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Going Platinum: Bayonetta 2, combat design, and the Nintendo angle

N

Nothing1016

Member
Gamasutra had an interview with Platinum Games describing their relationship with Nintendo, Bayonetta 2, and why they formed. Its a pretty interesting interview and deserves a read.

Bayonetta is so gameplay-focused that I honestly feel that Nintendo would understand it very well. Do you find that's the case?

YH: Yes, exactly. And all of the things we want to do in the game, they're not standing in our way, in that sense. But it's almost as if they are a very critical player that can sit back and give us great advice on how we're creating the game.

AI: Working with Nintendo, one thing that comes out of that is that we're not able to cover up weaknesses in the core gameplay by making the graphics prettier or adding cutscenes, or whatever. The concern, first and foremost, is the core of the game and the quality of the gameplay. They really have our back in that sense. And that's actually a little bit unnerving, working with people who are such perfectionists in that sense.
Click to expand...

It's a very showy game, and at the same time it's very responsive, quick, and deep. How do you pull both of those things off at the same time? Many games do one or the other.

YH: A lot of that comes down to the battle programmer, Don-san. His sense of being able to establish a feeling that feels right, but also to counter that with the visual representation of something -- so something might feel right, but doesn't necessarily have that action reflected on the screen -- is something that he's very good at.
Click to expand...

In a sense you're saying it's really a technical challenge to make it feel that way, rather than a gameplay design challenge?

YH: Yes, that's absolutely the case. From a design perspective, we throw things at the battle programmer. We can come up with materials that say, "We'd like it to be this way." We have requests. In that sense, we do leave it up to the programmer. There's discussion of small things -- "Bring this more to the forefront" or "implement it in this sense" -- but essentially a vision that's then implemented and allowed by the skill of the programmer.

As an example of that sort of relationship, sometimes suddenly you realize the game is really difficult. Then there's a discussion between us that maybe we should ease up on enemies a little bit, or make certain adjustments that way... so it's definitely not a one-way relationship.
Click to expand...

Bayonetta was Platinum's first big game. You've come a long way since then. Do you feel you have as much to prove with the sequel as you did with the original?

YH: Of course, this time, we want to prove ourselves in the sense that we want to show we can make something even better than the original. We're known for making original titles -- this is our first sequel. In that sense, there's still a lot to prove. We want to achieve something greater than the original in many ways.

AI: When Platinum Games was first established, we were working on a number of titles. But, in particular, Bayonetta was the first major title, and we felt like we had to put a lot into it -- so much so that we felt like the future of the company depended on the title. So in that sense, everybody in the company had a strong feeling of value placed in that title, so in that sense it was a very, very critical title.

This time around, with Bayonetta 2, we have to increase the bar. So in the same way, not so much in establishing our reputation around this title, but establishing where we can take the company -- and in that sense, again, it's just as critical as the original.
Click to expand...

lock if old.
 
S

Seik

Banned
This time around, with Bayonetta 2, we have to increase the bar. So in the same way, not so much in establishing our reputation around this title, but establishing where we can take the company -- and in that sense, again, it's just as critical as the original.
Click to expand...

All I need to know, perfect.
 
N

Nibel

Member
Glad to hear they feel comortable around their new partner

Gameplay over everything 4 life, son
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
AI: Working with Nintendo, one thing that comes out of that is that we're not able to cover up weaknesses in the core gameplay by making the graphics prettier or adding cutscenes, or whatever. The concern, first and foremost, is the core of the game and the quality of the gameplay. They really have our back in that sense. And that's actually a little bit unnerving, working with people who are such perfectionists in that sense.
Click to expand...

To hear this coming from the man who's company Kojima praised as being one of the most scarily effective and above-all is incredibly surprising. Nintendo still hasn't lost it in terms of quality control as it seems.
 
J

Jack Cayman

Banned
Still haven't played the first one on Xbox 360, the copy is sitting on my backlog shelve for years, when Bayonetta 2 was announced exclusive for Wii U I was hoping Nintendo and Platinum would port the first one on Wii U so I can experience both titles in the same system plus the upgrades an upport would bring... Maybe I should started after I finish God of War Ascension.
 
J

JDSN

Banned
Pretty impressing that they consider Nintendo perfectionists, Inaba and Kamiya have high standards for their games. I hope their relationship with Nintendo continues, I cant think of another studio that would fund something like TW101, or Bayonetta 2 for that matter.
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
Haha, let's hope Nintendo input is not "you guys should put a tutorial here... and here... and here...".
 
C

cafemomo

Member
Seems like they are happy or at least content with their relationship with Nintendo.

Here's hoping Ninty moneyhats them for a Infinite Space sequel for the 3DS
 
J

Jack Cayman

Banned
suppadoopa said:
Seems like they are happy or at least content with their relationship with Nintendo.

Here's hoping Ninty moneyhats them for a Infinite Space sequel for the 3DS
Click to expand...

100 times this, infinite space was the mass effect of the DS. The story was so well written and cruising in space never was so much fan. The battles with the starships were epic and reminded me skies of arcadia.
 
W

wizzbang

Banned
Did Nintendo outright fund this for full exclusivity? Does anyone know what the arrangement is? It's absoloutely locked to Nintendo consoles or possibly only a timed exclusive?
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
wizzbang said:
Did Nintendo outright fund this for full exclusivity? Does anyone know what the arrangement is? It's absoloutely locked to Nintendo consoles or possibly only a timed exclusive?
Click to expand...

Nintendo funded the game when SEGA was unwilling to do so. No chance.
 
S

Sendou

Member
wizzbang said:
Did Nintendo outright fund this for full exclusivity? Does anyone know what the arrangement is? It's absoloutely locked to Nintendo consoles or possibly only a timed exclusive?
Click to expand...

They funded the game. There's no chance Bayonetta 2 will be released on anything but a Nintendo platform in a reasonable time frame (read: before Nintendo stops making their own platforms)
 
R

Rehynn

Member
Bayonetta is so gameplay-focused that I honestly feel that Nintendo would understand it very well. Do you find that's the case?

YH: Yes, exactly. And all of the things we want to do in the game, they're not standing in our way, in that sense. But it's almost as if they are a very critical player that can sit back and give us great advice on how we're creating the game.

AI: Working with Nintendo, one thing that comes out of that is that we're not able to cover up weaknesses in the core gameplay by making the graphics prettier or adding cutscenes, or whatever. The concern, first and foremost, is the core of the game and the quality of the gameplay. They really have our back in that sense. And that's actually a little bit unnerving, working with people who are such perfectionists in that sense.
Click to expand...

Music to my ears, especially the bolded part.

I'll definitely play the original Bayonetta before this comes out.
 
G

gngf123

Member
wizzbang said:
Did Nintendo outright fund this for full exclusivity? Does anyone know what the arrangement is? It's absoloutely locked to Nintendo consoles or possibly only a timed exclusive?
Click to expand...

Absolutely locked to Nintendo consoles. In Kamiya's words, if you ask them to take it cross-platform, you might as well ask for cross platform Zelda while you are at it.
 
F

Frodo

Member
I read this interview and I'm like

tumblr_m3vf21XiUX1r9wxoy.gif


The part where they say they can't hide anything making the game prettier resonates really well with me. I'll take a few days off the day this game launches. Can't wait. Can't wait. OMGOMGOMG
 
D

danmaku

Member
IncandescentPrecept said:
I wonder what made Nintendo fund this game. Is it an attempt to capture the "mature" audience that liked Bayonetta?
Click to expand...

It's an attempt to attract the "core" gamers that don't care about the classic Nintendo franchises. They did the same on their previous platforms, they funded Sin & Punishment 2 on the Wii and Eternal Darkness on the Gamecube.
 
L

LiberaTeExInferis

Member
Nothing1016 said:
I agree. I want to see what Platinum has to offer on the PS4 and Xbone. Unless Platinum is dying, they need to remain 3rd party.
Click to expand...

Are you displeased with what you saw so far, regarding the gfx front?

They seem to, either by their own will or by Nintendo's will, to put gameplay as the top priority..
 
F

Frostinferno

Member
YH: Of course, this time, we want to prove ourselves in the sense that we want to show we can make something even better than the original. We're known for making original titles -- this is our first sequel. In that sense, there's still a lot to prove. We want to achieve something greater than the original in many ways.
Click to expand...

This pleases me oh so much.
 
N

Nothing1016

Member
LiberaTeExInferis said:
Are you displeased with what you saw so far, regarding the gfx front?

They seem to, either by their own will or by Nintendo's will, to put gameplay as the top priority..
Click to expand...

I am not displeased at all. I think W101 and Bayonetta 2 look great. But, I wouldn't want Platinum to limit their potential by going platform exclusive. The PS4 and Xbone will offer experiences different from that of the Wii U because of their power. Much like the Wii U and its Tablet-esque controller. They should use their creative talents to the best of their abilities.
 
P

Poimandres

Member
LiberaTeExInferis said:
Are you displeased with what you saw so far, regarding the gfx front?

They seem to, either by their own will or by Nintendo's will, to put gameplay as the top priority..
Click to expand...

I think it looks great graphically, but they obviously have more head room on the other consoles.

Platinum games in general always put gameplay first, but Bayo and Vanquish were also real lookers so it's natural to want to see what they could accomplish on the other consoles.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
LiberaTeExInferis said:
Are you displeased with what you saw so far, regarding the gfx front?

They seem to, either by their own will or by Nintendo's will, to put gameplay as the top priority..
Click to expand...

Well Platinum has a potential sequel (Rising 2) in which the core concept can be pushed to amazing heights with more powerful hardware. I wouldn't want to see Platinum Nintendo exclusive either.

I wouldn't be mad at a continuing relationship though. Something like The Wonderful 101 wouldn't happen anywhere else. (and neither would Bayo 2 I guess)
 
R

Raysoul

Member
This interview is similar to a good porn novel. It really shows what is the company's philosophy for creating games.
 
S

Sendou

Member
Poimandres said:
I think it looks great graphically, but they obviously have more head room on the other consoles.

Platinum games in general always put gameplay first, but Bayo and Vanquish were also real lookers so it's natural to want to see what they could accomplish on the other consoles.
Click to expand...

In the end the only way to truly get best possible graphics is to develop your game to high-end PC rigs exclusively. I feel that Wii U is powerful enough to achieve Platinum's vision unless their goals will dramatically change coming from this gen. Waiting for Rising PC release before buying it so that might very well change my mind on that matter.
 
F

Frodo

Member
Good thing TW101 is just around the corner and it will be more than enough to satiate my hunger for a good action game for a while... And then: Bayonetta 2 comes out and.. OMGOMGOMG
 
E

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
Poimandres said:
I think it looks great graphically, but they obviously have more head room on the other consoles.

Platinum games in general always put gameplay first, but Bayo and Vanquish were also real lookers so it's natural to want to see what they could accomplish on the other consoles.
Click to expand...

hahahaha what

Vanquish was ugly as sin

Bayo was ok but even it wasn't particularly great (speaking art/graphics here, very fun to play)
 
W

wizzbang

Banned
Sendou said:
They funded the game. There's no chance Bayonetta 2 will be released on anything but a Nintendo platform in a reasonable time frame (read: before Nintendo stops making their own platforms)
Click to expand...

Does that absoloutely confirm they can't release on other platforms? Like they entirely funded the game or partially? Do they own the rights?
I'm assuming you guys are completely right, I just kinda want assurance y'all know what you're talking about before I commit seppuku here.

EDIT: yeah it sounds like it's concrete :(
 
W

wizzbang

Banned
gngf123 said:
Absolutely locked to Nintendo consoles. In Kamiya's words, if you ask them to take it cross-platform, you might as well ask for cross platform Zelda while you are at it.
Click to expand...

So be it, need to borrow a coworkers Wii U and or commit seppuku!
(I have a loose agreement to borrow a coworkers console, buy B2, loan him the game / give him his console back when I'm done - then we sell the game - he barely uses his Wii U)
 
P

Poimandres

Member
Envelope said:
hahahaha what

Vanquish was ugly as sin

Bayo was ok but even it wasn't particularly great (speaking art/graphics here, very fun to play)
Click to expand...

You really think so? I was just playing it yesterday and thought it looked pretty nice.

It's a good example of a game that could use extra power though, even if it was just used to push it to 60fps.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Envelope said:
hahahaha what

Vanquish was ugly as sin

Bayo was ok but even it wasn't particularly great (speaking art/graphics here, very fun to play)
Click to expand...

Vanquish looks great for the amount of effects its pushing while managing to stick to a fairly solid framerate. If you didn't like the art style that's one thing, but Vanquish is a very good game technically.
 
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