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Index's (Atlus) creditors in the entertainment industry listed

D

duckroll

Member
Original Japanese source: http://japanimate.com/Entry/3048

Translated source: http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/07...ot-of-people-including-kadokawa-and-nintendo/

Important note: I need to preface the list with an explanation that these creditors are only those who are in the entertainment industry. That would include game companies, publishers, anime companies, broadcasters, etc. This is NOT the total sum of Index's debt, far from it. Their total debt is at about 245 million dollars, and what they owe all these companies combined might not even total 2 million. So these are NOT their main creditors, and the only newsworthy nature of this list is a curiosity to see which companies in the entertainment business are owed money and how much. Nothing more.

So here's the list, in thousands of yen (1000yen is about 10 bucks give or take):

Production IG (44,100)
ASCII Media Works (31,521)
Aquaplus (24,120)
STUDIO MAUSU (17,314)
Nintendo (13,599)
Pony Canyon (12,373)
Shueisha (11,395)
Enterbrain (6,166)
Fuji Television Network (5,525)
M-ON! Entertainment (5,040)
JASRAC (3,528)
GREE (2,506)
SEGA (2,454)
Movic (2,412)
YOMIKO (1,890)
Aniplex (1,862)
WiZ (1,737)
Tomy (1,370)
T.O Entertainment (1,260)
TV Asahi (1,218)
Taito (1,113)
Gakken Publishing (1,071)
Tatsumi Publishing (1,050)
 
A

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
duckroll said:
Important note: I need to preface the list with an explanation that these creditors are only those who are in the entertainment industry. That would include game companies, publishers, anime companies, broadcasters, etc. This is NOT the total sum of Index's debt, far from it. Their total debt is at about 245 million dollars, and what they owe all these companies combined might not even total 2 million. So these are NOT their main creditors, and the only newsworthy nature of this list is a curiosity to see which companies in the entertainment business are owed money and how much. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

so, bascially we should look at the list just as a curiosity, without any actual impact on their financial businesses, right?
 
2

2San

Member
Aostia said:
so, bascially we should look at the list just as a curiosity, without any actual impact on their financial businesses, right?
Click to expand...
Yeah, just check the amounts. I think project IG can survive a 0,5 million dollars hit.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Aostia said:
so, bascially we should look at the list just as a curiosity, without any actual impact on their financial businesses, right?
Click to expand...

Well if they can't pay anyone back, it's going to have an impact on their business because people won't do business with you if you don't pay and you still owe them money. But in the larger scheme of things, it means that none of these creditors really have an impact on the larger restructuring process because they're totally unsubstantial.

It's interesting to see who they owe money to and what the costs might be associated to though. They owe Production IG almost 450k for example, but I can't really think of any recent Index animation project or game which IG was involved in.
 
A

Abriael

Banned
duckroll said:
Important note: I need to preface the list with an explanation that these creditors are only those who are in the entertainment industry. That would include game companies, publishers, anime companies, broadcasters, etc. This is NOT the total sum of Index's debt, far from it. Their total debt is at about 245 million dollars, and what they owe all these companies combined might not even total 2 million. So these are NOT their main creditors, and the only newsworthy nature of this list is a curiosity to see which companies in the entertainment business are owed money and how much. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

Thanks for noticing that. I'm actually the one that wrote the article, and I missed that part in the mess of translating all those brand names :D

I edited the article to reflect it.
 
B

BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO

Junior Member
duckroll said:
Well if they can't pay anyone back, it's going to have an impact on their business because people won't do business with you if you don't pay and you still owe them money. But in the larger scheme of things, it means that none of these creditors really have an impact on the larger restructuring process because they're totally unsubstantial.

It's interesting to see who they owe money to and what the costs might be associated to though. They owe Production IG almost 450k for example, but I can't really think of any recent Index animation project or game which IG was involved in.
Click to expand...
So they owe 245 million dollars in US dollars?
 
D

duckroll

Member
Zaventem said:
Those number's aren't really a lot if 1k yen is 10 bucks. I expected more.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, the amount of debt they have is just too large for it to be "Atlus owes other game companies money". We know that their games are profitable, so they certainly seem to pay (most of) their bills on time, at least as long as the charade that the overall company is profitable was being carried out. It's likely that most of their debts are related to investments and loans - so the creditors would be financial institutions.
 
A

Abriael

Banned
Zaventem said:
Those number's aren't really a lot if 1k yen is 10 bucks. I expected more.
Click to expand...

Atlus was actually one of the healtiest parts of Index's business, and from what they said it was profitable, so the majority of the debt probably comes from other areas of Index's network and aren't related to the entertainment industry.
 
C

Coxy

Member
duckroll said:
It's interesting to see who they owe money to and what the costs might be associated to though. They owe Production IG almost 450k for example, but I can't really think of any recent Index animation project or game which IG was involved in.
Click to expand...

guess it could be something in development not announced yet?
$450k is probably about enough to do all the cutscenes for a game or a couple of ova eps by my estimation?
 
W

wrowa

Member
9thwonder said:
SMTxFE
Click to expand...

Not sure why they would owe money to Nintendo for that one. One would expect that Nintendo pays their developers money and as far as we know Atlus's games seem still to be in development.

Also, they owe money to Enterbrain? They didn't pay the money for the Famitsu scores, I see.
 
A

Abriael

Banned
wrowa said:
Not sure why they would owe money to Nintendo for that one. One would expect that Nintendo pays their developers money and as far as we know Atlus's games seem still to be in development.
Click to expand...

That's most probably unpaid royalties (You pay royalties to the first party when you publish something on a console).

Also, they owe money to Enterbrain? They didn't pay the money for the Famitsu scores, I see.
Click to expand...

It's probably money for the ads on magazines and website.
 
D

duckroll

Member
wrowa said:
Not sure why they would owe money to Nintendo for that one. One would expect that Nintendo pays their developers money and as far as we know Atlus's games seem still to be in development.

Also, they owe money to Enterbrain? They didn't pay the money for the Famitsu scores, I see.
Click to expand...

The most likely cost related to Nintendo would probably be licensing and cart production. Their recent games have all been 3DS titles, and there would be a licensing and manufacturing cost involved. It's only 135k, so it's probably a small amount which was rather recent, and they just haven't paid it out yet. They'll be listed since the company has filed for bankruptcy and hence cannot pay out anything else until this matter is settled.
 
D

DaBoss

Member
So all of these amounts are pretty small individually in the grand scheme of things, but totaling it up leads to that 245 million dollars? That is pretty insane. What the hell was Index doing?

So who are the creditors they need to pay the most and what industry are they in?
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
DaBoss said:
So all of these amounts are pretty small individually in the grand scheme of things, but totaling it up leads to that 245 million dollars? That is pretty insane. What the hell was Index doing?

So who are the creditors they need to pay the most and what industry are they in?
Click to expand...

Smoking crack and going to hostess clubs. Living the Yakuza life.
 
D

duckroll

Member
DaBoss said:
So all of these amounts are pretty small individually in the grand scheme of things, but totaling it up leads to that 245 million dollars? That is pretty insane. What the hell was Index doing?

So who are the creditors they need to pay the most and what industry are they in?
Click to expand...

I would recommend you read the OP again.
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Jac_Solar said:
How does a company owe several other companies like 100$ and similar amounts?
Click to expand...

you've got the amounts wrong. each unit in this context is 1000 yen which is about 10 dollars, so the debts listed range between tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars per company.
 
D

DaBoss

Member
Shouta said:
Smoking crack and going to hostess clubs. Living the Yakuza life.
Click to expand...

:lol

duckroll said:
I would recommend you read the OP again.
Click to expand...

Oops, looks like I worded my post terribly. I know that the list in the OP is not even close to 245 million.

What I wanted to know is who the main creditors are or an idea of which industry they are in, but I'm guessing that is a dumb question since it doesn't seem like that information is available.
 
J

Jac_Solar

Member
Ah, nevermind. Gumby explained it.

So, how come the units are like that? Is it because a straight translation would result in so many numbers?
 
W

Wynnebeck

Banned
Quite interesting to see Index owe money to:

- Aniplex
- Shueisha
- Production I.G.
- TV Asahi

I'm not entirely sure but did any of the companies help produce the P4 anime?
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Jac_Solar said:
What do you mean by Project IG owes almost half a million? According to this yen converted, it's:

duckroll said:
Production IG (44,100 yen, 437 dollars.)
ASCII Media Works (31,521 yen, 313 dollars.)
Aquaplus (24,120 yen, 239 dollars.)
STUDIO MAUSU (17,314 yen, 171 dollars.)
Nintendo (13,599 yen, 135 dollars.)
Pony Canyon (12,373 yen, 122 dollars.)
Shueisha (11,395 yen, 113 dollars.)
Enterbrain (6,166 yen, 61 dollars.)
Fuji Television Network (5,525 yen, 54 dollars.)
M-ON! Entertainment (5,040 yen, 50 dollars.)
JASRAC (3,528 yen, 35 dollars.)
GREE (2,506 yen, 24 dollars.)
SEGA (2,454 yen, 24 dollars.)
Movic (2,412 yen, 23 dollars.)
YOMIKO (1,890 yen, 18 dollars.)
Aniplex (1,862 yen, 18 dollars.)
WiZ (1,737 yen, 17 dollars.)
Tomy (1,370 yen, 13 dollars.)
T.O Entertainment (1,260 yen, 12 dollars.)
TV Asahi (1,218 yen, 12 dollars.)
Taito (1,113 yen, 11 dollars.)
Gakken Publishing (1,071 yen, 10 dollars.)
Tatsumi Publishing (1,050 yen, 10 dollars.)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
In thousands of yen.
 
A

Abriael

Banned
Wynnebeck said:
Quite interesting to see Index owe money to:

- Aniplex
- Shueisha
- Production I.G.
- TV Asahi

I'm not entirely sure but did any of the companies help produce the P4 anime?
Click to expand...

The debt with TV Asahi and Shueisha is most probably for the airing of TV commercials and magazine ads.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Wonder what they owe IG for? Persona game animation stuff/intro's? Thats from yonks ago though. Quite a racket they've been running!
 
E

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Jac_Solar said:
Ah, nevermind. Gumby explained it.

So, how come the units are like that? Is it because a straight translation would result in so many numbers?
Click to expand...

I think this is just the custom in Japan because the individual currency has a very small worth. I remember fiscal reports being similar. No idea why they haven't just issued a New Yen worth 100 or 1000 Yen and be done with it.
 
C

CrazyTank940

Member
Man they owe debt to quite a bit of people huh. There's no way this could end well for Index.
Wynnebeck said:
Quite interesting to see Index owe money to:

- Aniplex
- Shueisha
- Production I.G.
- TV Asahi

I'm not entirely sure but did any of the companies help produce the P4 anime?
Click to expand...

I know Aniplex was in charge of P4 The Animation's DVD and Blu-Ray release but I don't believe I.G., Asahi, or Shueisha had involvement
 
D

duckroll

Member
Pie and Beans said:
Wonder what they owe IG for? Persona game animation stuff/intro's? Thats from yonks ago though. Quite a racket they've been running!
Click to expand...

That's the most curious thing on the list really. IG hasn't worked with Atlus for ages. It's really unlikely that these are long term bills. And honestly, almost half a million is quite a lot of money in terms of animation production in particular. I really can't think of anything, unless it's a non-Atlus project Index was investing in and bailed out on.

Interestingly enough, this will be the third time in the last few years where IG is owed money. That is assuming this isn't related to last year's case where the client was left unnamed. In 2010 IG was owed money for work Xebec did on the Yamato movie which was unpaid until they kept hounding the producers. Last year they announced that Production IG themselves were involved in a non-payment dispute of about 1.4 million which resulted in the project being cancelled. They didn't name the client involved because they were still trying to recover the money and didn't want to affect their chances of getting money back. Now this. Lol.
 
A

Azure Phoenix

Member
wrowa said:
Also, they owe money to Enterbrain? They didn't pay the money for the Famitsu scores, I see.
Click to expand...
Enterbrain print a lot of strategy guides and various other books, I know that the Persona series in particular had a number of guides, artbooks and manga series printed by Enterbrain.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
duckroll said:
That's the most curious thing on the list really. IG hasn't worked with Atlus for ages. It's really unlikely that these are long term bills. And honestly, almost half a million is quite a lot of money in terms of animation production in particular. I really can't think of anything, unless it's a non-Atlus project Index was investing in and bailed out on.

Interestingly enough, this will be the third time in the last few years where IG is owed money. That is assuming this isn't related to last year's case where the client was left unnamed. In 2010 IG was owed money for work Xebec did on the Yamato movie which was unpaid until they kept hounding the producers. Last year they announced that Production IG themselves were involved in a non-payment dispute of about 1.4 million which resulted in the project being cancelled. They didn't name the client involved because they were still trying to recover the money and didn't want to affect their chances of getting money back. Now this. Lol.
Click to expand...

Persona 5, baby! Actually, can't remember who did the Catherine bits, was probly IG?

On the topic of animation, wonder whats going to happen to the Persona 3 movies...
 
D

duckroll

Member
Pie and Beans said:
Persona 5, baby! Actually, can't remember who did the Catherine bits, was probly IG?

On the topic of animation, wonder whats going to happen to the Persona 3 movies...
Click to expand...

Catherine was Studio 4C. Nothing will happen to the P3 movies. They're produced by Aniplex, likely under license/co-production. Persona makes a lot of money, funding is not an issue. There's going to be a substantial update later this month.
 
S

Samurai_Heart

Member
Are these more likely debt made by "Atlus" or "Index" seems more than likely the debts was by Index's corruption =/
Edit:Makes me wonder how corrupted the higher ups were with this much debt....
 
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