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Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 03:09 PM)
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Title: BENCHMARK MEASUREMENT FOR LEGITIMATE DUPLICATION VALIDATION
Filed: 08/17/2011 Published: 02/21/2013

This patent application was filed in Aug. 2011 but was published a couple of days ago.

It talks about detection of pirated software by measuring load times (once or at regular intervals) and comparing the results with what is considered an acceptable threshold range.

If load times are not within this range, the software gets blocked.



Using total benchmark load time:

For example, if an authentic game title is distributed exclusively on BDs having a total benchmark load time of 45 seconds on a game console BD drive, the acceptable range of load times could be from 40 to 50 seconds. Thus, a total measured title load time of 4 seconds would be outside of the acceptable range of total load times for a legitimate media type.

Seek time:

In another example, if an authentic game title is distributed exclusively on flash drives having a total benchmark load time of 5 seconds, the acceptable range of load times could be from 4 to 6 seconds. However, an illegitimate game product embodied on a hard disk may also have a total measured title load time of 5 seconds, which would be within the acceptable range of total load times for a legitimate media type. In this instance, each segment of the benchmark load time can be compared to the corresponding segment of the title load time to differentiate between the media types, again using threshold ranges. For example, a benchmark seek time associated with the flash drive could be 150 milliseconds, with an acceptable seek time range of 130 milliseconds to 170 milliseconds. Thus, a measured title seek time of 10 ms associated with the hard disk drive would be outside of the acceptable range of seek times for a legitimate media type.

Throughput:

In another example, a benchmark throughput associated with loading the media product from a flash drive could be 30 megabytes per second, with an acceptable throughput range of 20 megabytes per second to 40 megabytes per second. Thus, a measured title throughput of 100 megabytes per second associated with loading the media on a hard disk drive would be outside of the acceptable range of throughput for a legitimate media type.


I don't know if it's already being used in any SONY (or other) products and/or has anything to do with the PS4.

Also I didn't find any older Sony patents (and applications) with the same subject so it's new to me.


mOck/lOck if old
Takao
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(02-23-2013, 03:10 PM)
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Wouldn't this be a bit difficult to monitor given Sony's putting all PS4 games on PSN?
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

Wouldn't this be a bit difficult to monitor given Sony's putting all PS4 games on PSN?

Not limited to physical media.

The media type can be any type of storage media, executable media, online media and/or streaming media capable of sourcing the media product, such as a CD, a DVD, a BD, a flash drive, a console-specific disc, a memory stick, an internal or external hard drive, an SD card, a remote server, and the like. The computing device can be one or more of any devices capable of executing the particular media type, such as televisions, CD players, DVD players, BD players, set-top boxes, game consoles, computers, and the like. Although described as being “inserted” into a computing device, it is understood that physical insertion of the media product is not necessary in the case of soft media types, and that selection of the media product on the computing device will perform a similar function.

Durante
A Deadly Premonition hit his Dark Soul like a bolt of Lightning: "I can make their games better."
(02-23-2013, 03:12 PM)
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This seems like a viable method for earlier consoles, but a bit outdated in this age of multiple legitimate distribution and storage channels.
vareon
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(02-23-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

Wouldn't this be a bit difficult to monitor given Sony's putting all PS4 games on PSN?

The machine would know if the game is downloaded from PSN or not, no?
Xanathus
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(02-23-2013, 03:12 PM)
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In other news custom firmware developers have added a new feature of specifying a variable delay while loading a game.
linkboy
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(02-23-2013, 03:12 PM)
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Even if they did implement this on the PS4, it would be

A) Patched out if the system were to get hacked.

B) Might have issues if a game on a BD disc is dumped and ran off of a hard drive. If that puts the load times in the window for the game's DD version (if it has one), it would be bypassed.
King_Moc
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(02-23-2013, 03:13 PM)
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I actually hope this one works. As long as it doesn't interfere with legitimately downloaded software.
GMM
Banned
(02-23-2013, 03:13 PM)
Not a good way to detect piracy at all, especially with physical media. Discs and drives degrade over time and can suffer from a wide range of issues that can cause longer loading times over time, or create loading spikes on various loads.
Beysus
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(02-23-2013, 03:16 PM)
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Piracy will always find a way.
lol51
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(02-23-2013, 03:17 PM)
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Both drive RPM and file fragmentation could all have an effect on loadtimes. For this tech to be used effectively you would need a proprietary SSD and I don't see that happening.
Gaz Pwnage
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(02-23-2013, 03:17 PM)
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This isn't going to work. As soon as the console is wide open, these messages will be spoofed and/or delays will be added on purpose to avoid detection.
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 03:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by GMM

Not a good way to detect piracy at all, especially with physical media. Discs and drives degrade over time and can suffer from a wide range of issues that can cause longer loading times over time, or create loading spikes on various loads.

Originally Posted by lol51

Both drive RPM and file fragmentation could all have an effect on loadtimes. For this tech to be used effectively you would need a proprietary SSD and I don't see that happening.

Agree.

I can't think of legally owning a title and not being able to play it because console/device thinks it's pirated.

Edit: Could be talking out of my a** here but couldn't fragmentation and/or other factors (drive life, etc) be taken into account when calculating this "threshold range"?

And if blocking isn't enough:

Although described and shown as the user being blocked, any number of additional or alternative actions may be taken against an unauthorized user if the title load time is not within an acceptable range and the product does not pass secondary validation. For example, the media product can be erased from the device, if the media type is editable. In another example, the device hardware can be “bricked”, or shut off and reconfigured to no longer function.

Last edited by Disorientator; 02-23-2013 at 03:31 PM.
SirIgbyCeaser
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(02-23-2013, 03:30 PM)
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If this is to be implemented... expect no more installing your own harddrives :P
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by SirIgbyCeaser

If this is to be implemented... expect no more installing your own harddrives :P

Scary thought but maybe a way for them to sell their own HDDs? (performance would be much more predictable)
LiquidMetal14
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(02-23-2013, 03:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Second

Piracy will always find a way.

I'm sure but companies are trying different things while not entirely making it hard on the consumer.
Metalmurphy
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(02-23-2013, 03:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

This seems like a viable method for earlier consoles, but a bit outdated in this age of multiple legitimate distribution and storage channels.

Pretty much.


I mean, assuming the PS4 lets you upgrade the HDD on your own, that away will make this method useless.
ComputerMKII
Banned
(02-23-2013, 03:55 PM)
Making your games more likely not to run, for any reason, isn't a good thing. Legit consumers will get screwed while pirates will still win.
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 03:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Computer

As demonstrated multiple times, making your games more likely not to run, for any reason, isn't a good thing. Legit consumers will get screwed while pirates will still win.

fixed
Trogdor1123
Member
(02-23-2013, 04:02 PM)

Originally Posted by SirIgbyCeaser

If this is to be implemented... expect no more installing your own harddrives :P

Thats what i was thinking too, i was going to drop a 512 ssd into my ps4 day 1. Looks like i wont be able to.
Oersted
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(02-23-2013, 04:03 PM)
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In another example, if an authentic game title is distributed exclusively on flash drives having a total benchmark load time of 5 seconds, the acceptable range of load times could be from 4 to 6 seconds.

Little bit worrying...
Megadragon15
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(02-23-2013, 04:03 PM)
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What happens if a big piece of dust or other foreign particle gets on the disc read side?
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Megadragon15

What happens if a big piece of dust or other foreign particle gets on the disc read side?

Valid concern.

Could the "counter" be "paused" while data isn't readable and be "resumed" after normal reading operation...well, resumes? (<- no idea what I'm talking about - possible?)
Last edited by Disorientator; 02-23-2013 at 04:27 PM.
Woorloog
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(02-23-2013, 04:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Megadragon15

What happens if a big piece of dust or other foreign particle gets on the disc read side?

Legit consumer gets screwed, pirates work around the system anyway.
KingofGourds
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(02-23-2013, 04:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Megadragon15

What happens if a big piece of dust or other foreign particle gets on the disc read side?

What I was thinking.

I'm not sure I would could trust the efficiency of a system like this.
tokkun
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(02-23-2013, 04:26 PM)
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It was rumored that Microsoft is already using technology like this on the 360.
JWong
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(02-23-2013, 04:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Second

Piracy will always find a way.

They didn't completely find a way for PS3.

No one but the most desperate will screw themselves out of PSN and any games only playable after certain firmwares.
thesuperfunk
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(02-23-2013, 04:30 PM)
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What would happen if this was implemented and a PS4 user decided to upgrade their hard disk to something much quicker like a SSD?
suavelicious
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(02-23-2013, 04:31 PM)
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this

Originally Posted by Xanathus

In other news custom firmware developers have added a new feature of specifying a variable delay while loading a game.

and this

Originally Posted by Woorloog

Legit consumer gets screwed, pirates work around the system anyway.

sangreal
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(02-23-2013, 04:31 PM)
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I thought 360 does or did this
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 04:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by tokkun

It was rumored that Microsoft is already using technology like this on the 360.

Originally Posted by sangreal

I thought 360 does or did this

Cool. Didn't know, thanks.

Edit: So how did MS handle the different specs of third-party HDDs and/or the other issues mentioned above?
Last edited by Disorientator; 02-23-2013 at 04:35 PM.
tokkun
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(02-23-2013, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Disorientator

Cool. Didn't know, thanks.

Edit: So how did MS handle the different specs of third-party HDDs and/or the other issues mentioned above?

As far as I'm aware, this is only hearsay that came out after a lot of pirates got banned around one of those Halo or Gears leaks, so I have no idea if it is true.

Anyway, the rumor was that they looked at the jitter from the optical drive to determine if a disc was factory pressed or consumer-writable media. The idea being that DVDRs were either a different thickness or differently balanced, causing them to wobble more than a pressed XBOX 360 disc would when spun in the optical drive.

How did they handle different HDDs? Well Microsoft doesn't let you use third-party HDDs, but presumably they only looked at loads that took place from the optical drive in any case.

How did they handle stratches/dirt on the disc? I don't know. Maybe that doesn't change the jitter of the disc enough? Or maybe they can detect scratches because of disc read errors?

At the time there were certainly people who claimed their consoles had been banned unjustly, but who knows if they were telling the truth.
Disorientator
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(02-23-2013, 05:55 PM)
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Interesting.

Thanks for the info.

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