No, not in the current U.S. political climate. We're going through a very protectionist period right now.
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Trump calls NATO "obsolete"
- Thread starter Bitch Pudding
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No, not in the current U.S. political climate. We're going through a very protectionist period right now.
paperboywriter
Member
Putin won another election. God fucking damn it.
Le pen has been getting money from russian banks close to putin.
Afd got some shady money from russia via switzerland.
These things have been going on for some time now.
thehypocrite
Member
NATO was funded not just for that reason. It was also created to foster long term peace in the region and it has been extremely successful in that regards. Is fucking peace obsolete? Please do tell.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Looks like we may actually see the end of US hegemony in our lifetimes. Never thought I'd see the day.
radios shipping overview
Member
The Manchurian Asshole from Queens.
paperboywriter
Member
Pls, go and hit the books. What a load of drivel.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
The EU needs an army badly.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I don't know why you are dumping this on me.
I said that it was more of a necessity then because Western Europe was incapable of defending or uniting itself.
What you are saying is just your private fantasy.
GoldenEye 007
Member
He's going to destroy modern Western institutions/thinking.
metalslimer
Member
We deserve it.
Wilders is funded, amongst others, by some American Zionists. He is staunchly pro-israel and anti-Islam, so that makes sense I guess. I think he is rather neutral on Russia.
LePen Senior is a giant antisemite, but his old party, now led by his daughter, has subdued this message for electorial purposes.
thehypocrite
Member
It was put on you for the ignorant drivel you posted.
Yup, Trump himself openly talked about this exact thing since the 80's.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Trump is a disaster but the responses here tell me that Europe needs to get it's shit together. Hand wringing over NATO looks weak after all these years
gutter_trash
Banned
Fuck Trump
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
He will go down in history as the worst president the US ever had.
More Fun To Compute
Member
If it's drivel then explain why I am factually incorrect in saying that Europe was more needing of investment and protection then than now.
Do you think that just Germany and France together could not be capable of defending their countries against Russia if they had to and were given time to organise and combine their defence policies?
Aarglefarg
Member
For some urination play?
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Hard for you to go down as the worst in history if history ends with you. No one will be around to remember it.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Someone told me awhile back that protecting the European countries are still one of the things Americans would support militarily.... doesn't seem to look like it from where I'm standing...
Not occupying. Ukraine and South Ossetia have large ethnic Russian populations who are and were supportive of Russia. So it is a little more complicated. Other countries along the border have smaller populations and are far more hostile to Russian intervention.
Now, does Putin want more influence over Eastern Europe? The answer is of course he does. But he's not going to go invading them, at least we don't have any indication of such an escalation. Indeed, if that were to happen then it would be disastrous for everyone.
Regarding your concerns about Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders, there's little doubt he is using and exploiting the rise of right of the right as a way to further Russian influence over the region and weaken the Union. It serves their interests to have countries have closer relations and trade deals with them as opposed to the union itself. It's to their benefit that fragments.
Le Pen in particular has had a couple of deals, one of which was a Russian bank loan that allegedly has ties to the Kremlin. The rationale she gives for such deals is that French banks won't loan the money. The last loan I believe she attempted to negotiate was also with a Russian bank, but it failed to materialise. Wilders doesn't say much in regards to Russia. He's mostly running off the platform of Islamophobia. Farage, nah. Most of these have varying reasons for their position but share the common 'fear' of immigration and 'open borders'. It's not all connected.
iz.podpolja
Neo Member
Well, as for the status of political freedom in Poland it hasn't reached yet Hungarian level of authoritarianism (not saying it won't).
Ironic that even though the current government is openly mimicking the same "sovereign democracy" model as introduced in Russia, it is also (as all major political forces in Poland) starkly anti-Russian.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
How can you say that coming off Barack HUSSEIN Obummer. The man who took away all our guns, invaded Texas, implemented a marxist health care dystopia, made Islam the official state religion/banned Christianity and sold out the country to Iran!
excelsiorlef
Member
Thread Trump says NATO is obsolete.
What you said: He's right... explanation why.... without any indication that you think he's wrong when he says that it is obsolete...
thehypocrite
Member
Here's how I know you're dishonest presenting hypocritical arguments. In your original post you took the costs into consideration when presenting your opinion about the creation of NATO, now on the hypothetical you ask if they could without taking into consideration the cost that such a war will impose on those countries, heck, they may not even be a war when nuclear superpowers collide an the entirety of humankind would be at risk of destruction. Those are the fucking stakes, that's why peace and the institutions that provide the sustenance for peace are so important. So, yes, you are wrong and your posts is full of assumptions that disregard the spectrum of possibilities at play.
They would be, they're the ones that really suffered when they last were under the Russian sphere of influence.
It's not about Russian tank forces rolling into Western Europe. It's about Russia having unchecked power in the former Soviet sphere of influence. Those countries are still very weak and susceptible to Russian exploitation. France, Germany, and the UK would be completely capable of defending themselves but they would not have a unified stance on how to handle Russian aggression in Eastern Europe. Do you know how the World Wars started? It started because nobody had consensus on what to do about military aggression until it was too late.
It's not only he says a good deal is possible with Britain, he has the throw the EU under the bus as well.
Now who could benefit from a broken Europe?
Who?
Who?
Who?
Trump's good friend.
He told you all that he was going to burn it all down. You said that he was to stupid to be serious.
Brexit told you all you needed to know about how far this was going to move, and that was just the beginning.
Look to French and Germany for their coming struggles to stay on the side of reason.
Brexit told you all you needed to know about how far this was going to move, and that was just the beginning.
Look to French and Germany for their coming struggles to stay on the side of reason.
Wondering the same. I haven't seen him delivering a single cohesive speech without drifting into a spiral of unrelated ranting or other weird shenanigans. But perhaps that's just the plan all along.
ISIS is #1 tricky btw
Trickster
Member
I'm sure someone will manage to etch into stone just how awful Trump was before we all die. This way the aliens who eventually stumple onto earth will know
Translator's note: Keikaku means Putin
The Military-industrial complex is a national security gauge for politicians in general. Just because the US isn't at war, doesn't mean it won't build new equipment. It will simply build for the war it THINKS it might have vs the war it is currently having.
The F-15 and 16 were introduce for combat service in 74 and 78 respectively, and yet neither of them would see actual war(US F-15's, Israelis saw combat within a year of introduction) until desert storm and the Balkans in the 90's.
The Artisan
Member
fixed, god forbid
SporeCrawler
Member
Europe needs to get their shit together and unify asap. Enemies on all fronts at this point.
Isnt Poland (PiS) pretty much chummy with Putin now though? Same with Orban.
Isnt Poland (PiS) pretty much chummy with Putin now though? Same with Orban.
More Fun To Compute
Member
The cost of a nuclear war would be horrific with or without NATO. I'm not sure what you are saying here as lots of countries are not in NATO but that does not immediately mean that Russia will think that launching a nuke at them would be fine. I think that the last time a nuke was seriously considered as an option was in the Korean war by the USA but thankfully it was decided against.
The main purpose of NATO is to defend Europe from Russian aggression or to deter that aggression. Sadly nuclear weapon deployment is part of that but France has it's own nuclear weapons program also. But really I think that spending on conventional forces and anti terrorism is what most people think about. As in should Europe reconsider how much it needs to do to protect itself from potential Russian aggression and reconsider the challenges that face the world in the future. Really the best defence is for war to be politically and economically impossible in the first place.
We had the situation in Ukraine where NATO did not intervene so although while I agree that these countries want defence in practice it isn't coming from NATO. Maybe for good reasons such as possible escalation to direct conflict with Russia.
Captain Tuttle
Member
BoboBrazil
Member
This all part of Bannon's plan. He wants the world to burn to the ground.
GoldenEye 007
Member
The issue is that these fucks seem to be willing to fall in line. Even if it means destroying NATO.
They care about power and nothing else. Fuck the country as a whole. They got theirs.
nephilimdj
Member
iz.podpolja
Neo Member
I'd say it's about the pesky EU in general - its existence means that Russia isn't the biggest player on the continent, even in its Eastern part. If it was dismantled Russia would have probably only Germany to speak with as equals, with the rest of countries, especially in the east, being susceptible to any form of pressure - this is so much less costly then a war (which serves mostly as means of boosting Putin's popularity at home IMO).
Reasonably, the long term goals in international politics for Russia probably are: creation of a divided, nationalistic (or otherwise conflicted) Europe + inward-looking isolationistic USA. Only then can a country with a relatively small economy & population exert enough influence to play in the "big league".
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