And if we want to get extravagant, the 200GB MicoSD card from your link is $79 which is still cheaper than that 64GB Vita memory card.
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The Vita Memory Card Price Criticism is Unfair
- Thread starter Jimrpg
- Start date
And if we want to get extravagant, the 200GB MicoSD card from your link is $79 which is still cheaper than that 64GB Vita memory card.
The 3DS had a unique selling point with the 3D that no one could compete with, that's why they could afford to price it a little bit higher.
Conversely Sony's strategy may have been to try and get as close as they could to the 3DS price to steal some customers and higher memory cards, lower hardware cost would give the perception of 'value'.
Thanks!
I made some more comments further in the thread and tried to back up claims in the OP about hardware costs for 3DS and Vita that try to show the hardware/memory card pricing strategy.
There's a bit more further basis for my arguments here.
I don't think that's what Sony wanted when the Vita was released because the 3DS was much cheaper and they had to get closer to the 3DS to take some sales away.
And they are different systems with different target audiences in mind, but at some point there are going to be people trying to decide between both.
Noisepurge
Member
People "accept" Apple's insane prices because they have a good product that people will just suck up and pay. The complaints are there every generation still and the endless comparisons to Android phones that have microSD slots 
It looked really scummy: Buy the Vita for XXX! (oh yeah and you also have to pay extra bucks for our expensive memory cards).
I can imagine the rage I´d have felt if I´d bought a Vita not knowing about memory cards and later found I had to get one. It wasn´t a way to make the console cheaper, it was a way to split the cost in separate items to try to trick the consumer into thinking the price of the console was cheaper than it really was. And it was also a way to cash in more money from people who bought more than 1 memory card. People saw through it and that helped Vita get the sales it currently has. You can trick some people, but sooner or later (thanks to internet more sooner than later) the truth will be exposed and your strategy will give you more harm than good.
If your device costs XXX and that turns out to be too far from your desired price you shouldn´t try to trick the customer into paying XXX, instead you should go back to the design board and downgrade until you get a product that can be sold without using scummy tactics.
I can imagine the rage I´d have felt if I´d bought a Vita not knowing about memory cards and later found I had to get one. It wasn´t a way to make the console cheaper, it was a way to split the cost in separate items to try to trick the consumer into thinking the price of the console was cheaper than it really was. And it was also a way to cash in more money from people who bought more than 1 memory card. People saw through it and that helped Vita get the sales it currently has. You can trick some people, but sooner or later (thanks to internet more sooner than later) the truth will be exposed and your strategy will give you more harm than good.
If your device costs XXX and that turns out to be too far from your desired price you shouldn´t try to trick the customer into paying XXX, instead you should go back to the design board and downgrade until you get a product that can be sold without using scummy tactics.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
People "accept" Apple's insane prices because they have a good product that people will just suck up and pay. The complaints are there every generation still and the endless comparisons to Android phones that have microSD slots
PS Vita was and is an awesome product, memory card disputed point aside, so
?This is a terrible post. First you are comparing flash memory which is pretty slow to according to a tests from anandtech, best in the cellphone industry iPhone memory. Their prices are overpriced but you're comparing apples to snails, and their pricing scheme is in line with other cell phone makers. Sony sold their cards for more than 1 dollar per gig, when a micro SD goes for 50 cents per gb for some of the higher end cards.it was a cash grab.
GamingOblivion
Banned
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I honestly think that with 1-2 GB of onboard ganes accessible flash storage built in the base model they could have avoided all of this controversy and still pushed external memory cards.
People who buy physical games would have no hidden cost, it would be enough memory to save for all your games, and you could still download some small games from the store.
ColdDeckEd
Member
Until you had to buy a memory card...
I don't understand your "Sony was really looking out for you" perspective. They saved themselves money by not having to put internal storage, really.
Let's not be delusional here it was a business decision to get to a more attractive price point, however, it wasn't the true cost of the system and that's where the problem is with a lot of people, myself included.
Noisepurge
Member
PS Vita was and is an awesome product, memory card disputed point aside, so
sure, and many have done the same, suck up and pay
it's just not as popular as the iPhone so they sure could use a lower pricerange to attract more customers PS Vita was and is an awesome product, memory card disputed point aside, so
The correct phrasing of the post you quoted would be: People accept Apple's prices because they have a product that people want.
Expensive memory cards didn't help the Vita, but it's never been the primary reason why the platform failed. The truth of the matter is that Sony targeted a market that quite simply doesn't exist (outside of Japan). People don't want a premium handheld, since most "gamers" (I hate that word) are completely satisfied with their consoles and PCs, on the other hand the Vita was too expensive to appeal to the kids market. You might think $250 was cheap for what the Vita offered, but that's not the way the market perceived its price. It's an expensive device.
What's left is the niche audience the Vita eventually appealed to. Sales might have been better with more affordable memory cards, but it would have only lead to a somewhat bigger niche. Nothing that would have changed the fate of the system in one direction or the other.
ForsakenLotus
Member
It's the combination of exorbitant prices AND proprietary storage solutions. If the prices were cheaper, people wouldn't complain that much. If it wasnt proprietary storage, it wouldn't be expensive because if it was they would sell even less than they do now. I own a Vita just by the way.
And comparing it to Apple isn't valid, and even it you do it doesn't excuse Apple's price gouging for anything but the base storage capacity.
-sent from an iPhone 6s
And comparing it to Apple isn't valid, and even it you do it doesn't excuse Apple's price gouging for anything but the base storage capacity.
-sent from an iPhone 6s
Yup, this system does not age well.
I would go as far to say that the vita cards was part of the reason for the systems failure. They are charing people extrordinary amounts so that they could hold more purchased games on the device. I don't see business logic at all. PS3 having internal HD upgrades with standard drives garnered some good will and made people proud to have large libraries on the their device after upgrading. If you bought a massive vita card it felt shameful, at least it did for me...
Ok if not iPhone memory, then the PS3, 360, PS4 and XONE then. They all have tiers to charge people who are willing to pay more.
Yeah that could´ve been a nice solution, though then the base price of the console would´ve been higher.
You put it in words much better than I did.
But you can buy a 8GB card if you don't want to buy the 32GB/64GB version (with the increased margins).
So we agree on the bolded!
Nimmermehr
Neo Member
I would've bought much more on all the digital sales if i had a decent amount of storage space on this thing.
The stupid prices of the memory cards, the inability to switch between two of them and the godawful backup software make it to much of a hassle for me to buy anything digital.
This is especially bad, because you can't get any games in retail (at least in europe).
So yes, the memory cards are part of what ruined the Vita for me.
The stupid prices of the memory cards, the inability to switch between two of them and the godawful backup software make it to much of a hassle for me to buy anything digital.
This is especially bad, because you can't get any games in retail (at least in europe).
So yes, the memory cards are part of what ruined the Vita for me.
/thread
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Nah, I'd say criticism is 100% justified for the many reasons already stated in this thread. Especially if you were one of those people that screwed over by Sony removing multi-account support in one of the early updates.
foolishoptimist
Member
I'm sure you are right. Sony may well have made a stack more money off the platform overall, but it might well be just as dead or deader(in terms of software support) by now.
But Sony were planning for success, and planning to protect that success. But it didn't come. And if it weren't for the rise of Mobile Gaming, they may well have had the sales numbers to allow more price drops on the memory cards. I'm sure we'd still be here complaining about the price difference though
There was a big drop around 2008 and another big drop in 2010. There was also a big skew towards Japanese releases only also. As far as Western developers went, it dropped off very quickly. Of course, those drops could well have more do do with the rise of the App store. But I worked at a game dev at the time, and it was perceived that that was the cause, and the reason we did not release the sequel to a successful PSP game on that platform.
RealityCheque
Banned
Proprietary cards are bullshit. Sony had so much paranoia after the PSP that they decided to punish their next generation of customers and make a tidy extra profit while they were at it.
Stop making excuses for their shitty mistakes.
Stop making excuses for their shitty mistakes.
Yeah.
And looking back, Vita looks worse off than it did because of the decisions they made. From all the expensive tech inside to off-setting some of its price to memory cards, they couldn't do a price drop, they couldn't react to Nintendo with their $80 price drop or react to the rise of mobile and tablets. Too much money went into the Vita that there was so little they could do. Vita didn't drop in price until 2 years later and by then the 3DS was in full swing and still cheaper.
... The Vita used to support multiple accounts? Really?
ColdDeckEd
Member
But you can buy a 8GB card if you don't want to buy the 32GB/64GB version (with the increased margins).
So we agree on the bolded!
There's no argument that its nice that you get to choose how much memory you want, just like any SD card. Sure you can buy an 8gb because that 32 is too much, but if it was SD, your choice would be should I get this 16 or 128gb card. And that's the problem.
If we agree they why are you saying criticism is unfair?
BibiMaghoo
Member
No, it is spot on. Even discounted they are too expensive for something the system requires to use.
KojiKnight
Member
Again, being proprietary had nothing top do with securing the device... If Sony thought that was a real concern, they wouldn't let you use any of the shelf parts for any of their consoles (see external and internal hdds for ps4).
This was primarily a money grab, and maybe secondarily a means to guarantee performance in terms if speed for developers.
spazimoose
Member
A phone's built in flash memory is generally much faster than an SD card would be. If the Vita's memory card had those kinds of speeds I might be more inclined to agree with you. But the fact is that vita memory cards are clearly a version of Sony's proprietary "Memory Stik" format, more specifically the M2 card. In informal tests its clear the performance just isn't there. Sony tried to squeeze everyone for a little extra with the memory cards. There's just no two ways about it.
(maybe you could argue they did it to prop up their failing memory card business but that is neither here nor there)
SprachBrooks
Member
I never recommended the Vita to anyone precisely because of the overpriced memory cards. It's not unfair to criticise a shitty business practise.
I don´t think the reason behind the memory cards was piracy. PS1, PS2, Wii, PSP and DS sold like a truck in Spain because they could be pirated (obviously this was not the only reason, but for a lot of people it was a decissive one*) and I can imagine it was the same in other countries. That helped them reach a lot of customers who wouldn´t consider spending money in games, so it´s not like Nintendo and Sony were losing money because of piracy, they were actually using it (willingly or not) to get sales they wouldn´t have got otherwise. Besides, even those people who wouldn´t buy games eventually bought or had bought for them something for a present, an add-on (Singtar was huge in Spain, or additional Wiimotes for multiplayer). I remember a Christmas where everyone in my family gifted the others legally bought DS games (Brain Training and Nintendogs mostly) because everyone had the system.
Sony was totally in it´s right to try to stop piracy, but when you explicitly go out of your way and take decissions that also hurt your honest users then you can´t expect anything good in return.
*PS2 had other things going like Singstar, Buzz and DVD player, Wii had the motion controls, the DS had Brain Training and Nintendogs...but PS1 in Spain was really successful mostly because of "free games, lol".
Sony was totally in it´s right to try to stop piracy, but when you explicitly go out of your way and take decissions that also hurt your honest users then you can´t expect anything good in return.
*PS2 had other things going like Singstar, Buzz and DVD player, Wii had the motion controls, the DS had Brain Training and Nintendogs...but PS1 in Spain was really successful mostly because of "free games, lol".
Candescence
Member
No, the proprietary cards were bullshit and inexcusable. SD cards are cheap, widely-available and easily used for multiple things, you can't say the same for the Vita's memory cards, which were way more expensive AND slower. Count me as one of the people who love the Vita but hate the memory cards.
This was a key problem, why not let people use a cheap, large SD card and make the money by having them fill it up with games? Standard Vita games fill out a modest memory card in no time at all.
I love the Vita but the expensive proprietary cards are indefensible. Even Nintendo lets people use whatever card they want and both their 3DS games and the back catalogue available in the eshop take up a lot less space.
Because I believe that regardless of whether they used proprietary memory cards or SD cards, they would have charged the same amount and gotten the same money per customer. Its just that the margin is on the memory card and not on the system and that's why it looks bad.
Of course that logic could be used on absolutely anything, like the water in this restaurant is $10 but the food is real cheap. But that doesn't get as much flack as Vita memory cards.
Is it because they feel left out?
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Anyone else think that the memory cards' insane pricing also possibly led to Sony maybe not doing another handheld? I mean, I want them to make another, but yeah...
KojiKnight
Member
It's obviously anecdotal, but I know I bought fewer games during sales because I knew I couldn't keep them all on my 16gb card at the same time.
Toadthemushroom
Member
You can't compare the two models of offering storage because they work in fundamentally different ways, which is pretty much why people perceive them differently.
The iPhone, and iOS, is built around buying really speedy onboard storage as part of the device, and there are free, ample, cloud storage options for basically everything you might do on the device if you need them.
PS Vita puts the cost of all onboard storage on the consumer, but instead of giving the consumer best-in-class storage speeds and alternatives that make that storage less of a problem, owners are saddled with terrible read/write speeds (~7MB/s read speeds ~6MB/s write speeds), which hamper game load times, and poorly thought-out data management options (deleting a game deletes its save, games often have large patches which operate on top of the initial game file, cloud storage is locked behind a paid subscription).
Because PS Vita storage is comparable to devices that support expandable storage, I think it's absolutely fair that it's scrutinised under the same means. Moreso given how it's mandatory to the device, and not just an extra.
---
On the subject of read/write performance (emphasis mine):
Digital Foundry said:
The comparable iPhone at the time, the iPhone 5, was delivering 20MB/s sequential write performance, or 2-3x the performance of Vita writes and 125MB/s sequential read performance, or 18x the performance of Vita reads, going off both AnandTech and Digital Foundry's analysis.
And here's how things stack up in 2015:
So I don't think you can compare expandable storage to say, the iPhone's internal storage, which was up to 18x as fast as Vita memory cards four years ago, and is in a completely different league today.
They had those mega value memory card packs with 5 games and a memory card for the price of a game.
That was good value.
But they didn't sell the memory inside the console I guess to offer more flexibility at retail in terms of stock. Much easier to move one Vita SKU and memory cards than multiple Vita SKUs.
Kresnik258
Member
The biggest outrage about memory cards is that it's 2016 and I still can't buy a 128GB card from anywhere.
Sony has always had overpriced memory cards. Starting with the PSone, the PS2 and then the Vita. It's nothing new. Like nearly all peripherals, they pretty much never get a decent price cut even towards the end of the consoles lifespan.
I'm still waiting for half price or less (official) DS3 controllers
I'm still waiting for half price or less (official) DS3 controllers
foolishoptimist
Member
AU$120 to let me carry around AU$1-2K worth of games... Worth it.
Of course cheaper and/or bigger memory would be an improvement.
You're comparing the PSone card to Floppy disks, just so you know.
Diprosalic
Banned
I stopped buying games for the vita because i ran out of space and i wasn't willing to buy a memcard for those prices.
So i just threw it in the trash and played on my 3ds.
So i just threw it in the trash and played on my 3ds.
No OP, Sony made a mistake and unfortunately for them it definitely had a big impact on the lifespan of this device. Another mistake they made was the proprietary connector/cable needed to charge this thing. At least they were able to make up for that in their latest hardware revision...
The Vita cards aren't very good technically (and worse now), so if you look at the cards by themselves with that price tag of course its going to look bad.
Most people buy a system together with a memory card so they should be looked at together.
Toadthemushroom
Member
The Wii U, with its puny amount of onboard NAND, is scarcely derided for it since you can use a plug and play USB storage device to remedy the problem. Most people don't buy Wii Us with USB hard drives, much like how most people don't buy 3DSes with 64GB microSD cards, since they are ubiquitous enough to work as non-mandatory storage.
I think the question you're asking won't be answered unless we run history twice. The Vita was originally meant to ship with 16GB of onboard NAND and expandable storage, much like the PSP go.
But even if we did perceive the Vita's true cost as one whole cost of system + memory card, little would change - the format would have had a reputation of being too costly, and future price cuts to the system would mean Sony wouldn't earn huge profits off the included memory itself.
SinCityAssassin
Member
9 mediocre games no one wanted (And Wipeout) in an 8 GB card that will fill up when you add those games in anyways? Won't fool me. (Also those mega packs were never available in America)
You don't need the water to enjoy your meal though, even then you can buy a different drink afterwards outside of the goddamn restaurant for your needs. I'd still give flack for the restaurant being really insane, but at least I have options open to me. Unlike the memory card, as there's only one kind and there are no other options.