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[Tak3n]

By Election in Oldham, JC cancelled his visit, the press are treating like a referendum on his leadership

His shadow cabinet are threatening mass resignations is they are forced to tow party line on Syria bombing vote. He got the Labour leadership by a landslide from public members of the party voting, but MP's never wanted him, the Labour party never wanted him..if he feels like he is being forced out, is this MP's saying we don't care what the public Labour supporters want, we will only accept someone we approve off? And in another leadership battle you can bet your bottom dollar there will only be the usual main stream candidates to choose from!

Obviously he has not resigned yet, but with the press going big on the Oldham vote, and they Syria vote he is going to be under huge pressure to step down if they come close to losing their seat in Oldham


Edit...Misspelt Resigned in the title

 

[Busty]

Corbyn was always a counter culture MP.

His spent his career fighting 'the man', now he is 'the man' being the leader of the party (albeit the opposition) and the transition has been very difficult for him.

Corbyn is a career politician so he should know how the game is played, but he's found himself unable to really adjust or 'grow' in his new role because he's backed by this supposed army of Corbynistas.

Personally I think he'll be gone by the spring with middle England friendly Andy Burnham taking his place.

 

[RangerX]

Absolutely it does. Those who voted for him knew his views on war and Syria. Furthermore he is completely right on the topic. I'd imagine some Labour MPs, and some of his shadow cabinet, are looking for a legitimate excuse to undermine him. Its amazing when you consider the U-turn he and committed Labour MPs have forced George Osbourne into on tax credits and yet the media aren't focusing on that.

 

[danowat]

if he feels like he is being forced out,

Because he pretty much is, he just needs to stand fast to stick to his (no pun intended) guns.

 

[Visualante2]

Resignations? They should probably consider leaving the Labour party the way some of them are acting. Corbyn's supporters will walk him through any new leadership election. They're going to have to suck it up.

 

[Tak3n]

Resignations? They should probably consider leaving the Labour party the way some of them are acting. Corbyn's supporters will walk him through any new leadership election. They're going to have to suck it up.

you have to be nominated for a new leadership battle, no chance in hell he gets 30 votes again... the new leadership will only be middle of the road MP's, there will be no 'risks' put forward

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Why does everyone take the piss out of Corbyn? Just seems like a run of the mill left-wing person.

 

[Visualante2]

I believe the rules state the current leader is automatically on the ballot for any new leadership challenge.

 

[danowat]

Why does everyone take the piss out of Corbyn? Just seems like a run of the mill left-wing person.

Because his views are controversial in our right wing world.

 

[mehrmantrout]

Corbyn was always a counter culture MP.

His spent his career fighting 'the man', now he is 'the man' being the leader of the party (albeit the opposition) and the transition has been very difficult for him.

Corbyn is a career politician so he should know how the game is played, but he's found himself unable to really adjust or 'grow' in his new role because he's backed by this supposed army of Corbynistas.

Personally I think he'll be gone by the spring with middle England friendly Andy Burnham taking his place.

I'd rather Corbyn than that slimy toad Burnham. Labour will swing the other way and find a way to shoehorn Benn in

 

[Tak3n]

I'd rather Corbyn than that slimy toad Burnham. Labour will swing the other way and find a way to shoehorn Benn in

When Burnham lost he said he would never run again, but I bet that will change

 

[Deleted member 231381]

you have to be nominated for a new leadership battle, no chance in hell he gets 30 votes again... the new leadership will only be middle of the road MP's, there will be no 'risks' put forward

You don't have to be renominated if you're challenged. To quote the Labour Party constitution:

ii. Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the Commons members of the PLP. Nominations not attaining this threshold shall be null and void.

Nominations have to be sought by the potential challengers, not the incumbent.

 

[Tak3n]

I believe the rules state the current leader is automatically on the ballot for any new leadership challenge.

did not know that, I still think he would not run, as no point repeating the result as he would probably win even more easily as people will be pissed off MP's kicked him out

 

[Mr. Sam]

I'd personally leave the Labour Party if Corbyn was forced out prior to the general election. I just don't see how his mandate can be questioned by those within the party. They don't have to blindly back every decision he makes but to force him to resign entirely would be ridiculous.

On the Syra issue, it doesn't help that Corbyn is absolutely right - Cameron has not demonstrated how increased bombings would defeat ISIS or help push toward an end to the civil war.

I do feel there have been several moments where Corbyn could have been more savvy or more co-operational but the general ruckus within the press and within the parliamentary party has been totally out of proportion.

 

[Carl2291]

Why does everyone take the piss out of Corbyn? Just seems like a run of the mill left-wing person.

Well, you answered your own question.

 

[Visualante2]

did not know that, I still think he would not run, as no point repeating the result as he would probably win even more easily as people will be pissed off MP's kicked him out

Let me get this straight. He shouldn't run because he would win with a bigger margin?

 

[Roberto Larcos]

If the Labour Party is too left-wing for them, they should join the Tories or Lib Dems. Trigger a by-election if you don't want to be part of the party anymore.

And why they want to support Syria just a little over a decade after Iraq I'll never understand.

 

[Mr. Sam]

The hypothetical scenario in which they attempt to push Corbyn out and he just comes back with an even bigger mandate is hilarious.

 

[SuperBowser]

nice to know we will be stuck with this useless Conservative government for years to come because Labour and newspapers are too busy with this idiotic infighting.

 

[Cairnsay]

The hypothetical scenario in which they attempt to push Corbyn out and he just comes back with an even bigger mandate is hilarious.

Yep. If scenario plays out that way, it would strengthen him to the point where he could have a shadow cabinet re-shuffle, this time without any compromise to the middle ground of the party.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Why does everyone take the piss out of Corbyn? Just seems like a run of the mill left-wing person.

Because if every newspaper front page is about Jeremy Corbyns shirt being unbuttoned at the top, it's easier to slide shitty policies under people's noses without them smelling it.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

The hypothetical scenario in which they attempt to push Corbyn out and he just comes back with an even bigger mandate is hilarious.

I'm not sure he'd get enough nominations from the party to run at this point, that's if he even wanted to. Would love it though.

 

[Goodlife]

Starting to think he should just leave and become leader of the greens, taking his hundreds and thousands of paid up supporters with him.

Labour MP's are being like spoilt children

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yep. If scenario plays out that way, it would strengthen him to the point where he could have a shadow cabinet re-shuffle, this time without any compromise to the middle ground of the party.

This is why he should whip the Syria vote. His cabinet can either resign and let him pick a new cabinet; or challenge him, lose, and let him pick a new cabinet; or obey him. Either way, he gets an obedient cabinet.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Corbyn is 100% right on his stance with Syria/ the middle east.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

He should never have been voted leader of the Labour party.
He has the support of a small number (all be it record breaking) who paid up to be members just to vote for him, but doesn't have the support of his party.
People who say this is bollocks and it means the people aren't being represented need to remember we had an election less than 6 months ago and all these Labour MPs were voted in on a centre left agenda, not a far left like he's preaching.
He's the black sheep, not them. The right thing is for him to quit as leader and quit Labour. Go start a new left wing party and see how much that attracts with this record breaking number of ordinary folks who voted for him.
The Labour party was hijacked after the election and its about time it was put back.


..and this is from someone who agress withbhim about Syria.

 

[Cairnsay]

This is why he should whip the Syria vote. His cabinet can either resign and let him pick a new cabinet; or challenge him, lose, and let him pick a new cabinet; or obey him. Either way, he gets an obedient cabinet.

I honestly think the thing (problem?) with Corbyn is, he doesn't want to divide the party, he doesn't want it to have to come to that. But I honestly feel the gulf in politics between Corbyn and his allies, and the majority of the parliamentary Labour party, is too vast. They're essentially two different parties under one banner at the moment.

 

[MemoryHumanity]

Corbyn is the man. Shame I'll probably never get a chance to vote for him.

 

[GeordieMark]

He should never have been voted leader of the Labour party.
He has the support of a small number (all be it record breaking) who paid up to be members just to vote for him, but doesn't have the support of his party.
People who say this is bollocks and it means the people aren't being represented need to remember we had an election less than 6 months ago and all these Labour MPs were voted in on a centre left agenda, not a far left like he's preaching.
He's the black sheep, not them. The right thing is for him to quit as leader and quit Labour. Go start a new left wing party and see how much that attracts with this record breaking number of ordinary folks who voted for him.
The Labour party was hijacked after the election and its about time it was put back.


..and this is from someone who agress withbhim about Syria.

Yeah, I agree with this. I think he is refreshing as a politician with actual principles he is prepared to stand up for, but at the same time I feel like he is an idealist and a bit of a dreamer. He will always have a lot of support from students and the far left, but he is too radical to lead a mainstream party and have any chance of actually winning a general election.

 

[Spaghetti]

it absolutely shows the disconnect labour MPs have from the membership.it also confirms wider suspicions that labour is teeming with neocons and careerists with no principles, or a sense of history.

the party is being hacked to pieces from the inside despite having a leader that connected well with people, and handily beat out three flavours of establishment candidate while being the underdog who nobody thought could win. anecdotally, i've seen people who had zero interest in labour getting involved in politics since corbyn won. i personally thought i couldn't be less interested in voting ever again until corbyn won too. even if he couldn't win a GE, i thought it would at least instil some form of social conscience back into british politics, but it seems to have brought out the very worst in all parties, and the press too.

he has a human quality that is incredibly rare in frontbench politics, and people can get an affinity for him as a person based on his principles and character.

he's also very popular with young people. if he's ousted by a mutinous party who effectively want to share a platform with the tories, they're creating a generation of apathetic non-voters who think the political system only goes one way despite two major parties.

corbyn needs to stick to his guns here. history will prove him right to i'm afraid. current actions for syria are just more of the same that got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[openrob]

Leader makes decisions whilst leading and then people want to oust him...bit silly, no?
Let them resign.

If a large group of MP's want something different than what the party they are a part of stands for...Then let them go.
Personally, his leaadership is still in the infantile stage. If he can get through all this then things might settle down. But people have to realise that he wants something radically different than what the gradually-drifting-right labour party has been for a while.

...stuff...

Well said

 

[Nicktendo86]

Good to see the 'they should just join the tories' nonsense is not just confined to twitter but is also on GAF too. Why the hell should life long Labour members who have given their all for the party leave because they don't agree with the new leader? I thought he was all about building a broad church, does that not include those who disagree with him?

He does have a massive mandate from those who elected him but those 250k are a drop in the bucket compared to the 9.5 million who voted Labour in the last election, who's to say the vast majority of those don't agree with Corbyn? Most people couldn't give a shit about politics and only bother to vote at general elections, the moderate labour MPs are there to represent the views of the majority of their constituents, not the hard left who turned out in droves for the leadership election.

The thing with Syria and the reason why a lot of MPs and shadow ministers are angry is not Corbyn's position but the way he has played it. They had a meeting yesterday, apparently the majority there were in favour of strikes. Corbyn says he is a consensus politician and the consensus of the shadow cabinet is in favour. They broke up and have been asked to think about it over the weekend before a collective decision is made on Monday but he released a letter saying he is against strikes the very same evening. Is there any point to meeting on Monday? Will he whip the vote? Why should they take any notice of a whipped vote when their leader has voted against the whip 300 times? It's a farce. Momentum are pushing to put pressure on MPs over the weekend as well to ensure they get behind dear leader.

My personal view is he will be there until the May elections. It is difficult to remove a Labour leader though, so who knows.

 

[Tak3n]

Let me get this straight. He shouldn't run because he would win with a bigger margin?

yes, if it is clear (and it looks like it) that neither his Mp's or the parliamentary party will accept him, what would be he point in winning another slam dunk, only to face the same issues...

I get the impression they will never accept him ( the Mp's) regardless of how many votes he gets, and issuing the whip only works if it is towed, you get a mass rebellion then you instantly become a lame duck again

 

[Tak3n]

Leader makes decisions whilst leading and then people want to oust him...bit silly, no?

because those people never wanted him, he was not voted in by the people he needs to back him

 

[Coriolanus]

And why they want to support Syria just a little over a decade after Iraq I'll never understand.

"Because We Must Do SOMETHING!"
not even kidding. that's literally it.

He should never have been voted leader of the Labour party.
He has the support of a small number (all be it record breaking) who paid up to be members just to vote for him, but doesn't have the support of his party.
People who say this is bollocks and it means the people aren't being represented need to remember we had an election less than 6 months ago and all these Labour MPs were voted in on a centre left agenda, not a far left like he's preaching.
He's the black sheep, not them. The right thing is for him to quit as leader and quit Labour. Go start a new left wing party and see how much that attracts with this record breaking number of ordinary folks who voted for him.
The Labour party was hijacked after the election and its about time it was put back.
..and this is from someone who agress withbhim about Syria.

Parties change over time. Corbyn is the culmination of labour's desire for change. He played the system and won. Those that oppose him are welcome to leave the party, instead of trying to hijack it.

Good to see the 'they should just join the tories' nonsense is not just confined to twitter but is also on GAF too. Why the hell should life long Labour members who have given their all for the party leave because they don't agree with the new leader? I thought he was all about building a broad church, does that not include those who disagree with him?

There's a difference between disagreeing and actively undermining.

 

[mrklaw]

Absolutely it does. Those who voted for him knew his views on war and Syria. Furthermore he is completely right on the topic. I'd imagine some Labour MPs, and some of his shadow cabinet, are looking for a legitimate excuse to undermine him. Its amazing when you consider the U-turn he and committed Labour MPs have forced George Osbourne into on tax credits and yet the media aren't focusing on that.

Perhaps he should be offering a free vote on this matter though? He knows he has limited support for certain stances he holds, so trying to push those through will just end in tears.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Corbyn being described as far left is odd to me and I think just speaks to how far this country's political scene has slid to the right, as well as how desperate the media are to paint him as a dangerous, extremist, fringe radical. Left? Certainly. Far left? No, there's a whole lot of the political spectrum over there untouched.

In the event that Corbyn left for the Greens - which would literally never happen - and every last one his supporters went with him, the electoral system in this country is fucked up enough that they'd likely gain, say, one seat in the general election. Obviously, it's impossible to say. He may be fortunate enough to have his supporters spread over a handful of constituencies and in a position to gain as many as three seats. Meanwhile, four men and a dog vote for the SNP and they get a sixth of the seats in the Commons.

 

[Exterminieren]

The problem is not Corbyn's political views, the problem is that so far he's been a pretty appalling party leader. For all his talk of broad church, consensus politics he's shown very little inclination to compromise on anything.

He had a difficult job to do, but there's still no excuse for how reliably he's been fucking it up.

As for his shadow cabinet... Christ, don't get me started.

 

[openrob]

because those people never wanted him, he was not voted in by the people he needs to back him

That is part of the problem though. Many MP's didn't want him, but the general populus does. If the MPs cannot reflect what the people wan't in their actions, should they be MP's?
I know that they were voted in locally themselves, so that creates a paradox, but in some way they have to respect what the people voted for.

Personally Corbyn has to be determined, passionate and not give in. If they walk out, it's fine. It will be the beginning of a political change needed for this country rather than a slowly narrowing difference between parties.

Better to try and fail than to have never have tried at all.

 

[Mr. Sam]

It seems to me the wisest choice is to allow a free vote on Syria. Even if he used the whip, there's every chance a) they'd lose the vote anyway and/or b) there'd be widespread rebellion, even within the shadow cabinet. Sadly, it seems a foregone conclusion. Let people vote how they wish and rest easy knowing that you're not personally responsible for what follows.

I'm not sure he'd get enough nominations from the party to run at this point, that's if he even wanted to. Would love it though.

As Crab quoted from the Labour Party consititution earlier in the thread:

ii. Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20 per cent of the Commons members of the PLP. Nominations not attaining this threshold shall be null and void.

Nominations have to be sought by the potential challengers, not the incumbent.

That is part of the problem though. Many MP's didn't want him, but the general populus does. If the MPs cannot reflect what the people wan't in their actions, should they be MP's?
I know that they were voted in locally themselves, so that creates a paradox, but in some way they have to respect what the people voted for.

I think this is one of many situations that highlights the stupidity of the constituency/first past the post system.

 

[Tak3n]

The problem is not Corbyn's political views, the problem is that so far he's been a pretty appalling party leader. For all his talk of broad church, consensus politics he's shown very little inclination to compromise on anything.

He had a difficult job to do, but there's still no excuse for how reliably he's been fucking it up.

As for his shadow cabinet... Christ, don't get me started.

The problem is he has spent the last 30 years as a fringe MP with semi radical views, and always fought his own party....you can imagine the uproar if now as leader he suddenly says his views can be compromised, he would get torn apart...The lib dems were largely derided as giving up their souls as soon as power beckoned, he would be tarred the same, if he is going down it has to go down with his principals

 

[Ghost]

On my Facebook feed I have a few people who were all in on the 'Corbyn is wrong for labour, he's getting everything wrong' ship, but this issue has shut them all up so far, I assume because they've realised all the centrist dreamboats they've been pushing are ready for the UK to escalate yet another middle east conflict we have no plan for resolving.

I don't think he will survive until the next election but I still think just by getting to the leadership position Corbyn has drastically improved the level of debate in the country, because it's clear from this issue that if it weren't for him we'd be bombing Syria today, most likely we'd also now be selling prison services to Saudi Arabia, and who knows, we might also have had tax-credits cut.

It's not some brilliant master plan from Corbyn that's made those things happen, I agree with most that his leadership this far hasn't been good enough. But I think his victory made it ok for people to voice and act on leftist opinions again.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Starting to think he should just leave and become leader of the greens, taking his hundreds and thousands of paid up supporters with him.

Labour MP's are being like spoilt children

That would be quite exciting. Is that actually a realistic possibility?

 

[Mr. Sam]

I think there's room for Corbyn to compromise and retain his principals. What I feel fucked Nick Clegg over was that he seemed complicit in some of the government's less popular decisions (e.g. tuition fees increase) when it would have been wiser (politically at least) to abstain. Rule one of politics: don't die on every hill you come across.

That would be quite exciting. Is that actually a realistic possibility?

Not in the least (but feel free to ban me in four years when Prime Minister Corbyn and his five hundred Green MPs form a government).

 

[SoCoRoBo]

Why does everyone take the piss out of Corbyn? Just seems like a run of the mill left-wing person.

A run of the mill left wing person who appointed Seumas Milne, a man who's never encountered an autocrat he doesn't like, as Labour's Director of Strategy.

 

[MisterFalcon]

A run of the mill left wing person who appointed Seumas Milne, a man who's never encountered an autocrat he doesn't like, as Labour's Director of Strategy.

And a Secretary for International Development who thinks Mao did more good then bad.

 

[Ghost]

I think Corbyn is fine with the party compromising, but he personally isn't going to change his views to match anyone else's, and he will make sure everyone knows what his opinion is.

It's that last bit that screws him over, every political leader does things they don't personally agree with, but none of them admit to it.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Not in the least (but feel free to ban me in four years when Prime Minister Corbyn and his five hundred Green MPs form a government).

Lol, well that I feel is very unrealistic. But I've heard people discussing the possibility of an SDP style split in the Labour party. Maybe Jezza leaving for the Greens is how it would happen?

 

[PJV3]

I hoped Corbyn becoming leader would force the PLP and the rest of the party to have a rethink and a sort out, sadly it isn't going to happen and I'm pretty gutted about it.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

He should never have been voted leader of the Labour party.
He has the support of a small number (all be it record breaking) who paid up to be members just to vote for him, but doesn't have the support of his party.
People who say this is bollocks and it means the people aren't being represented need to remember we had an election less than 6 months ago and all these Labour MPs were voted in on a centre left agenda, not a far left like he's preaching.
He's the black sheep, not them. The right thing is for him to quit as leader and quit Labour. Go start a new left wing party and see how much that attracts with this record breaking number of ordinary folks who voted for him.
The Labour party was hijacked after the election and its about time it was put back.


..and this is from someone who agress withbhim about Syria.

I'm with you on this, I've always voted Labour, but Corbyn is more Liberal than the vast majority of Labour and whilst he had a hardcore of people willing to pay £3 to vote him into power (so that's like $8-ish) its not representative of the general public who voted the MP's for the party into power, they were all voted in when Labour was not as left leaning as Corbyn was taking them!
Hell the last election's loss was widely attributed to weak leadership and leaning too much to the left for the general public - leaning further left will not get them into power! if it was the case we'd have had successive Liberal governments for the past decades
Labour sued to be a left of centre fairly common sense party who favoured public sector and the armed forces.

Corbyn and his followers political views seem more aligned with the Liberal, SNP and Socialist parties, i do find it generally odd they are trying to shift Labour into that area of the political spectrum

Right now i feel shunned as a labour member by Corybnesq policies, i'm not liberal, i'm not conservative i'm in a no man's land as a voter! the worst aspect of this being that the conservatives lurch towards the centre has now positioned them as the part i'm most aligned with now - something i find very distressing
I feel like not voting, but thats not an option either