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More_Badass · Feb 25, 2014

I've noticed that a lot of people here dismiss that like it's a bad thing

Star Citizen

Ghost Song

Shovel Knight

All three were influenced by Demons'/Dark Souls. This fantastic two piece article How do you make an RPG after Dark Souls? (Part 1, Part 2) interviews numerous developers and talks about how Dark Souls has inspired so many aspects and elements in their games and other games, influencing how developers approached combat, navigation, world design, challenge.

I don't really understand why people get turned off when a developer say a game is inspired by Dark Souls. I'd think that would make then even more intrigued. When I read a game is influenced by Dark Souls, I don't think "Oh, it's going to be a Gothic fantasy action RPG." I think that the game in question will be challenging, will have a focus on exploration and atmosphere, will have combat and gameplay where caution and playing defensively is important. We should be applauding and encouraging games like that, not dismissing them because the dev namedrops a title that was a major influence

How do you feel about games being "inspired by Dark Souls"?

Silky · Feb 25, 2014

If more games were inspired by how Dark Souls handles it's multiplayer and difficulty well I'd be a fan of more games.

KevMan1815 · Feb 25, 2014

I feel like the term is thrown around entirely too much.

nckillthegrimace · Feb 25, 2014

It's the new "inspired by Metroid." It doesn't mean anything unless the developer shows an actual understanding for why those games resonate with so many people.

HK-47 · Feb 25, 2014

As useful as any popular name drop. Can mean whatever the dev wants it to mean.

Ferrio · Feb 25, 2014

More_Badass said:
I
How do you feel games being "inspired by Dark Souls"?

I feel it's a phrase that doesn't accurately describe a game, and is just being used as a catch phrase to try and snag more buyers from dark souls fans. So pretty much worthless.

Metalingus5150 · Feb 25, 2014

If they can do it in the right way, I'm all for it.

Krakn3Dfx · Feb 25, 2014

"Inspired by Dark Souls" is the new "Roguelike"

Holy Order Sol · Feb 25, 2014

I like things that mean auto-awesome.

Parakeetman · Feb 25, 2014

Its just irritating as hell to see since really its used more to gain attention than actually describe anything. Riding on the coattails of something popular so to speak.

Krakn3Dfx said:
"Inspired by Dark Souls" is the new "Roguelike"

Actually I think roguelike is newer than the whole inspired by dark souls thing. If anything its still being used quite frequently today. My question is what brought the term back into the mix?

NoirVisage · Feb 25, 2014

nckillthegrimace said:
It's the new "inspired by Metroid." It doesn't mean anything unless the developer shows an actual understanding for why those games resonate with so many people.

exactly.
I tune out when a developer mentions dark souls, 9 times out of 10 it just means their game is only harder than casual.

Lumination · Feb 25, 2014

When any company does it, it feels like they're trying to cash in on Dark Souls's fan base.

How about explain what your game does? Does it have great atmosphere? Crushing, but fair difficulty? Use words besides "inspired by Dark Souls" to describe what it is your game excels at.

mothball · Feb 25, 2014

nckillthegrimace said:
It's the new "inspired by Metroid." It doesn't mean anything unless the developer shows an actual understanding for why those games resonate with so many people.

Krakn3Dfx said:
"Inspired by Dark Souls" is the new "Roguelike"

Gotta go with these.

Noble Neckbeard · Feb 25, 2014

I hope that other companies don't try to be like Souls, and instead try to find their own creative voice. After all, that's how Souls came to be.

kazebyaka · Feb 25, 2014

And for some reason no TPS says "Inspired by Gears of War"

fredrancour · Feb 25, 2014

It's scary to hear because the game industry has seen too many copycat phenomenons go horribly wrong.

Did the phrase "Halo-killer" inspire confidence?

Do people like CoD wannabes?

Did any motion-controlled sports knockoffs manage to be as enjoyable as the 3 wonderful entries in the wii sports series?

We are used to references like this being more about marketing spin than actual game content.

Many of those games seem poised to turn out wonderfully but years of conditioning still alters things.

Delstius · Feb 25, 2014

Because just saying «it will be difficult» doesn't appeal and even rebute nowadays. But say you're following a trend and everyone will like it.

KarmaCow · Feb 25, 2014

Krakn3Dfx said:
"Inspired by Dark Souls" is the new "Roguelike"

Yup, it's an instant red flag because 90% of the time the developer is just name dropping.

Parakeetman · Feb 25, 2014

kazebyaka said:
And for some reason no TPS says "Inspired by Gears of War"

Thats becuase Gears of War was "Inspired by Kill Switch"

---

Back on the topic really would have to say that any title that uses "Inspired by Dark Souls" Im more likely to give a pass than a purchase.

Noble Neckbeard · Feb 25, 2014

kazebyaka said:
And for some reason no TPS says "Inspired by Gears of War"

Gears was a lot like Resident Evil 4, as well. RE4 was very ahead of its time.

Cetra · Feb 25, 2014

Silky said:
If more games were inspired by how Dark Souls handles it's multiplayer and difficulty well I'd be a fan of more games.

Precisely. Dark Souls changed the way I see games in a lot of ways. Most notably was that it reminded me how cool my own accomplishments felt in a game, rather than the accomplishments my character achieves after I'd steered them up the next cut-scene. In doing so it also ruined a lot of games that used to be my favorites.

I used to love the Metal Gear Solid series, but after Dark Souls I just don't like it anymore. Too much focus on having things happen to characters in a narrative with absolutely zero influence from the player.

It's basically Tokien's argument for applicability rather then allegory; applicability relying on the thought and experience of the reader (player) rather then the purposed domination of an author (developer).

That's not to say that those games are bad, but rather that I simply can't enjoy them as easily as I used to.

Kai Dracon · Feb 25, 2014

To some degree Dark Souls has become this kind of video game merit badge. If you've played / respect Dark Souls you have gamer cred with all these people who see the game as the definition of true gaming.

I imagine that makes name-dropping it a convenient short cut for developers - "Inspired by Dark Souls" is a way to get across a particular attitude. Even when their game doesn't overtly lift a feature straight out of a Souls game.

I'm not bothered by it. But I am amused that Dark Souls has become such a phenomenon, for doing little more advocating the notion that the right to see the end credits is something to be earned.

Noble Neckbeard · Feb 25, 2014

fredrancour said:
It's scary to hear because the game industry has seen too many copycat phenomenons go horribly wrong.

Did the phrase "Halo-killer" inspire confidence?

Do people like CoD wannabes?

Did any motion-controlled sports knockoffs manage to be as enjoyable as the 3 wonderful entries in the wii sports series?

We are used to references like this being more about marketing spin than actual game content.

Many of those games seem poised to turn out wonderfully but years of conditioning still alters things.

This is a fantastic post. Thank you.

Cynar · Feb 25, 2014

NoirVisage said:
exactly.
I tune out when a developer mentions dark souls, 9 times out of 10 it just means their game is only harder than casual.

This. As a huge dark souls fan it makes me question if these people even played dark souls.

Opiate · Feb 25, 2014

My game is a mix of Dark Souls and GTA and Minecraft and please just buy my game.

Mister Chippy · Feb 25, 2014

Ehh. Dark souls didn't really do any big original things (outside of multiplayer elements) for anyone to be inspired by. It took a lot of previously existing ideas and combined them together with stellar atmosphere and insane difficulty, but really it's not really all that revolutionary, just a very good game. Honestly it's design is kinda a bog standard action RPG with a few weird mechanics when you get down to it. I don't know if "High difficulty and superb execution" is really something you can be 'inspired' by.

Orochinagis · Feb 25, 2014

You mean baldurs gate

Syril · Feb 25, 2014

People get sick of "inspired by Dark Souls" because it's used so often by so many different projects that it starts to lose all meaning. No one's complaining about having more games focusing on atmosphere, challenge, and not having information shoved in your face all the time, but saying "inspired by Dark Souls" for things as general as that does a disservice to other games' ability to have that kind of design on their own.

Jobbs · Feb 25, 2014

I understand Dark Souls intimately and I feel my game really does channel this in many ways. It really wasn't just a name drop.

Just incidentally, the upcoming video will actually pretty well demonstrates the Souls inspiration and essence that wasn't evident in the KS campaign and I'm really excited for everyone to finally see. Early March.

Toxi · Feb 25, 2014

Don't we already have this thread?

Talk is cheap, but this talk makes me hopeful. I'd be happy to see more games embracing the Souls games' style and I'm looking forward to Shovel Knight. Not every game should be Souls, but there should be more games designed like Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. When I say design I don't mean "dark fantasy", I mean the game's mechanical style and tools for creating atmosphere.

Also, horror game makers need to play World 3-1 (Tower of Latria) in Demon's Souls. It has no quick-time events, few scripted scares (The iron maidens), and relies mostly on level design, sound design, lighting, and enemy behavior to create a spooky atmosphere. One of the common complaints about horror games like Amnesia: The Dark Descent is how obviously scripted they tend to be, and I feel like 3-1 shows another way. It's also a damn good example of level design in general.

Psycho_Mantis · Feb 25, 2014

Opiate said:
My game is a mix of Dark Souls and GTA and Minecraft and please just buy my game.

.

This. Please stop using other games to describe your game.

Turin Turambar · Feb 25, 2014

More_Badass said:
I've noticed that a lot of people here dismiss that like it's a bad thing

First, we had this thread two days ago, linking the same article.

Second, we dismiss it because it's a stupid catchphrase, not because Dark Souls is bad. It's just marketing speak for saying "our game is hard". Never mind that putting Star Citizen that is pure smoke right now is a bit silly, as it doesn't prove anything.

Nymphae · Feb 25, 2014

Because a lot of people don't like hard games I think. Dark Souls borders on masochistic to people like me, I just don't have the fucking time for that shit. And honestly, I don't feel the sense of accomplishment people claim to get from it, maybe that's just me. I just felt like I wasted a fuck ton of time with Demon's Souls.

OneUh8 · Feb 25, 2014

I notice this phrase alot these days when devs or whoever is describing a game. whether that ends up being true in the game or not is yet to be seen.

mullet2000 · Feb 25, 2014

People just use "inspired by Dark Souls" or comparisons to Dark Souls as a synonym for "It's hard" at this point.

ethomaz · Feb 25, 2014

By Demon's Souls you mean (Dark Souls copied everything from Demon's Souls).

Or if you want to go back: Baldur's Gate.

Orayn · Feb 25, 2014

Krakn3Dfx said:
"Inspired by Dark Souls" is the new "Roguelike"

Most games that namedropped "Roguelike" still used important fixtures of the sub-genre like heavy randomization and permadeath, while "inspired by Dark Souls" is generally a lot more nebulous.

I'm not doubting that they were inspired by it, mind you, just saying that they tend to latch onto the more general aspects rather than imitating any of its main mechanics.

I sincerely want a straight up clone of the Souls series that follows in its footsteps the way Heretic/Hexen or Blood followed Doom.

Mister Chippy · Feb 25, 2014

Parakeetman said:
Actually I think roguelike is newer than the whole inspired by dark souls thing. If anything its still being used quite frequently today. My question is what brought the term back into the mix?

Honestly IDK about that. There has been a huge number of new rougelikes that have come out lately but I know that the term came back a little while before then when the most notable rougelike released in a while was BOI. At least the term is being used accurately nowadays, since we've got current games we can actually point to and say "This is what a rougelike is."

HK-47 · Feb 25, 2014

ethomaz said:
By Demon's Souls you mean (Dark Souls copied everything from Demon's Souls).

Or if you want to go back: Baldur's Gate.

I don't understand what you are even getting at here

Requeim · Feb 25, 2014

I think it's a bit weird, but it's only annoying to me when it refers to things that were just as present in Demon's Souls as well.

Dark Souls gets way too much credit for things that weren't even that special by the time it came out, and Demon's Souls had already been out for a long time.

Amazeballs · Feb 25, 2014

It's the new buzzword. A buzzphrase? Whatever it is, it's meaning is hollow in 90% of its applications.

Guevara · Feb 25, 2014

DARK SOULS across the belly/I prove You Died already

Brace yourself for the main event
Y'all impatiently waiting
It's like an AIDS test, what's the results?
Not positive, who's the best? Demon's? Dark? Dark 2?
Ain't no best, East, West, North, South, flossed out, greedy
I embrace y'all with napalm
Blows up, no guts, left chest, face gone
How could Souls be garbage?
Semi-autos at your cartilage
Burner at the side of your dome, come outta my throne
I got this, locked since '0-9
I am the truest, name a genre that I ain't influenced

Architechnophile · Feb 25, 2014

I'll say here what I said about that article on twitter:

I think this is supposed to be a paean but it reads like "How Dark Soulsification Can Work For Your Business!"

Dark Souls always worked, to me, in ways that were more complex than "It's very challenging" or "The world feels unwelcome". It's not just about those bullet points, it's about how the various themes intersect with each other, how they're subtle but consistent, and how little nuanced features complement that larger whole. It loses its specialness when any one aspect gets extruded and commodified.

Ferrio · Feb 25, 2014

HK-47 said:
I don't understand what you are even getting at here

Ya... that's a weird comparison.. I don't know how you'd relate baldur's gate to demon/dark souls...

soldat7 · Feb 25, 2014

ethomaz said:
By Demon's Souls you mean (Dark Souls copied everything from Demon's Souls).

The multi-platform nature of Dark Souls (and the fact that it's a more recent game) places "Dark Souls" in more people's vocabulary.

Demon's FTW though.

Mister Chippy · Feb 25, 2014

Requeim said:
I think it's a bit weird, but it's only annoying to me when it refers to things that were just as present in Demon's Souls as well.

Dark Souls gets way too much credit for things that weren't even that special by the time it came out, and Demon's Souls had already been out for a long time.

Most of the stuff in Dark Souls has existed ever since roleplaying games (the IRL kind) started being a thing. Dark Souls is just a fairly standard RPG with high difficulty and superb execution. By itself it did almost nothing new, just a lot of old things really well.

Servbot24 · Feb 25, 2014

When someone says they're inspired by Dark Souls, it doesn't mean they're setting out to make a Dark Souls clone or even steal certain elements of it. It just means they're inspired by Dark Souls.

makatk · Feb 25, 2014

imo anyone who uses this phrase is a hypocrite and a con.
trying to cash in on the hardcore crowd , and gamers nowadays are the most gullible out of all the consumers out their.

Parakeetman · Feb 25, 2014

Mister Chippy said:
Honestly IDK about that. There has been a huge number of new rougelikes that have come out lately but I know that the term came back a little while before then when the most notable rougelike released in a while was BOI. At least the term is being used accurately nowadays, since we've got current games we can actually point to and say "This is what a rougelike is."

Other folks seem to think "roguelike" means randomized for whatever reason. But yes its used a lot more accurately for the most part than "inspired by dark souls" thats for sure.

makatk said:
imo anyone who uses this phrase is a hypocrite and a con.
trying to cash in on the hardcore crowd , and gamers nowadays are the most gullible out of all the consumers out their.

I wouldnt go calling folks hypocrite / con but to me personally it doesnt reflect well when one has to name drop when it comes to what their game is. Its different when a developer talks off the record about games they enjoy vs. dropping names in relation to what their title is about.

Garcia · Feb 25, 2014

Lumination said:
When any company does it, it feels like they're trying to cash in on Dark Souls's fan base.

Sounds like it.

If "inspired by Dark Souls" equals to "no handholding" then I pretty much prefer the later to be used as a tag from now on. The former has a strong resonance for gloomy, depressive worlds and it just doesn't have to be that way.

Imagine if every difficult game leaned towards a dark atmosphere? I'd hate that and it's not a future I would personally like to see. You can pretty much create both a challenging and rewarding game with any kind of visual style you like.

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