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Level-5 and imageepoch should reconsider about "saving" JRPGs

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Just an opinion piece.

We know imageepoch keeps on saying that they'll be the saviour of JRPGs and they'll make a come-back but in the end they fail to deliver. See Toki to Towa (Time and Eternity), sure the graphics look interesting (2D sprites on a 3D plane) but the overall game was crap from what I've read (repetitive and dull) not to mention their art direction for the game is what turns away the older JRPG fans (heavily animu) and their other games aren't even better save for The Last Ranker (and maybe 7th Dragon).

Level-5 on the other hand has a great track record for having beautiful looking games and having stellar soundtracks (from what I've heard from Ni no Kuni), unfortunately that's where it ends. Their stories and gameplay aren't fun nor are they endearing and end up being mediocre in most fronts. Ni no Kuni was a visual masterpiece but unfortunately the direction of the game (partially voiced wtf) and the exploitable, slow, and repetitive battle system made it fall flat despite its graphical showpiece. Rogue Galaxy is another victim of L5's mediocre gameplay with great presentation. Sadly, their recent games seem to have been overshipped almost all the time according to Media Create.

We do know these two companies are pushing RPGs out the window a lot. The former promoting themselves as "JRPG" saviours and the latter as "high-budget, going back to old-school" kind of developer, but they aren't doing the JRPG genre a favor but instead making it unappealing (I don't know about Ni no Kuni but it seems to appeal to kids save for the difficulty). Heck at least Star Ocean 4 and Final Fantasy XIII had fun gameplay in my opinion compared to Ni no Kuni's.

Both of these companies have great potential for making visual presentations and probably the direction of the game but their gameplay and stories suffer greatly.

So do you think L5 and imageepoch should reconsider making JRPGs and go for another genre? Should they be outsourced for their quality work but not for their gameplay decisions? What do you think L5 and imageepoch should do to be considered "saviours"?

Side note: I don't hate Ni no Kuno. In fact I'm happy it's a throwback to the older JRPGs in terms of content and world mapping. If Ni no Kuni had a much much better gameplay and was fully voiced (the voice acting was good IMO), I'd probably be one of my favorite games this generation.
 

Aeana

Member
I've always maintained that Level-5 would be best as a contracted studio along the lines of Matrix, but Hino would never be down with that. Sadly. They're great at technical/art stuff, but game design and writing are just not their thing.
 

DJIzana

Member
Monolith Soft baby... BELIEVE!

I think Mistwalker could do amazing things if they went HD as well.

Level 5 is great too. Level 5, aside from anything Sega has put out on the PS3, is actually one of the main reasons I'm glad I haven't sold my PS3.
 
Fantasy Life has been quite excellent so far and people generally seem to dig Ni no Kuni. Level 5 isn't even close to Imageepoch's level right now, me thinks.

Tokitowa was one of the worst games I've played this gen. Possibly the worst.
 

squall23

Member
Level-5 on the other hand has a great track record for having beautiful looking games and having stellar soundtracks (from what I've heard from Ni no Kuni), unfortunately that's where it ends. Their stories and gameplay aren't fun nor are they endearing and end up being mediocre in most fronts.
Speak for yourself. Inazuma Eleven's gameplay is amazingly fun.
 

Takao

Banned
I don't think Hino envisioned Level-5 as a saviour of the genre. That stuff came from people calling them the new Square. We'll stop talking about them soon enough, as it's obvious they're only interested in making painfully simplistic kids games.
 

Kokonoe

Banned
Atlus is/was my 'savior' so to speak with Radiant Historia, such a marvel game.

I also don't think just because something is old that means it's inferior to something that's new, I honestly consider turn based battle systems to be much more entertaining than a lot of the hybrid stuff or new types of combat systems they try to implement in JRPGs these days.

Pokemon is still selling quite well and it has kept the exact same battling system since Gen I, but I do like it when there are more twists on the combat that improve what was already there like the lanes in Radiant Historia compared to just the enemy standing there. I do like both, though, but having a different taste of the same is nice too.
 

NeededSleep

Member
Level 5 is great, they always seem to amaze me, in game droughts they always seem to put out decent products to bide the time with!

What i would like to see is Inuzuma 11 come to NA. Such a fun game series. Now that the 3ds is region locked, I'm screwed out of enjoying the future of the series.

As for what i would like to see next out of Level 5? I would really like to see them put out is a turn based strat RPG on par with FFT or Tactics Orge.
 

Kimawolf

Member
I think they should continue. Both studios have some glimpses of greatness but they just lack a vision, a guidance. I think both would be great if they were under someone elses's direction.

I think they will begin to make games that really help put JRPGS back on the map, it just make be a few more crap games first.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Savior of JRPGs = Atlus

Had to fix that for you. Their classics are some of the best RPGs ever, and they've yet to make a bad one. (Not counting tripe like NINE.)

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way.


And in Imageepoch's defense, Fate/Extra was pretty good.

They're better than Idea Hacktory.
 

Yuterald

Member
I'm not really a Level-5 guy. I've been with them since their first game, Dark Cloud, but their stuff has only appealed to me on a surface level. I think their PS2 efforts blows away what they have done this generation, however. Ni-no-Kuni is a cute game, but it doesn't quite hit all the marks for me. Sure, Kuni looks good this generation because we haven't gotten too many stellar console RPGs. Anything's better than White Knight Chronicles, right? As far as Ni-No goes, I'm in the camp that thinks it looks/sounds good. The world map is pretty too. Combat/monster raising stuff leaves a lot to be desired and other games in the monster recruiting/taming genre do it MUCH better than this (see games like SMT: Nocturne). I think they have the right ideas and their heart is in the right place, but as some others have mentioned, they aren't quite the best at game design.

Also, I really don't want to say this because I know some people will take it the wrong way, but I feel like their games appeal to people who aren't necessarily into RPGs. I've been seeing/reading that a lot of non-RPG enthusiasts say that it's the greatest game ever and that it is a savior to RPGs, etc. and I completely disagree. Seems more like case of just not knowing any better and being blinded by its charm, visuals, and presentation. Just saying.

So, no, I don't think they are the "saviors" to JRPGs nor would I want them to be what other devs/people look to for inspiration. If they want to continue to make RPGs, I'll check 'em out, but I'm hardly ever impressed.
 

vareon

Member
Speak for yourself. Inazuma Eleven's gameplay is amazingly fun.

OP's examples are US releases. What he meant by "saving" JRPG might mean JRPGs back to having significant sales in US, I think? I've given up hope of Inazuma Eleven being released in the US :/
 

Gravijah

Member
I've always maintained that Level-5 would be best as a contracted studio along the lines of Matrix, but Hino would never be down with that. Sadly. They're great at technical/art stuff, but game design and writing are just not their thing.

But Level 5 stories are so silly and fun.

Nintendo in general are the savior of Japanese RPGs.

Well, Pokemon will keep the genre alive forever. Paper Mario is great. M&L could be on indefinite hiatus. Monolith games are too small.
 

hongcha

Member
I've given up on Level 5. Post DQVIII they've proven they can't make a JRPG with a good battle system. Fantasy Life's is crap, Ni no Kuni's (both DS and PS3 versions) are crap, etc.

Imageepoch, on the other hand, still has potential. While they've made some duds (Last Promise Story is atrocious, Last Ranker is mediocre, etc) they have made some really great games especially when collaborating with other companies. Criminal Girls is one of my favorite JRPGs ever (such an awesome battle system. I'd so love to have this battle system in another game!), and Sol Trigger and 7th Dragon 2020 were both great. Level 5 is better on the graphics and story/character development, but Imageepoch is miles ahead on the battle systems. If they could collaborate, we'd probably get some really good stuff.
 

Yuterald

Member
Nintendo in general are the savior of Japanese RPGs.

If you're still trying to catch up with DS's library, that is. I still believe if you want to play all the "real" RPGs this generation then it's all on the portables. The DS, PSP and soon to be 3DS and Vita are where it's at. The home consoles gets all the oddball, alternative shit, in my opinion.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I won't deny that my enjoyment of the genre has been lessened this generation by a fraction. I won't deny that it was an imageepoch game that helped bring me back to the genre along with a Tales game either. And I won't deny that my general apathy towards some RPGs this generation is the result of not getting the one RPG I wanted the most this generation.

But man, if anyone was the saviour of the Japanese RPG for me lately, it's probably Falcom. Sega's published a bunch of RPGs this gen I liked, and Namco's developed a few Tales games I've liked, but I like that Falcom at least sticks to their guns and (most of the time) tries to go with gameplay/game design first and characterization/narrative second (and even if they go with narrative primarily, it ends up being really interesting and draws the player into the the web they've spun across a handful of games).

It'd been a while since I got so drawn into an RPG that I had to get it done as soon as possible, so I'm kinda glad I was able to experience that sort of thing again.

Tokitowa was one of the worst games I've played this gen. Possibly the worst.
Please tell me you've written a review somewhere.

I just want to know how many obstacles I'll have to put up with if I ever choose to play this game.

but Imageepoch is miles ahead on the battle systems.
I actually agree with this based on some of the IE games I've played. Their battle systems are tons of fun to play around with in terms of stats, progression, (timing in some cases), etc.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
OP's examples are US releases. What he meant by "saving" JRPG might mean JRPGs back to having significant sales in US, I think? I've given up hope of Inazuma Eleven being released in the US :/

Saving means that they gain significant attention and are highly praised for being fun: see Xenoblade, Demon's Souls (not sure if this counts), and Persona 4.

I forgot Inazuma Eleven. I think that's another good one but unfortunately, it wasn't released worldwide.
 

faridmon

Member
If those two companies are the ''saviour'' of RPGs then, the genre is dead and buried beyond repair, but I don't think it is and those two companies should just focus on their survival rather than spouting such nonsense.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I won't deny that my enjoyment of the genre has been lessened this generation by a fraction. I won't deny that it was an imageepoch game that helped bring me back to the genre along with a Tales game either. And I won't deny that my general apathy towards some RPGs this generation is the result of not getting the one RPG I wanted the most this generation.

But man, if anyone was the saviour of the Japanese RPG for me lately, it's probably Falcom. Sega's published a bunch of RPGs this gen I liked, and Namco's developed a few Tales games I've liked, but I like that Falcom at least sticks to their guns and (most of the time) tries to go with gameplay/game design first and characterization/narrative second (and even if they go with narrative primarily, it ends up being really interesting and draws the player into the the web they've spun across a handful of games).

It'd been a while since I got so drawn into an RPG that I had to get it done as soon as possible, so I'm kinda glad I was able to experience that sort of thing again.


Please tell me you've written a review somewhere.

I just want to know how many obstacles I'll have to put up with if I ever choose to play this game.

Read this one:

http://www.japanator.com/import-review-tokitowa-27727.phtml

It's absolutely wretched apparently.
 
not to mention their art direction for the game is what turns away the older JRPG fans (heavily animu)
It does?

Old Final Fantasy:
FFVjobs.png

Final_Fantasy_V_Box_JAP.jpg


New Final Fantasy:
final-fantasy-xiii-3.jpg


Retro Final Fantasy:
5BDigik5D20FF9_7778.jpg


Secret of Mana:
Secretofmana.png


Chrono Trigger:
chrono_trigger.jpg


Dragon Quest:
DragonQuest.jpg


Grandia:
grandia_wallp.jpg


And let us not forget what the most successful modern jRPG is. Pokemon.
Pikachu.jpg
 

Gravijah

Member
Saving means that they gain significant attention and are highly praised for being fun: see Xenoblade, Demon's Souls (not sure if this counts), and Persona 4.

This is all relative. 2/3 of those are niche and one occupies the dying space between niche and large.

And let us not forget what the most successful modern jRPG is. Pokemon.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o214/Bec12344ever/Pikachu/Pikachu.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Pokemon isn't just the most successful modern JRPG, it's the most successful RPG series ever and with all of its spinoff the 2nd largest franchise in gaming.
 

Xelinis

Junior Member
Atlus, Monolith Soft, and Falcom are the saviors of JRPGs.

I was once very critical of Level-5, saying that their products were all glitz and no substance. I wasn't able to foresee the horrors that imageepoch would unleash upon the genre. Needless to say, I now look at Level-5 in a more positive light.
 

vocab

Member
JRPGS don't need saving, they need to actually come out and be available. Versus has been in development for 50 years, and a new megaten game seems like vapor ware at this point. There's a lot of other games that just haven't come out with no news on development, or are japan only.
 

Bladenic

Member
But Level 5 stories are so silly and fun.



Well, Pokemon will keep the genre alive forever. Paper Mario is great. M&L could be on indefinite hiatus. Monolith games are too small.

Paper Mario used to be great.

As for Level-5, lumping them with such shit as imageepoch is doing them a disservice, despite making some shit like Rogue Galaxy themselves. As much as I like Ni No Kuni, I would have no qualms with Level-5 sticking with handling the presentation side of things ala Dragon Quest 8.
 
After level 5's previous output (WKC is so bad) and the NnK demo I was sure that i'd hate the game but damn I love it.

If I could get more JRPGs like it I'd be so fucking happy.
 
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