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[Terrell]

Who is 'defending the industry' here? Nobody is defending the embarrassing glut of awful games on mobile. Nobody is saying we love the mobile industry as a whole. It's quite possible to admit that it's a cesspool but still roll your eyes when joe gamer declares all mobile games to be f2p time wasters. The practices of dedicated, hardworking premium indie app makers are not the same practices as the f2p clone factory business. Irrationally hate all you like, we just don't want the shit posting on neogaf anymore. And judging by the ammount of bans in this thread, neither do the mods and admins.

Then perhaps there needs to be some even-handed consideration as it relates to all topics. I don't see a point in singling out one aspect of hyperbolic/generalized posting as being truly beneficial, in that regard. No one's mind is going to be changed. "Mobile gaming is shit" unfortunately becomes no more or less true for that person just because a few games exist that don't adhere to that belief. Perhaps if it weren't passed over as innocuous truth to generalize in other topics, it wouldn't be considered acceptable in this one, either.

You're never going to be able to put an end to a generalization by holding up a few drops of water in a desert to say it's not bone-dry. Everyone else in that desert is going to look at you like you're being a contrarian. Sorry, that is what it is.

It's like saying that people should stop making generalizations about the inadequate diversity in games characters just because Jade from Beyond Good and Evil and a handful of others exist. People are still going to generalize on the subject for the exact same reason. That's not to say that they're good forms of discourse, but some people can't communicate their frustrations in any better way, primarily because the topic frustrates them.

People are getting banned in what is intended to be a serious discussion on the subject of generalizing the state of mobile gaming for making the same generalizations to be "clever", smarmy and glib as a means to derail the discussion, not necessarily for the generalizations themselves.

But until the industry changes, the generalizations will never disappear, so it's just time to accept that something needs to change before people are willing to swallow that pill, cuz right now it's so bitter that they can't.

So the best thing anyone can do is just look past such generalizations. Standing up against them is a defence of the industry, unfortunately, because it's making excuses for why someone can't hold an overall negative opinion of an overall negative business, which gets everyone involved nowhere.

 

[The Silver]

Chaos Rings 1 and 2 is amazing and there are a ton of other great games too. Think there is just too much crap to sift through.

I wish games like this weren't an exception, I want mobile to be comparable to the quality output of the DS/3DS.

All these Japanese companies flocking to moblile and yet they aren't bringing their vast experience with handheld games with them. And I get it, it's a different market, far easier to justify making some F2P/IAP/stamina bar game than put in the effort for something like Radiant Historia and have it bomb. It's such a damn shame IMO.

And the problem with no buttons will be ever-present. You could never take a game like Type-0 and drop into mobile as is, you need to make serious gameplay concessions to have that work with touch controls.

 

[Haunted]

I'd like for mobile games to be good. But the truth is 95%+ of mobile games *ARE* shit.

With the amount of mobile games in the various app stores, the "5%" come out to more games than the console libraries have in total.

So no, it's more like 99%+ of mobile games are shit - and that still means that there are enough worthwhile experiences on mobile to make it worth checking out and considering.

 

[Game Guru]

Konami disagrees with you, as does the majority of Japan's publishers. And they're also the most eager to join in on the worst practices in the mobile gaming industry.

----

The truth of the matter is that the reason that discussions about mobile degrade into shitposting is because of where the market grew from. When it first started, F2P and IAP titles didn't really exist. And the market was infinitely smaller then by comparison with a limited vector of growth.

The simple truth is that the market really became a big deal BECAUSE of the shitty "Skinner Box" monetization model and shameless cloning, as it's a cheap and easy way to make the most money in the quickest amount of time. That's what the market grew out of. You can look at the drop in the ocean of games that don't follow this principle, but it doesn't make it any less of a drop in the ocean. And that drop gets smaller and smaller every month.

It'd be like if console gaming started under the principles of carving out content from a full game to sell as DLC. People can't stand that practice now as it is, but could you imagine if that was the primary business model of console gaming? People would be saying console gaming is shit left, right and centre. But there are still enough games and publishers not engaging in this revolting practice (or retreating from it after public backlash) that we can still love console gaming.

But mobile gaming? At this point, no amount of outrage or "voting with your wallet" of purchasing of non-Skinner Box truly original games will turn the tide. We will never be able to make that better until there's a full collapse of the market for that business model, which is unfortunately a long way away, given that such games are terribly inexpensive to produce.

So when people say "mobile gaming is shit", they're expressing their displeasure with 95% or more of that industry and its business practices. You can hold up that 5% or less as some beacon of hope, but you're bringing a water balloon to put out a raging inferno.

And why shouldn't they be upset at that 95% or more of that industry's output, and why should people have to tiptoe around it so someone's feelings don't get hurt because 5% or less of the content isn't shit? "Fuck DLC" is a regular refrain on this board, but people don't get too twisted up about that, because everyone knows where such a refrain comes from and lets it go, despite there being more examples of quality DLC than there is of quality mobile games. Why should mobile gaming somehow get special treatment when it comes to how people express their dissatisfaction with an entire industry?

If there are mobile game developers/publishers reading this, please take this to heart: you want people to stop calling the games you work on "shit"? Do whatever it takes to clean up the shitty business practices of your industry, because it helps no one to just let it continue to happen. It's your industry, so the perception of every product in it is yours to defend. The angry consumers saying these things have NO power to change them, so lashing out is entirely expected.

Mobile gaming fans, this is for you: take a deep breath. People are saying mean things about the industry you love, yes, but if you want it to stop, why would you go about trying to change someone's mind with the smallest possible sample of content possible? Even YOU know what the overwhelming majority of the mobile gaming industry is doing and you probably don't like it much, either. But defending that industry isn't helping anything. That small sample of games does not invalidate an entire industry practice, nor does it put to bed any of our worst fears about what will become of the industry or the games we love that are migrating towards it. So if your hope is to stop the mobile game hate, I'm sorry to say that the industry you love continuing to take a hot deuce all over it will continue to make that nearly impossible.

This is an excellent post... I mean, yes, there are excellent mobile games, but you need to understand what's happening from the long-time console fan's point of view. We are people who grew up with companies like Sega and Capcom and Konami. Over 20 years of history and influence in the console and handheld gaming defined by Japan essentially, all now focused not merely on mobile gaming, but the worst aspects of mobile gaming by focusing on the Skinner Box monetization model that mobile is best known for. The appeal of mobile and specifically the Skinner Box monetization model has become so huge and all encompassing in Japan that even Nintendo is going to make mobile games. I mean, it's not enough to merely see one of your favorite franchises die, but we today have to watch the shambling corpses of our favorite franchises try to con mobile gamers out of their money like they were a casino, while games we really truly want like Mega Man and Castlevania have to have new coats of paint as spiritual successors from smaller teams headed by the very people who made those franchises popular in the first place, and to top it off have to be funded by the very people who love to play those games to even prove there is a market for them.

The sort of crap that most, but not all, large publishers do in regards to not just AAA console gaming, but also F2P mobile gaming is exactly why I am thankful and grateful for the indie renaissance and crowdfunding. Be it PC, console, handheld, or mobile, invariably I personally find most of the best games on these platforms end up being made by the independent and small developers and publishers.

 

[Terrell]

The sort of crap that most, but not all, large publishers do in regards to not just AAA console gaming, but also F2P mobile gaming is exactly why I am thankful and grateful for the indie renaissance and crowdfunding. Be it PC, console, handheld, or mobile, invariably I personally find most of the best games on these platforms end up being made by the independent and small developers and publishers.

You and I seem to be on the same page, more often than not. I think our only disagreement has been on the value of IP in that other thread. But regardless...

I think another thing to mention is that several of the games that are aren't examples of the disastrous mobile industry practices are also available on other gaming platforms, because unlike mobile, console and PC gamers are more likely to pay a higher price once for a quality product, mostly because all of these awful practices in the mobile scene turn people away to never look at it again, which only compounds the generalization that "mobile is shit". As far as those gamers are concerned, the industry had its chance to assure them it wasn't and failed miserably. And sales numbers of such multi-platform indie games seems to back up that statement.

 

[More_Badass]

Then perhaps there needs to be some even-handed consideration as it relates to all topics. I don't see a point in singling out one aspect of hyperbolic/generalized posting as being truly beneficial, in that regard. No one's mind is going to be changed. "Mobile gaming is shit" unfortunately becomes no more or less true for that person just because a few games exist that don't adhere to that belief. Perhaps if it weren't passed over as innocuous truth to generalize in other topics, it wouldn't be considered acceptable in this one, either.

You're never going to be able to put an end to a generalization by holding up a few drops of water in a desert to say it's not bone-dry. Everyone else in that desert is going to look at you like you're being a contrarian. Sorry, that is what it is.

It's like saying that people should stop making generalizations about the inadequate diversity in games characters just because Jade from Beyond Good and Evil and a handful of others exist. People are still going to generalize on the subject for the exact same reason. That's not to say that they're good forms of discourse, but some people can't communicate their frustrations in any better way, primarily because the topic frustrates them.

People are getting banned in what is intended to be a serious discussion on the subject of generalizing the state of mobile gaming for making the same generalizations to be "clever", smarmy and glib as a means to derail the discussion, not necessarily for the generalizations themselves.

But until the industry changes, the generalizations will never disappear, so it's just time to accept that something needs to change before people are willing to swallow that pill, cuz right now it's so bitter that they can't.

So the best thing anyone can do is just look past such generalizations. Standing up against them is a defence of the industry, unfortunately, because it's making excuses for why someone can't hold an overall negative opinion of an overall negative business, which gets everyone involved nowhere.

1) People got banned for drive-by shitposting

2) PC gaming has practically the same ratio of cheap, free, shallow, etc. games to paid quality AAA and indie games. Mobile doesn't have curated storefronts like PC does; it's easy to forget that PC gaming is more than just Steam or Humble. More Ludum Dare games came out 2014 alone than the entire Steam library since its creation, and that's not including the endless amount of flash games and other game jams and freeware games. PC gaming as a whole, good games are drops of water in an desert of free stuff, the difference being there are storefronts that focus on and bring those games to the forefront so you can easily ignore everything else

Without those stores, you'd have to dig through 4,000+ flash games and free games to find the 250 paid Steam games that released in April

I'll be the first to say mobile has a ton of issues, the sheer volume and the lack of curation being one of the most critical. When the entire library of software for a platform is crammed onto a single store, discovery is near impossible. The good games get easily buried by shit and clones and poorly-made stuff.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

For me are shit because the controls.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

For me are shit because the controls.

It takes some courage to reply with an umbrella term that has been discussed for the past 12 pages and tens of people got banned in the first 2 pages >__>

Without those stores, you'd have to dig through 4,000+ flash games and free games to find the 250 paid Steam games that released in April

I'll be the first to say mobile has a ton of issues, the sheer volume and the lack of curation being one of the most critical. When the entire library of software for a platform is crammed onto a single store, discovery is near impossible. The good games get easily buried by shit and clones and poorly-made stuff.

Agreed.

 

[Game Guru]

1) People got banned for drive-by shitposting

2) PC gaming has practically the same ratio of cheap, free, shallow, etc. games to paid quality AAA and indie games. Mobile doesn't have curated storefronts like PC does; it's easy to forget that PC gaming is more than just Steam or Humble. More Ludum Dare games came out 2014 alone than the entire Steam library since its creation, and that's not including the endless amount of flash games and other game jams and freeware games. PC gaming as a whole, good games are drops of water in an desert of free stuff, the difference being there are storefronts that focus on and bring those games to the forefront so you can easily ignore everything else

Without those stores, you'd have to dig through 4,000+ flash games and free games to find the 250 paid Steam games that released in April

I'll be the first to say mobile has a ton of issues, the sheer volume and the lack of curation being one of the most critical. When the entire library of software for a platform is crammed onto a single store, discovery is near impossible. The good games get easily buried by shit and clones and poorly-made stuff.

To be fair, curation is an issue that Apple and Google as platform providers and thus equivalent to first-parties need to solve if they want to have a gaming platform worth buying games on. Pre-Crash console gaming suffered the same issue, but Nintendo with the NES made sure that console gaming would have a minimum standard. While PC is more open, digital stores like Steam, GOG, and Humble do ensure a minimum standard as well. At the very least, Apple seems to be trying to address it and they deserve kudos for that even if it might be too late.

 

[RecursiveFault]

2) PC gaming has practically the same ratio of cheap, free, shallow, etc. games to paid quality AAA and indie games. Mobile doesn't have curated storefronts like PC does; it's easy to forget that PC gaming is more than just Steam or Humble. More Ludum Dare games came out 2014 alone than the entire Steam library since its creation, and that's not including the endless amount of flash games and other game jams and freeware games. PC gaming as a whole, good games are drops of water in an desert of free stuff, the difference being there are storefronts that focus on and bring those games to the forefront so you can easily ignore everything else

Without those stores, you'd have to dig through 4,000+ flash games and free games to find the 250 paid Steam games that released in April

I'll be the first to say mobile has a ton of issues, the sheer volume and the lack of curation being one of the most critical. When the entire library of software for a platform is crammed onto a single store, discovery is near impossible. The good games get easily buried by shit and clones and poorly-made stuff.

A GOG or Steam that puts up checks for determining which mobile games are sold, would do wonders.

 

[SeanTSC]

As to your more qualitative analysis, I definitely agree that many mobile games have business plans I don't particularly like, but then, I feel the same about many console games, too. The console market has crushed its mid tier development and mid tier pricing; game prices are still $60 but now with microtransactions and DLC and season passes and so forth, to boot.

Many criticisms of mobile gamers seem to focus on "whales," which are generally defined as anyone spending more than $100 on a game. By that measure, most console gamers can be considered whales.

Not all games are 60 dollars. There's been a pretty big resurgence of the mid-tier thanks to Digital Distribution. On PSN for the PS4 when you go to games and sort by Full PS4 Games and PSN games there's 127 games priced between $3.99 and $39.99 and 3 Free games. There's also 19 games at $49.99. There's only 58 games at $59.99 and that includes a few pre-order titles. Quite a few of those sub-$59.99 games are absolutely amazing too like Child of light.

Yeah, the 7th Generation did hurt mid-tier development a lot, but let's not pretend that people only make 60 dollar games and that that's the only way you can sell a game.

 

[redcrayon]

Complete bullshit. Show me one thread where the majority of posts are a variant of "All PS4 games are shit"

Bear in mind that conversation about mobile tends to be concentrated in a handful of threads, whereas console warz, in endless tedium, tend to rage across a larger battlefield.

I agree with you that I haven't seen a single thread where the front page is almost entirely banworthy dismissal of a console platform though. Vita and Wii got far more stick than PS4 does, mainly as the PS4 is about as traditional as a games console can be, yet a poorly-supported portable and motion controls were (and are) much easier targets.

 

[LeleSocho]

I know this has been pointed out before, but the difference between "Mobile games suck / mobile should die" and "I don't personally enjoy the mobile platforms, but to each their own" is very significant.

Not that much to me, I don't enjoy how the mobile platform is nowadays and i think it hurts the other more traditional platforms therefore i think mobile does in fact suck and should die.

Here's the thing, should i stop expressing my opinion on the matter just because someone does not like it?
Must one always remark that the reason are that out of ~400k games in the app stores only few dozen games are actually good?
And in that few dozen there's a lot of those that are ports of old games?
And that in a great number of the "good" games are behind pay-to-win walls or stupid timers (which in my opinion is enough to not consider them good anymore... but whatever, i threw them in)?
And that always in the original good games pool most of them control like crap because the only input method is touch screen controls?

Those are not even highly personal or unknown reasons, they are very common and widespread...


----
Mobile (smarphone/tablets) has great potential to be a genuinely great platform but in the state that it is today is better off dead.

 

[Steel]

we don't usually count Android in the conversation when we talks about mobile gaming here. And a tablet is still a mobile device.

They're very different use cases. A tablet and a laptop are the same usecase you use them when you have the room to keep it with you and bring it out, but a portable phone is a different usecase. Not to mention you're basically saying that android games are inferior, which I'll grant, but further say that android has something more appealing to gamers than Iphone has and will ever have: emulation. You really can't beat the libraries PSP, PS1, Wii, N64, etc. librarys on either app store. That alone makes it kinda difficult to evangelize the iphone over android.

ah, cute. suddenly tablets aren't considered mobile, because you say so. well, I guess if you can fool yourself into believing that then nothing else matters and you totally got me dude.

Ah, cute, you'd rather play the same game on a tablet when you have a laptop available with the same game. And you also ignored the fact it's not coming to android for me, so yeah.

Complete bullshit. Show me one thread where the majority of posts are a variant of "All PS4 games are shit"

In fairness, the vita gets shit on just as much(probably more actually), when it actually has more big cross-platform games available than mobile, for similar reasons. Though yeah, pretending like it's even beyond that is just silly.

 

[ArtHands]

They're very different use cases. A tablet and a laptop are the same usecase you use them when you have the room to keep it with you and bring it out, but a portable phone is a different usecase. Not to mention you're basically saying that android games are inferior, which I'll grant, but further say that android has something more appealing to gamers than Iphone has and will ever have: emulation. You really can't beat the libraries PSP, PS1, Wii, N64, etc. librarys on either app store. That alone makes it kinda difficult to evangelize the iphone over android.



Ah, cute, you'd rather play the same game on a tablet when you have a laptop available with the same game. And you also ignored the fact it's not coming to android for me, so yeah.

The context in this thread refers to (native) "mobile" games, not emulation of console games.

A tablet also relates more to smartphones than a laptop. Same user interface, same input etc.

 

[Steel]

The context in this thread refers to (native) "mobile" games, not emulation of console games.

Hmmm, I didn't see the memo. So what you're saying is, when talking about mobile games, you ignore the platform that's just as large, if not larger, than apple's environment. Then you go on to say "mobile gamings great because you can get X on the iPad" ignoring the fact that X is not on android. Then you'll basically blame the person for not having an ios device, but when they point out that android has far more and better games available through emulation than the "good" ios games you're talking about as a reason why someone wouldn't be interested in ios, you say that emulation doesn't factor into mobile gaming.

Ok.

A tablet also relates more to smartphones than a laptop. Same user interface, same input etc.

Usecase is what I was talking about, not interface, and in usecase they're exactly the same.

 

[ArtHands]

Hmmm, I didn't see the memo. So what you're saying is, when talking about mobile games, you ignore the platform that's just as large, if not larger, than apple's environment. Then you go on to say "mobile gamings great because you can get X on the iPad" ignoring the fact that X is not on android. Then you'll basically blame the person for not having an ios device, but when they point out that android has far more and better games available through emulation than the "good" ios games you're talking about as a reason why someone wouldn't be interested in ios, you say that emulation doesn't factor into mobile gaming.

Ok.

Its not an android thing. That's pretty much a given that we don't include emulation when we talks about games in any form on any context. The same reason when we talks about PC gaming, we are usually refer to games released on PC, rather than emulated console games on PC.

 

[JBourne]

Yeah when I say mobile gaming is great' I pretty much mean 'ios'. Android sucks in comparison for 100 different reasons.

"Mobile gaming is great, unless it's not iOS. Then it's shit."

lol.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I don't have anything against mobile games. I think my issue is that touch controls can be incredibly frustrating to use depending on the game, and people try to force them onto games where it doesn't work. Some genres can't work with touchscreen, or the genre needs to be heavily changed to do so. I think the best mobile gaming experiences are ones that don't try to shoehorn existing games or styles onto a touch screen. The games that use a virtual joystick, for example, end up feeling like a poorer way to play a console game. It's not compelling, I don't want to feel like I could be better served playing a game on a different platform. A game like Puzzle & Dragons is the opposite and feels like something that couldn't be done without touch, it doesn't give the feeling that i'm having to fight against a poor control method.

 

[Steel]

Its not an android thing. That's pretty much a given that we don't include emulation when we talks about games in any form on any context. The same reason when we talks about PC gaming, we are usually refer to games released on PC, rather than emulated console games on PC.

Hilariously enough, whenever I see an android thread come up, they're often talking about emulation. And emulation does get attached to PC gaming and it does get discussed in platform-wide discussions, it's just PC gaming has a lot more to offer than emulation, when on mobile it's either emulation with a shitty native library on android or ios with a decent enough library, but not one that outweighs the ability to emulate. Or perhaps it does for some people? Who knows.

Also when we're talking about console games we also factor in the ability to emulate previous gens. The Vita would be a shadow of the platform it is without the ability to play psp and ps1 games. People got pretty upset when the next gen twins launched without the ability to play previous gens of consoles. It is something that gets brought up for other platforms, pretty consistently.

 

[Lonely1]

A GOG or Steam that puts up checks for determining which mobile games are sold, would do wonders.

I mostly buy Mobile games from Humble Bundles nowadays. When I browse the Play/Appstore I see nothing but skinner boxes slot machines.

Chaos Rings 1 and 2 is amazing and there are a ton of other great games too. Think there is just too much crap to sift through.

Yep, but those were released years ago. Is SE releasing new non-F2P RPGs?

 

[duckroll]

Yep, but those were releasing years ago. Is SE releasing new F2P RPGs?

All of S-E's mobile releases are F2P now. The premium model they attempted with Chaos Rings, FF Dimensions, Drakerider, and TWEWY simply didn't work. 10-20 bucks is simply too much for the platform.

Even the upcoming Mobius Final Fantasy which is a super high end game developed by the same staff which worked on the FFXIII series is F2P. A few years ago a title like that would probably have been 20 bucks from S-E.

 

[More_Badass]

Not that much to me, I don't enjoy how the mobile platform is nowadays and i think it hurts the other more traditional platforms therefore i think mobile does in fact suck and should die.

Here's the thing, should i stop expressing my opinion on the matter just because someone does not like it?
Must one always remark that the reason are that out of ~400k games in the app stores only few dozen games are actually good?
And in that few dozen there's a lot of those that are ports of old games?
And that in a great number of the "good" games are behind pay-to-win walls or stupid timers (which in my opinion is enough to not consider them good anymore... but whatever, i threw them in)?
And that always in the original good games pool most of them control like crap because the only input method is touch screen controls?

Mobile (smarphone/tablets) has great potential to be a genuinely great platform but in the state that it is today is better off dead.

Yeah, I'm going to assume you don't pay much attention to the state of mobile games if you think there are only a few dozen good games and that most of those have timers or are pay2win

 

[DragonNC]

Actually mobile games are for different market , you are bored at train station or metro & waiting girlfriend PERFECT TIME FOR 5 min action game.

 

[robertsan21]

The mobile gaming experience I have had it totally shit.
Either the controls sucks or its a microtransaction hell
I got a few RTS games and after playing them for a while I relized that they are created with one thing in mind, Microtransactions.

The amount of times it takes to build a base or whatever increases as you progress and they try to get me to buy some shitty crystals for 40 bucks to speed things up.

picked up another one from Appstore, same shit, the third one as well, WTF!

I hate mobile gaming and these damn microtransactions.

 

[LeleSocho]

Yeah, I'm going to assume you don't pay much attention to the state of mobile games if you think there are only a few dozen good games and that most of those have timers or are pay2win

You assumption is wrong and maybe you don't realize it but a few dozen is a big number in general.

 

[Moon_frogger]

"Mobile gaming is great, unless it's not iOS. Then it's shit."

lol.

Naw, bro I said it sucks in comparison. Which basically means iOS gets far more exclusives and has much better compatibility for the software. Other than than that the same arguments apply. I'm just saying, if you want to get a mobile device for gaming, get an iPad. And before someone bring up. 'Bbbbbut emulation' Pretty sure you have to root your android to use a dual shock on android which can actually be more of a pain then jail breaking your iPad. Sooooo just jailbreak your iPad and enjoy all the benefits of 'open source' android gaming plus you know, actual good exclusives by highly sought after mobile devs.

 

[More_Badass]

The mobile gaming experience I have had it totally shit.
Either the controls sucks or its a microtransaction hell
I got a few RTS games and after playing them for a while I relized that they are created with one thing in mind, Microtransactions.

The amount of times it takes to build a base or whatever increases as you progress and they try to get me to buy some shitty crystals for 40 bucks to speed things up.

picked up another one from Appstore, same shit, the third one as well, WTF!

I hate mobile gaming and these damn microtransactions.

Then play Autumn Dynasty, Autumn Dynasty Warlords, and Battle World Kronos. RTS without microtransactions.

You assumption is wrong and maybe you don't realize it but a few dozen is a big number in general.

Considering the IOS Compedium thread has probably around 300 recommended games, the vast majority of which are paid and don't have timers, I'd say a few dozen is not exactly accurate

 

[ArtHands]

Hilariously enough, whenever I see an android thread come up, they're often talking about emulation. And emulation does get attached to PC gaming and it does get discussed in platform-wide discussions, it's just PC gaming has a lot more to offer than emulation, when on mobile it's either emulation with a shitty native library on android or ios with a decent enough library, but not one that outweighs the ability to emulate. Or perhaps it does for some people? Who knows.

Also when we're talking about console games we also factor in the ability to emulate previous gens. The Vita would be a shadow of the platform it is without the ability to play psp and ps1 games. People got pretty upset when the next gen twins launched without the ability to play previous gens of consoles. It is something that gets brought up for other platforms, pretty consistently.

They are talking about emulation in android thread, not in a general mobile gaming thread.

and i see a lack of emulation talk in this pc gaming thread too
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1046938

Vita owners are using those games to pad the game library due to a weak native games library. Its in a same situation as android gaming.

And there are much more people cheering and asking for hd remaster of previous gen games instead of asking for backward compatibility.

 

[Steel]

Naw, bro I said it sucks in comparison. Which basically means iOS gets far more exclusives and has much better compatibility for the software. Other than than that the same arguments apply. I'm just saying, if you want to get a mobile device for gaming, get an iPad. And before someone bring up. 'Bbbbbut emulation' Pretty sure you have to root your android to use a dual shock on android which can actually be more of a pain then jail breaking your iPad. Sooooo just jailbreak your iPad and enjoy all the benefits of 'open source' android gaming plus you know, actual good exclusives by highly sought after mobile devs.

You literally have to download one app to root your android device. It's not difficult at all. Additionally, there are controllers that work with android without being rooted, and there's the Nvidia shield which is compatible with any controller in the first place. And it's very difficult to argue that the exclusives on Iphone are even better than just the psp games you could run on an emulator, though I'm sure you'd try.

They are talking about emulation in android thread, not in a general mobile gaming thread.

and i see a lack of emulation talk in this pc gaming thread too
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1046938

Vita owners are using those games to pad the game library due to a weak native games library. Its in a same situation as android gaming.

And there are much more people cheering and asking for hd remaster of previous gen games instead of asking for backward compatibility.

They're asking for HD remasters because backward compatibility of PS360 is impossible for the Ps4 and XB1's hardware. They wouldn't be asking for it if it was. And you're engaging in a devil's proof arguement by pointing out that there's no disscussion of emulation in one thread when all I would have to do is find one instance where it is discussed to prove you wrong, and I have a few threads far enough back in my post history that do, I just don't really feel like going through the effort.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Both Apple and Android devices support various controllers which can be used for mobile gaming.

This is one step in the right direction but there are others that need to be taken before I personally will give mobile gaming another shot. Controllers are important, but so is battery life and until we have actual graphene batteries it's going to remain an uphill struggle. Thermals are another problem I hit with mobile, I don't like roasting my S4. But even with all this, should it fall in line soon, there's one last hurdle that constantly pushes me away.

Needless feature lockout. We already see it time and time again where features are locked just to push sales, take wifi calling and Samsung for example. As gaming continues to grow on mobile so too does my concern that we'll be getting locked out based on how modern your device is as it seems a pattern within mobile all around. I don't take part in mobile gaming enough to say if this has perhaps already happened, but the chance that it may deters me considering how frequently we're expected to buy a new phone.

 

[Who]

I think the platform has a lot of potential. Turn-based RPGs, SRPGs, Tycoon type games, racing games, puzzle games, etc. function perfectly well with a touch screen. Hell I think Minecraft controls better on my iPhone than it does on the Xbox.

That being said, stamina-based f2p games are absolutely disgusting and are deserving of as much shit posting as is humanly possible.

I'm really excited about seeing what Nintendo brings to the platform though. I think a Punch Out game would be perfect for mobile.

 

[Drackhorn]

Naw, bro I said it sucks in comparison. Which basically means iOS gets far more exclusives and has much better compatibility for the software. Other than than that the same arguments apply. I'm just saying, if you want to get a mobile device for gaming, get an iPad. And before someone bring up. 'Bbbbbut emulation' Pretty sure you have to root your android to use a dual shock on android which can actually be more of a pain then jail breaking your iPad. Sooooo just jailbreak your iPad and enjoy all the benefits of 'open source' android gaming plus you know, actual good exclusives by highly sought after mobile devs.

No get an Tab S. I'd pick a Super Amoled screen anytime. Hopefully Apple will see the light (and perfect black) sometime.

Also you don't need to root anything. I played with a DS3 on my Note 2 without rooting. Also DS emulation is divine on Note devices because of the stylus support.

 

[Moon_frogger]

You literally have to download one app to root your android device. It's not difficult at all. Additionally, there are controllers that work with android without being rooted, and there's the Nvidia shield which is compatible with any controller in the first place. And it's very difficult to argue that the exclusives on Iphone are even better than just the psp games you could run on an emulator, though I'm sure you'd try.

Haha the point I was making is that you can emulate just as well on iOS. I played through both metal gear acid games on my iPad. The emulation argument is weak because you can easily emulate with iOS.

 

[Raitaro]

Considering the IOS Compedium thread has probably around 300 recommended games, the vast majority of which are paid and don't have timers, I'd say a few dozen is not exactly accurate

I've browsed through those iOS threads every now and then, but always find them a bit daunting to get through. Is there a "best of" version that compiles, let's say, the top 25 games per genre (and regardless of year of release)? Or a good external website perhaps that features those kind of top XX lists that you (and others in the Gaf threads) could get behind?

Despite my shared hate for the mobile/tablet games that do it wrong (i.e. with P2W, energy meters and especially virtual buttons + sticks), I am definitely always on the look out for quality iOS games that don't build their entire gameplay loop around such things.

 

[duckroll]

Honestly, reading posts which talk about controllers feel really weird. It's like, completely missing the point. If someone needs a controller peripheral to be "convinced" to get into mobile gaming, that person is not going to want to play mobile games, period. It's not the direction it's moving in, and it never will. No one wants to play games which have long play sessions on their phones. No one wants to use a controller with their phones. If you want those sort of experiences you can get much better native versions of those elsewhere*.

Mobile gaming is not a thing which needs to convert people, the audience is already there. If the audience is not you, that's fine. I'm pretty confident that 100% of the "mobile gamers" on this forum are also gaming on a bunch of other platforms - PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo. No one who is an enthusiast gamer exclusively games on mobile. That doesn't mean mobile games aren't good, it's just the nature of the platform. Offering different experiences on different platforms is what entertainment is all about.

Spoiler

* - For now.

 

[JBourne]

Naw, bro I said it sucks in comparison. Which basically means iOS gets far more exclusives and has much better compatibility for the software. Other than than that the same arguments apply. I'm just saying, if you want to get a mobile device for gaming, get an iPad. And before someone bring up. 'Bbbbbut emulation' Pretty sure you have to root your android to use a dual shock on android which can actually be more of a pain then jail breaking your iPad. Sooooo just jailbreak your iPad and enjoy all the benefits of 'open source' android gaming plus you know, actual good exclusives by highly sought after mobile devs.

Mobile platform wars. Ugh.

Both platforms are great and offer their own benefits and caveats. iOS has more exclusive mobile games and less issues with compatibility, Android has an open platform allowing for alternate app outlets like Amazon and Humble as well as a solid emulation scene.

Not sure why you mention rooting to use a DS controller. Mine work just fine with both my phone and tablet, although I prefer to use an ipega.

 

[Steel]

Haha the point I was making is that you can emulate just as well on iOS. I played through both metal gear acid games on my iPad. The emulation argument is weak because you can easily emulate with iOS.

And the point I was making is more or less summed up by Duckroll.

 

[KojiKnight]

The thing about these whale hunting games is, the devs are eventually going to do what we nearly did a hundred or so years ago... hunt them to extinction. There are only so many people who can afford to spend thousands on a mobile game, and those people are being stretched ever further thinner and a lot of them are either running out of money, or slowly picking up what's going on.

The play model isn't going to vanish over night, but I think as more companies try ever harder to go this route, through pure competition and dwindling whales we'll see ever fewer of them.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

For every Monument Valley I have to search to find after hearing about it on Gaf, I see 100 "Game of War", "Clash of Clans" and "Candy Crush" knockoffs advertised on my Facebook or Twitter feeds that let's face it only exist to make as much money as possible. They're not fun, they're not enlightening, they don't push any sort of meaningful boundaries. They're for the lowest common denominator in the same way Adam Sandler movies are. This coupled with the fact some of these games come from Square Enix, Capcom, Activision, EA, and yeah, I can't blame people from getting mad and saying that they're all shit because the actual shit is everywhere. The only way I can see these types of games coming to a crash is if developers continue to race further to the bottom, like making your game completely free with ads. Sort of how Flappy Bird worked for example.

 

[More_Badass]

Honestly, reading posts which talk about controllers feel really weird. It's like, completely missing the point. If someone needs a controller peripheral to be "convinced" to get into mobile gaming, that person is not going to want to play mobile games, period. It's not the direction it's moving in, and it never will. No one wants to play games which have long play sessions on their phones. No one wants to use a controller with their phones. If you want those sort of experiences you can get much better native versions of those elsewhere*.

Mobile gaming is not a thing which needs to convert people, the audience is already there. If the audience is not you, that's fine. I'm pretty confident that 100% of the "mobile gamers" on this forum are also gaming on a bunch of other platforms - PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo. No one who is an enthusiast gamer exclusively games on mobile.

Pretty much

Heh, I'm like the most active poster in the Indie Games thread and pretty much only play on PC and mobile. Hell, my favorites genres are roguelikes and tactical strategy. Playing on mobile doesn't mean you're a casual gamer; there are many challenging, unique games that aren't aimed at the causal crowd.

I hate Clash of Clans and Candy Crush and all those shitty F2P games with a passion, as much as anyone else who labels mobile gaming as this or that. But I never touch those games and never will. There are more than enough great games to be enjoyed on mobile that aren't like that.

 

[Haunted]

Spoiler

* - For now.

See, that's how you scare people who are already feeling threatened and think they need to lash out into even more reactionary stances.

 

[FoxSpirit]

Then play Autumn Dynasty, Autumn Dynasty Warlords, and Battle World Kronos. RTS without microtransactions.

Considering the IOS Compedium thread has probably around 300 recommended games, the vast majority of which are paid and don't have timers, I'd say a few dozen is not exactly accurate

Android is pure shit for games.

Seriously, there are what, two dozens or so actually good ones? If at all. And I count all Kairosoft stuff as "a total of two releases" because it's 95% reskins with 5% new mechanics.

 

[Moon_frogger]

And the point I was making is more or less summed up by Duckroll.

I'd say less lol

 

[Steel]

I'd say less lol

Oh? Throughout this thread I've been specifically saying that I, personally have absolutely no interest in what mobile gaming has to offer. Look at my posts. I didn't say all mobile games were shit once.

 

[duckroll]

See, that's how you scare people who are already feeling threatened and think they need to lash out into even more reactionary stances.

But nothing they do can change anything. So if it does happen, they'll just have to quit gaming and find another hobby I guess!

 

[Moon_frogger]

Mobile platform wars. Ugh.

Both platforms are great and offer their own benefits and caveats. iOS has more exclusive mobile games and less issues with compatibility, Android has an open platform allowing for alternate app outlets like Amazon and Humble as well as a solid emulation scene.

Not sure why you mention rooting to use a DS controller. Mine work just fine with both my phone and tablet, although I prefer to use an ipega.

Fair enough. And yes, both platforms have advantages. I'm not trying to start any wars.....but in a discussion about mobile gaming iOS is the clear winner. The emulation argument is weak and then moot with jailbreaking.

 

[JBourne]

No one wants to play games which have long play sessions on their phones. No one wants to use a controller with their phones. If you want those sort of experiences you can get much better native versions of those elsewhere*.

If I'm playing a PSP game, I'd rather it be on my phone than anything else. Most of the library looks poor when played on a monitor and television, and emulation on the Vita retains the sometimes shoddy graphics and performance (and some games aren't available at all, most notably Type 0 in English).

 

[Moon_frogger]

Oh? Throughout this thread I've been specifically saying that I, personally have absolutely no interest in what mobile gaming has to offer. Look at my posts. I didn't say all mobile games were shit once.

We were specially discussion emulation. I'm not trying to convince you to like anything.

 

[Steel]

We were specially discussion emulation. I'm not trying to convince you to like anything.

Flow of the overall conversation, unless you're under the impression you've been responding to multiple posters when you were talking to me.

If I'm playing a PSP game, I'd rather it be on my phone than anything else. Most of the library looks poor when played on a monitor and television, and emulation on the Vita retains the sometimes shoddy graphics and performance (and some games aren't available at all, most notably Type 0 in English).

I wouldn't use Type-0 as an example with the hd remaster available, but yeah stuff like crisis core and Metal gear acid not being available digitally on the vita is a great substitute for that argument.