what Nintendo is doing this coming gen. Want to play the game through VR? Go ahead. Want to play it on the TV? You can do that to. And if you want you can play on the VR while others watch the TV. Now I agree that video has more movement than how I see Miyamoto wanting to do it based on his description. Instead of running and walking like the guy in the video, an analog stick could still be used while your head movement controls the camera.

But let me stop because the new gen hasn't even been properly revealed. :p
Click to expand...

The problem is that AR is kind of superficial. The game can't fully interact with the real world. Just overlay it. And VR is basically just taking 3D gaming a bit farther.
I dunno if I'd consider either the next evolution in mainstream gaming. They'll be neat little side things, like they have been for the past decade.
 
I

Instro

Member
wsippel said:
So, in the latest Invisible Walls, Shane Satterfield claimed he heard of a few really big 3rd party Café announcements. Sadly, when he seemed to spill something, Pachter cut him off. Anyway, if I got his tone correctly, it seems he hinted at GTA being one of those announcements.
Click to expand...

Well shit. If GTA announcement is legit we will also be hearing from Retro next week as well then.
 
B

bgassassin

Member
AceBandage said:
The problem is that AR is kind of superficial. The game can't fully interact with the real world. Just overlay it. And VR is basically just taking 3D gaming a bit farther.
I dunno if I'd consider either the next evolution in mainstream gaming. They'll be neat little side things, like they have been for the past decade.
Click to expand...

It must happen. This is the only logical path to get us to PS9.
 
B

Bert

Member
AceBandage said:
The problem is that the market for the Wii (entry gaming) is getting crowded. Move, Kinect, even the Wii itself would compete with the Cafe.
Therefore, they veer off in a new direction. Social gaming.
This is how Nintendo will stay relevant. Continue to take gaming in different directions.
Click to expand...

I'm yet to be convinced that "social gaming" is either where Cafe is going (expensive controllers and probably a poor online system are hardly conducive to multiplayer) nor that it's the blue ocean that motion gaming was. I suppose it depends what you define as social gaming, but if it's not multiplayer, and it's not Zynga style Facebook gaming, what is it?

As I said in my first post after the Nikkei article was confirmed, I just don't get what the angle for Cafe is. I'm hoping all will become clear on Tuesday and I expect that there is more than is currently known about the system.

Mainly I'm just disappointed that a concept that really caught my imagination in the Wii but was poorly executed isn't being followed up. I thought that was Nintendo's style: innovate then refine.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
bgassassin said:
It must happen. This is the only logical path to get us to PS9.
Click to expand...


Which brings up an interesting idea.
Full mind gaming would definitely be awesome. It would be like a fully controlled dream. I actually think we're closer to that than holographic gaming.

Bert said:
I'm yet to be convinced that "social gaming" is either where Cafe is going (expensive controllers and probably a poor online system are hardly conducive to multiplayer) nor that it's the blur ocean that motion gaming was. I suppose it depends what you define as social gaming, but if it's not multiplayer, and it's not Zynga style Facebook gaming, what is it?

As I said in my first post after the Nikkei article was confirmed, I just don't get what the angle for Cafe is. I'm hoping all will become clear on Tuesday and I expect that there is more than is currently known about the system.

Mainly I'm just disappointed that a concept that really caught my imagination in the Wii but was poorly executed isn't being followed up. I thought that was Nintendo's style: innovate then refine.
Click to expand...


This is Nintendo's vision of a social gaming console future.

Basically, full interaction in every game with your friends at any time. Drop in/drop out, being able to watch your friend play anything, constant updates and downloads.

ivysaur12 said:
Oh god. I can't believe I have jury duty on Tuesday. I hope I get excused.
Click to expand...


I told you, go in yelling that the defendant is guilty.
 
B

Barack Lesnar

Banned
GTA Cafe?

21nmiar.jpg
 
B

Bert

Member
AceBandage said:
Which brings up an interesting idea.
Full mind gaming would definitely be awesome. It would be like a fully controlled dream. I actually think we're closer to that than holographic gaming.
Click to expand...

In total agreement here that that is where we should be heading, would solve all the problems with AR/VR. Though I've seen nothing that suggests mind control will progress beyond the simple binary stuff we have now.

This is Nintendo's vision of a social gaming console future.

Basically, full interaction in every game with your friends at any time. Drop in/drop out, being able to watch your friend play anything, constant updates and downloads.
Click to expand...

So...OnLive?
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Bert said:
In total agreement here that that is where we should be heading, would solve all the problems with AR/VR. Though I've seen nothing that suggests mind control will progress beyond the simple binary stuff we have now.



So...OnLive?
Click to expand...


Except without the compression and lag.
 
B

Bert

Member
AceBandage said:
Except without the compression and lag.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not convinced. Probably because I'm not a massive online multiplayer fan, I prefer quality single player experiences or local multiplayer.

I've been Nintendo plus another since SNES, but I'll probably pass if the entire console USP is based around playing people online. Especially considering Nintendo's track record with online experiences.
 
B

bgassassin

Member
Bert said:
Yeah, not convinced. Probably because I'm not a massive online multiplayer fan, I prefer quality single player experiences or local multiplayer.

I've been Nintendo plus another since SNES, but I'll probably pass if the entire console USP is based around playing people online. Especially considering Nintendo's track record with online experiences.
Click to expand...

Looking at their track record is understandable, but considering Iwata acknowledged that they can't do it on their own we are left to believe that they got the right people to handle it.
 
S

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Possible Cafe Games at E3 (Speculation)

Nintendo
- EAD ghost game Miyamoto mentioned (Luigi's Mansion 2?)
- Pikmin 3
- New Super Mario Bros. HD
- Cafe Relax? Or maybe Wii Relax still for Wii if it gets done
- Tomodachi Collection HD announcement? (Sakamoto is back!)
- The Legend of Zelda Four Swords Adventures HD (Aonuma liked idea)
- New Nintendo IP from a western developer (Iwata hinted interest)
- HD Classics for download? (if 3D classics was confirmed why not?)

Licensee
- Metal Gear HD Collection with Twin Snakes? Possible? (Konami)
- Grand Theft Auto 5 (Iwata is obsessed with this franchise)
- Call of Duty (Iwata is super obsessed with this franchise)
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Bert said:
Yeah, not convinced. Probably because I'm not a massive online multiplayer fan, I prefer quality single player experiences or local multiplayer.

I've been Nintendo plus another since SNES, but I'll probably pass if the entire console USP is based around playing people online. Especially considering Nintendo's track record with online experiences.
Click to expand...
Well, of course it won't be just online. A lot of Nintendo's main franchises (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, ect) will be completely single player. Also, Nintendo isn't handling their online anymore. They're outsourcing it to a qualified company.

Also, just listened to the Invisible Walls podcast that wsippel was talking about. They're pretty harsh on Sony. And yeah, Shane is definitely hinting at stuff. And Pachter said they'll announce something for the online.
 
P

Prez

Member
Shikamaru Ninja said:
- Grand Theft Auto 5 (Iwata is obsessed with this franchise)
- Call of Duty (Iwata is super obsessed with this franchise)
Click to expand...

Is it a fact that Iwata is obsessed with these games or is that part of the speculation?
 
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