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Itagaki is pretty pissed about Lisa's recent change in DOA
- Thread starter Nightbird
- Start date
Mr. Smiley
Member
I'm fully aware of that. But TN is free to do whatever they want with their own characters. We don't know the reason they decided to make her slightly lighter, but if they had a personal preference to make her look different, then that's their choice. If that reason was to give her a more 'traditional' look of what they believed looks like the average Latina woman, then there's nothing wrong with that.
ShinMaruku
Member
Are you sure there has never been defense of Itagaki on Neogaf? I have seen a bit.
It's not so much that DOA5> DOA4 is why I write him off, he has been sniping the game all the time, he was been sounding very bitter. And nobody found it a bit off that he was saying it's sad they aged his daughters?
There is nothing to really debate on this topic because changes like this are to be expected. The industry has never been progressive on this end, especially in Japan.
If there is something to debate, it's Itagaki needs to let it go. He used a very easy thing to slag off the game and he should be called out for it.
Guess he means not black American? People tend to lump all the people from all shades of white to black as "Latin","Spanish",latino, hispanic, etc.
_Final_Phoenix_
Member
Okay, little story time.
I'm Punjabi. My parent's emigrated from India to Canada long before I was born, but I have never been to India myself. I also grew up in a predominantly Punjabi city. I always remember hearing growing up that, I and everyone else are lucky to be Punjabi since our skin is fairer and lighter, and Bollywood films sure as hell push that too. Every big Indian celebrity or movie star is light skinned, and all darker skinned actors are always delegated to comic relief, villains or extras, and everyone who wants to be successful is compelled to whiten their skin to be considered beautiful enough to be a star. I haven't watched any Bollywood films in years, but from what I remember, the only dark skinned actor of note was a man called Johnny Lever, who's only ever a comic relief/clown actor with unimportant plot relevancy.
What's extra fucked up is that a lot of these celebrities advocate and advertise skin products by L'oreal and crap that lighten and whiten your skin, because they quite openly and shamelessly push the "dark skin is hideous" angle. And (according to what I've heard) people who defend this often refer to darker skinned people as "dusky", to try and remove the race/skin colour issue, because, you know, that's all it takes for people to stop deeming it offensive.
I have no idea how common it is or if people in India pushed back on this shit or not, but seeing the OP made me think of this shit.
It may not be as obvious for most people here, since the skin issue is more easily separated by white or black or brown, but the issue being brought up is something that strikes a chord for people who discriminated on the grounds of skin colour by people of the same race. And speaking as a brown guy who's heard shit talked about my GF because she has darker skin, this is incredibly upsetting.
I'm Punjabi. My parent's emigrated from India to Canada long before I was born, but I have never been to India myself. I also grew up in a predominantly Punjabi city. I always remember hearing growing up that, I and everyone else are lucky to be Punjabi since our skin is fairer and lighter, and Bollywood films sure as hell push that too. Every big Indian celebrity or movie star is light skinned, and all darker skinned actors are always delegated to comic relief, villains or extras, and everyone who wants to be successful is compelled to whiten their skin to be considered beautiful enough to be a star. I haven't watched any Bollywood films in years, but from what I remember, the only dark skinned actor of note was a man called Johnny Lever, who's only ever a comic relief/clown actor with unimportant plot relevancy.
What's extra fucked up is that a lot of these celebrities advocate and advertise skin products by L'oreal and crap that lighten and whiten your skin, because they quite openly and shamelessly push the "dark skin is hideous" angle. And (according to what I've heard) people who defend this often refer to darker skinned people as "dusky", to try and remove the race/skin colour issue, because, you know, that's all it takes for people to stop deeming it offensive.
I have no idea how common it is or if people in India pushed back on this shit or not, but seeing the OP made me think of this shit.
It may not be as obvious for most people here, since the skin issue is more easily separated by white or black or brown, but the issue being brought up is something that strikes a chord for people who discriminated on the grounds of skin colour by people of the same race. And speaking as a brown guy who's heard shit talked about my GF because she has darker skin, this is incredibly upsetting.
No, I'm not sure there has never been a defense force for Itagaki. There's a defense force for pretty much everyone and everything it seems. I never claimed there wasn't though, so I'm not sure what your point there is. Most people in this thread however, whether they agree with Itagaki or not, are primarily discussing the topic of Lisa and the changes to her skin colour. You however aren't. Your posts are all focused on Itagaki himself... or finding any fans of his "more disturbing" than the topic being discussed.
Now don't get me wrong. I seriously doubt that if Itagaki were on good terms with Team Ninja that he'd be making as much of a fuss over this.. but that sort of call out requires like one line of one post. You're 20+ posts in still focused on "he's just bitter, his games sucked". Regardless of why he's brought the topic up, it is a topic that is very much worth discussing. I wouldn't care if Yu Suzuki was the saltiest person on the planet... if he wants to call out AM2 over what they did to Vanessa, that would only be a good thing, as shit like that simply shouldn't be happening today. "It's to be expected" is quite frankly a fucking awful excuse to accept something like this. You're basically saying that if something terrible is the norm, it's cool for it to stay that way, and nobody should bother to talk about it. I'm sure that would have helped correct many problems throughout history...
I do think the age comment was pretty weird, but that's kinda that's not really what this topic/thread is about. If you would like to create another thread to discuss that, then I'll see you there. That being said though, in such a thread I would be complaining far more about the design and implications of Marie Rose rather than the arbitrary number assigned to a character's age.
Im actually glad he expressed this. I always thought that Japanese designers always played by stereotypes and never really tries to fulfill their game worlds with diversity of races in them. Particularly the reason why iam so hype about splatoon is that I can create them to look like me, instead of playing bloodbounre(which I love) and trying to make my character look "naturally" black lol
Gambit 1138
Banned
I agree with Itagaki. Lisa should clearly be a black woman. It's a really boneheaded decision to try and make her super light to the point where she can be mistaken as white.
R_thanatos
Member
She isn't
Who the heck play DOA5 can mistake lisa as white ?
i'm serious. There is like , nothing in the damn game that can make her seems even remotely as white. her skin tone is obvious. Itagaki original point is void.
One can argue that her skin was changed a little ..but it's nothing drastic that can't be explained by the different lightning , or just part of the overall small change everyone in the cast had in DOA5 ( from their hair , to their face ).
But on that aspect ? Nope. i can make a dozen of screenshots on every stage of the game and no way someone will mistake her as white...
Lisa says stupid random badly mangled english(which means you are American, HA HA HA) and is classified officially as "American". Its obvious that Itagaki designed her as a Black American. She's not latino, and there has never once been a latino in DOA to begin with.
She only does wrestling and named herself that because Japanese confuse all types of national wrestling, and Americans 'fighting style' is apparently wrestling as shown by Tina and her dad.
There's nothing else to it.
She only does wrestling and named herself that because Japanese confuse all types of national wrestling, and Americans 'fighting style' is apparently wrestling as shown by Tina and her dad.
There's nothing else to it.
DR2K
Banned
Itagaki and co purposely made Lisa ambiguous. She was neither African nor Latina. She was just the colored one.
In DOA5 characters were given very specific facial features that are much closer to their race/ethnicity. Everyone got skin color alterations. Some characters even got darker.
Lisa got slightly lighter skin, but more recognizable features. In my opinion she looks more like a real African American in DOA5 than any other version of her. What happened with Vanessa in VF5 is an extreme that completely altered the way the character looked even beyond skin color.
In DOA5 characters were given very specific facial features that are much closer to their race/ethnicity. Everyone got skin color alterations. Some characters even got darker.
Lisa got slightly lighter skin, but more recognizable features. In my opinion she looks more like a real African American in DOA5 than any other version of her. What happened with Vanessa in VF5 is an extreme that completely altered the way the character looked even beyond skin color.
Perfect
Gambit 1138
Banned
Haven't played it (I don't play non-Itagki DOA entries) but in the picture in the op she looks very white
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Itagaki literally said she's Latina on his Facebook. It's earlier in the thread, I can't be bothered to dig it up.
This is a good comment. When they moved away from the barbie doll look, suddenly they had to make a decision with Lisa and her features, because she could no longer simply have the same face as the rest of the girls and completely different skin. She would either be african featured with dark skin or hispanic featured with lighter skin, or a mix. But it had to be something new. (All the girls got new faces.) As it turned out, I think they did very well with her, and I don't believe her skin is that much lighter anyway. However I don't believe they made her particularly african looking, I think they went strongly towards the more hispanic look. That was their call, and that's fine - I think she looks fantastic.
Having played DoA5 since 2011, that picture is almost certainly manipulated. She just doesn't look like that in the game.
silvermember
Banned
I hoped by now ppl will release Hispanic is an ethnicity not race, but I was wrong.
Basketball
Member
it's just the lighting .... She's still Lisa
He never once said anything about latino backstory or anything even similar to that when he was making DOA 4 or afterward. But a random facebook post is suppose to represent that? Well, he got me there.
It seems like he's just a hack saying shit about his old franchise he has nothing to do with anymore. Man needs to cool down a bit cause whenever he rants like this he sounds really salty. Its time he got over that.
For as mean as Kamiya can be, he doesn't freak out like that about Capcom
SMH. Vanessa got that Michael Jackson skin kit and went to work....
Mr. Pointy
Member
I thought Lisa was Afro Hispanic, like Christie from Tekken.
Ok this is getting really disturbing like this fictional character must be this because! No offense but Lisa doesnt look anything like a black person. She literally looks like a really barbi doll (like most of the cast). Sure they all look better this time around but you know what I mean.
She looks really close to say J Lo, her alt persona is "La Mariposa" and Itagaki states she is Latina. To me in my humble opinion looks like a white chick with a tan. Nothing to go crazy about.
Does Afro Hispanic mean Brazilian? Cause that's why Christie is, she's brazilian. Not American in any sense. The black person of america is pretty clear cut
I have to be honest and say I had no idea that race and ethnicity were considered to be different things at all. I'm European so I rarely hear the term 'ethnicity' or 'ethnic'. I also rarely hear the word Hispanic outside of Americans using it, but I saw it used in this conversation.
The fact that it pisses him off that Ayane is no longer the pervy, cringe-inducing age of 15 years old any more is really incredible. Makes me laugh at him, the sad old man.
Rekki-Maru
Banned
you'll need to go back farther (DOAXBV).The only thing not known about Lisa when they were making DOA4, was her fighting style.
There are black people all over Central/South America and they arent really called "Afro-Latino" or such. Thats like a USA thing. If you are white/black/tan whatever in those places, you are Latino or just say what country you are from. (From Ecuador = Ecuadorian - white/black part is irrelevant)
Hispanic: Someone is from or descended from Spain or a formerly Spain-controlled country.
Latino: Someone is from or descended from Latin America
It's not cool to call any innocent person that. That title can ruin a person's life and it's not fair to call them that if they aren't guilty of anything.
DR2K
Banned
She doesn't NEED to be anything. Being African American is not uniform and comes in tons of shades.
Lucia Libre/capoeira doesn't make Lisa Hispanic. Half the cast has fighting styles not associated with their ethnicity. Zack has a Taiwanese fighting style for example.
NSFW. In my opinion she looks African American. From her hair, skin tone, and facial structure.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/089/2/7/lisa_13_v1_by_lord_honk-d7caoty.jpg
Seriously, 100% agreed. I felt similarly about Robin post the time skip in One Piece. I was like, seriously?
Mr. Pointy
Member
This. My impression is that Lisa was South American of African descent, because of the whole La Mariposa thing. The closest fighting game analogue I can think of is Christie Monteiro.
Also, I distinctly remember that the girls could tan in DOAXBV. Is that how dark Lisa was in that game?
Also, can we compare DOA5 Lisa to DOA4 La Mariposa?
I wasn't a fan of Sega doing a Beyonce to Vanessa in VF5, but I'm curious about whether the skin tone change in DOA is due to the different graphical style, or TN really did fuck about with the contrast slider.
I agree with the bold. Doesnt bother me either way. All out views are subjective at this point. She looks black to you, she looks Latin to some and white to me. I dont think people should be working themselves over that they think she is, thats my point.
In Mexico we do say Afro-Mexican, but that might be because they're a very small minority?
Quoting myself from a few pages ago about this.
Here, I made a comparison. Left is her canon colors according to the manga, right is what Toei Animation did with her prior to the Timeskip. You might've noticed that Robin wasnt the only one who changed tones in the anime after the timeskip. Toei had colored many characters with various shades prior to the timeskip but then made them closer to the manga colorings after the timeskip.
chaobreaker
Member
It came from 4chan. There's a small population of anons with a thing for dark skinned anime girls. I suspect this image spawned from a thread on /a/.
California Gold is from a hentai doujin.
R_thanatos
Member
The picture on the OP is misleading, fake, nonsense, you name it.
See here
For an actual comparaison
They've definitely been making her lighter. I thought she was black originally as well.
I mean, seriously, we got the guy who brought her into existence telling you that she was meant to be dark skinned. Why is this being debated?
That's a bad comparison pic. Those shots looked cherry picked to be under conditions and quality that make them look as similar as possible if you ask me. I can definitely see a difference in skin ton in other mediums.
I mean, seriously, we got the guy who brought her into existence telling you that she was meant to be dark skinned. Why is this being debated?
That's a bad comparison pic. Those shots looked cherry picked to be under conditions and quality that make them look as similar as possible if you ask me. I can definitely see a difference in skin ton in other mediums.
DXLelouch153
Banned
looks more like a tan then having black skin color
like she was in those tanning booths
like she was in those tanning booths
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
am I going to have to start slapping "JOKE" labels on everything
and to think you'd lump me in with "GAF"... :mjcry:
She looks tanned now. But before, her skin was naturally dark brown.
Comparing in game images, i really don't see the issue. It looks like almost the same shade of brown, but with more of a shine to it.
that's a good comparison pic.
Lmaoing at The OkinawanThis man needs to lean that there are many shades of delicious brown skin. 90% of the females I create in games have brown skin soo many options all amazing!
GOAT
poopninjamvc3mk
I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone did after the Walking Dead Clemtine thread I seen on here and gfaqs lol. Then you got the whole random dude that comes and says I thought she was ganguro sometimes serious/sometimes sarcastic
.On topic she did get a smidge lighter but not as heartbreaking VF5 Vanessa which I wish we could answered on why that happened someday. I still don't feel right looking at VF5 Vanessa to this Day
The Spoony Hou
Member
Japanese designers seem have some... preconceptions about skin color.
To illustrate the point, here is Cia, one of the main villains of Hyrule Warriors:
She is also the one with the most questionable design - and not because she is The Seductress, but because storywise she was corrupted by evil forces, and her aspect before, as a good girl, was:
Oh boy.
Looks to me like she just got a tan. Why would being evil give you a tan, I don't know, but she probably didn't see much sun in her temple or wherever.
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