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angular graphics
Banned
(06-27-2013, 09:46 AM)
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http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...postcount=6666

Originally Posted by Valve's Alfred

No, hammer is only available on windows and we have no plans at this time to change that.

It is a MFC app, which is a windows only UI tech, so a port would be difficult. Future engines have been designed with cross platform support in the toolchain from the start.

This confirms a couple of things:

1) They will continue releasing their tools/code of Source 2 games and support modding, like they did with Source 1's.
2) One will be able to create mods using his Mac OS/Linux partition, instead of having to install and use Windows.
nubbe
Member
(06-27-2013, 09:50 AM)
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Windows compatible, Linux optimized.
PapaJustify
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(06-27-2013, 09:51 AM)
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Shocking news.
fabricated backlash
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(06-27-2013, 09:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

http://forums.steampowered.com/forum...postcount=6666



This confirms a couple of things:

1) They will continue releasing their tools/code of Source 2 games and support modding, like they did with Source 1's.
2) One will be able to create mods using his Mac OS/Linux partition, instead of having to install and use Windows.

Others act as if the community is too mentally challenged to use their engine, while Valve is actively considering modding to ad value to what they're doing.

I'm looking forward to what Source 2 will bring to the table.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(06-27-2013, 09:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by PapaJustify

Shocking news.

I know, right? Valve is working on something!
Atraveller
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(06-27-2013, 09:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by JaseC

I know, right? Valve is working on something!

Half Life 3 confirmed!
zoku88
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(06-27-2013, 09:53 AM)
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Is hammer some sort of IDE or something?
Alien Bob
taken advantage of my ass
(06-27-2013, 09:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by JaseC

I know, right? Valve is working on something!

To be fair, it did seem like that one single thing they were working on is Dota 2
angular graphics
Banned
(06-27-2013, 09:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by zoku88

Is hammer some sort of IDE or something?

It's their level editor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Hammer_Editor
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Member
(06-27-2013, 09:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by fabricated backlash

I'm looking forward to what Source 2 will bring to the table.

I'm *incredibly* curious about it because quite frankly at this point, after years of Source-based stuff, I have absolutely no idea of what Valve is capable of from a "technological" standpoint.

Will they be able to match or even pass some of the most impressive titles/engines around?
Last edited by TucoBenedictoPacifico; 06-27-2013 at 10:36 AM.
Nome
Member
(06-27-2013, 09:59 AM)
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Wonder if they'll release it for free to attract developers for Steambox.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(06-27-2013, 10:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alien Bob

To be fair, it did seem like that one single thing they were working on is Dota 2

Personally, I've always assumed that Episode Three/Half-Life 3 has been in development to some extent since the former was announced a little over 7 years ago. Additionally, I prefer to believe that Doug Church has been leading his own team since joining Valve back in March 2011. And, of course, there's the recent Left 4 Dead 3 bug reports.
angular graphics
Banned
(06-27-2013, 10:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by JaseC

Personally, I've always assumed that Episode Three/Half-Life 3 has been in development to some extent since the former was announced a little over 7 years ago. Additionally, I prefer to believe that Doug Church has been leading his own team since joining Valve back in March 2011. And, of course, there's the recent Left 4 Dead 3 bug reports.

And what about Clint Hocking? :P
Nome
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(06-27-2013, 10:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Alien Bob

To be fair, it did seem like that one single thing they were working on is Dota 2

As with all studios with multiple projects (or even a single large scale project), the vast majority of people are generally working on unannounced things.

Given Dota 2's output, I'd be surprised if they had more than two dozen in-house employees on it at this point.
Bishop89
Banned
(06-27-2013, 10:02 AM)
This is the first piece of info that I have read that valve even acknowledges source 2's existance.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(06-27-2013, 10:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

And what about Clint Hocking? :P

His sole job is to incorporate Far Cry 2's fire propagation tech into Source 2. :p

Originally Posted by Bishop89

This is the first piece of info that I have read that valve even acknowledges source 2's existance.

Gabe confirmed Source 2's development late last year.
Alien Bob
taken advantage of my ass
(06-27-2013, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nome


Given Dota 2's output, I'd be surprised if they had more than two dozen in-house employees on it at this point.

Maybe not working, but playing?
KKRT00
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(06-27-2013, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

Will they able to match or even pass some of the most impressive titles/engines around?

Nope, its just too hard to pass something already proven that is getting new features every year. Its like trying to make more content in new MMO, compared to one that is few years already on the market.
angular graphics
Banned
(06-27-2013, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bishop89

This is the first piece of info that I have read that valve even acknowledges source 2's existance.

1)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ng-on-source-2

2)
kutthoat5150
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(06-27-2013, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bishop89

This is the first piece of info that I have read that valve even acknowledges source 2's existance.

he mentioned a new engine being developed to a group tour a while ago that was recorded, but I think this is the first time they publicly said anything about it
Lingitiz
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(06-27-2013, 10:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

I'm *incredibly* curious about it because quite frankly at this point, after years of Source-based stuff, I have absolutely no idea of what Valve is capable of from a "technological" standpoint.

Will they able to match or even pass some of the most impressive titles/engines around?

I'm wondering this as well. Considering the age of Source, its actually lasted quite long. More than anything though, there's no engine that plays as smoothly and responsively as that engine. Hopefully Source 2 keeps that intact.
Nome
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(06-27-2013, 10:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lingitiz

I'm wondering this as well. Considering the age of Source, its actually lasted quite long. More than anything though, there's no engine that plays as smoothly and responsively as that engine. Hopefully Source 2 keeps that intact.

Yeah, Source is still the only FPS engine that doesn't give me motion sickness. Except Portal.
StoppedInTracks
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(06-27-2013, 10:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lingitiz

I'm wondering this as well. Considering the age of Source, its actually lasted quite long. More than anything though, there's no engine that plays as smoothly and responsively as that engine. Hopefully Source 2 keeps that intact.

AND it will be used in probably the best selling next-gen game (TITANFALL) next year.

AND if TITANFALL is successful then you can bet EA/ Respawn will keep on using it for next games in the series.

Pretty good for a soon to be 10 year old engine, no? Almost as reusable as Quake 3's (which is Quake 1's) engine.
fabricated backlash
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(06-27-2013, 10:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

I'm *incredibly* curious about it because quite frankly at this point, after years of Source-based stuff, I have absolutely no idea of what Valve is capable of from a "technological" standpoint.

Will they able to match or even pass some of the most impressive titles/engines around?

I honestly expect Source2 to be another example of Valves philosophy to create an engine that is actually useful as a tool and workbench, rather than compiling a list of features that looks good on a presentation but ultimately boil down to visuals only.

With that I mean: High compatibility and scalability. Technology that makes sense and an implementation that allows the highest level of flexibility to the highest range of businesses and communities.

Tech isn't just shaders, and judging by how extensively Source has been upgraded since it's debut I'd expect Source 2 to be a similar path foward.
k_trout
Banned
(06-27-2013, 10:45 AM)
wait a minute
source 2?
and here was me believing in the - eternal source engine with continual updates
Grayman
Member
(06-27-2013, 10:48 AM)

Originally Posted by Lingitiz

I'm wondering this as well. Considering the age of Source, its actually lasted quite long. More than anything though, there's no engine that plays as smoothly and responsively as that engine. Hopefully Source 2 keeps that intact.

I think Quake 3 running through the CQ3.exe source port and in CPMA mod is the smoothest I have felt a game. Source is very good though and a league above most things coming out.
KKRT00
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(06-27-2013, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by fabricated backlash

I honestly expect Source2 to be another example of Valves philosophy to create an engine that is actually useful as a tool and workbench, rather than compiling a list of features that looks good on a presentation but ultimately boil down to visuals only.

With that I mean: High compatibility and scalability. Technology that makes sense and an implementation that allows the highest level of flexibility to the highest range of businesses and communities.

Tech isn't just shaders, and judging by how extensively Source has been upgraded since it's debut I'd expect Source 2 to be a similar path foward.

I think You need research what CryEngine 3, Frostbite 3 and Unreal Engine 4 are capable of. Its not pure visuals, its much, much more than that.
Last edited by KKRT00; 06-27-2013 at 10:50 AM.
Nibel
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(06-27-2013, 10:49 AM)
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I want to see it dammit

Source engine games have such a unique, realistic look - I wonder how Source 2 games are going to look like
TucoBenedictoPacifico
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(06-27-2013, 10:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

Nope, its just too hard to pass something already proven that is getting new features every year. Its like trying to make more content in new MMO, compared to one that is few years already on the market.

I'm not sure how your answer is related to my question.
Source 2 being a completely new engine instead of an incremental update is not an "IF", it's a well known fact.
What I was wondering about is if this new engine will be able to compete on even ground with the big players around today.

Originally Posted by Nibel

Source engine games have such a unique, realistic look - I wonder how Source 2 games are going to look like

It's not much about "realism", as it is about a very clean image quality output in render and great responsiveness.
robin2
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(06-27-2013, 10:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by JaseC

I prefer to believe that Doug Church has been leading his own team since joining Valve back in March 2011.

I think I heard he already left.. maybe I'm mistaking.
Well seems I was wrong.
Last edited by robin2; 06-27-2013 at 11:01 AM.
TucoBenedictoPacifico
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(06-27-2013, 10:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by robin2

I think I heard he already left.. maybe I'm mistaking.

That's new to me. When and where you heard about it?
FrozenCell
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(06-27-2013, 10:54 AM)
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best on linux
Hylian7
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(06-27-2013, 10:56 AM)
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Isn't this the first time they have actually sort of confirmed Source 2 though? Even though they didn't mention it explicitly.
fabricated backlash
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(06-27-2013, 10:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

I think You need research what CryEngine 3, Frostbite 3 and Unreal Engine 4 are capable of. Its not pure visuals, its much, much more than that.

Of course they are, but most of the time, when people talk tech, they merely mean flashier graphics. I am well aware that all new engines are aimed at optimizing workflow and including as many platforms as possible, but I'd expect Source 2 to actually go the extra mile when it comes to mod support, scalability and reliability.

What made Source1 so insanely impressive back then wasn't just how much better characters and textures could look, but how the tech behind the engine actually improved on how games could be designed. While trivial today, the physics implementation back then was a game changer. Literally.

With games like Crysis or even BF3/4 you almost feel like the engine itself is the bigger star than the games itself.
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(06-27-2013, 10:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by robin2

I think I heard he already left.. maybe I'm mistaking.

Sure you're not thinking of the false alarm earlier in the year regarding Doug Lombardi's supposed departure?

Edit: Here's the GAF thread.
robin2
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(06-27-2013, 10:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

That's new to me. When and where you heard about it?

On this forum :P
Well I did a quick search on google and I didn't find anything. I'd say I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by JaseC

Sure you're not thinking of the false alarm earlier in the year regarding Doug Lombardi's supposed departure?

Yeah maybe I got confused with that.
angular graphics
Banned
(06-27-2013, 10:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by robin2

On this forum :P
Well I did a quick search on google and I didn't find anything. I'd say I'm wrong.

Yeah maybe I got confused with that.

I think I first posted that rumor here. But he is still there.
StuBurns
Banned
(06-27-2013, 11:00 AM)
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I know people think this means HL3 is on consoles, and I do too, and it will be, but it's a pretty interesting indication they're perhaps pushing Source as a viable alternative to UE4/CE3. I think the most interesting news out of E3 was actually TitanFall using Source. Third parties have used it before, of course, but nothing nearly as high profile as TitanFall.
Kazuma Kiryu
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(06-27-2013, 11:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by StoppedInTracks

AND it will be used in probably the best selling next-gen game (TITANFALL) next year.

AND if TITANFALL is successful then you can bet EA/ Respawn will keep on using it for next games in the series.

Pretty good for a soon to be 10 year old engine, no? Almost as reusable as Quake 3's (which is Quake 1's) engine.

isn't it a little too soon to be claiming that titanfall will be the best selling next-gen game in 2014? lol
k_trout
Banned
(06-27-2013, 11:05 AM)

Originally Posted by Kazuma Kiryu

isn't it a little too soon to be claiming that titanfall will be the best selling next-gen game in 2014? lol

the people i know who play COD have never heard of respawn entertainment
its the old film directors situation
some people care who made the movie others have no clue and no concern
i would imagine COD will be biggest game of 2014
KKRT00
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(06-27-2013, 11:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

I'm not sure how your answer is related to my question.
Source 2 being a completely new engine instead of an incremental update is not an "IF", it's a well known fact.
What I was wondering about is if this new engine will be able to compete on even ground with the big players around today.

Yeah, thats what i meant. Source 2 will be good/decent engine, but it wont be as good as top tier engines, because they are few years ahead in development with actual games being coded into them.

Originally Posted by fabricated backlash

Of course they are, but most of the time, when people talk tech, they merely mean flashier graphics. I am well aware that all new engines are aimed at optimizing workflow and including as many platforms as possible, but I'd expect Source 2 to actually go the extra mile when it comes to mod support, scalability and reliability.

What made Source1 so insanely impressive back then wasn't just how much better characters and textures could look, but how the tech behind the engine actually improved on how games could be designed. While trivial today, the physics implementation back then was a game changer. Literally.

With games like Crysis or even BF3/4 you almost feel like the engine itself is the bigger star than the games itself.

Ok, lets me breakdown some features in those engines.

CryEngine 3 was first engine that was real-time cross compatible, so if You edit something on PC, You edit it automatically on PS3 and Xbox 360 versions. CryEngine was also first fully dynamic, so You edit it in real-time and You can jump to environment with one button press [Frostbite and UE 4 supports this now too].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-vKJ5-6KM
Of course all physics simulations, all AI path-finding features etc are crossplatform as well and real-time. And scales down to tablets.

Frostbite 3
Is developed by multiple team that specialize in different genres, like RTS, RPGs, Racing games and FPS. Its fully dynamic with server sides simulations and tablet integration. It has very good destruction systems in place

Unreal Engine 4
Of course its crossplatform, fully deferred and next-gen enabled, but it also has one killer feature. New UMA and scripting environment that allows for people without any programming knowledge make games. You can also recompile code in real time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOvfn...ailpage#t=351s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IReehyN6iCc
Last edited by KKRT00; 06-27-2013 at 11:25 AM.
fabricated backlash
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(06-27-2013, 11:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by KKRT00

Ok, lets me breakdown some features in those engines.

CryEngine 3 was first engine that was real-time cross compatible, so if You edit something on PC, You edit it automatically on PS3 and Xbox 360 versions. CryEngine was also first fully dynamic, so You edit it in real-time and You can jump to environment with one button press [Frostbite and UE 4 supports this now too].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y-vKJ5-6KM
Of course all physics simulations, all AI path-finding features etc are crossplatform as well and real-time. And scales up to tablets.

Frostbite 3
Is developed by multiple team that specialize in different genres, like RTS, RPGs, Racing games and FPS. Its fully dynamic with server sides simulations and tablet integration. It has very good destruction systems in place

Unreal Engine 4
Of course its crossplatform, fully deferred and next-gen enabled, but it also has one killer feature. New UMA and scripting environment that allows for people without any programming knowledge make games. You can also recompile code in real time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOvfn...ailpage#t=351s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IReehyN6iCc

Yes, like I said, workflow optimization and increasing range of business viability. Which are important improvements, but I really expect Source 2 to go a lot further with better mod support and a lot more future proofing. With the possible exception of UE4 which will probably aim at a similar life cycle.
KKRT00
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(06-27-2013, 11:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by fabricated backlash

Yes, like I said, workflow optimization and increasing range of business viability. Which are important improvements, but I really expect Source 2 to go a lot further with better mod support and a lot more future proofing. With the possible exception of UE4 which will probably aim at a similar life cycle.

What do You even mean by better mod support? Or future proofing?

You cant have better mod support than allowing to use freeSDK like CryEngine 3 or UE 4 do. Having actual SDK is the best mod support implementation You can provide.
Last edited by KKRT00; 06-27-2013 at 11:31 AM.
FACE
I'M STILL CASTILLE
(06-27-2013, 11:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

And what about Clint Hocking? :P

Working with Doug in a new Source 2-based immersive sim, obviously.
Rivyn
"There is absolutely no way this should be reviewed that low despite it just being an opinion."
(06-27-2013, 11:56 AM)
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Excuse my ignorance if this has already been answered but is the Source 2 an entirely new engine or are they using the existing Source engine and building upon its fundamentals?

I know that I heard them saying after completing Half-Life 2 that they will never create a new engine ever again because of the amount of work that needed to be put into it.

They instead wanted to keep updating the Source (like they did with Episode 1 and Episode 2), or ultimately buy an engine.
angular graphics
Banned
(06-27-2013, 12:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rivyn

Excuse my ignorance if this has already been answered but is the Source 2 an entirely new engine or are they using the existing Source engine and building upon its fundamentals?

I know that I heard them saying after completing Half-Life 2 that they will never create a new engine ever again because of the amount of work that needed to be put into it.

They instead wanted to keep updating the Source (like they did with Episode 1 and Episode 2), or ultimately buy an engine.

I don't think they ever said that.

All we know is:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ng-on-source-2

Then, “Is it going to be more than just an extension to Source? Is it an entirely new engine?”

Newell: “Yeah!”

Prophet Steve
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(06-27-2013, 12:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rivyn

Excuse my ignorance if this has already been answered but is the Source 2 an entirely new engine or are they using the existing Source engine and building upon its fundamentals?

I know that I heard them saying after completing Half-Life 2 that they will never create a new engine ever again because of the amount of work that needed to be put into it.

They instead wanted to keep updating the Source (like they did with Episode 1 and Episode 2), or ultimately buy an engine.

I don't think something like that has been confirmed by Valve, but I assume it will build on some fundamentals if they are still relevant. I doubt it will feel like just an update though, and when they said it Valve was not nearly as successful as it is now.
Dmented
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(06-27-2013, 12:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by angular graphics

I don't think they ever said that.

All we know is:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ng-on-source-2

I still don't think it's a new engine in the terms of 100% built from scratch. But I do think Source 2 will be quite a large update. Larger than say from HL2 to CS:GO in a single update instead of revisions over time.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
(06-27-2013, 12:12 PM)
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This engine better be killer, it's the last one we'll see from Valve


I hope I'm not too late
JaseC
gave away the keys to the kingdom.
(06-27-2013, 12:15 PM)
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Valve didn't rule out a new engine, but instead just said that it prefers updating Source to building a new one:

Originally Posted by Chet Faliszek

That’s just the way we work with that engine, we’ve just update it not just replace it, and some point we may say there’s Source 2 or whatever, but really for us there’s been a pretty easy way to keep it and understanding the tools. When you replace an engine you’re replacing the tools and the way that people work, there’s an expense in man hours and people learning and people getting up on it right.

----------

Originally Posted by Dmented

I still don't think it's a new engine in the terms of 100% built from scratch. But I do think Source 2 will be quite a large update. Larger than say from HL2 to CS:GO in a single update instead of revisions over time.

Neither was Source, technically. It'll be a new engine in much the same way, though, insofar that the tools are new and the underlying components of the engine will have be rewritten. Very few engines are "new" in the sense that they begun life as a blank page.
Last edited by JaseC; 06-27-2013 at 12:18 PM.

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