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Nintendo files patent application for stationary game console without optical disk

Calamari41

41 > 38
It shouldnt make a difference except for the tens of millions in extra savings if cartridges were not used

They'll be selling tens of millions more games if they're all cross compatible. How do you think Mario Kart 8 would have sold if you could buy it on 3DS as well? Judging by the breakdown of Smash sales... a shit load more. Now apply that to all Nintendo games. Tropical Freeze wouldn't be struggling to hit a million. NSMBU? 3D World? Well, well worth the extra cost attached to the storage medium.

More and more people are going digital, too, which makes up a lot of ground in this area.
 

ArcLyte

Member
Aren't WiiU discs specially created with Nintendo only specifications?

They look and feel unlike any other disc. Dat rounded edge.

Yes. Wii U game disks are a Nintendo proprietary blu-ray format. They're designed to contain a portion of the OS that's loaded into memory when a game starts.
 

Clefargle

Member
sörine;176175437 said:
I don't this happening after Wii U. An overpriced controller was precisely that system's handicap, and making one that's itself a fully functional system drives cost even higher.

Besides, Nintendo wants it's audience buying more hardware rather than less. They still want people buying both the console and handheld separately, probably even moreso now if they share games.

The base SKU would come with a standard pro controller ideally, then there would be the bundle or handheld only SKUs.
 

Zee-Row

Banned
I don't think that will be an issue at all. Nintendo was the first to to implement an extrenal HDD for holding games. Then again I suppose it will come down to the OS as well, but I doubt that will be a serious issue for Nintendo

I never really relax on Nintendo because they do cool things and then they do dumb things.
 

sörine

Banned
The base SKU would come with a standard pro controller ideally, then there would be the bundle or handheld only SKUs.
What's the point then though? Either both maintain dual screen setups for compatibility or both go single screen and break from previous gens. And if it's the latter, there's no point in a dual screen handheld/console link up really either since few games would bother supporting it. I guess using the handheld as a functional extra controller (like Smash U does 3DS) but that's not bundle worthy either.
 

dolabla

Member
I despise everything about digital, so if Nintendo goes the all digital route for their next console, I probably wouldn't buy one. I can not stress that enough how much I hate digital.

I don't think they're that dumb to actually do this though. I think the backlash would be too great because there's still a huge retail market out there (me included).

After reading the thread, I tend to agree that it's probably some cartridge SD card type thing.
 
Thanks guys, thats something I been thinking about for a while on how they can get by with having power games working on the handheld, def dont want to gimp games or leave handheld only people completely out of the chance to play console games.
Your idea is better because that solves the problem of forcing people to by a game cart that contains a huge amount of data that will not be used. I think some people have suggested each game cart coming with both Console and Handheld assets as a way of being able to play on both form factors with that same game. Put it on the console, and it will load the console data, and on the handheld the handheld data. That however causes a problem with people who only care about one form factor. Let's say theres someone who only wants the handheld. This means that people who only want the Handheld variant of NX will be forced to also have the Console data in the game they purchase, which will raise the cost of the game itself that would otherwise be cheaper if it only had Handheld data. It can be a difference between Handheld data that will fit in an 8GB game cart, vs the Console data which may require over 32GB. The Handheld version of the game should cost less alone, but since you also have Console data it will force the cost up to the price of the Console data. The only way it can be done this way, is if the Console data is severely gimped enough to not use up a ton of space, which would be very disappointing. I know Nintendo has insane compression going on with some of their Wii U games, but there's only so much compression will do.
 
Does this support or negate the idea of the next handheld being the controller for the console, that it could also be played on via the cart or remotely? One SKU. Would that be Nintendo expanding the console market, or shrinking the handheld one?
 

Branduil

Member
It shouldnt make a difference except for the tens of millions in extra savings if cartridges were not used

Except they have to use carts, because they're not putting a disc drive in the handheld version of the NX. So yeah, one line of carts will save money compared to printing both carts and discs.
 

KingBroly

Banned
Does this support or negate the idea of the next handheld being the controller for the console, that it could also be played on via the cart or remotely? One SKU. Would that be Nintendo expanding the console market, or shrinking the handheld one?

I think it depends on what it's doing and where it's doing it. A lot of handheld games from Japan don't do well in the West because they're not on Consoles and vice versa. This MIGHT be what NX is trying to solve.
 

Gsnap

Member
Possibly going back to cartridges, huh? I'd be down with that. Especially if they're of a moderate size and have decent artwork on them. And some of them could be different colors! Let the nostalgia flow, baby.
 

Discomurf

Member
Nintendo also has some interest/involvement in this if I am not mistaken...

OT: Carts I'm down...

Indeed they do, see that first link (polygon article). Also I'm down w the cart/modified sd card idea... seems like it makes.sense to share games between console and handheld... 3rd parties can have the option to go digital/cart or just digital.
 

KingBroly

Banned
I'm thinking this would be the pricing structure:
$60 for Cross-compatible Cart
$60 for Cross-compatible digital
$40 for one-platform digital
 
D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
If Nintendo goes all digital with their next console, it's one less console that I have to buy and would make gaming 1/3rd dead for me. If/when Sony/Microsoft go all digital, im done with gaming. Hoping this doesn't happen but if it does, oh well.
 

Diffense

Member
I'm just at post #201 but I'm not seeing serious consideration of the possibility that this might be referring to a Wii U redesign that they'll sell at a lower price after NX releases. It has been mentioned but most seem convinced this is NX related.

13. The stationary game apparatus according to claim 1, wherein the game apparatus is compatible with another game apparatus comprising an optical disk drive for reading out a program and/or data from an optical disk, and a processor for executing the program read out from the optical disk to perform game processing, and an interface for the hard disk drive is same as an interface for the optical disk drive in said another game apparatus.

The "another game apparatus" could be the standard Wii U with which the Wii U mini is "compatible".
 

Teletraan1

Banned
Well I sure would prefer a cartridge to a disc that is prone to getting scratched like fuck all the time. And I try my best to take care of my discs. I just hope a return to carts doesn't mean shitty cardboard boxes are coming back as well. Games should come in decent quality plastic casing. SNES and N64 package was just crap.

If you are scratching blu ray or proprietary blu ray discs you are doing something horribly wrong. The Wii U discs are practically bulletproof. CDs, DVDs I could see your point but I haven't had a single game disc issue since we moved to BR. The only real advantage is the form factor that can be used between devices if that is even a thing. If everything is going to be installed on a HDD then the media is largely irrelevant. If they can get these SD esque carts under $2/unit then it would be somewhat comparable. I say $2 as generous since there is no way it costs Nintendo more than $2 to press an optical disc. That is the price you or I would pay for a small 10k unit run. I am sure Nintendo or any publisher is getting a much better deal than that. Anything more and they risk scaring off 3rd parties that wont/dont want to pay higher cost for the media the game is shipped on.
 

pixelation

Member
Not feeling it... digital only is suicide worldwide speaking, that and it sucks monkey balls. And the screen on the controller tells me that they're probably going for a cheaply specced machine yet again... bleh.
 

Psydonk

Member
Digital Only can work if they use Kiosks in conjunction with downloads.

Say each NX comes with a 64gig card, you take that card down to your local store, buy a game on a kiosk, it writes the game to the card in like 5 minutes, you take it home, plug it in and play, I see they mention Portable Hard drives as well, so maybe you can transfer the game across to a Hard Drive for long term storage.

Look at Flash Carts for the 3DS like Gateway, just download your games, store them on a 64 gig microUSB and you can just select whatever games you want to play whenever you want through a in system menu in Gateway. Far more convenient that carrying carts around with you.

This is also how this could be financially viable, every game doesn't get it's own cart, they are all stored on a single cart that has a high file space and you simply write games to a single card.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Not feeling it... digital only is suicide worldwide speaking, that and it sucks monkey balls. And the screen on the controller tells me that they're probably going for a cheaply specced machine yet again... bleh.
To be fair, it's not like Nintendo can compete with Sony & Microsoft, anyway. Western third party support is all but impossible for Nintendo at this point.
 

4Tran

Member
Why is there so much speculation about NX going digital-only? A digital-only handheld is highly unlikely and Nintendo will only go with a digital-only home console if they feel like committing corporate suicide. Japan is very important to Nintendo, and Japan doesn't really do digital.
 

Schnozberry

Member
Why is there so much speculation about NX going digital-only? A digital-only handheld is highly unlikely and Nintendo will only go with a digital-only home console if they feel like committing corporate suicide. Japan is very important to Nintendo, and Japan doesn't really do digital.

Except mobile, which is now by far the largest games market in Japan.
 

Psydonk

Member
Why is there so much speculation about NX going digital-only? A digital-only handheld is highly unlikely and Nintendo will only go with a digital-only home console if they feel like committing corporate suicide. Japan is very important to Nintendo, and Japan doesn't really do digital.

You can do digital only and not have to rely on Internet downloads. As I said above Nintendo Kiosks can have the game predownloaded and it just copies over games to your card in a few minutes without issue.

Here in Australia, Digital Only would be a nightmare, but it hasn't stopped Steam for example.
 

4Tran

Member
Except mobile, which is now by far the largest games market in Japan.
Except that neither handhelds nor home consoles are the same market as mobile. In Japan, collecting and reselling are very important, and neither is satisfied by non-physical games which is why the digital to physical game ratio in Japan is so lopsided.

You can do digital only and not have to rely on Internet downloads. As I said above Nintendo Kiosks can have the game predownloaded and it just copies over games to your card in a few minutes without issue.
It's got nothing to do with Internet downloading. It's more that the gaming culture in Japan isn't satisfied by digital games.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Didn't Tamaki already hint at the NX not being backwards compatible with the WiiU?

Nintendo would be better off just porting the top ~10 or so Wii U games over as remasters, starting with the multiplayer heavyweights, rather than adding to the cost of the console itself by having a feature which few will actually make the purchase for.
 

StevieP

Banned
Except that neither handhelds nor home consoles are the same market as mobile. In Japan, collecting and reselling are very important, and neither is satisfied by non-physical games which is why the digital to physical game ratio in Japan is so lopsided.


It's got nothing to do with Internet downloading. It's more that the gaming culture in Japan isn't satisfied by digital games.

You should visit a media create thread. Mobile is most certainly encroaching onto all traditional markets, and not just in Japan
 

Pez

Member
Could you imagine how killer it would be if they announced that all your DS/3DS games are backward compatible on day one?

Would be crazy.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
So If this gets approved, there won't be a PS4 and Xbone without a bluray drive in the future then?
Not in this manner, I suppose. There are other ways to do a digital-only system, or a system with cartridges.

That being said, if the patent holds true for the NX Console & Nintendo goes for a variant of the GamePad (except likely cheaper), those recent GamePad-related patents may be of use.
 

Blues1990

Member
Could you imagine how killer it would be if they announced that all your DS/3DS games are backward compatible on day one?

Would be crazy.

While I'll still be keeping my 3DS XL to play all of my DS/3DS games for the foreseeable future, this will be an incredible surprise.

So If this gets approved, there won't be a PS4 and Xbone without a bluray drive in the future then?

Now why would that be the case?
 

Doorman

Member
I'm on board if it's a high-capacity SD card sort of device that they're going for, a unified medium between handheld and console. Given Nintendo's desire to run their systems as power-usage-friendly as possible, I'd have to imagine that not including a spinning disc drive in a system would save on space, power consumption, and heating issues. That's without even considering all of the cross-system functionality.

I haven't looked through all of the details yet, but for all the talk about the controller having a screen, is it mentioned anywhere whether or not it's a touch screen? The NX home console having a touch-pad like the Wii U's GamePad would make a lot more sense if they want to try and keep the DS-style two screen approach for the next handheld (I'll call it DSX for now). Since the 3DS introduced the notion of the two screens not being equal size or functionality, the number of games that have used both screens for one large display has dwindled dramatically, so that would make it easy for a lot of games to be compatible between the DSX's two screens, and the NX using the TV and controller-screen. The gamepad already has a microphone and camera and whatnot of the DS, so those functions are easily shared too. In that case, it may not be the NX itself that is the oft-rumored hybrid console/portable, the real hybrid here may just be Nintendo's software library, playable on either system, and supplemented with an expanded Nintendo Network presence that includes home computer and mobile phone elements (Miiverse integration, remote digital purchasing, etc, all things they've discussed before). It consolidates their software development resources and, assuming they've learned some sort of lesson about branding from their choices with the 3DS and Wii U, it'd be easily clear to consumers that this new Nintendo platform is indeed a new generation for them, and not merely a revision.
 

Majukun

Member
what if the cartridges are optional?
basically home titles are digital only, but you can also download portable titles to insert in your gamepad and carry with you using special Nintendo authorised cartridges
 
I've read through the whole patent and I'm not sure if you are jumping to conclusions.

For me it reads like a Wii U revision with an HDD instead of a disc drive - everything else is just adjustments to make this possible technically.

Also there is no sign of game cards and it says that there is a compatible conventional version with an optical drive.
 

Branduil

Member
I would be very surprised if dual screens was a major part of the NX and not just an optional thing when you use the handheld as the TV controller.
 
I've read through the whole patent and I'm not sure if you are jumping to conclusions.

For me it reads like a Wii U revision with an HDD instead of a disc drive - everything else is just adjustments to make this possible technically.

Also there is no sign of game cards and it says that there is a compatible conventional version with an optical drive.

That's not a bad line of thought, could well be a Wii U revision instead of NX.
 

tronic307

Member
Sticking with carts for the N64 really hurt Nintendo with 3rd parties and started the decline of their empire. Why would that be different now, because SD technology is relatively cheap? Won't that still cost more for 3rd parties than Blu-Rays? Forgive my ignorance if this is a dumb question.
The cost of flash memory continues to plummet, while optical discs are about as cheap as they'll ever get. Plus, optical drives cost more, increase shipping costs with added weight, and break down more often than card readers. Sticking with optical for NX would be just as short-sighted as sticking with carts was for N64.
 
I've read through the whole patent and I'm not sure if you are jumping to conclusions.

For me it reads like a Wii U revision with an HDD instead of a disc drive - everything else is just adjustments to make this possible technically.

Also there is no sign of game cards and it says that there is a compatible conventional version with an optical drive.
yeah I've been thinking similarly. Perhaps only handheld nx form factors are coming 2016 and this is a wiiu mini to buy time for a 2017 nx home launch.

Though if this is nz home I'll be thrilled to see a controller screen returning. I use off tv play daily.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
What if the "controller with the screen" is the handheld?


Could be interesting, but would make the home console controller too expensive. WiiU gamepad is dumb and the battery is still poor. Adding in significant local processing power would kill the battery. Unless you don't use them when at home and it just becomes a dumb streaming display like the WiiU gamepad. that sounds inefficient but has some benefits:
- you buy the home console and automatically have the handheld too, so you are more likely to take it with you and play more often. Being more engaged with the platform makes it competitive vs MS/Sony
- having the handheld be compatible with the home console makes it easy to support a wide range of multiplayer experiences: normal local multiplayer and everyone brings their controller, everyone has their own private screen and local processing power making a sync multiplayer possible and interesting.
 

Red Devil

Member
Late into the thread, so... Is this 100% confirmed to be related to NX? Could this work like some sort of PlayStation TV for Wii U and/or 3DS?
 
It's interesting if they allow same cartridge to be used in handheld and console, and being able to use the handheld as a second screen is also possibility.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
People in this thread really think high density memory cards are a financially viable distribution method for a home console...? Come on guys. I can go on Amazon right now and buy 50GB BD-Rs for $2 a disc (Wii U is using single-layer BD-derived 25GB discs). Even a shitty 32GB SD card is going to run you $9. To actually beat a dual layer in storage you're going to need $20 a pop for a barely decent card. In what world is a company going to jump on a storage medium that's 10 times more expensive for similar storage? That's a massive cut.


You only need enough space for the handheld version. So vita-ish size cards. The cards would work directly on the home console - just plug them in. Assuming the handheld is around 720p, those games would look ok on a TV, for those of you playing offline.

This means you can go completely solid state, keeping your costs down. No optical and no mechanical HDD because the card is fast enough to read from, no need to install from a disc.

For those that are connects to the Internet, you have he option of connecting a USB HDD like you can with the WiiU, and the console then downloads update data to increase the quality of textures, videos etc). This is common enough with the current consoles, often downloading multi-GB updates.


I think that would work well. One sku for retail across both platforms (and Nintendo already has good download card support for retail for those that want to go digital); low cost of production due to removing optical and hard disk drives; one game works across both home and portable consoles encouraging consumers to pick up both platforms.
 
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