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3 Arab/Muslim Americans were gunned down in Chapel Hill

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Cloudy

Banned
http://myfox8.com/2015/02/10/chapel-hill-police-investigating-triple-shooting/

According to twitter (who knows how accurate early reports are), this is being investigated as a hate crime and the shooter is in custody.

Looks like these are the victims:

B9itH97IAAArFon.jpg


Overnight, another police department news release said Craig Stephen Hicks, 46, of Chapel Hill was arrested and charged with 3 counts of first-degree murder. He is being held in the Durham County Jail, according to the news release. Bail information was not immediately available.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02...e-shot-dead-in-chapel.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
 

Cloudy

Banned
For some reason, the local cops are refusing to identify the shooter even though he is in custody. Is this normal?
 

potam

Banned
For some reason, the local cops are refusing to identify the shooter even though he is in custody. Is this normal?

I imagine it depends on a lot of things, such as age, and if they have other suspects they're still looking for.
 

Amir0x

Banned

Really. Since 2001, hate crimes against Arab Americans has literally skyrocketed. Up seventeenfold in the year immediately after 2001, and still has settled back down to nearly five times as much as reported prior to 2001. Regularly, Arab Americans are targeted for violent physical attacks, and a few per year are even killed.

But I guess, what? Since there are other problems that are worse, this one is less relevant or that Muslims who are frightened to be Muslim in this country should somehow buck up?
 

Terra

Member
Terrible. :(
Religious violence is everywhere now.

Seems like you read about beheadings and gunnings everyday.

Just STOP!
 
nope what?

it is scary to be a Muslim in the US.

The amount of Muslims killed in the US because they are Muslim is so infinitesimal that it is unmeasurable. It is as legitimate of a fear as is white people terrified of being murdered by black people because they are white.
 
Really. Since 2001, hate crimes against Arab Americans has literally skyrocketed. Up seventeenfold in the year immediately after 2001, and still has settled back down to nearly five times as much as reported prior to 2001. Regularly, Arab Americans are targeted for violent physical attacks, and a few per year are even killed.

So does a rise in crime equal day to day fear?

Do you know Muslims that tell you they are fearful for their safety?

I don't.

I do know a whole bunch that would rather live in the USA than the Middle East right now.
 
Really. Since 2001, hate crimes against Arab Americans has literally skyrocketed. Up seventeenfold in the year immediately after 2001, and still has settled back down to nearly five times as much as reported prior to 2001. Regularly, Arab Americans are targeted for violent physical attacks, and a few per year are even killed.

But I guess, what? Since there are other problems that are worse, this one is less relevant or that Muslims who are frightened to be Muslim in this country should somehow buck up?

my friend and i went to New York together . At JFK his passport was looked over for ages and he was searched way longer than any of us because his name was Mohammed and he had a beard. He had regular clothes on, speaks perfect English with an American accent (as he studied there and lived there for years).

It's not just the violence - it's the incredible discrimination that these guys have to go through every time they land on American soil.
 

thefit

Member
They were all shot in the head inside a condominium and the suspect turned himself in. It may just be a domestic issue.
 
The amount of Muslims killed in the US because they are Muslim is so infinitesimal that it is unmeasurable. It is as legitimate of a fear as is white people terrified of being murdered by black people because they are white.

It's not all about murder.

So does a rise in crime equal day to day fear?

Do you know Muslims that tell you they are fearful for their safety?

I don't.

I do know a whole bunch that would rather live in the USA than the Middle East right now.

I do. Not just fearful of safety, but discriminated against because of their name and outfits when they travel. People can be uneasy when traveling to the states because of stuff like this.

You also realise the Middle East isnt a country right? so which cities do these people live in that you mention?
 
They were all shot in the head inside a condominium and the suspect turned himself in. It may just be a domestic issue.

No no no, that doesn't fit the let's blame racist white American agenda we're going for here.

NEOGAF is hilarious. A muslim beheads someone in England everyone is all "let's not blame religion until we know the whole story". Muslim's are shot in America and everyone is all "damn racist Americans this must stop".

Hilarious.
 

Amir0x

Banned
The amount of Muslims killed in the US because they are Muslim is so infinitesimal that it is unmeasurable. It is as legitimate of a fear as is white people terrified of being murdered by black people because they are white.

It's not actually unmeasurable. It's completely measurable, and is in fact one of the many types of hate crimes tracked by the FBI alongside Sikh's, Jews, Catholics, Protestants and gender identity, etc. And because of that, we can measure that the problem has skyrocketed since 2001, and that hate crimes against Arabs is actually startlingly large compared to the actual total population of Muslims in the country.

Of course, it's quite easy to diminish huge problems as they exist from our comfy chairs wherein we don't face the daily scrutiny of irrational hate from bigoted fellow country men, but if you are a person of color or you are a Sikh who has heard shit being yelled at you just because you wear a turban, you know exactly how serious the problem is. This fear takes on all forms - from the fear of physical harm to the fear of humiliation. And it's a problem that grows the more we politicize this entire group of people through the irresponsible lens of terrorism.


So does a rise in crime equal day to day fear?

Do you know Muslims that tell you they are fearful for their safety?

I don't.

I do know a whole bunch that would rather live in the USA than the Middle East right now.

I have several Muslims friends, and depending on the story going on I have heard them express fear. For example, after the beheadings by the ISIS of those American captives my friend Muhammad shared concerns that he was going to be attacked walking the streets. He said it half-jokingly, half-serious... but it's the type of comment that, knowing him, was revealing a genuine deep seated fear.

And of course, you can watch any segment on this problem and see honest, everyday Muslims expressing genuine fear about the rising tide of hate toward that community.

But hey, if we diminish the problem, that's the exact same way we fix them. Trollface.gif
 

antonz

Member
Sad situation no matter what the outcome ends up being. Do not see why people have to rush to make any particular stance about it. What's gained?
 
It's not all about murder.



I do. Not just fearful of safety, but discriminated against because of their name and outfits when they travel. People can be uneasy when traveling to the states because of stuff like this.

You also realise the Middle East isnt a country right? so which cities do these people live in that you mention?

Seattle, LA and New York. Sure I have a friend that gets stopped every single time we go through security and he's made it into a joke. Is he afraid for his life? Nope. Would he rather go back home to Syria right now? Nope.

Keep guessing why people were murdered and assuming it was automatically a hate crime because of what they were wearing. That's as bad as profiling Muslims at the airport. Both ignorant.
 

Siegcram

Member
No no no, that doesn't fit the let's blame racist white American agenda we're going for here.

NEOGAF is hilarious. A muslim beheads someone in England everyone is all "let's not blame religion until we know the whole story". Muslim's are shot in America and everyone is all "damn racist Americans this must stop".

Hilarious.
Almost there. All that's missing is blaming the "hive mind".

This shit is fucked up regardless.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Seattle, LA and New York. Sure I have a friend that gets stopped every single time we go through security and he's made it into a joke. Is he afraid for his life? Nope. Would he rather go back home to Syria right now? Nope.

Keep guessing why people were murdered and assuming it was automatically a hate crime because of what they were wearing. That's as bad as profiling Muslims at the airport. Both ignorant.

I agree and make no definitive statement as to the nature of this specific crime (thus we should not jump to conclusions in each individual case, but make sure we are positive about its relation to hate), but if it was three people being shot for being Muslim I was wondering why not just call it a form of terrorism. It'd be a person trying to terrorize a community, right?
 

potam

Banned
I agree and make no definitive statement as to the nature of this specific crime (thus we should not jump to conclusions in each individual case, but make sure we are positive about its relation to hate), but if it was three people being shot for being Muslim I was wondering why not just call it a form of terrorism. It'd be a person trying to terrorize a community, right?

really bruv?

This is terrorism right as well as being a hate crime?

nope what?

it is scary to be a Muslim in the US.


ok technically not definitive statements, but come on man...
 
It's not actually unmeasurable. It's completely measurable, and is in fact one of the many types of hate crimes tracked by the FBI alongside Sikh's, Jews, Catholics, Protestants and gender identity, etc. And because of that, we can measure that the problem has skyrocketed since 2001, and that hate crimes against Arabs is actually startlingly large compared to the actual total population of Muslims in the country.

Of course, it's quite easy to diminish huge problems as they exist from our comfy chairs wherein we don't face the daily scrutiny of irrational hate from bigoted fellow country men, but if you are a person of color or you are a Sikh who has heard shit being yelled at you just because you wear a turban, you know exactly how serious the problem is. This fear takes on all forms - from the fear of physical harm to the fear of humiliation. And it's a problem that grows the more we politicize this entire group of people through the irresponsible lens of terrorism.




I have several Muslims friends, and depending on the story going on I have heard them express fear. For example, after the beheadings by the ISIS of those American captives my friend Muhammad shared concerns that he was going to be attacked walking the streets. He said it half-jokingly, half-serious... but it's the type of comment that, knowing him, was revealing a genuine deep seated fear.

And of course, you can watch any segment on this problem and see honest, everyday Muslims expressing genuine fear about the rising tide of hate toward that community.

But hey, if we diminish the problem, that's the exact same way we fix them. Trollface.gif

Your link amounts to disparate cases and numbers from a decade ago. Useless. As to your second point, I have plenty of Muslim friends myself. The idea of any of them actually fearing retaliation over an ISIS beheading is laughable.
 

Amir0x

Banned
really bruv?

Maybe English is not your first language but neither are definitive statements as to this specific case.

1 is an objective fact, it is scary to be Muslim in America and the statistics support that.
2 is a statement that if this case IS an example of a hate crime, then this should be terrorism.

Neither is making a definitive statement on the score, but discussing the hypothetical as expressed in the OP.
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
No no no, that doesn't fit the let's blame racist white American agenda we're going for here.

NEOGAF is hilarious. A muslim beheads someone in England everyone is all "let's not blame religion until we know the whole story". Muslim's are shot in America and everyone is all "damn racist Americans this must stop".

Hilarious.
What's sad is that you care about what people say in this thread more than you care about the three innocent people who were just murdered.
 

PopeReal

Member
No no no, that doesn't fit the let's blame racist white American agenda we're going for here.

NEOGAF is hilarious. A muslim beheads someone in England everyone is all "let's not blame religion until we know the whole story". Muslim's are shot in America and everyone is all "damn racist Americans this must stop".

Hilarious.

This is a dumb post and you should feel dumb for it.
 
Saw something a month ago or so ago how DUKE was pissed muslims had gotten the rights to say their prayers on campus through some intercom which everyone could hear(used to be they said their prayers without the intercom). When people complained they Muslims lost their intercom rights and I think even the rights they had for years before of even praying on campus whatsoever. Someone down there in NC can fill in more I guess.

Sure, Chapel Hill(UNC) and Duke are different universities but I bet a lot of rednecks are pissed off down there to the point they'd kill 3 muslims for being muslim because of the Duke outcry.
 
B9imHVeIUAEUTS3.jpg
B9imHVaIcAAc-4p.jpg

These 2 had just been married a month ago and the other person was the guys sister

Really sad...thoughts and prayers to their family
R.I.P
 

Amir0x

Banned
Your link amounts to disparate cases and numbers from a decade ago. Useless. As to your second point, I have plenty of Muslim friends myself. The idea of any of them actually fearing retaliation over an ISIS beheading is laughable.

First, the stuff discussed in my initial link goes up to 2009. I mean shit you don't even have to read it, just check the dated sources at the bottom. Second, you can just read this. And this is almost all just crimes against property or persons, usually of a violent nature. This doesn't really discuss all the other sorts of hate crimes in the spectrum.

Even a simple cursory glance can tell you the 2012 that the only religious group other than Islam that gets it worse is Judaism. And if you compare these statistics to their pre-2001 stats:

2000:
2001hatecrimegdlhd.png

2012:
2012hatecrimenpyg0.png


My oh my! What a jump! Surely, a problem of only the most miniscule proportions which we should ignore entirely or wholesale deny the genuine fears of many in a community because your friends are tough as shit. How quaint!

If the OP is correct and the crime was of a hate crime nature, I thought it was important to discuss the way we label such crimes. If someone targets and eviscerates members of a community, is their clear desire to strike terror into members of that community worthy of a terrorism distinction? If the OP is wrong and it's just a normal slaying, it's a tragedy and all we did is discuss a hypothetical serious problem in the exchange. I see no problem here if the worse we get out of this is a serious discussion as to growing problems in this country.
 

Arcia

Banned
*hate crime has just occurred against three Muslims*

GAF: "I don't see how its scary to be a Muslim in the US. Nope. No evidence at all."

I mean really, how much more insensitive can you be?
 
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