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Jason Rubin somewhat unveils his plan to save THQ and keep mid-budget games alive

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Update:

Since I agree that this is a bit unclear, if you combine this with THQ's plans to have a significant part of their business f2p, the titles they list as examples of their future, and that they don't want to compete at $60 retail with most of their games, it seems they're going to be primarily pushing digital titles on consoles with one or two retail hits a year.

They view digital in the future though as potentially larger titles than the ~$15 XBLA type game you tend to cap out at now.

---

Jason Rubin has finally been more specific on his plan to save THQ and spoke more about their future in general.

There's a lot more at the link.

GamesIndustry.biz said:
Q: You've been in this business a long time. Why did you join THQ? The company does have a lot of difficulties at this time - restructuring and dealing with financial trouble and changing strategy... Did you come to them or did THQ call you?

Jason Rubin: Brian called me up and said, "Look, will you do me a favor and go around and take a look at everything we've got and come back and tell me what you think?" So I did a three-week tour around all of the teams except Metro, which is a third party company in the Ukraine - that was a little too far. But I did play Metro. I said, "You know what, Brian? You've got a reasonably sized slate. Maybe it's one title too big. A lot of them are good games, but most importantly, the teams are excellent and some of the stuff that hasn't been announced that people haven't seen is really good. I think you have a huge opportunity to make this better." And he said, "Well, where do you think the industry's going? Do you think these titles can compete with $120 million dollar super titles?"

So I said, "Well, you know, three, four years ago I would've said no. Even two years ago I would've said no." But looking at the industry in the future and what's happened in PC space, I think there's going to be a much wider variety of games in the future. I think you'll see things like Portal or World of Tanks or League of Legends or other ways of attracting people that don't require the snazziest graphics
, the most dollars per minute on screen, 600 person teams. Not that those titles won't do well. They'll do really well. And they'll get bigger and that's a race. But we don't have to necessarily play in that race. Maybe some of our titles will compete with some of the mid-sized triple-A titles - you know, a Naughty Dog title or something in the $50-$70 million dollar range. Some of our titles might be smaller than that. Whereas two years ago that might've been death, in two years I don't think that'll be a problem.

And I think we can do all right without it. Take a look at [South Park] Stick of Truth. A lot of people are talking about it, excited about it. That's not a blockbuster. Graphically, it's not going to compete with Call of Duty, but it's a really cool game. Metro's gotten a lot of nominations for Best in Show. Company of Heroes, the sequel to the highest rated RTS of all time. There are good things to do. [Saints Row developer] Volition, has an incredible amount of talent. I think that if they had been fostered in the same way that Naughty Dog was at Sony, given the tools that they needed to succeed, that there would be a much much more successful title there.

Not that Saints Row hasn't been successful, because it's a successful title. But they could have a blockbuster. So perhaps that team is making triple-A and some of the other teams are making a little bit smaller, and that's OK in the future, because there will be other ways in the future where you don't have to put it in a box at 60 bucks next to another $60 title that had five times the budget and four times the marketing. I think it's a great challenge. I think there's a huge potential. So that's why I came here.
GamesIndustry.biz said:
Q: So your goal then is to analyze the portfolio, see what is truly triple-A, what is more middle to double-A tier, and maybe put those into the Xbox Live/PSN download category?

Jason Rubin: Yeah, I'm not sure it's Xbox Live/PSN. I think that that's all going to morph. People tend to look at the industry as it is today and besides looking at hardware changes, which they know are coming, they never assume that there will be business model changes. And that may be fair because the business model hasn't changed in a long time in consoles. But I think if you look at what's happened and what's working outside of it - mobile, casual, PC - it's going to happen. And when it happens, I think it's good for the gamer because the gamer gets entertainment of a much broader variety, and I think it'll be good for THQ.
GamesIndustry.biz said:
Jason Rubin: I believe that the teams that we have are capable of making their own content; specifically Vigil is an incredible talent. I think we have to look at the products they're doing and see if we can make something that perhaps hits the market more directly, although Darksiders II is a fantastic game. But all of these teams I think have the ability to make their own stuff. Obviously, there's no replacing [South Park creators] Matt [Stone] and Trey [Parker]. They are who they are. And that's a perfect example of a case where they're worth every penny.
GamesIndustry.biz said:
Jason Rubin: You can only lose everything, but you can make an infinite amount of money. So there's a significant amount more upside than there is downside. You can't fail at everything all the time or you're done.
GamesIndustry.biz said:
Q: So you'd say the focus really is on triple-A console games? The iOS market, for example, you're ignoring that for now?

Jason Rubin: Correct. There will come a day where the tablets are extremely powerful and capable of running games. I think Company of Heroes, as an RTS with its control mechanism, is much easier to move onto a tablet than something that requires a dual stick and a significant amount of controls. It's just inherent. So could a Company of Heroes or something along those lines end up on a tablet soon? Absolutely. Do I think that there is going to be a Saints Row on a tablet? In the immediate future, no I don't. Eventually? Sure, if we can figure out the control issues that are obviously inherent in core gaming. Tilt and touch doesn't really work that well. There are a lot of opportunities.
Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-18-thqs-jason-rubin-everyones-out-there-beating-us-up
 

Busty

Banned
To be honest I'm not sure how to read this. Is Rubin trying to get THQ into decent shape so it can be sold as an ongoing concern or does he see THQ as a patient and rather than curing the illness he's just trying to keep them 'comfortable' until the inevitable?
 

UrbanRats

Member
there will be other ways in the future where you don't have to put it in a box at 60 bucks next to another $60 title that had five times the budget and four times the marketing.
I never understood why this hasn't happened already on a large scale.
 

Salsa

Member
mid-budget titles have no trouble selling on PC. The whole message is still pretty ambiguous but it sounds alright.
 
He hasn't. Still seems like he's mulling 'bout, thinking of a way to deal with this issue. Rest assured: the solution's not going to be pretty for everyone.
 
To be honest I'm not sure how to read this. Is Rubin trying to get THQ into decent shape so it can be sold as an ongoing concern or does he see THQ as a patient and rather than curing the illness he's just trying to keep them 'comfortable' until the inevitable?

He knows his shit, and he knows where THQs strengths are by the sounds of it - he's going to straight up save them.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Just take the multiplayer for Red Faction: Guerilla and give it a sequel and put it on PC/XBLA/PSN like BF1943.

Yes, I'm aware BF1943 never came out for PC.
 

rodvik

Member
Q: So you'd say the focus really is on triple-A console games? The iOS market, for example, you're ignoring that for now?

Jason Rubin: Correct. There will come a day where the tablets are extremely powerful and capable of running games. I think Company of Heroes, as an RTS with its control mechanism, is much easier to move onto a tablet than something that requires a dual stick and a significant amount of controls. It's just inherent. So could a Company of Heroes or something along those lines end up on a tablet soon? Absolutely.

Imho that day was about two years ago.

I really dont get what he is saying overall in the interview. Was he taken out of context? Seems self contradictory in what he is saying.

My copy paste failed on me. Here's the second half:

Do I think that there is going to be a Saints Row on a tablet? In the immediate future, no I don't. Eventually? Sure, if we can figure out the control issues that are obviously inherent in core gaming. Tilt and touch doesn't really work that well. There are a lot of opportunities.


Oh ok, thanks. Yeah that clarifys a bit. Makes more sense.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr

My copy paste failed on me. Here's the second half:

Do I think that there is going to be a Saints Row on a tablet? In the immediate future, no I don't. Eventually? Sure, if we can figure out the control issues that are obviously inherent in core gaming. Tilt and touch doesn't really work that well. There are a lot of opportunities.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
The HomeFront team, which is Crytek, they're in the middle of the game, so I won't be changing anything there for quite a long time, if ever.

i thought crytek was independent? and also that they weren't going to be making retail games anymore



but, this guy sounds like he knows what he's doing, and its probably what THQ needs to survive. Pretty good interview and good questions


his plan sounds like he wants to take advantage of what is happening in gaming outside of consoles and bring them into consoles and take advantage of that. there has actually not been that much of the "social casual free to play" stuff coming out en masse on consoles, so a couple of big games that take advantage of that whole spectrum may be pretty big.
 
Almost sounds to me like he wants to take their best games, run it through a focus group and tweak 'em till they appeal to the masses.

Saints Row 4 with Sims like crib building and customization, with some RPG elements throw in.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Almost sounds to me like he wants to take their best games, run it through a focus group and tweak 'em till they appeal to the masses.

Saints Row 4 with Sims like crib building and customization, with some RPG elements throw in.

I think you mean Saints Row 4 with cinematic levels, quick time events, and visceral cover based action
 

badgenome

Member
Almost sounds to me like he wants to take their best games, run it through a focus group and tweak 'em till they appeal to the masses.

Saints Row 4 with Sims like crib building and customization, with some RPG elements throw in.

SR: The Third already had RPG elements, and I'd be down with the Sims part. Sign me up!
 

Deadbeat

Banned
Two things THQ needs to do as far as Im concerned:

1. Last until Metro: Last Light comes out.
2. Dont fuck with Metro: Last Light development (ie dumb down).

These points could be applied to CoH 2 as well but im not into RTSes so /shrug.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Volition, has an incredible amount of talent. I think that if they had been fostered in the same way that Naughty Dog was at Sony, given the tools that they needed to succeed, that there would be a much much more successful title there.

Not that Saints Row hasn't been successful, because it's a successful title. But they could have a blockbuster.

Here we go with this shit again.

In what universe is four million copies not blockbuster status?

SR3 sales are roughly analogous to the number of Uncharted 2 sales, anyway.
 
As far as I'm concerned the old THQ died the minute Rubin took over. Mark my words, he will take the company into a shitty FTP strategy that will ultimately fail. THQ could have been in good shape had they not sank godless amounts of money into that Wii game and Homefront.
 
That interview made his strategy pretty clear, I'm confused at the confusion.

1. Don't fuck with games/teams that are working: Darksiders 2, CoH2, South Park, Metro

He mentions that Darksiders 2 doesn't quite hit the market, as in, it will never be a blockbuster like CoD. This is not hard to accept. This does not mean it won't be a success. He also clearly respects Volition, Vigil, Relic, and the Metro teams, and wants to give them projects, management, and mentoring to turn great teams into superstar teams. Basically what Sony did with ND and Uncharted.

2. Find productive things to do for teams that aren't quite A-level.

I'm not sure what other teams THQ has so I don't know what this entails, but he probably wants to build these teams confidence and skills with mid-level non-retail titles. It's a lot easier to improve a team that's making some kind of money.

3. Focus on successes, not failures.

He cares about how to make money with what he has, rather than trying to make everything AAA. That way the company can think of a mid-level title a successful mid-level title, not a failure of a AAA, with the concomitant marketing and production costs. I think this goes hand-in-hand with an emphasis on retail alternatives.

4. Stop wasting money on non-core stuff.

He seems like he's focused on the long-term, with his mentions of team development, developer respect, and fostering greatness. He's also just saying no to trendy things like iOS.
 

BD1

Banned
What people also need to be cognizant of is that THQ is barely breathing right now. Rubin's options are absolutely limited. The biggest factor in that being cash on hand. He has to figure out a strategy that fits into the balance sheet, even if it's not the most exciting and/or appealing to GAF.

Don't fuck with Saints Row, though.
 

iammeiam

Member
I'm having a really hard time understanding his plans for Saints Row at this point. It seems to be the kind of retail title they're chasing (successful without needing to be a mega-CoD-style deal), but the developer is essentially too good for the IP so he wants them doing other things... so who works on Saints Row? Or is the IP dead?
 

remnant

Banned
Here we go with this shit again.

In what universe is four million copies not blockbuster status?

SR3 sales are roughly analogous to the number of Uncharted 2 sales, anyway.
Compared to the tens of millions that Activision and Nintendo bring with one game?

Uncharted isn't a blockbuster. it has a quick turn around though and is very marketable.

I think Rubin is being very clear. People need to accept the fact that THQ isn't going to lose money by copying other successful formulas and adding a gimmick. Studios are going to change, hopefully for the better.
 

shaowebb

Member
I'm still scared for THQ.

Me too. F2P will help in my opinion to micro fund them and keep things going, but in all honesty they need a homerun to really start to climb out of this. Hopefully it can come in the form of smaller budget bigger profit titles. Their just going to have to really look at things. If I was them I would sell a few more licenses to try and make back some lost revenue to help implement the switch. They have a lot of them that are just sitting around like dead weight that won't do much for them profit-wise unless they simply sell them off.

Personally, I'd like them to sell WWE, but I doubt that will happen as it generally pulls in some profit (though a lot less than it used to). Its profitability is largely why they've wanted to try and milk it into other genres and series, but it just doesn't translate to other games than wrestling.

I think what they need most is to hire some writers to come up with something that has a LOT of character and good dialogue to make it catch on easier. Something with the kind of humor of a doublefine game might work and with satire as a key theme graphics are easily believable to be stylized and lower in quality than the AAA stuff you see people losing budget on. Their going to need some help here, but at least he mentions Naughty Dog so they may just see a lighter action game as a good idea right now.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Compared to the tens of millions that Activision and Nintendo bring with one game?

Uncharted isn't a blockbuster. it has a quick turn around though and is very marketable.

I think Rubin is being very clear. People need to accept the fact that THQ isn't going to lose money by copying other successful formulas and adding a gimmick. Studios are going to change, hopefully for the better.

What? That's failed dozens of times this generation, what are you even talking about?
 
That interview made his strategy pretty clear, I'm confused at the confusion.

1. Don't fuck with games/teams that are working: Darksiders 2, CoH2, South Park, Metro

He mentions that Darksiders 2 doesn't quite hit the market, as in, it will never be a blockbuster like CoD. This is not hard to accept. This does not mean it won't be a success. He also clearly respects Volition, Vigil, Relic, and the Metro teams, and wants to give them projects, management, and mentoring to turn great teams into superstar teams. Basically what Sony did with ND and Uncharted.

2. Find productive things to do for teams that aren't quite A-level.

I'm not sure what other teams THQ has so I don't know what this entails, but he probably wants to build these teams confidence and skills with mid-level non-retail titles. It's a lot easier to improve a team that's making some kind of money.

3. Focus on successes, not failures.

He cares about how to make money with what he has, rather than trying to make everything AAA. That way the company can think of a mid-level title a successful mid-level title, not a failure of a AAA, with the concomitant marketing and production costs. I think this goes hand-in-hand with an emphasis on retail alternatives.

4. Stop wasting money on non-core stuff.

He seems like he's focused on the long-term, with his mentions of team development, developer respect, and fostering greatness. He's also just saying no to trendy things like iOS.
I hope your interpretation is accurate.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
As far as I'm concerned the old THQ died the minute Rubin took over. Mark my words, he will take the company into a shitty FTP strategy that will ultimately fail. THQ could have been in good shape had they not sank godless amounts of money into that Wii game and Homefront.

If you're referring to uDraw, the Wii version sold fine. It didn't go to hell until they made versions for the PS3 and X360, which no one bought.
 

SDBurton

World's #1 Cosmonaut Enthusiast
For SR4:

Completely disregard SR3, as if it never happened.

Start off where SR2 ended and focus on having the MC go after Dex.

And for FFS don't kill off fan favorites.

Profit.
 

remnant

Banned
What? That's failed dozens of times this generation, what are you even talking about?
I mistyped. I meant to say they shouldn't do that, since that's all they kind of due right now, considering that's what DS,SR and HF are doing right now.
 
I mistyped. I meant to say they shouldn't do that, since that's all they kind of due right now, considering that's what DS,SR and HF are doing right now.

You really don't understand Darksiders or Saints Row at all, do you?

Or what a gimmick is, either.
 
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