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[Panajev2001a]

I would love for Nintendo to finally allow moving your VC library from console to console without buying them once again. If they won't, i'll just stop supporting it. I'm not buying LttP or other games for a fourth time!

The extra charge to update the games for a Wii U VC was totally worth it... how else would you become thirsty to purchase those games again when they presented you the "NES Classic - we fixed a software emulator edition" ? .

 

[morikaze]

The extra charge to update the games for a Wii U VC was totally worth it... how else would you become thirsty to purchase those games again when they presented you the "NES Classic - we fixed a software emulator edition" ? .

They should have NERD work on new emulators for the Switch VC. Also at this point there should not be any cost to transfer your VC collection to the Switch since it will be at the same resolution with probably no other improvements.

 

[Skittzo0413]

I still think the "leak" in the OP is fake, as it comes from a source who claimed that Nvidia was not involved before the Oct. 20th reveal, and who somehow came up with this "leak" right after the reveal trailer. And because it essentially describes a standard TX1, while we know from Nvidia that the SoC in the Switch is custom.

Now, apparently insiders have indicated that this fake leak is close to the real thing, which I guess isn't terribly surprising given Eurogamer has indicated the devkits are in fact using stock TX1s. How close this is to the final retail unit remains to be seen, and I'm not sure if insiders have indicated that the final unit will be this close or if there will be any modifications made (that they do or do not know about).

Either way, I guess this does give us a good idea of what's in the devkits, which should be fairly similar to what's in the final unit, going by recent console launches.

 

[Spinluck]

No USB type C?

 

[Plinko]

No USB type C?

I believe Laura when she says this is happening.

 

[LordOcidax]

No USB type C?

This leaks are fake.

 

[foltzie1]

No USB type C?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1301623

 

[Dark Cloud]

This leaks are fake.

Everything is fake.

 

[Rodin]

Considering that what Emily said (4GB RAM and basically the same GPU as TX1) and the stuff in the op are pretty much the same thing, i'm not sure i understand what they mean with "custom tegra chip" if they went with the exact same hardware configuration and clockspeed as TX1, only at a different node. PS4 and Xbox One are considered "semi-custom" designs and the differences compared to the original designs are much bigger. This is not "custom", it's just horrible.

I'm also curious to hear how 4 A57 cores are considerably better than 6-7 Jaguar cores.

 

[Spinluck]

I believe Laura when she says this is happening.

This leaks are fake.

Everything is fake.

 

[Oregano]

Considering that what Emily said (4GB RAM and basically the same GPU as TX1) and the stuff in the op are pretty much the same thing, i'm not sure i understand what they mean with "custom tegra chip" if they went with the exact same hardware configuration and clockspeed as TX1, only at a different node. PS4 and Xbox One are considered "semi-custom" designs and the differences compared to the original designs are much bigger. This is not "custom", it's just horrible.

I'm also curious to hear how 4 A57 cores are considerably better than 6-7 Jaguar cores.

I thought all Emily said was that the retail version also has 4GB of RAM. There's probably all kinds of under the hood changes Nintendo could have asked for. I'm no expert though.

 

[mcfrank]

I would love for Nintendo to finally allow moving your VC library from console to console without buying them once again. If they won't, i'll just stop supporting it. I'm not buying LttP or other games for a fourth time!

Same. If this has similar horse power to Wii U, then I don't expect Zelda to run that much better on it. If I can't port my wiiu virtual games over, I will not get a switch.

 

[Oregano]

Same. If this has similar horse power to Wii U, then I don't expect Zelda to run that much better on it. If I can't port my wiiu virtual games over, I will not get a switch.

Zelda might not run better on it but the stock X1 that is in the dev kits is nearly three times as powerful as the Wii U and more modern.

 

[StickSoldier]

So if they aren't fake, how does it compare to the next to consoles?

 

[Easy_D]

They kinda did that with the quick launch menu on Wii U right? I wonder if they'll build in something similar for the Switch

Wasn't there an option in the 3DS for it to boot directly into a game if you have a cart inserted as well?

Same. If this has similar horse power to Wii U, then I don't expect Zelda to run that much better on it. If I can't port my wiiu virtual games over, I will not get a switch.

Plenty of people who know their shit say it'll be at least twice as good, worst case scenario.

 

[Rodin]

I thought all Emily said was that the retail version also has 4GB of RAM. There's probably all kinds of under the hood changes Nintendo could have asked for. I'm no expert though.

That would still count as semi-custom though.

About the GPU

Emily Rogers ‏@ArcadeGirl64 10 h10 ore fa Visualizza traduzione
@ArcadeGirl64 I was told before that Nvidia's custom Tegra chip is pretty similar to Tegra X1. So these specs might not be farfetched. (3/3)

She was referring to the specs in the op of this thread.

Plenty of people who know their shit say it'll be at least twice as good, worst case scenario.

Which would be a pathetic jump over an already super weak console for a new generation, the PS4->PS4 Pro gap is bigger than that GPU wise, and Xbox One-> Scorpio is even larger. I understand there are limitations to what can be done with mobile hardware and this form factor, but it doesn't look like they even approached those limits if the latest rumors are true. That being said, it's more like 3x Wii U, which is still underwhelming considering that this is the only new hardware they're making atm.

 

[Doctre81]

A72 was never realistic. Even Parker still uses the A57.

It uses A57's PLUS two more powerful Denver 2.0 cores.

 

[Plinko]

Which is a pathetic jump over an already super weak console. I understand there are limitations to what can be done with mobile hardware and this form factor, but it doesn't look like they even approached those limits if the latest rumors are true.

Which, again, matches the only rumors about price that we've had. Nintendo wants to target a mass market pricepoint for impulse buys. "Surprisingly low" according to MCV.

They aren't competing with Sony/MS on power. It's never happening. It never was this time around.

The only way they try and hit those levels is with SCD add-ons, which patents show are most likely coming some time in the future.

 

[Skittzo0413]

That would still count as semi-custom though.

About the GPU

She was referring to the specs in the op of this thread.



Which is a pathetic jump over an already super weak console. I understand there are limitations to what can be done with mobile hardware and this form factor, but it doesn't look like they even approached those limits if the latest rumors are true.

I don't know if there's actually a difference between "semi-custom" and "custom" beyond who is using each phrase. The specs do seem a bit underwhelming but reports from Matt and OsirisBlack indicating that there should be no technical trouble with porting PS4/XB1 games is encouraging.

The other thing about these specs, if true, is that they definitely suggest (to me anyway) a $199 price point which is very exciting. If this can indeed get AAA multiplats without too much porting trouble (again, depends more on third party RoI if we'll see them) then maybe compromising a bit on specs to ensure a very low price point is a welcome trade-off.

Which, again, matches the only rumors about price that we've had. Nintendo wants to target a mass market pricepoint for impulse buys. "Surprisingly low" according to MCV.

They aren't competing with Sony/MS on power. It's never happening. It never was this time around.

The only way they try and hit those levels is with SCD add-ons, which patents show are most likely coming some time in the future.

Bingo. Nintendo will see a LOT more success by using lower specs with a lower price than they would the other way around. Lower price increases the install base, increases the projected RoI on third party ports, everyone wins (except those who want the best visual experience for AAA games, which would be an odd thing to expect from a Nintendo console anyway).

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

How are people, in 2016, still expecting a Nintendo console/handheld to even match Sony or Microsoft, power-wise?

 

[Rodin]

Which, again, matches the only rumors about price that we've had. Nintendo wants to target a mass market pricepoint for impulse buys. "Surprisingly low" according to MCV.

They aren't competing with Sony/MS on power. It's never happening. It never was this time around.

It's not like "approaching the limitations of what mobile hardware can do in this form factor" means competing with Sony and Microsoft in power. I expected 768 gflops when docked at most, and less than that when used standalone to target 720p and save some battery. I don't give a shit about competing, but i do care about them putting good hardware in this thing for what it is, especially if they expect me to pay more than 199$ for 4GB of RAM, an old CPU and certainly not the best GPU they could get. Otherwise it's just a tax that i have to pay to access Nintendo games.

I always said i didn't like the hybrid concept because it could mean having the worst of both worlds, and it sounds like that's exactly what we're getting. Sorry if i'm not excited by these rumors.

I don't know if there's actually a difference between "semi-custom" and "custom" beyond who is using each phrase. The specs do seem a bit underwhelming but reports from Matt and OsirisBlack indicating that there should be no technical trouble with porting PS4/XB1 games is encouraging.

The other thing about these specs, if true, is that they definitely suggest (to me anyway) a $199 price point which is very exciting. If this can indeed get AAA multiplats without too much porting trouble (again, depends more on third party RoI if we'll see them) then maybe compromising a bit on specs to ensure a very low price point is a welcome trade-off

I hope you're right about the price, because that's the max i'm willing to happily pay to get this thing (with the rumored specs it's not worth more than that imho), but i doubt they'll sell this in a few months at the same price they're asking for a new 3DS now. We'll see i guess.

How are people, in 2016, still expecting a Nintendo console/handheld to even match Sony or Microsoft, power-wise?

Yeah keep moving the goalpost people. This is going to work.

 

[guek]

Which, again, matches the only rumors about price that we've had. Nintendo wants to target a mass market pricepoint for impulse buys. "Surprisingly low" according to MCV.

They aren't competing with Sony/MS on power. It's never happening. It never was this time around.

The only way they try and hit those levels is with SCD add-ons, which patents show are most likely coming some time in the future.

Price is really a big factor. I'll be bummed if they short change the specs again but it'll hard to be too peeved if the thing only costs like $200.

It's just hard to expect that though with the current price of the Wii U and 3DS.

 

[nikatapi]

Price is really a big factor. I'll be bummed if they short change the specs again but it'll hard to be too peeved if the thing only costs like $200.

It's just hard to expect that though with the current price of the Wii U and 3DS.

Indeed, price will make everything clearer and will be a deciding factor for many buyers. GameCube was a prime example of a greatly engineered console for a very attractive price. 3DS (launch) and WiiU were both more expensive and the perceived value was lower at least in terms of computing capabilities. But of course Wii was also expensive for the tech it had but it was very attractive due to it's games and gimmick.

Unfortunately i don't expect Switch to be very affordable given what we know and how Nintendo will probably not sell it at a small loss.

 

[Durante]

How are people, in 2016, still expecting a Nintendo console/handheld to even match Sony or Microsoft, power-wise?

Well, it will hugely outperform the only Sony hardware in the same class

 

[Fourth Storm]

Sorry to be that guy asking to be caught up, but where are we getting rumors on the OS overhead? I have to say, I was hoping for 6 GB. I'm starting to think that Switch as "a home console first" is not a very good stance at this point. Then again, the battery life is reported as poor. I'm still enthusiastic about the potential first party lineup (hoping those rumored ports have lots of extra content--not having a full Splatoon and Mario Kart sequel any time soon is disappointing).

The modern architecture sounds promising. The low RAM for a home console and lack of USB HDD support is worrisome, however. C'mon, Nintendo. Don't blow this.

 

[LordRaptor]

I'm also curious to hear how 4 A57 cores are considerably better than 6-7 Jaguar cores.

Its the same answer as "who is faster, 4 college professors or 6-7 office workers?" - it entirely depends on what they're doing.

Digging a hole, where everyones all working on the same thing at the same time and its just a manpower issue? The 6-7 office workers.
Doing a 'relay race' of complex calculations, where one person can't start working until the previous man has finished? The college professors are going to tear ahead in getting the task done, because the speed and quality of the individual is much more important than how many people are present.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Sorry to be that guy asking to be caught up, but where are we getting rumors on the OS overhead? I have to say, I was hoping for 6 GB. I'm starting to think that Switch as "a home console first" is not a very good stance at this point. Then again, the battery life is reported as poor. I'm still enthusiastic about the potential first party lineup (hoping those rumored ports have lots of extra content--not having a full Splatoon and Mario Kart sequel any time soon is disappointing).

The modern architecture sounds promising. The low RAM for a home console and lack of USB HDD support is worrisome, however. C'mon, Nintendo. Don't blow this.

Starts from this post and goes on.

Essentially, user Vern is an insider who has talked to the mods already and reported a few things about the Switch throughout the various threads, including 4GB of RAM with 3.2 for games. If I recall correctly he also confirmed that charging the Switch in the dock does indeed allow the GPU to upclock and output at 1080p, and has hinted that the Switch will include a mic and camera in some capacity.

 

[nikatapi]

Sorry to be that guy asking to be caught up, but where are we getting rumors on the OS overhead? I have to say, I was hoping for 6 GB. I'm starting to think that Switch as "a home console first" is not a very good stance at this point. Then again, the battery life is reported as poor. I'm still enthusiastic about the potential first party lineup (hoping those rumored ports have lots of extra content--not having a full Splatoon and Mario Kart sequel any time soon is disappointing).

The modern architecture sounds promising. The low RAM for a home console and lack of USB HDD support is worrisome, however. C'mon, Nintendo. Don't blow this.

HDD support is reasonable to not exist, given the hybrid nature of the system, but ram seems low indeed, especially if we are talking about a system with a planned 5-year lifecycle. 1080p gaming when docked seems more unprobable now...

 

[Vena]

Then again, the battery life is reported as poor.

Matt said more like 4 for gaming from what he'd heard so far.

 

[The Boat]

Don't games on cards need less RAM because they access data locally?

 

[benny_a]

So this table is not wasted

| Name    | System | Video  | Total   |
|---------+--------+--------+---------|
| 3DS     | 128 MB | 6 MB   | 0.13 GB |
| New 3ds | 256 MB | 10 MB  | 0.27 GB |
| PS3     | 256 MB | 256 MB | 0.51 GB |
| 360     | -      | -      | 0.51 GB |
| Vita    | 512 MB | 128 MB | 0.64 GB |
| Wii U   | -      | -      | 2.05 GB |
| Switch  | -      | -      | 4.10 GB |
| PS4     | -      | -      | 8.19 GB |
| XB1     | -      | -      | 8.22 GB |

 

[Oregano]

Matt said more like 4 for gaming from what he'd heard so far.

I can live with 4 hours. It's not great but I can live with it. Especially if it uses USB.

 

[Vena]

HDD support is reasonable to not exist, given the hybrid nature of the system, but ram seems low indeed, especially if we are talking about a system with a planned 5-year lifecycle. 1080p gaming when docked seems more unprobable now...

Nah that's not a resolution limiter, it has other limits though on things that generally get stored in RAM and limiting their sizes, like asset quality.

 

[Rodin]

Its the same answer as "who is faster, 4 college professors or 6-7 office workers?" - it entirely depends on what they're doing.

Digging a hole, where everyones all working on the same thing at the same time and its just a manpower issue? The 6-7 office workers.
Doing a 'relay race' of complex calculations, where one person can't start working until the previous man has finished? The college professors are going to tear ahead in getting the task done, because the speed and quality of the individual is much more important than how many people are present.

My point is, I don't think the IPC is higher in A57 cores vs Jaguar, especially at the clock they can realistically achieve in a mobile device, which means the CPU can't be faster in pretty much any scenario. Maybe blu can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong. Not that any of this actually matters considering the rest of the hardware.

Anyway there's a reason if every recent mobile SoC doesn't use this crap instead of the newer, faster, smaller and less power hungry A72, which is why this would piss me off even more than the pathetic amount of RAM. This is still assuming the rumors are true obviously.

Ok time for the big question of the day.

Does a device using a disc based format require more RAM than a device that does not?

No

 

[pulsemyne]

The memory thing isn't as much of a problem as people think due to the use of carts as the game media. You don't have to store as much stuff in main memory when you can pull it off the cart very quickly. Either that or you just reduce texture detail from say the PC equivalent of high to medium. There's lots of ways to manage memory and in reality there will likely be about a gig difference in actual game sized memory.

 

[Doctre81]

Ok time for the big question of the day.

Does a device using a disc based format require more RAM than a device that does not? I have a feeling it probably does but I have nothing to back this up yet.

 

[nikatapi]

Nah that's not a resolution limiter, it has other limits though on things that generally get stored in RAM and limiting their sizes, like asset quality.

Yeah true that, but still as you said asset quality would be downgraded so it's not ideal.

 

[TheJoRu]

I can live with 4 hours. It's not great but I can live with it. Especially if it uses USB.

Agreed. It's not good, but if true it's at a level where I can say "that's acceptable" and it won't be too much of an inconvenience for me.

 

[Vena]

I can live with 4 hours. It's not great but I can live with it. Especially if it uses USB.

The final product will probably target the 3DS battery life. So anywhere from 3 to 5 or so hours. I don't see them getting much beyond that realistically, even with wifi and screen brightness down.

Yeah true that, but still as you said asset quality would be downgraded so it's not ideal.

I suspect there's a bit more to it from NVidia's software side, but only time will tell.

 

[Astral Dog]

4GB is very decent for a portable, but pretty low for a modern console imo, 6GB would have been fine and assured enough memory for both operating system and games.

Spoiler

still hyped for those exclusives

 

[Galava]

Ok time for the big question of the day.

Does a device using a disc based format require more RAM than a device that does not? I have a feeling it probably does but I have nothing to back this up yet.

Yes/no. You have to dump the disc data onto system and video memory because the read speeds from discs is very slow. Cartidges could act as system memory due to the fast read rates, but who knows.

 

[benny_a]

Ok time for the big question of the day.

Does a device using a disc based format require more RAM than a device that does not? I have a feeling it probably does but I have nothing to back this up yet.

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: Not really. One could make the argument for streaming capabilities and random access times but that's pretty technical. It's not a slam-dunk argument either, it hinges on many things being done right.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Starts from this post and goes on.

Essentially, user Vern is an insider who has talked to the mods already and reported a few things about the Switch throughout the various threads, including 4GB of RAM with 3.2 for games. If I recall correctly he also confirmed that charging the Switch in the dock does indeed allow the GPU to upclock and output at 1080p, and has hinted that the Switch will include a mic and camera in some capacity.

Nice! Thank you Skittzo! Personally, I think Nintendo should have built a system that could push Zelda, 3D Mario, and Mario Kart in 1080p while docked. If they have not done this with Switch, they've made a mistake in my book. The concept is cool, but not as strong as Wii where they can bank on that and that alone.

HDD support is reasonable to not exist, given the hybrid nature of the system, but ram seems low indeed, especially if we are talking about a system with a planned 5-year lifecycle. 1080p gaming when docked seems more unprobable now...

Why not give people the option to store things on an HDD, though? I don't think casual users are even aware that Wii U can do this. Would it really cause a harmful amount of confusion?

Matt said more like 4 for gaming from what he'd heard so far.

That's some good news. Thanks for relaying the message. I do think the battery life issue is overblown. At the same time, this really does validate many of the concerns people had about the concept of a hybrid in the first place.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I thought Emily had better cred on Neogaf? Lol her topic got closed.

 

[guek]

Matt said more like 4 for gaming from what he'd heard so far.

Do you happen to have a link?

4GB dedicated for games would be more palatable but sounds unlikely since 5GB wouldn't work and 6GB with 2GB reserved for OS is highly unlikely.

 

[Linkup]

4GB RAM, 32GB internal, and 16GB cartridges. System is going to be a beast.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Don't games on cards need less RAM because they access data locally?

That's my general hope. Admittedly that'll still be somewhat troublesome for large, open world games as the system will have to swap more data in and out on the fly, but if the read speeds of the system are fast enough it should be able to generally mitigate that, especially if the file sizes aren't as larger as the other consoles.

 

[Mpl90]

Do you happen to have a link?

4GB dedicated for games would be more palatable but sounds unlikely since 5GB wouldn't work and 6GB with 2GB reserved for OS is highly unlikely.

He's talking about hours of battery life.

 

[Vena]

Do you happen to have a link?

4GB dedicated for games would be more palatable but sounds unlikely since 5GB wouldn't work and 6GB with 2GB reserved for OS is highly unlikely.

For battery.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Tegra X1 level GPU, 4GB RAM, it doesn't generally matter for a handheld, that will destroy Vita, 3DS and everything else, and i'm sure get a lot of Japanese support that 3DS and Vita both got. That's important.

How are people, in 2016, still expecting a Nintendo console/handheld to even match Sony or Microsoft, power-wise?

I don't think that's an issue generally. If devs want to do ports they can do them. The architecture will be far more similar to the FHD twins than Wii U was, and the power as well. Its just a matter of how much your willing to cut.

Nintendo recognizes this. So they figure they can go their own way, combine their development houses and third party 3DS partners together while at the same time getting some western third party support.

THink about it. Wii was way less powerful compared to 360 and PS3 than Switch will be to PS4 and XB1, and it got plenty of ports(pared down but still pretty decent versions, like Cod.