We can joke around, but in the end of the day this _is_ bribery, there are no other purposes for stash given away for free. This kind of bribery was more acceptable in the past (when I was an engineer in the automation business I used to get a lot of free stuff from tech businesses) but it's 2016 now and most of the western world has become very ethics focused. In my company we have specific ethics training about exactly bribery, and we are being told that there's a relatively high chance of getting fired if we accept more than a dinners worth from a customer.. Times have have clearly changed and for that reason I'm even more surprised the gaming industry rather blatantly doesn't follow suit
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Why do press kits exist?
- Thread starter thequickandthedead
- Start date
ClosingADoor
Member
It kind of is a stretch, since no respectable outlet would allow such a thing.
When you talk about bribery, it makes it seem as if the journalist is going along with it willingly and actually gives higher ratings because of this. That is simply not happening.
Is it that weird? Lots of people are ready to churn out money for collectors editions which often objectively have rather meager extras. Now add to that the exclusivity and that the journalists get it for free and it's hardly a surprise to see jealousy.
sublimit
Banned
JigglesBunny
Banned
Why do shadier publishers fly reviewers out to glorified weekend long parties? It's a wooing technique.
ClosingADoor
Member
The problem is, your narrative makes it seem that all journalists do this and it is the norm. While that is very much not the case. For all you know some random Youtube guy with a few thousand subscribers is liked by the local PR agency, gets sent a press kit and sells it a few months later. You can not make the jump from: "press kits are sometimes being sold" to "journalists are corrupt because this happens."LIEZ!! I don't believe you and journalists like this don't exist!!
As the guy that posted the video and pics in the original post, I feel a little obliged to post in here.
Press kits, on the whole, are *insanely* few and far between. 99 times out of 100 we'll get a game to review either as a download code or a promo disc (plain jewel case, red and white disc). That other one time though will be something a little more unique. Aside from Sony, the only press kits that I've seen for our site was Alien Isolation and Dark Souls 3. Oh, and we got a Lego Iron Man minifig for the Lego Avengers game.
In terms of "big things" this year, we've also received press kits for Uncharted 4, No Man's Sky, as well as a PS4 Pro and a PSVR Headset. We've also been totally up front about receiving them from Sony, and if people want to claim we're bumping scores up because of it, then so be it. We didn't actually score any of the hardware we've received this year, but it's allowed us to compete with "some of the big boys" on that front. I've made sure that everything we've received for the site is open and transparent, be it a press kit, a free piece of hardware, or a review copy.
Regarding why press kits exist, I dunno. It's mostly going to be sat on a shelf in an office somewhere. But ultimately, if a game is shit, I know I'm going to tell someone that it's shit. The "Press kits are just bribes to get good scores" argument is ridiculous IMHO. Anyone who gives a game a higher score because they got a feather and a couple of art cards in a package isn't really worthy of giving a game a score.
If people deem my review "wrong" because we got a press kit, then so be it. I got an Uncharted 4 one, I also gave that game 10/10. I'd have given it 10/10 if I'd needed to go and buy it on launch day. We got Titanfall 2 a day before the embargo, and our review went up after release. It's one of my games of the year and it got a 9/10 from me. Would that score have changed if we'd gotten it a week earlier and with a fancy box? No. I review the *games*, not the boxes they come in.
Oh, any stuff that we do get is usually prefaced with an agreement that it's for coverage only, and can't be lent or sold. Not only is selling it breaching that, but it's scummy as fuck and I'd never consider it.
Press kits, on the whole, are *insanely* few and far between. 99 times out of 100 we'll get a game to review either as a download code or a promo disc (plain jewel case, red and white disc). That other one time though will be something a little more unique. Aside from Sony, the only press kits that I've seen for our site was Alien Isolation and Dark Souls 3. Oh, and we got a Lego Iron Man minifig for the Lego Avengers game.
In terms of "big things" this year, we've also received press kits for Uncharted 4, No Man's Sky, as well as a PS4 Pro and a PSVR Headset. We've also been totally up front about receiving them from Sony, and if people want to claim we're bumping scores up because of it, then so be it. We didn't actually score any of the hardware we've received this year, but it's allowed us to compete with "some of the big boys" on that front. I've made sure that everything we've received for the site is open and transparent, be it a press kit, a free piece of hardware, or a review copy.
Regarding why press kits exist, I dunno. It's mostly going to be sat on a shelf in an office somewhere. But ultimately, if a game is shit, I know I'm going to tell someone that it's shit. The "Press kits are just bribes to get good scores" argument is ridiculous IMHO. Anyone who gives a game a higher score because they got a feather and a couple of art cards in a package isn't really worthy of giving a game a score.
If people deem my review "wrong" because we got a press kit, then so be it. I got an Uncharted 4 one, I also gave that game 10/10. I'd have given it 10/10 if I'd needed to go and buy it on launch day. We got Titanfall 2 a day before the embargo, and our review went up after release. It's one of my games of the year and it got a 9/10 from me. Would that score have changed if we'd gotten it a week earlier and with a fancy box? No. I review the *games*, not the boxes they come in.
Oh, any stuff that we do get is usually prefaced with an agreement that it's for coverage only, and can't be lent or sold. Not only is selling it breaching that, but it's scummy as fuck and I'd never consider it.
1 time in a thousand, it has a real influence on some blogger or journalist.
But usually, it doesn't. They do it because their competitors do it.
Stallion Dan
Member
Because having influenced swayed is completely different and not even provable, hence this topic.
Are plenty press kits out there and being sold, they come from somewhere. Sure some sites competition them away or deny them to its reviewers, but clearly plenty do not care.
We've had a small amount of press kits and those have never influenced us in the slightest. I understand that people think these kits are bribery but almost no one will be swayed by the dumb shit that's in it. The only people this really has an effect on is small YouTubers or bloggers who don't do the "journalism" thing and don't seem to realize that their opinion influences their audience. If you get swayed by a bunch of stickers, posters and dumb goodies you have no bussiness reviewing games. It's as simple as that.
finalflame
Gold Member
People in this thread seem to not recognize how strong of an unconscious bias you can get from these kinds of things. Just because as a journalist you don't think fancy press kits are influencing your opinion of the game, it doesn't mean they're not. We are constantly influenced by unconscious biases, and this is no exception.
Game companies do it because it works to raise review scores and reception in some capacity, whether you realize it or not. Otherwise they wouldn't spend the money, period.
Game companies do it because it works to raise review scores and reception in some capacity, whether you realize it or not. Otherwise they wouldn't spend the money, period.
So my opinion on Uncharted 4 was swayed by the fact it came in a fancy book? Yeah, no.
ClosingADoor
Member
Define "plenty". Let's say they make a 1000 of these things. There are certainly not hundreds of these editions popping up everywhere.
And we need to make a distinction between websites and blogs/Youtube that are run by just one person. I don't think the former will have any problems with this or see these things pop up on eBay or being influenced by it.
The other might, since they do not have a journalistic organisation with rules and experience in how to handle these things. You are then basically comparing a news organisation to a guy running his blog from his living room trying to score some free stuff.
Is the former corrupt because the latter does something unethical? Of course not.
If we go down that path, you might as well say that any positive contact between PR and media influences reviews. That is why serious outlets have guidelines and restrictions in place for their staff.
Would you count me in that bracket? I run our site from my home office. I have a 9-5. But I don't really consider it "trying to score some free stuff", and I've slated my fair share of games in the past. I'm trying to make our site as legitimate as possible, and opinions like that really don't help. Then throw into the mix "Oh press kits are bribery" and we're onto a loser before we've even started...
Probably not, but he has a point. Everyone here is drooling over the press kits, so you can't deny that many people (maybe not you) really enjoy receiving things like these, which makes their whole experience feel different than the consumer's.
It won't make a shit game seems great, but it can be the icing on the cake to get the best possible score.
HighResTomato
Member
They could also send these reviewers the disc and a PDF with info on it.
These premium review units are basically bribery, or attempted bribery.
edit:
Also I don't believe it's just the press review units, it's the events and sponsored items publishers do with outlets.
The "press" is way too cozy with publishers and the way these "journalists" praise and hype up their products doesn't come free.
These premium review units are basically bribery, or attempted bribery.
edit:
Also I don't believe it's just the press review units, it's the events and sponsored items publishers do with outlets.
The "press" is way too cozy with publishers and the way these "journalists" praise and hype up their products doesn't come free.
finalflame
Gold Member
I'm not saying a press kit will turn a bad review into a good review. But your overall sentiment towards a game or company based on all your previous experiences, some of which will include any PR contact and press kits, will influence how you feel as you play the game, yes. Humans are not capable of being entirely objective and unbiased. Companies have PR departments and do PR things because in its totality it helps boost the perception of their products.
I'm not saying this makes journalists corrupt or willing to engage in manipulating review scores because of press kits, far from it. Just that it does have some effect, no matter how slight, and the sum of all the things game company's PR departments do is greater than its parts.
I mean, yah, I'd tend to agree. That is why PR departments exist. I'm not saying this is a corrupt practice, but in general, it's why companies invest heavily in their PR departments and having "good" media relations.
If a food critic showed up to your restaurant you wouldn't send the pot smoking waiter to his table. It's not really bribery, it's just making a good impression. I know game jurnos get a bad rap for being corrupt man children but having an elegant package show up to your door isn't going to change a bad review to good.
My jaw hit the floor. DDD: The press gets these for free? Wow, I better wouldn't have known about this.
Like I said above, I'm reviewing what's on the disc. Not the box it comes in. To suggest people would do otherwise is ridiculous. I see why people can see it like that, but there's a responsibility for people.
They could also send these reviewers the disc and a PDF with info on it.
These premium review units are basically bribery, or attempted bribery.
That made me actually, legitimately, laugh out loud. Attempted bribery. You do realise that pretty much all of the reviews we do, everyone gets discs like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eve-Valky...587260?hash=item360d03ce7c:g:TAYAAOSw44BYLeyf or a digital download?
I've realised that I'm utterly fucked when it comes to posting my TLG review on GAF though. Give it a good score: "SEE, BRIBED BY PRESS KIT", give it a bad score: "You're just doing it to prove a point"
*sigh*
But they are actually changing the product you receive. The correct example would be giving the critic extra stuff (like an entrance/entreé) that wouldn't be given to a normal costumer.
The box is part of the experience. We are talking about subconscious effects. It's not ridiculous if you have some understanding of psychology.
But they aren't though. They're just changing the plate it's delivered on. The 1's and 0's on the disc are identical to everyone else's
sublimit
Banned
So you want me to believe that ALL those press kits that go for sale on ebay are only from "random Youtube guys with a few thousand subscribers" and not by any professional journalists?
Also it doesn't matter if the reviewer is affected or not by "gifts" like these.Some will some will not.Some will sell them for hundreds of dollars, some will not.Some will unbox them on their Youtube channel to get more views,some will do it to feel special,and some will throw them in a bin after they play the games and forget about them.
The fact remains that it's a shitty practise that has the potential to affect somebody (for the reasons i posted above) when he/she writes a review even if it's just for one extra point.That 8 that could have been a 7 is huge for publishers and they know that even if they manage to affect only a handful of sites/Youtubers that will be more than worth it.No one will admit that of course but i'm sure it can happen regardless if it happens conciously or subconsiously.
The Omega Man
Member
they exist so those poor underpayed game journos can take them home and add them to their personal collection or sell them on e-bay.
Considering the value items in these press kits could be sold for that serve absolutely no purpose to the business of reviewing the game content itself, and considering they are included specifically to externally emotionally influence the opinion of the reviewer, yes, it is arguably bribery.
But the games journalism industry isn't exactly the pinnacle of ethics.
Horrible comparison. As a food critic you are specifically reviewing the experience of any one person eating at a restaurant. As a game critic you are specifically reviewing the experience of any one person playing a video game, and the public doesn't receive those valuable items in the press kit.
HighResTomato
Member
Yeah no body expects Eve Valkyrie to have the same budget as triple A titles by major publishers.
Perhaps it's different in the US but here in Europe gaming press flown to crazy events just for a preview session.
But those "valuable items" have absolutely zero impact on the game! Find me something in the data on my press kit disc that isn't in the retail disc, and I'll give you the keys to my house.
My day job used to be tech support. If someone walked into my office with a few buttons done up and a cleavage I could ski down, would their password reset be more important/more likely to get my attention than an impending meltdown of one of our systems? No. Was I more likely to provide better service to someone because they bring some cookies into the office at Xmas? No.
That was the first result I found for "PS4 Promo". We got the same for Titanfall 2, for COD, for Watch Dogs 2. Every single time.
Oh, also, I'm in the UK.
Waddle Dee
Member
ITT people defend bribery.
These freebies influence reviewers whether they know it or not. It won't stop a bad game from getting a bad score, but it may change the review score of a great game from something like an 8.9 to a 9.2.
Game reviewers here, and on youtube, always defend themselves by saying that these special editions don't sway them but how can they know for sure? If they were real professionals, they'd decline these offerings (including the bullshit free trips).
Stuff like this is why game journalism (and most journalism in general) can't be taken seriously.
These freebies influence reviewers whether they know it or not. It won't stop a bad game from getting a bad score, but it may change the review score of a great game from something like an 8.9 to a 9.2.
Game reviewers here, and on youtube, always defend themselves by saying that these special editions don't sway them but how can they know for sure? If they were real professionals, they'd decline these offerings (including the bullshit free trips).
Stuff like this is why game journalism (and most journalism in general) can't be taken seriously.
Blam
Member
I'd assume this would be more of the case than anything.
Nobody likes those "weekend long parties" you are talking about. You're basically restricted to a hotel where you do nothing but play the game. It all sounds fancy as fuck until you realize that it doesn't matter in what kind of exotic location they're hosting it... it won't matter much since all you'll be seeing is four walls and a TV screen. Review events are the worst and the only people who think they're "cool parties" are people who have never done them.
ITT People blatantly ignore statements to the contrary of your entire post.
I couldn't give a shit if I had to pay for TLG to get a review up. We've done that with several games this year because we didn't get sent anything. Do we make money off those reviews? Nope. Why did I do it? Because I wanted to post coverage and I love writing/making videos/podcasts.
Err no the product is the same. Only the game is being reviewed not the packaging it comes in. The box is not a part of the experience.
Oh, It works. It just depends on how you define "working." It works as a means of influencing the person receiving it ever so slightly. It's why PR firms send them out. No one is immune to subconscious bias. People only believe they are above human psychology and special, like the people who say advertising doesn't "work" on them.
We all have already understood how you are as a journalist. Please accept that there may be people who is not like you.
Yes it is, that's why some people buy collector editions.
Yep. Press reports on upcoming game release when they otherwise would not have.
Publicity at work. Think about unboxing videos for new consoles or new colors.
You would also have to consider that releases with "lavish" press kits would be subconsciously considered the big or important releases of the year. There are benefits to sending cheap "tchotchkes" to the press that aren't just move this 8 to a 9 or 6 to a 9.
I do, but everyone in here is making out that *every single review* will be "tainted" by these press kits. "Bribes" and "corruption" get thrown around so much, it makes me wonder why I'm busting my bollocks to provide a review that people will scroll past, see the score and judge me for getting it early. I'm trying to "make it" and shit like this thread make me wonder why I fucking bother.
Collectors editions come with stuff that actively changes the game 90% of the time. Be it skins, early access to stuff, new cars/weapons... The game I've got in my PS4 is *LITERALLY* the same as one I can pick up from a supermarket next week.
Also, something to think about when giving credit for giving away these items as "contest prizes" is the way these contests can generate traffic or subscriptions.
Not only do these contests advertise the game, but the site is benefiting from these "items" by providing them additional content and a flashy draw.
Not only do these contests advertise the game, but the site is benefiting from these "items" by providing them additional content and a flashy draw.
People will always generalize. If you constantly provide good quality reviews the audience agrees with, it doesn't matter what tactics the publishers use, the audience won't doubt about your integrity.
On one hand, as I have already said, I think a fancy package with a good artbook is still part of the experience. On the other hand, a collectors edition doesn't cost as much because of some little ingame goodies, it's because of the better boxes, artbooks, and other goodies.
In this thread,
People with actual experience in game journalism: "Most press kits are shit and we don't really care either way."
People with no experience who have very strong opinions: "The capitalistic relationship between publishers and journalists is akin to that between master and servant, the so-called games "journalist" begging on his knees to be hit harder, to be abused in the name of the almighty Ad View. Pulitzer cries."
People with actual experience in game journalism: "Most press kits are shit and we don't really care either way."
People with no experience who have very strong opinions: "The capitalistic relationship between publishers and journalists is akin to that between master and servant, the so-called games "journalist" begging on his knees to be hit harder, to be abused in the name of the almighty Ad View. Pulitzer cries."
Waddle Dee
Member
Then why don't you and your team decline bribery and instead buy the games on your own? Is it because you want the extra exclusive goodies the publisher gives you? How do you know none of it will affect your view on the game? Did you visit an alternate timeline where you had to actually buy the game like everybody else and see yourself giving the game the same score?
You can argue how I'd know whether these press kits influenced your reviews or not but since the whole purpose of these press kits is to sway reviewers, it doesn't matter whether they swayed you or not, you accepted the bribe anyways.
Architechnophile
Member
Expanding on this just a little, this is why many food critics of renown try to obscure their identity when they sit for a meal they'll be reviewing. You do your best to remove barriers meant to keep you from experiencing the truth of the thing you're trying to criticize. Criticism is a quest for honesty--both in the art and in your own response to it.
This is the outlook that any game critic worth their salt approaches their work with, too. And when you look at things from that perspective, anything that might be offered to you as a reviewer that tries to get in the way of that honesty is only an impediment--not a positive that you just do your best to ignore.
Readers should expect that--it's important to ask for those standards, and to support critics who show they value them.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I don't think anyone replying to the thread as a reviewer is saying the existence of promotional copies of games is rare; I think what they're saying is that as a matter of process, outlets increasingly get digital codes rather than these physical boxes, and the overall scale of the physical press kits has gotten smaller over time. Half the videos linked in this thread are from central Europe, including all of your first batch, which suggests to me that the units may be specific to regions where digital review copies are not as viable. They could possibly even be Greece-specific.
So rather than just googling "press kit" and posting videos, why not ask the people who actually professionally do this in North America or western Europe what their experiences are?
The whole "subconscious effect" argument is a slippery slope. Almost everything can have a subconscious effect. If press kits are banned should we also stop game developers from smiling in an interview? Should PR managers not talk to game jurnos directly so they aren't swayed by a pretty face or pleasant voice?
Show me a regular game review where they are talking about the packaging the game comes in. Additionally buying a collectors edition does not enhance your experience of the game itself. People did not enjoy NMS more just because they got a miniature ship in the collectors edition.
Show me a regular game review where they are talking about the packaging the game comes in. Additionally buying a collectors edition does not enhance your experience of the game itself. People did not enjoy NMS more just because they got a miniature ship in the collectors edition.
finalflame
Gold Member
Or, y'know, some of us have moderate opinions that publishers spend the money on press kits so as to create an overall more positive impression of their game which, as humans, inevitably causes some sort of unconscious bias that we cannot control. One might also imply that this is not akin to corruption, but obviously the reason companies put in the effort to do these things in the first place.
But let's not talk about reasonable middlegrounds, there's no place for that here. It's just journalists getting hurt that anyone could believe they are susceptible to regular human biases, and others crying about the corrupt capitalist influence of materialistic press kits on the media proletariat.
Waddle Dee
Member
Why should I give this all the benefit of the doubt when we've all seen examples of corruption in the game industry and gaming review sites? If reviewers want to be taken seriously, they shouldn't accept these "gifts".