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Nintendo's handling of Tomodachi Life is "behind the times".

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Authority

Banned
Nintendo''s Second Response

We are committed to fun and entertainment for everyone

We apologize for disappointing many people by failing to include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to change this game’s design, and such a significant development change can’t be accomplished with a post-ship patch. At Nintendo, dedication has always meant going beyond the games to promote a sense of community, and to share a spirit of fun and joy. We are committed to advancing our longtime company values of fun and entertainment for everyone. We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players.
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Nintendo's First Response
  • The game does not represent any form of social commentary.
  • The game represents a playful alternate world.
  • Tomodachi Life was intended to be a whimsical and quirky game.

    "Nintendo never intended to make any form of social commentary with the launch of 'Tomodachi Life.' The relationship options in the game represent a playful alternate world rather than a real-life simulation. We hope that all of our fans will see that 'Tomodachi Life' was intended to be a whimsical and quirky game, and that we were absolutely not trying to provide social commentary. The ability for same-sex relationships to occur in the game was not part of the original game that launched in Japan, and that game is made up of the same code that was used to localize it for other regions outside of Japan."
    Click to expand...
Counter-arguments
  • Same-sex relationships are not a "social commentary"; they are a cultural reality.
  • The original ‘whimsical and quirky’ life simulator - Allowed its users to marry any character they wanted.
  • Nintendo has got a history of promoting open mindedness - Metroid (Female Main Character), Super Mario Bros. 2 miniboss Birdo (shoots eggs from its face, has changed from male to female and back again over the years), Yoshi being a male dinosaur that can lay eggs, Animal Crossing games (players can’t specifically set their character gender, an environment being "queer/transgender friendly), and Captain Rainbow (self-explanatory)
  • Nintendo is an international company and should cater to its audience accordingly.
  • It is not a cost issue or sales will not go up with the additional patch - Animal Crossing: New Leaf has worldwide sales of 7.38 million since 31th of December, 2013.
  • What is the harm?
Takedown
tomodachi-life.jpg

Nintendo has no plans to update its handheld life simulator Tomodachi Life to include same-sex relationships - a move LGBT advocacy group GLAAD calls a "hurtful message" to its players, VentureBeat reports.

"In purposefully limiting players' relationship options, Nintendo is not only sending a hurtful message to many of its fans and consumers by excluding them, but also setting itself way behind the times," GLAAD national spokesperson Wilson Cruz told the publication.

Cruz rejected this description, citing "the original 'whimsical and quirky' life simulator," The Sims, as an example of allowing players to marry whatever character they wish. "Many other mainstream and massively popular video games have followed [Electronic Arts'] lead since," Cruz said. "Nintendo should do the same."
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Credits to Nintendo's handling of Tomodachi Life is 'behind the times,' GLAAD says and GLAAD to Nintendo: Lack of gay characters in new life sim is ‘hurtful’ and ‘behind the times’

]Public Perception

My son (age 9) loves Nintendo. He particularly loves Pokémon and Mario. The Nintendo store is one of his favorite places to go. However, when I showed him that Nintendo is discriminating against gays in Tomodachi Life he was very disappointed and says he doesn't want to go to the Nintendo store for awhile. His comment was, "But gay people can be awesome, just like the rest of us."
I think you should reconsider your policy. It is needlessly foolish and discriminatory.
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My son's comments to Nintendo about gays
 
H

Heyt

Banned
Well, Sakamoto made it. How could anyone think the guy behind Other M could do anything forward thinking at all when it comes to human relationships.
 
B

Beelzebufo

Banned
The weirdest part is that having gay relationships could add a lot to the game. That'd make for a great soap opera-y plot twist even.
 
P

Peru

Member
Agreed. I'm excited for the game and thought the absence of same sex relationships was unfortunate but an oversight that could've been forgiven if the attitude was 'next time we'll look at getting it right' but the response about the game not being 'social commentary' was what was REALLY offensive to me.
 
P

plantedunicorn

Member
I doubt Nintendo expected this to happen but they've already lost control of the situation. At this point the least they can do is release a patch at release. Just stop releasing bullshit half statements that don't say anything of importance.

I doubt Nintendo made this decision out of malice but it does seem like a pretty big oversight to bill your game as a life simulator and exclude common type of relationship from the game.
 
P

Phediuk

Member
Given Nintendo's historically draconian conservatism I don't see why anyone is surprised that they're not leaping to be socially progressive.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Without getting the logistics of whether or not the game can be patched in due time (I'd say yes, but Nintendo love making life difficult for themselves), that statement was just mind-boggling. You think gay marriage is a safe fence to sit on any more? Really? Even them coming out and say "THE BIBLE SAYS" would be a more reasonable stance than pretending they, as a company, exist outside the cultural bubble.

Heyt said:
Well, Sakamoto made it. How could anyone think the guy behind Other M could do anything forward thinking at all when it comes to human relationships.
Click to expand...

Damn, that first post ether

Phediuk said:
Given Nintendo's historically draconian conservatism I don't see why anyone is surprised that they're not leaping to be socially progressive.
Click to expand...

diversity.jpg


This is a slide from the GDC postmortem of Animal Crossing: New Leaf. Just saying.
 
M

MichaelFassbender

Member
I don't know what the people up in arms expect Nintendo to do. They're not exactly flush with cash these days, and going back to the drawing board for a game that's almost released would be just another blow to their bottom line. They are, after all, a business...
 
A

AzaK

Member
Peru said:
Agreed. I'm excited for the game and thought the absence of same sex relationships was unfortunate but an oversight that could've been forgiven if the attitude was 'next time we'll look at getting it right' but the response about the game not being 'social commentary' was what was REALLY offensive to me.
Click to expand...
Agreed. They tried to use the 'it's only a game' defence which is obviously bullshit.
 
sakipon

sakipon

Member
Don't buy it if you don't like it. I'd understand the issue if no game had gay relationships, but many do. There is no need for all games to offer that.
 
C

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Madao said:
well, people can still vote with their wallets, right?
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Yes and this will probably be the last game of the series we get if its bomb - its a loose/loose situation sadly.

To be honest i never would expected this to be the kind of game which would offend people - remind me of the no black skin option in Animal Crossing story.
 
J

jonno394

Member
MichaelFassbender said:
I don't know what the people up in arms expect Nintendo to do. They're not exactly flush with cash these days, and going back to the drawing board for a game that's almost released would be just another blow to their bottom line. They are, after all, a business...
Click to expand...

Plus the fact all Ninteno US/EU are doing is localising the game, they're not developing it. The game was finished ages ago. LGBT rights is all well and good, and I believe in equality, but it's a game for christ sake. It's not as if Nintendo have come out and said "we don't want gays playing our games, so no we're not putting it in". It was an oversight by Japanese developers who made a game a while back. The only thing they'd get out of going back, injecting money in to a project to get LGBT stuff in to a game that admittedly probably won't move loads of copies in the west, is positive PR.
 
O

optimiss

Junior Member
I really want this game but have no interest in the romance aspect because it is limited to a heterosexual relationship. I might not buy it because that seems to be a large component of the story. Does anyone know how large a part of the game it is?
 
R

Replicant

Member
Phediuk said:
Given Nintendo's historically draconian conservatism I don't see why anyone is surprised that they're not leaping to be socially progressive.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. They can't even be bothered to get basic account services right. Do people seriously think they care about equal representation?

Vote with your money if you want to really show them their error.
 
T

TunaMarshmallow

Member
Any time this sort of 'life' game (even if whimsical) doesn't give players a substantially diverse set of options for characters and relationships, it's a real shame. It's bad and hurtful for many users and it's bad company policy.

I'd like to see a round-up of games within this roughly defined genre (i.e., where one creates a character from scratch and then manages that character's relationships) to see how other games compare. Nintendo is getting a lot of the heat, but I suspect that the problem is very widespread.
 
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Authority

Banned
Phediuk said:
Given Nintendo's historically draconian conservatism I don't see why anyone is surprised that they're not leaping to be socially progressive.
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I completely disagree.

Nintendo also has a history of characters that have loosely defined genders that are also notable for how little anyone dwells on that fact. The Super Mario Bros. 2 miniboss Birdo, which shoots eggs from its face, has changed from male to female and back again over the years. The mushroom-topped Toad was androgynous for years before Nintendo introduced Toadette. And Yoshi is a male dinosaur that can lay eggs.

And then we have this,

Prince Peasley pokes Luigi for 5 minutes
Click to expand...
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
cw_sasuke said:
Yes and this will probably be the last game of the series we get if its bomb - its a loose/loose situation sadly.

To be honest i never would expected this to be the kind of game which would offend people - remind me of the no black skin option in Animal Crossing story.
Click to expand...

For the record, this is still the worst. :p
 
C

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Hot Coldman said:
For the record, this is still the worst. :p
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Heh.
As a black guy i really couldnt care less. Would the option be nice ? Sure - but it wont break or make any title for me. If its not for me i`ll just dont buy it like everything else.

Qblivion said:
Are you kidding me? The very least they could have done was not say "Your kind have no place in our whimsical fantasy world"
Click to expand...

You really think that ?
 
S

saska

Member
I don't know what kind of game it is but come on. This shouldn't be an issue at all. It's just a game and the designer can make whatever he wants with. This is like saying GTA should be patched to disable killing people. Or is there something I'm missing?
 
B

bryehn

Member
It would have been smarter to simply say "The game is already being manufactured, we understand the concerns of the LGBTQ community and will make efforts to remedy this situation in the future"
 
S

Silky

Banned
I'm still surprised that Nintendo even commented on the matter. What pisses me off was how they commented.

Someday Nintendo'll learn. I mean they're just now giving the option to have a black trainer, so maybe they're learning?

saska said:
I don't know what kind of game it is but come on. This shouldn't be an issue at all. It's just a game and the designer can make whatever he wants with. This is like saying GTA should be patched to disable killing people. Or is there something I'm missing?
Click to expand...

Make an effort to research the topic at hand before commenting, for starters. Their stance on not adding the characters because "they don't want to be involved in any social commentary" is a fucking stupid response. I would take the usual PR bullshit than...well, /that/ form of PR bullshit. It's a copout, and a very narrow way of thinking that "not including the unrepresented demographic = neutrality."
 
U

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
You can't even choose a dark skin tone in Animal Crossing, Nintendo has never been cutting-edge with this sort of thing. They are a conservative Japanese company who target Japanese consumers ahead of everybody else. They have a few cartoon characters like Birdo who (in Japan only) is of ambiguous gender and a few BDSM gimps like Tingle (who has been totally excised from Zelda) but that's it.

They are still too afraid to release Devil World in America and took the word 'damn' out of Metroid Prime 3, it will be a long time before they release a game in the West that features LGBT relationships.
 
H

hwy_61

Banned
Maybe things will be different when the old bigot generation dies off. The consumer after all influences design choices in Nintendo games, no? Would this game have been a huge success in Japan if it had let you create a LGBT person? I think 5-10 years from now, things will be very different when it comes to LGBT in video games.
 
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Phediuk

Member
Hot Coldman said:
Without getting the logistics of whether or not the game can be patched in due time (I'd say yes, but Nintendo love making life difficult for themselves), that statement was just mind-boggling. You think gay marriage is a safe fence to sit on any more? Really? Even them coming out and say "THE BIBLE SAYS" would be a more reasonable stance than pretending they, as a company, exist outside the cultural bubble.



Damn, that first post ether



diversity.jpg


This is a slide from the GDC postmortem of Animal Crossing: New Leaf. Just saying.
Click to expand...

lol.

Politically, Nintendo is the Disney of video games: a long history of hyperconservatism couched in family-friendlly, whimsical narratives. Also like Disney, when questioned about the social messages their works convey, they get highly defensive and almost hostile, ardently insisting that their output is apolitical and just for fun, and use this supposed distance from politics to justify an almost psychotic obsession with censorship and information control within their ecosystem.
 
W

wsippel

Banned
plantedunicorn said:
I doubt Nintendo expected this to happen but they've already lost control of the situation. At this point the least they can do is release a patch at release. Just stop releasing bullshit half statements that don't say anything of importance.

I doubt Nintendo made this decision out of malice but it does seem like a pretty big oversight to bill your game as a life simulator and exclude common type of relationship from the game.
Click to expand...
They can't. People think it's just a switch they need to flip somewhere, but that's wrong. They would have to rework substantial parts of the game. It's quite simply too late.

The irony is that this backlash, if it impacts sales, will probably not lead to gay relationships getting implemented in Tomodatchi Collection 3 - it will lead to Tomodatchi Collection 3 staying in Japan.
 
E

Ecotic

Member
MichaelFassbender said:
I don't know what the people up in arms expect Nintendo to do. They're not exactly flush with cash these days, and going back to the drawing board for a game that's almost released would be just another blow to their bottom line. They are, after all, a business...
Click to expand...

Social activism is more about making a point and winning the argument. And change happens the next time as people/corporations/entities realize their error.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Phediuk said:
lol.

Politically, Nintendo is the Disney of video games: a long history of hyperconservatism couched in family-friendlly, whimsical narratives. Also like Disney, when questioned about the social messages their works convey, they get highly defensive and almost hostile, ardently insisting that their output is apolitical and just for fun.
Click to expand...

Errr... Nintendo has had flamboyant and even trans-characters before anyone else in the business. I'd say their output is way closer to humanistic values of Ghibli than the conservative Disney.

And like any big company they avoid controversy for sure.
 
S

Silky

Banned
Ushojax said:
You can't even choose a dark skin tone in Animal Crossing, Nintendo has never been cutting-edge with this sort of thing. They are a conservative Japanese company who target Japanese consumers ahead of everybody else. They have a few cartoon characters like Birdo who (in Japan only) is of ambiguous gender but that's it.
Click to expand...

Mii Mask, but I understand your point. I hope in the future AC titles gives people the choice of a darker skin tone instead of just having a limited tan.
 
M

MichaelFassbender

Member
Ecotic said:
Social activism is more about making a point and winning the argument. And change happens the next time as people/corporations/entities realize their error.
Click to expand...

I'd contend that the style of argumentation you are proposing is a bit toothless, but if it makes people feel any better, go right on ahead. The internet has ample resources for such things.
 
Wolfe

Wolfe

Member
jonno394 said:
Plus the fact all Ninteno US/EU are doing is localising the game, they're not developing it. The game was finished ages ago. LGBT rights is all well and good, and I believe in equality, but it's a game for christ sake. It's not as if Nintendo have come out and said "we don't want gays playing our games, so no we're not putting it in". It was an oversight by Japanese developers who made a game a while back. The only thing they'd get out of going back, injecting money in to a project to get LGBT stuff in to a game that admittedly probably won't move loads of copies in the west, is positive PR.
Click to expand...

Naw man, it's better to get all pissed off and shout about things.

I understand finding it disappointing but some people are acting like this is a huge travesty or something.
 
Robin64

Robin64

Member
What will really happen is that we don't get any more Tomodachi games as Nintendo don't think they are suitable for the west based on this.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Phediuk said:
lol.

Politically, Nintendo is the Disney of video games: a long history of hyperconservatism couched in family-friendlly, whimsical narratives. Also like Disney, when questioned about the social messages their works convey, they get highly defensive and almost hostile, ardently insisting that their output is apolitical and just for fun.
Click to expand...

Ehhhhh, but Disney had that Disney Channel show with the lesbians mums. Amongst other things. I agree with what you're saying, Disney are just a lot cannier about it. They understand what constitutes actual social commentary; they know when lines are "safe" to cross.

It's 2014: Nintendo shouldn't be worrying about kicking up a fuss with regards to gay marriage. (Obviously the situation is different in Japan, but this is very much a conversation about the EU and US versions of the game, so I'm not gonna take any decisions made regarding the original game into account here.)
 
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