That would destroy the whole point of the controller in the first place, aka, playing PC specific games that have no controller support...with a controller.
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Latest Steam Controller design spotted in client beta?
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
That would destroy the whole point of the controller in the first place, aka, playing PC specific games that have no controller support...with a controller.
ashecitism
Member
I'm not sure I follow. Can you expand on this?
Refreshment.01
Member
Basically you want the Wii Remote with more advanced and refined technology.
In regards to Valve's controller, the thubstick is needed for movement because it makes sense. But what Valve should do is make parts of the controller modular. To explain myself, the thumb track sensor and the thumbstick should be able to be detached and switch sides as the user pleaces.
i have been thinking of modular thumbsticks and face buttons for years so i wonder how any of the big manufacturers haven't done so by now. Was thinking Nintendo would go for it with the U Gamepad since it makes sense to have modular inputs for a controller that might be more expensive, so replacing wear out sticks and buttons makes ton of sense.
ashecitism
Member
Valve did patent a modular controller years ago: http://gamerant.com/valve-console-controller-hold-137072/
Refreshment.01
Member
Well?
Where's our modular controller? From my point of view as a consumer, there's no point in them having a patent if they don't bring the product to market. On the contrary seems to me like potential patent leeching and that doesn't sit well with me XD
i have a ton of ideas for controllers, if i had some tech knowledge i would be having a field day coming with stuff up.
ashecitism
Member
They probably deemed it problematic and dropped it. Like what about all the modular components? You'd have to look out for them, how would the constant switching effect them and the controller itself etc? I'm just guessing here.
They never mentioned it officially anyways. Not even at Steam Dev Days.
They never mentioned it officially anyways. Not even at Steam Dev Days.
Pick up one of your current controllers and hold it in a comfortable fashion with your thumbs on the d-pad and face button areas. What direction are your thumbs pointing? For me, they do not point North; the left thumb points Northeast and the right thumb points Northwest.
It will be more comfortable to use those touchpads if the North-South axis is tilted so it is aligned with the natural direction of your thumb.
alexandros
Banned
The trackpads are absolutely necessary people, read the article. If Valve removes them the Steam Controller will be the same as a regular gamepad and as such useless for mouse and keyboard games.
I don't think people understand what this controller is meant to be for. It's not a simple replacement for a 360 controller. It's to make games like Civ5 and less controller friendly games more accessible without a mouse and keyboard. Why bother even making a controller that does the same old thing?
ashecitism
Member
ohhhhh
So if I move/extend my left thumb on the trackpad in the Northeast direction, that would be 'Up/Forward' and not if I move it in the North direction?
wouldn't this be confusing though?
But Valve totally want it to be a general purpose controller. It's named Steam Controller for a reason and not 'PC-only, not controller supported games' controller. To be compatible with the entire Steam library. They even demoed games like Dirt, Strider, Trine, Metro, Portal at CES and GDC.
Well, it's just an option in the control panel, so do whatever works best for you.
alexandros
Banned
This is why it is being designed to accomodate the full Steam library of games. I believe the latest revision with the analog stick is pretty close to the ideal solution.
As far as I know they are.
Or at least they were looking to it. Somebody probably has better info.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
If the stick has Microswitches, it'll be the greatest controller of all time.
ashecitism
Member
They are. Analog-digital. At least the previous version with the four button diamonds had it. The v1 didn't.
someone who was at GDC said:
alexandros
Banned
I do wonder how much it will cost. Valve has packed a lot of tech in it.
Then again I doubt Valve is looking to make too much profit from this controller. I don't think that's the point.
This is the biggest wrong that ever wronged in the history of wrong.
The ENTIRE purpose of this thing is to allow traditional keyboard and mouse games to run well on a controller. You can't do that with an analog stick. You need something that can replicate mouse movement. People who want a conventional console like controller have literally dozens of decent options already from Xbix and PS4 controllers to Logitech ones.
Removing the dpad is smart for similar reasons, there are plenty of controllers with traditional dpads but this now makes the Steam prototype flexible with a larger variety of games WITHOUT sacrificing its purpose of having the haptic feedback pads for traditional PC games.
ashecitism
Member
It's not even set in stone if the final will have a stick. This is Valve we're talking about lol
alexandros
Banned
I hope it does have the stick, sticks work great for movement.
Rodney McKay
Member
Haha, so true.
I was so excited for this thing when they first announced it, but as soon as they delayed it/brought it back to the drawing board I remembered "of yeah, this is Valve" and it immediately dropped off my radar. I'd have bought the original model if they'd decided to sell it, but now I don't know when I'll ever get my hands on one.
Assuming they EVER release the thing in one form or another I'll be there day one, but until then it's not really worth keeping interest in following.
MadScientist
Banned
I am looking forward to the release of the controller, but I fear it there will be few cases when it actually makes sense to use it. Everytime a game supports the 360 or XBO controller that will be the best option to use. If a game only supports mouse and keyboard, it has to be a somewhat slow game to be playable with this. It may also not depend on text input or keyboard shortcuts. MMOs, RTSes, MOBAs won't work properly (imo), which are genres that account for ~80% of PC only games.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I can see how the trackpad would be great for aiming, but not movement
Personally would like the analog stick where the left trackpad is, keep the right trackpad, then a d-pad where the analog stick currently is
Personally would like the analog stick where the left trackpad is, keep the right trackpad, then a d-pad where the analog stick currently is
I'd make the assumption that redesigning the first version was for the best, but also expected, as they'd already talked about this being the case for the whole project - machines, os and controllers all being iterative.
The real questions to be answered are whether we'll like the final version and whether they stick to their goal of having non-controller compatible PC games playable with their controller along with the trackpads approaching par with a mouse. Looking at all the current iterations is interesting but kind of pointless to some on lookers who don't even know why they are bothering and just want the same old analogue sticks - useless for many PC games. Ideally, this thing needs to be good enough at everything but that will always come with compromises. Will be interesting to see what the pros and cons of the final version are and how they move forward from there
MikeE21286
Member
Yup I was also thinking this.
vasametropolis
Member
This is what I'm looking for as well. Unless I'm missing something, it seems like the perfect idea. Asymmetrical controllers are not a new thing.
Idk. Playing games like civ v seems like it would be much more comfortable with two pads than with one. Having a second one that has a different resolution seems too important to drop for pointy click games.
alexandros
Banned
Final steam controller leaked
So clever.
Valve has a lot of expensive CNC/3D printing stuff in their own hardware R&D shop.
"weaning users from stick to trackpad"
What? Since when have users EVER decided changing control schemes they're familiar with? That's silly IMO
It's about options. Everyone clamoring for an analog stick for movement is missing the point. You can use existing controllers on the PC, so just stick with what you like already. The dual trackpad setup has the potential to be something special if they can get developers to utilize all the little nuances it has to it. It has more potential than a stick.
Too bad they are so quiet about all of this. Haven't heard much on the controller, the OS, or steamboxes in general in quite some time.
Refreshment.01
Member
Hold on a second, why would you be constantly switching? You just set up the controller the way you like it and spend most of the time in that configuration. It also solves the righty/lefty problem withouth the need for the controller to be symmetric.
Also people suggesting that Valve should take out the trackpads reminds me how some gamers are completely against the slightest change, even when is for the better. Consoles are still "aiming" with a thumbstick because how resistant to new inputs we tend to be.
It would be disappointing if the only reason that analog stick there is to be a crutch and thus ultimately be vestigial while the D-Pad would have longer relevance for one reason or another. Though I guess this thread's highlighting just why they feel they have to do that!
exmachina64
Banned
I may be a month late, but Steam Machines and Steam OS killed its chances already!
Edit: The eternal questions:
1. Will an iteration of this controller, Steam OS, and a "Valve-approved" Steam Machine ever be released and at the same time?
2. Will Valve dump everything that makes this controller unique from the 360/X1 controller before release? We can be reasonably certain the modular controller idea will never see the light of day.
3. Will "Valve Time" delay this project to the point that it has no relevance to its original cause (the Microsoft lockdown/Windows 8 fears)?
ashecitism
Member
I probably wouldn't, but what about other people who like to toy around? It could be an issue. But again, I'm just guessing. Don't think Valve will ever properly talk about it.
alexandros
Banned
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Maybe. That is indeed something that worries me.
It's a damp shame that Valve continues to drag its heels with the Steam Machines project. With Windows 8 being the huge flop it was expected to be and next gen consoles being so weak and devoid of any revolutionary features, Valve had a big window of opportunity to really put the hurt on Microsoft and Sony. That window is closing the closer we get to Windows 9 and a sizeable next gen console userbase. The next wave of Steam Machines had better be perfect.
Candescence
Member
Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't mind if they keep the analog stick. The left trackpad can easily be used as a d-pad anyway, and is probably better for it than the 'd-pad' from the previous iteration. Just keep both trackpads and the buttons on the back of the controller, and I will be a happy camper.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Ill be sticking to my 360 with flippy dpad till someone puts out a wireless receiver for the Xbox one pad.
Its a little frustrating how many posters appear to be unaware that there are entire genres on PC/Steam other than AAA console ports. I am quite interested on how this will work for strategy games and isometric rpgs. The trackpads are a requirement for making those work so I will be happy regardless of anything else.
Fahrenheit
Banned
Well we already have a input device for them, KB&M.
Astral/H3X
Member
The point is a controller that can play those. They are aware that there are existing control methods for all currently existing games.
They want people who sit on couches and refuse to use KB+M to at least experiment with something other than CoD and AssCreed, to dabble in RTS games and the like.
It's a noble experiment. It benefits developers who focus on such games and it improves the sophistication of gamers. It might not succeed, but there's no harm in trying.