-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Did Monkey Island fanbase (and franchise in general) just died off?
- Thread starter DownGrader
- Start date
Well, its the best it only makes sense.
uomoartificiale
Member
I've always been a die-hard fan of these games, especially because the italian translation at the time was top-notch! I still love 1 and 2, and still play them once in a while (not to completion). I liked 3 at the time, but in retrospect it is definitely a product of its time.
I tried to get into the "tales of" series, but imo reflected too much the kid-friendly, fan-pandering approach of 4 (which I somewhat liked nontheless). Maybe those are great games, I don't know.
The only solution would be to raise money on kickstarter to buy the rights from Disney and give them to Ron Gilbert.
1. Ron would not agree to that
2. $millions$ of $dollars$
3. Disney NEVER gets rid of anything EVER for NO REASON WHATSOEVER
In alternative Disney could ask Ron to make a Monkey Island game, which will never happen as the franchise has pedigree but it all happened twenty years ago and even fans know it will bomb hard as a mainstream big-budget product.
I guess the best you can hope for is a Guybrush Infinity 3.0 figure.
I tried to get into the "tales of" series, but imo reflected too much the kid-friendly, fan-pandering approach of 4 (which I somewhat liked nontheless). Maybe those are great games, I don't know.
The only solution would be to raise money on kickstarter to buy the rights from Disney and give them to Ron Gilbert.
1. Ron would not agree to that
2. $millions$ of $dollars$
3. Disney NEVER gets rid of anything EVER for NO REASON WHATSOEVER
In alternative Disney could ask Ron to make a Monkey Island game, which will never happen as the franchise has pedigree but it all happened twenty years ago and even fans know it will bomb hard as a mainstream big-budget product.
I guess the best you can hope for is a Guybrush Infinity 3.0 figure.
People often say that Ron Gilbert was the biggest reason MI 1 and 2 are better than the sequels, but I don't agree with that. I mean, I agree that they're the best games in the series (especially 2, and not counting the remakes which killed the mood/comedy too much), but people forget that 99% of the writing (the main reason people love these games) was done by Dave Grossman and Tim Schafer. I would be fine with another Ron Gilbert Monkey Island, but I'd only be really enthusiastic if Grossman and Schafer would be involved again. They are what made Monkey Island funny in the first place. Looking at Ron Gilbert's later work, I'm still not convinced he's any good as a writer. Deathspank was horrible in that regard, for example, and Grossman and Schafer's later work shows that they can both still be hilarious. And, of course, I'd want people like Purcell, Land and McConnell back - the art and music are such huge part of these games and those teams were so insanely talented.
Don't get me wrong: Ron Gilbert is a great and smart game designer, and his work on the Scumm engine borders on brilliance. But he's not that funny as a writer, and people often ignore the work of others just because Gilbert's name was on the front of the box.
Don't get me wrong: Ron Gilbert is a great and smart game designer, and his work on the Scumm engine borders on brilliance. But he's not that funny as a writer, and people often ignore the work of others just because Gilbert's name was on the front of the box.
Ok I can understand people liking 1 or 2 better but 3 still holds up today with the art, music and VO. Are you talking about 4?
Adam_Vania
Banned
imo 3 killed it off. 2 had the most amazing ending and they just completely dropped the ball w three. if only Ron Gilbert was given the chance to make his original story - the actual - Monkey Island 3.
uomoartificiale
Member
No I'm talkin about 3. I still like it alot, but it had this feeling of all being a "play" and all being in jest. I much prefer the tone of the first and second one, which are humorous as well, but have you more involved in the story. There's more at stake.
I mean, Carla gave me tre creeps and I was fucking irritated at Herman Toothrot and his riddles. They were serious obstacles as characters. Also the final "boss fight" with LeChuck is super tense. Maybe I'm just remembering them as more dramatic than they really were.
He actually was, a couple of times, and he chose not to do it himself. They offered it to him directly after Monkey 2, he was asked back by Lucasarts for both 3 and 4, and Telltale offered him a designer role when they did 5 (and he ended up doing a couple of story meetings with them for that one). He wasn't cheated out of the franchise or anything. It's only in recent years that he started expressing an active interest in doing one again.
Manny Calavera
Member
Monkey Island 2 is still my second favorite game of all time and I replay the first three every two years or so. I love everything about the series (The first three and Tales to a point), the humor, the story, the locations and the puzzles. I'd love nothing more than a new sequel with Ron Gilbert on board. Well a new Gabriel Knight with Jane Jensen might get close.
CecilRousso
Member
Tales is better then Curse and much much much better then Escape. It's a shame that we didn't get a sequel.
Worth noting "Ron's actual MI3" didn't become a thing until Cavedog folded, which seems a bit disingenuous. In interviews before that Gilbert seemed to think COMI was a fine sequel.
Shadowheart
Member
I've always wanted to play only Curse of Monkey Island and have tried and failed for years. Going through all those fucking hoops to try and run the ancient game on a modern system is frustrating.
"PC games are forever, unlike console games" my ass.
"PC games are forever, unlike console games" my ass.
Adam_Vania
Banned
that's fine if he thought it was a fine sequel. it was an ok sequel but a huge drop in quality from MI2.
i thought he had something written for 3 back in the day like while they were still making 2. maybe not fully fleshed out but an idea of where things are going. what do you meant it didn't "become a thing" until later?
Like I said earlier, he was offered to do sequels numerous times and he always rejected it. The twist ending for 2 was intended as a joke - Grossman, Schafer and Gilbert have always confessed that in interviews. They just wanted to make the ending a weird mindfuck, in the Monty Python style (think Holy Grail), because they were done with the franchise at that point and they didn't think there would be more sequels. They had some early ideas (and again, Grossman and Schafer were the actual writers of those games instead of Gilbert) on how to continue if they did do a third one, but there was never a big 'master plan' as some people claim these days.
It's only recently that Gilbert started talking about wanting to do 'his' Monkey 3, but that ignores the fact that there wasn't a big mapped out thing in the first place, the fact that Grosman and Schafer are far, far better writers and the people responsible for making the first two games as funny and interesting as they are, and it feels kind of insulting to the people who worked on the later games.
Before a couple of years ago he was always perfectly happy with Monkey 3, except for the fact that Elaine and Guybrush got back together. He worked on the story of Telltale's Monkey Island, and his main input was on how Elaine should be handled. Also, a lot of the creative people behind the later sequels actually come from the first two Monkey Games - Dave Grossman was a lead designer for Tales, for example, and he (together with Tim Schafer) did almost all of the writing for Monkey 1 and 2. I mean, he also always claimed he would never want a remake of the first two games, and suddenly he was appearing in promotional videos for the remakes when those got announced.
Ron Gilbert talks a lot, is what I'm saying.
He literally never talked about a third Monkey island game before Cavedog folded and instead said he was done with making them and they were Lucasarts' property, not his. But it's hard to fault him for coming back to it in later years since he doesn't have the same game track record as Schafer (Yeah, he founded Humongous and Cavedog, but one is childen's software, though excellent, and the other's key game series, Total Annihilation, wasn't made by Gilbert).
Lister
Banned
Many games still work fine and most work with some tinkering, yet many more have been repackaged for the cost of a cup of coffee and work fine (love you GOG). Just 'cause you are having issues with one game that is almost 2 DECADES old doesn't mean that PC games aren't forever, unlike console games.
biggersmaller
Banned
I was once big into adventure gaming in the Sierra/Lucas Arts days. Then I played Monkey Island and Star Trek a few years back.
oof
They had not aged well at all. The confusing PowerPoint (or HyperCard if you will) gameplay. The often terrible art. I'm a nostalgic person, but unlike other genres - those old adventure games nothing to point at as good by today's standards.
oof
They had not aged well at all. The confusing PowerPoint (or HyperCard if you will) gameplay. The often terrible art. I'm a nostalgic person, but unlike other genres - those old adventure games nothing to point at as good by today's standards.
What? I managed to play it on a modern PC just fine with ScummVM. What was the problem?
As for Curse... It's a fine game, but beside the drop in quality from MI2, there's also the tone shift. CoMI just doesn't feel the same as the first two games, in terms of humor and story.
uomoartificiale
Member
I have to strongly disagree. Talking of the first two games of the series alone, they are nicely paced games, full of hints and clever puzzles (they have some lows here as well), totally playable even today. Nicely animated pixel art too. I think you should play Monkey 2 as a refresher.
The tonal shift is interesting. Monkey 2 is my favorite, followed by 1, and then there's quite some distance to the others (although I still like Curse and appreciate Tales). Mostly because of, indeed, the atmosphere, and the fact that they feel like tighter packages.
But I also always was fine with the tonal shift - Curse sets a completely different tone for itself but does it well. Taken as it's own thing it totally works. Escape goes too far in that direction and ends up as a lamer version of a Sam & Max game (which isn't helped by the poor early 3D and the unnecessary 'retcons' of Monkey Island lore, as if the 'lore' was ever important in these games). I always disliked it, but going back to it after Tales softened me on it a bit. It doesn't hurt as bad now that it's not the finale, and it does have some great jokes and puzzles (probably better than the ones in Curse, except for the Monkey Kombat part of course). It's just that the rest of it doesn't work.
Tales is another weird mix, where they tried to go back to the style of Curse mixed in with a bit of Revenge, and even some Escape sneaking in here and there, all mixed with the usual Telltale house style.
Even as a kid (and I wasn't a kid anymore when Tales came out of course) the different art styles and tones just felt like a part of the series, and a part of the charm. You never knew what you were going to get when you started a new one - how all the regular characters would look, what the mood would be like, etc. I actually think there's quite a change between 1 and 2 as well, but people often don't agree with me on that one.
But I also always was fine with the tonal shift - Curse sets a completely different tone for itself but does it well. Taken as it's own thing it totally works. Escape goes too far in that direction and ends up as a lamer version of a Sam & Max game (which isn't helped by the poor early 3D and the unnecessary 'retcons' of Monkey Island lore, as if the 'lore' was ever important in these games). I always disliked it, but going back to it after Tales softened me on it a bit. It doesn't hurt as bad now that it's not the finale, and it does have some great jokes and puzzles (probably better than the ones in Curse, except for the Monkey Kombat part of course). It's just that the rest of it doesn't work.
Tales is another weird mix, where they tried to go back to the style of Curse mixed in with a bit of Revenge, and even some Escape sneaking in here and there, all mixed with the usual Telltale house style.
Even as a kid (and I wasn't a kid anymore when Tales came out of course) the different art styles and tones just felt like a part of the series, and a part of the charm. You never knew what you were going to get when you started a new one - how all the regular characters would look, what the mood would be like, etc. I actually think there's quite a change between 1 and 2 as well, but people often don't agree with me on that one.
The game works fine with ScummVM (no matter the platform, I even run the game on my Android phone). The only hoops you have to do is to copy files from both CDs to one folder: http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=8012
Bitch Pudding
Member
Jup. Hope there will be a 3rd Ron Gilbert Monkey Island at some point.
kimifan141
Member
i love the monkey island 1 & 2 still to date but the sequels have left the series in a broken way.
Monkey island 3 & 4 despite being good adventure games are extremely ackward and very different from the style ron gilbert set up 1 & 2.
i still remember the horror when i played the demo of monkey island 4 , the terrible 3d controls and the graphics , i knew it for sure from then the glory of adventure games was over for a while and man it took a while for us to see it make a comeback much later.
Tales of monkey island was fun but i doubt if the episodic story was as good as the full games.
The only way i can see the series being revived properly is letting ron gilbert do a proper 3 & 4 sequels.
Monkey island 3 & 4 despite being good adventure games are extremely ackward and very different from the style ron gilbert set up 1 & 2.
i still remember the horror when i played the demo of monkey island 4 , the terrible 3d controls and the graphics , i knew it for sure from then the glory of adventure games was over for a while and man it took a while for us to see it make a comeback much later.
Tales of monkey island was fun but i doubt if the episodic story was as good as the full games.
The only way i can see the series being revived properly is letting ron gilbert do a proper 3 & 4 sequels.
DownGrader
Member
ScummVM is your friend, no matter your operating system (there are ScummVM ports for virtually every platform). Don't forget reading a README for a (very brief) instructions on how to rum multi-CD games with ScummVM.
TheNoblePirate
Member
I've been a fan of the series for a long time, but I never participated in fandom, if that makes sense. Then again, that has applied to just about any game series I've enjoyed. It's a shame that fan sites drop off, but that happens to just about anything over time. So many dead bookmarks over the years.
People have already said it, but in the realm of getting old PC games running on modern systems, it literally doesn't get any easier than ScummVM. You drop a bunch of files off the disc into a folder on your hard drive, tell ScummVM where they are and off you go. Works flawlessly.
Jawmuncher
Member
I'm waiting on Curse of Monkey Island and Escape from Monkey Island remastered
Englebert3rd
Unconfirmed Member
I wish Disney calls Bill Teller to remaster MI3. I'd be in heaven.
To be honest Monkey Island is my favourite series and the amount of games is fine. Tales of Monkey Island was an awesome entry and felt satisfying.
A new MI can wait.
To be honest Monkey Island is my favourite series and the amount of games is fine. Tales of Monkey Island was an awesome entry and felt satisfying.
A new MI can wait.
It appears so, depressingly. The Monkey Island series is one of my favorites and I was hopeful the remakes of the first two (which I absolutely loved) would breathe new life into the franchise. I would love more, no wait - I NEED more Monkey Island in my life 
By the way, Monkey Island fans here can likely look forward to Thimbleweed Park - the new adventure game from Ron Gilbert of Monkey Island 1+2 fame. The game looks like a lost gem from the early Monkey Island era. Hits PC and Xbox One, with a PS4 version likely to follow a few months later.
Surprised to see the hate for Tales of Monkey Island. Would love to hear why you guys didn't like it/hated it.
I know that Tales is not looked up to much, my question is: why? As a huge fan of the series, I personally loved the game. My one main gripe is Telltale's 3D environments are far less expressive and interesting than the 2D environments by Lucasarts. I would love an episode set after Tales as it had a cool twist at the end.
It would be glorious if they can remake the remaining 3 (and improve upon them as well). I would love for Double Fine to take the IP back or get access to it like they did for Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle :[
Had no idea Sony was involved in this. So they won't work on any IPs that are tied to Sony? That sucks for me. Though its' a blessing for others who don't want Telltale near the Lucasarts games again.
*High five*
I too loved Tales and MI is easily one of my most cherished gaming franchises
By the way, Monkey Island fans here can likely look forward to Thimbleweed Park - the new adventure game from Ron Gilbert of Monkey Island 1+2 fame. The game looks like a lost gem from the early Monkey Island era. Hits PC and Xbox One, with a PS4 version likely to follow a few months later.
Surprised to see the hate for Tales of Monkey Island. Would love to hear why you guys didn't like it/hated it.
I know that Tales is not looked up to much, my question is: why? As a huge fan of the series, I personally loved the game. My one main gripe is Telltale's 3D environments are far less expressive and interesting than the 2D environments by Lucasarts. I would love an episode set after Tales as it had a cool twist at the end.
It would be glorious if they can remake the remaining 3 (and improve upon them as well). I would love for Double Fine to take the IP back or get access to it like they did for Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle :[
Oh shit... I've done some research, and things seem way more complicated than I thought:
https://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/comment/2459703/#Comment_2459703
I didn't know Sony actually has the rights for all LucasArts adventures.
Also, stop breaking my heart - Tales of Monkey Island was great
Had no idea Sony was involved in this. So they won't work on any IPs that are tied to Sony? That sucks for me. Though its' a blessing for others who don't want Telltale near the Lucasarts games again.
*High five*
I too loved Tales and MI is easily one of my most cherished gaming franchises
Now just imagine the hoops you'd have to jump through if you had, say, the Sega CD version of The Secret of Monkey Island and wanted to play that on a modern console.
Monkey Island is the game series that turned me into a gamer and Curse is in my top three games of all time, but I just can't play point and click adventure games anymore. They are too slow. I'd like to see a Curse remaster then I am OK with Monkey Island going to the museum of gaming history.
It still amazes that parts of the Monkey Island movie script were repurposed for Pirates Curse of the Black Pearl. That's really the monkey island most people know these days.
It still amazes that parts of the Monkey Island movie script were repurposed for Pirates Curse of the Black Pearl. That's really the monkey island most people know these days.
Skellig Gra
Member
There is no need to remaster Curse. Escape on the other hand could use a complete overhaul.
There was a planned animated Monkey Island film as well that never was completed. Storyboards and artwork are available in the Monkey Island collection on PC/PS3/Xbox 360 .
petethepanda
Member
The series was at its peak in the 90s, and the 90s were a long time ago. Secret is 26 years old, Curse is 19. "Dead" is a harsh word, but yeah.
MI1 (specifically a demo included in a pack of blank floppies my dad got) is the earliest game I have memories of playing when I was four or five. I love 1 and 2 to death, and I love Curse as well. A lot of my sense of humor, personality and taste in storytelling can be traced back to 90s point 'n clicks, Monkey Island possibly more than any of them (DOTT and Full Throttle close behind).
I was going to say their time has passed, and while it has, the Double Fine remasters seem to have been received pretty well, so I suppose there's at least something left there (though I imagine a new game like MI 3a would still never happen). It's a shame the MI1-2 remasters came out when they did and weren't handled with a bit more care.
Tales gets too much shit, it started out rough but it began to turn around in ep3 and was pretty strong by the end.
Edit: I don't think the "PotC writer had been on the Monkey Island project" thing is true, unfortunately, or at least there's no evidence of it that I've ever seen. Still, even without that, there's an amusing thread between PotC, On Stranger Tides and Monkey Island, the former two (ride and book) having influenced the latter.
Edit edit: It warms my heart whenever John Vignocchi mentions Monkey Island re: Disney Infinity dream characters.
MI1 (specifically a demo included in a pack of blank floppies my dad got) is the earliest game I have memories of playing when I was four or five. I love 1 and 2 to death, and I love Curse as well. A lot of my sense of humor, personality and taste in storytelling can be traced back to 90s point 'n clicks, Monkey Island possibly more than any of them (DOTT and Full Throttle close behind).
I was going to say their time has passed, and while it has, the Double Fine remasters seem to have been received pretty well, so I suppose there's at least something left there (though I imagine a new game like MI 3a would still never happen). It's a shame the MI1-2 remasters came out when they did and weren't handled with a bit more care.
Tales gets too much shit, it started out rough but it began to turn around in ep3 and was pretty strong by the end.
Edit: I don't think the "PotC writer had been on the Monkey Island project" thing is true, unfortunately, or at least there's no evidence of it that I've ever seen. Still, even without that, there's an amusing thread between PotC, On Stranger Tides and Monkey Island, the former two (ride and book) having influenced the latter.
Edit edit: It warms my heart whenever John Vignocchi mentions Monkey Island re: Disney Infinity dream characters.
DownGrader
Member
Count me in! Although I have to admit I have played Curse only once and a very long time ago, and I skipped Escape. MI2 might be the best point'n'click ever made.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I don't think so, we're just not really being served. I would imagine that a well done remaster of Curse would sell as well as or better than the Grim Fandango remaster. It would definitely do better than the Day of the Tentacle remaster. Not knocking either of those great games, but I'm pretty sure Monkey Island is a bigger name.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It's the way all video game series go if no new entries are made. Even the Chrono fanbase is dieing off after SE killed all the fan projects. A Curse of MI Special Edition could reignite the fanbase a bit but it doesn't seem in development sadly.
I would love a sequel in the style of Curse of Monkey Island. Damn, i really loved the first three games.
Besides, do anyone remember the comic someone made on WorldofMI which followed the games? I really liked it but i don't think it was ever finished. I could have paid a good amount of money for a physical version.
EDIT: Here it is!
Besides, do anyone remember the comic someone made on WorldofMI which followed the games? I really liked it but i don't think it was ever finished. I could have paid a good amount of money for a physical version.
EDIT: Here it is!
The movie thing is true: confirmed by Steve Purcell, Dave Grossman and Tim Schafer (and others). Terry Rossio was the writer attached to the animated Monkey Island movie, and he later did Black Pearl. The On Stranger Tides link wasn't accidental, and there are a lot of obvious links between the movies and the games. The movies are obviously their own thing now, but it did start as an animated Monkey Island movie at one point.
The reason why people directly involved with the movie couldn't comment on it was because, at the time of the first movies, Lucasarts wasn't a property of Disney yet. I remember some interviews where they asked Rossio about it and all he could do was nod and mention the 'can't confirm or deny'. It's different now obviously, and maybe they're more free to talk about it in coming interviews.
I do remember that they mentioned that they did look at On Stranger Tides specifically because it (along with the Disney attraction) directly influenced Monkey Island.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Yeah, having the original VGA games with the new voicework is absolutely the best thing to happen to the franchise relative to anything else. The new artwork was really bad but their foresight in letting us toggle it away and still keep the voices was great.
The Lamonster
Member
The (excellent) remakes were recently made backwards compatible on Xbox One, and still occasionally go on sale on Steam.
That said, where the F is the Curse remake
That said, where the F is the Curse remake
old manatee
Banned
Sounds like the beating of the Tell-Tale Heart.
Baron_Calamity
Member
I loved Tales. It's probably my favorite Telltale game. It sounded like they were going to do more but then Lucasarts imploded (again) and then it got sold to disney. At the time, Telltale couldn't wait so they moved on.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I'm still here but I'm not sure how to express my enthusiasm vocally. I played MI 1-3, loved them, still do and that's that. Don't really care for remasters or non-Lucas Arts MIs.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I almost with Telltale never touched this series. The games they made were a rare case of a game that was so ugly that I couldn't stomach it. I'll come back to them someday though. It is MI after all.