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Are we stuck in "gamer nostalgia" mode?

M

mechphree

Member
I was showing a friend of mine the new FFXV and the first thing she said was " it's not like FF7 so I don't wanna try it". This developed into a debate of nostalgia and liking games based on the fact they were old. Her arugement was FF as a whole has deviated from its core roots. The randomized battles, long dungeon grinds or turn based combat were her reasons. I think she has a very valid point, but I feel at some point devs shouldn't keep trying to make games that were like what we played when we were kids. I'm all for reminniscing on the "good ol days" but I think sometimes as gamers we see every game through nostalgia glasses.

I definitely think its good to take inspiration from older games, or try to recreate those same feelings from them. But to go as far as using archaic gameplay mechanics or dated graphics or plain bad ideas? No. Do you think we was gamers look at certain games to often with "nostalgia glasses"? Or do you feel game developers need to take MORE inspiration from older games when they create new ones?
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

Member
mechphree said:
I was showing a friend of mine the new FFXV and the first thing she said was " it's not like FF7 so I don't wanna try it". This developed into a debate of nostalgia and liking games based on the fact they were old. Her arugement was FF as a whole has deviated from its core roots. The randomized battles, long dungeon grinds or turn based combat were her reasons. I think she has a very valid point, but I feel at some point devs shouldn't keep trying to make games that were like what we played when we were kids. I'm all for reminniscing on the "good ol days" but I think sometimes as gamers we see every game through nostalgia glasses.

I definitely think its good to take inspiration from older games, or try to recreate those same feelings from them. But to go as far as using archaic gameplay mechanics or dated graphics or plain bad ideas? No. Do you think we was gamers look at certain games to often with "nostalgia glasses"? Or do you feel game developers need to take MORE inspiration from older games when they create new ones?
Click to expand...

Introduce her to Dragon Quest.
 
H

hatchx

Banned
mechphree said:
I was showing a friend of mine the new FFXV and the first thing she said was " it's not like FF7 so I don't wanna try it". ?
Click to expand...

Your friend is foolish, and their opinion isn't really worth your lengthy discussion to be honest. FF7 came out in the 90s.....it's been over a decade with lots of successful follow-ups.


leatherhat said:
In her defense FF15 does look horrible.
Click to expand...


Joke post?




And to the OPs point, I would say no. Nostalgia is always a nice thing, but look at the sales of Destiny. Just look at them.
 
R

RMI

Banned
leatherhat said:
In her defense FF15 does look horrible.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's perfectly okay to look at FF15 and decide it doesn't appeal to you based on your previous experience with good games in the franchise. That's not to say FF15 is going to be worse than those games, I have no idea, but it doesn't look like Final Fantasy IV or VI so I'm not getting excited about it as a FF game.

If anything, It's SE that are stuck in nostalgia mode. They need to let go of the FF name.
 
P

platformmaster918

Banned
I have definitely noticed people being way too nostalgic with games lately. They just don't get excited over new stuff and instead just think "it's not as good as (insert old game here)"

An important caveat though. I think this is FAR more prevalent with Nintendo gamers. I live with one in particular who epitomizes what I hate about a lot of Nintendo gamers (even though he's an awesome roommate otherwise and enjoys when I buy something new).

He never invests in WiiU despite defending that it is the only console worth owning. He downplays everything on my PS4 saying he could do it on PC or it's like a movie. Now I have a WiiU also and he enjoys the most when we're replaying classic tracks on MK8. Ridiculous the stuff he comes up with. He even refuses to admit the increased cost for games as he says that tools have advanced so he justifies pirating by saying that. I had a lengthy argument about how many studios have gone out of business and how cost has gone up so much despite the price for a game being the same but he just says it costs them the same and he's not willing to pay $60 when all the old games were better in his opinion.

I've noticed this with a lot of commenters and Nintendo gamers in my classrooms while Xbox and Playstation games are always looking to the future. Though those two groups are often far too excited for sequels and just wait for them lol
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
In the case of Final Fantasy I don't blame OP's friend. The series has changed so much I don't even want to bother with it anymore.
 
C

Canucked

Member
I can't do random battles anymore. I can't go back to that. I loved it back in the day, but I avoid it now.

I just can't.
 
R

RMI

Banned
Lactose_Intolerant said:
gameplay wise it looks horrible to me.

To the OP, I think your friend could have worded it better than it not being like ff7 though.
Click to expand...

I don't know, if a new Final Fantasy Tactics game came out and it didn't look like the original, I think people would have a right to be dismissive of it. For a lot of people FF7 is the definitive FF game.
 
Sub_Level

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
RMI said:
They need to let go of the FF name.
Click to expand...

Why? The name is arbitrary. It means you need to have chocobos and certain names for spells in your game. Beyond that a game with the name FF can be whatever.
 
H

Hyrule Warrior

Member
Yeah, Final Fantasy 15 doesn't really appeal to me that much because it doesn't have what I grew up liking Final Fantasy for I think. I've moved on to series like Persona because they felt like they were delivering the kind of gameplay that I grew up loving about older Final Fantasy games.

I don't know what happened with the FF teams that made them think that turn based combat was something that needed to be changed and stripped to the point where it became so mindless that it wasn't even fun, rather than refined to something that requires more thought and strategy. I used to like the idea of ATB because I thought it added a level of tension, but instead I realized it's just a way of making it seem more like an action game, and they ended up limiting your choices because you had to do it faster than would be required to make a more strategic decision.

FF15 seems like it's doing away with all of that even more so than the FF13 games did.
 
L

leatherhat

Member
Cramoss said:
It looks different to those old FF games and I see why it may not be appealing to these type of gamers but horrible ? Come on man
Click to expand...

Yes, horrible. It's like they wanted to make kingdom hearts but replace the fun combat with "hold button" combat.
 
H

hatchx

Banned
Wait a second, I thought we unanimously agreed FF15 looks great? I think it looks great, it's the first FF game I've been interested in since 12.

Hasn't every Final Fantasy game deviated in style? I'm really surprised Final Fantasy fans are turned off by 15.
 
H

Holykael1

Banned
Sub_Level said:
Why? The name is arbitrary. It means you need to have chocobos and certain names for spells in your game. Beyond that a game with the name FF can be whatever.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that it is a successful and somewhat powerful brand. It would be brain dead to let it go.
 
R

RMI

Banned
Sub_Level said:
Why? The name is arbitrary. It means you need to have chocobos and certain names for spells in your game. Beyond that a game with the name FF can be whatever.
Click to expand...

All the more reason to let go of it. It's just baggage at this point.

Holykael1 said:
Not to mention that it is a successful and somewhat powerful brand. It would be brain dead to let it go.
Click to expand...

We'll see how long that continues for after the debacle that was the XIII series of games. They practically buried the brand this past generation.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
Canucked said:
I can't do random battles anymore. I can't go back to that. I loved it back in the day, but I avoid it now.

I just can't.
Click to expand...

I hear you. For me, playing Final Fantasy III, Dragon Quest VIII and Phantasy Star 2 to 4 within a time span of a couple of years, was just too much. It broke something inside me, and now I just can't do it, unless I'm replaying an old favorite. I don't accept that stuff for games released Today, anymore.
 
R

rpmurphy

Member
Has she played Bravely Default? There are still quite a lot of games out there that carry on the legacies of classic games. Mind you, most of those are smaller budget games.
 
K

Kuroyume

Banned
mechphree said:
I definitely think its good to take inspiration from older games, or try to recreate those same feelings from them. But to go as far as using archaic gameplay mechanics or dated graphics or plain bad ideas? No. Do you think we was gamers look at certain games to often with "nostalgia glasses"? Or do you feel game developers need to take MORE inspiration from older games when they create new ones?
Click to expand...

tumblr_mxntneLpMp1rzianao1_500.gif


First off, those ideas aren't bad ideas if people enjoyed them and still enjoy them. And I wonder why is it that certain IPs (like Mario and Zelda for instance) can get away with using the same formula whereas FF has to constantly evolve.

Gamers want games to be a certain way and there's nothing wrong with that. Your friend isn't obligated to enjoy FF15 (which does look like it sucks) and you're just going to have to live with that.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
I don't think being "archaic" is a good excuse to have to revamp the core formula from scratch. You can argue games like the original Devil May Cry are technically "archaic", but the third and fourth game of that series refined itself and stayed true to its core while being stellar action games. Meanwhile, DmC is an example of what happens when the game strays pretty far from it's roots, and while that doesn't mean it's a bad game it does mean it's a very different one that you can't blame people for not liking.

Same goes for Final Fantasy. Like it or not, FF7 (although personally I'd vouch a lot more for FF6 and FF9 as the series' top titles) was a game a lot of people liked and set a huge precedent for the genre. The series has changed heavily since then. I don't think people are opposed to different kind of games but if you have to revamp something to such extents on a regular basis, is it not better to just focus those chips on a new idea completely? Hell XV was supposed to be a spin-off to begin with, personally I think it looks dull right now.

I heavily miss the more "fairy-tale" angle of Final Fantasy. Even if the old battle systems weren't the absolute best, it doesn't mean they can't continue improving from those.
 
C

Coffee Dog

Banned
Random battles suck, but I would definitely take FFIV-VI over just about any JRPG released today. Sometimes the classics had it right.
 
H

Holykael1

Banned
RMI said:
All the more reason to let go of it. It's just baggage at this point.



We'll see how long that continues for after the debacle that was the XIII series of games. They practically buried the brand this past generation.
Click to expand...

It's not the juggernaut it was back in the ps1-ps2 days but if you believe the brand is "practically dead and buried" you are obviously delusional and drinking way too much of that Kool aid.
 
BasilZero

BasilZero

Member
Yes and no.

Nostalgia which makes us go back to the games we loved and cherished when we were younger.

No because there's so many games coming out and came out in the past few years that just keep making us go and be hyped for the future.


At least for me it is.

I've finished Final Fantasy 4 last week and will be playing Final Fantasy 5 - been doing a FF marathon. I cant wait for Final Fantasy 15!
 
I

IronicSonic

Member
platformmaster918 said:
I've noticed this with a lot of commenters and Nintendo gamers in my classrooms while Xbox and Playstation games are always looking to the future. Though those two groups are often far too excited for sequels and just wait for them lol
Click to expand...

If "looking to the future" means accept tendences like cinematic "online FPS" or things like that, fuck the future.

The concern es valid
 
P

Persona7

Banned
Not for me at least. I didn't find myself comparing Skyward Sword before it came out to Majora's Mask even though it's the best game in the series.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
RMI said:
We'll see how long that continues for after the debacle that was the XIII series of games. They practically buried the brand this past generation.
Click to expand...

Isn't FFXIV all the proof needed that the brand is still popular? The original bombed horribly, then they reworked it into a new version, and it's turned out to be quite successful for them. One of the very few recent pay to play MMO's to actually stick.
 
G

GECK

Member
hatchx said:
Joke post?


And to the OPs point, I would say no. Nostalgia is always a nice thing, but look at the sales of Destiny. Just look at them.
Click to expand...

Is your post a joke? You do realize the markets are different.

And FFXV does look horrible.
 
C

Christhor

Member
If someone is trying to sell random encounters to you as a good thing, there is no reason to listen to their opinion.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
I'm the opposite of nostalgia. I crave the newest gameplay, I.P's and graphics.

I still appreciate old games but I don't worship them. If I like it, it's because it's still fun today, not because "it's 240p. The way games were meant to be".
 
U

Upinsmoke

Member
I think alot of new games are too convulted, both in story and game play, especially in the FPS genre. I've been playing a load of games roughly a decade old lately and I've enjoyed them so much, there well put together, immersive, satisfying and not over complicated. I'm taking about FEAR and HL2 anyhow. Maybe that's nostalgia or maybe it's just recognising a better product.
 
R

RM8

Member
I'm not, I find recent entries in my favorite series to be as good or sometimes better than the "classics", including many examples that would get me lynched on GAF. That being said, if a series did a genre change, it's okay to state you prefer the previous style - as long as you don't say the new game is crap just for what it's NOT.
 
I

IdreamofHIME

Member
I really wish indies would get their heads out of the NES era. In 2014, I have access to almost any NES classic I want without having to play a crowdfunded facsimile of it.
 
L

LX_Theo

Banned
leatherhat said:
Yes, horrible. It's like they wanted to make kingdom hearts but replace the fun combat with "hold button" combat.
Click to expand...

So basically you ignored all the discussion of how it actually works? Yeah, you might be that nostalgia stuff the OP is talking about.
 
T

threelights

Member
I wonder if the people thinking FFXV looks awful is because they didn't read anything past the TGS interview of the holding button to attack

It's been confirmed multiple times now that it is nothing like we assumed.

Or maybe they are saying it looks visually bad (in which case they would just be wrong).

Anyway, the games you grew up playing will always be the best, that's because you don't have any cynicism, every game is new and every story is likable.

It's not to say new games can't be good, but older people will rarely (if ever) like new games as much as they like old ones.

Also, curious your friend mentioning FFVII, the one that started making the series completely different from past iterations.
 
M

mechphree

Member
Kuroyume said:
tumblr_mxntneLpMp1rzianao1_500.gif


First off, those ideas aren't bad ideas if people enjoyed them and still enjoy them. And I wonder why is it that certain IPs (like Mario and Zelda for instance) can get away with using the same formula whereas FF has to constantly evolve.

Gamers want games to be a certain way and there's nothing wrong with that. Your friend isn't obligated to enjoy FF15 (which does look like it sucks) and you're just going to have to live with that.
Click to expand...

I wasn't giving an opinion on a specific game, more so stating that should we use bad ideas just because they are old? I'm not sure mechanics such as having no save points between a hour long dungeon would be that great to the current gamer now. Or having to restart whole missions because theirs no check point system or a glitched out final boss.

I also never stated I thought FF15 would be great. I don't know how it's going to be, I just find it interesting we make snap judgements on something because it's not exactly identical to something else. Especially a something we haven't even played to render out a judgement.
 
B

Brashnir

Member
Christhor said:
If someone is trying to sell random encounters to you as a good thing, there is no reason to listen to their opinion.
Click to expand...

Random Encounters are a perfectly viable method of presenting obstacles and opportunities to a player in a game. A clever player can minimize or maximize their occurrence by smart play to get what they want out of a certain section of a game.

Dismissing them out of hand as you have comes across as coming from a complete lack of understanding of what makes a good game. They may not always be appropriate, and they may not appeal to every player out there, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with them from a fundamental game design standpoint.
 
A

Arc Christelle

Member
RMI said:
Agreed. It's perfectly okay to look at FF15 and decide it doesn't appeal to you based on your previous experience with good games in the franchise. That's not to say FF15 is going to be worse than those games, I have no idea, but it doesn't look like Final Fantasy IV or VI so I'm not getting excited about it as a FF game.

If anything, It's SE that are stuck in nostalgia mode. They need to let go of the FF name.
Click to expand...
Oh the irony.
Kuroyume said:
First off, those ideas aren't bad ideas if people enjoyed them and still enjoy them. And I wonder why is it that certain IPs (like Mario and Zelda for instance) can get away with using the same formula whereas FF has to constantly evolve.
Click to expand...
You never seen people discuss 3D World, NSMB, Windwaker, and Skyward Sword on this forum*?

Also pretty sure those games evolved as well.
 
W

wmlk

Member
It's funny because FFXV reminds me of PS1 FFs with modern sensibilities.

Random battles don't add anything at all to FF so I'll never understand that.
 
C

Celine

Member
Well, I don't blame your friend I jumped off the FF train after the PS1 games.

AS for "nostalgia goggles" the only thing I can say (because I'm a retrogamer) is that some games genuinely are as good as they were decades ago.
Those are called "classic".

I don't think FFVII is among them despite how I loved the game back in the nineties and how I think it is still an interesting experience (for its schizophrenic nature).
 
O

Obscured

Member
If it is part of an existing franchise I've noticed people are much less likely to judge it on its own merits. The typical complaints sound similar to your friend where it will be a discussion around what has deviated from the 'core' of the game. I've always wondered why devs/publishers don't try and make spin-offs of games when they want to try something new as opposed to sequels. Get the recognition of the IP without the baggage of having to so strictly adhere to the formula.
 
BouncyFrag

BouncyFrag

Member
I have found that I am enjoying gaming more ever since I started appreciate a game for what it is as opposed to what it isn't.
 
D

Dereck

Member
There are no rules. If Final Fantasy 15 was a racing game, I couldn't do anything about it. Obviously that's a joke, but it's real.

I know a person who continuously tells me that he doesn't like Smash Brothers anymore because none of them are like the N64 version. I used to give him hell about it, but recently I just decided to stop caring.

If a person decides that they aren't going to play a new game in a series because it deviates too much from older titles, that is their loss, or their gain. All that matters to me is if, I like the game. You're gonna have people that you know or encounter that are going to be wearing nostalgia goggles in reference to any type of form of media. I have to decided to stop spending energy on trying to persuade them otherwise.

My opinion on the subject, is that I like to remain open minded to things.
 
C

Christhor

Member
Brashnir said:
Random Encounters are a perfectly viable method of presenting obstacles and opportunities to a player in a game. A clever player can minimize or maximize their occurrence by smart play to get what they want out of a certain section of a game.

Dismissing them out of hand as you have comes across as coming from a complete lack of understanding of what makes a good game. They may not always be appropriate, and they may not appeal to every player out there, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with them from a fundamental game design standpoint.
Click to expand...

Nah, video games are a visual media. There's no reason not to have your enemies visible on the screen, before going into battles. All it does is pad out the playtime, or even annoy the player. I can understand them in tabletop RPGs, but not in console ones.
 
C

Celine

Member
Kuroyume said:
First off, those ideas aren't bad ideas if people enjoyed them and still enjoy them. And I wonder why is it that certain IPs (like Mario and Zelda for instance) can get away with using the same formula whereas FF has to constantly evolve.
Click to expand...
That's the problem with series that focus on character design and story.
Speaking for myself I find unlikely that I could care for Jpop characters and silly stories and dialogues.

The core mechanics in games like Mario and Zelda are robust and in them Nintendo injects new elements and levels.
 
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