...I think I like it.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Official Teaser
- Thread starter FelipeMGM
- Start date
- Status
...I think I like it.
It's catchy, but do you think they'd have Force in the title after The Force Awakens?
Killer Queen
Banned
See, that is what I'm getting at. Also, hear me out.
This franchise is 40 years old, its text book good vs evil and this franchise plans to have many more entries over the next 40 years. Yes, I understand where its been before and what's been established prior to now, but that doesn't mean the future has to adhere to that. You can only be doing the same thing for so long, which is why Luke ending the Jedi order is something huge and why we're all still here speculating on what that could mean.
You're operating under the idea that the Jedi are the good guys, so they can do no wrong and because they do no wrong their ideals are correct and that's the fundamental disconnect between us right now. The Jedi, despite trying to be morally correct and the good guys, often weren't and this is something that's heavily explored in the PT. They're hypocrites and they're ideals are kind of silly. The famous quote was "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering."
And yes, it can but telling someone to let go of all their feelings because something bad might happen is inherently silly. What should be taught is self control. Because that saying is practically the same as "Hunger is the path to diabetes. Hunger leads to food, food leads to junk food, junk food leads to obesity". Yes, it certainly can, but there's something inherently wrong with that line of thinking, being hungry is a natural function that you just can't ignore, in the same way that fear and anger are, yes they can lead to bad things, but they often don't, because as a child you're taught self control which is what the Jedi should've been teaching rather than breeding self righteousness and ignorance. Just because the Jedi set out to do good doesn't mean they were correct. Because like you said, those things can be harnessed to do good, and in the real world, not everyone that's ever been afraid or angry has turned out to be a psycho murderer. But you know what has? Ignoring someone's deep seeded issues and telling someone to just let it go or get rid of it rather than actually making an effort to help. That's why Anakin became Vader, and you know what, I kind of see that parallel in Kylo Ren.
Anakin never got any kind of help or support for his issues with his mother and Padme and everyone around him kind of gave him a "Welp, sucks, get over it " until Palpatine came along and was like "Hey, I can help you out" and Palpatine took advantage of his vulnerability. Kylo Ren is obviously upset with the way that Han has been a father to him, or the very least dissapointed (He practically says as much in the film) maybe Han was never around, then Kylo gets shipped off to his uncle at a young age to boarding school and instead of having any comfort he gets a "Welp sucks" until someone comes along and says "Hey, I can help you" (Speculation of course but)
So moving on from that into the sequel trilogy, what's wrong with Luke going into the sequel trilogy and saying "The Jedi were wrong and so was their understanding of the force, I've been holding it down in ancient temples across the galaxy for the last few years, let me show you what's really up" and instead of founding a new order on something that's fundamentally wrong why not create a new order on something that's correct. Harness your anger in a moment of need, but don't stray too far down that path to the point where you're consumed by revenge and hatred. But don't be so blinded by doing what's good and what's right that you lose sight of doing what's right like helping someone in need.
The light and dark sides of the force don't need to be good and evil, and just because they've said they are up until this point doesn't mean things can't change. Like I said, the Jedi weren't always right, and maybe Luke realized that those ideals were a reason that Kylo Ren became what he did. Now whether or not they actually explore these kinds of themes in the movies is another story. Another thing is, if Luke really is reading the book of Whils, then that right there could give him an entirely new understanding of the force that the Jedi never had, or at least haven't had for thousands of years and maybe the Jedi that Luke knows are very different than the "good" force users of old.
If anger is part of the dark side is there something wrong with harnessing your anger in the heat of battle to save a life? No, so then would using the dark side be wrong? No
There's nothing wrong with indulging in things to a reasonable degree, the issue is that both the Jedi and Sith are extremists, not that the dark side of the force is fundamentally bad or the light side is fundamentally good. Ying and Yang.
As for Empire= Evil, Rebels=good this is what I mean in its a matter of perspective. The Empire is trying to unite the galaxy, people that are apart of the empire would consider that to be a good thing, fighting for unity, but the problem there is that they're being oppressive and have ulterior motives. The Rebels are good because they're fighting against the oppression, but members of the empire that aren't Sith may see them as fighting against unity, and taking lives for it, which would be bad. So like I said, perspective, and this is something mirrored in the real world during wars. Many Americans think that America is a peace keeper, spreading the peace and fighting in wars for freedom. Meanwhile, many people who start those wars have ulterior motives, but those fighting in the war often see their side as the good side. While religious extremists consider themselves to be doing the right thing by fighting back. Everyone sees themselves as the good guy. Why am I bringing this up? because it seems to be something they're exploring in Battlefront with Inferno Squad. The whole Idea of getting a look into the Empire and who they're patriotic about signals to me the removal of those black and white ideals of good and bad and adding the whole dynamic of perspective, or else why have a story like that?
But everyone hates Legacy of the Force.
LegalEagleMike
Member
O man I go away for half a day and come back to yuuzhan vong discussion.
I think I agree.
Killer Queen
Banned
"This is the end of the Jedi
Hah, goteem, just kidding, see you next week"
JonnyDBrit
Member
This will be a bit of an odd thing for me to single out in your post, but that is not what I believe. It is something I have expressed as much discussing how the Jedi screwed up in the prequel trilogy and failed Anakin. If anything...
This is applying the presumption that to be at all correct, they have to completely correct. This is something supported by neither trilogy, whether in the Jedi's institutional failures resulting in Anakin falling to the dark side, despite all the good they'd have done defending the galaxy, or in Luke having to outright defy both his masters to redeem his father, and save the galaxy from there. But that doesn't make them somehow as absolutely bad as the Sith either. Hence also the analogy I raised of Luke potentially inventing the equivalent of Protestantism to the Jedi's Catholicism
The Jedi are also not the absolute definition of the light, nor the Sith the absolute definition of the dark. The Jedi of the prequels are implicitly not the way the Jedi always were - they're supposed to be have lost their way. Become too much of an institution embroiled in politics and, as has been brought up by you and others, their dogma which was ultimately less helpful than they believed. But that doesn't automatically invalidate everything they were about either.
Also I brought up the point about harnessing anger as needed in appropriate contexts. That does not inherently make anger a good or typically acceptable thing either. Yin and Yang also assumes the visual of a perfectly equal, 50/50 style balance, which has been discussed as a flawed presumption as to what 'balance' may even mean.
Right, but their in universe perspective doesn't necessarily dismiss or excuse an actual measure of the implications thereof. Considering yourself the good guy does not necessarily make you the good guy. And as for this little line:
No, not everyone does. Because that's applying a presumption of moral motivation in everyone's behaviour. Some people, real life or in Star Wars' universe, don't care for having to justify themselves in a context where they are 'right' - merely what is acceptable to achieve given aims. That is not about being 'the good guy', and reducing people's motivations to that is frankly one of the most disingenuous things around.
As for Inferno Squad, that's nothing to necessarily do with 'the removal of black and white ideals of good and bad' - again, implying the presumption of morally based motivation. If they get into issues of the Empire bringing stability to the galaxy, and how the Rebellion - whatever the intent of its upheaval - will adversely affect others, particularly innocent people, then that would be as that is explicitly trying to achieve a moral good, even while we know in the wider context there is a lot to be considered evil with the empire. That's in line with the approach taken by TIE Fighter, where you got to ward off pirates, smugglers, and the like - factions we readily accept as bad even while playing as the bad guys, so logically the conclusion is we're doing good even as 'the bad guys'.
But, Inferno Squad could simply be a perspective of 'the other side'. A functionary perspective without necessarily trying to justify it or paint it as equally heroic - from another point of view, at least - as the one with which we are most familiar. If someone does go through a redemption arc as implied by the description, unless that redemption leads them anywhere but the Rebellion/Republic, that would simply reinforce the notion that the R's are good, E/FO bad.
Killer Queen
Banned
I think passed here we're just arguing semantics. While I do genuinely appreciate you typing out that response and do enjoy conversing with you, I'm not going to do another simply because I'm lazy and it takes a lot of effort, but I'll address your criticisms. I think we're in agreement on a lot of things but disagree on others.
-I'm not saying the Jedi are wrong or as bad as the Sith, like not even a little. I'm saying that their order is misguided. Saying that I'm implying that they're as bad as the sith is disingenuous. I'm not saying they were entirely wrong, I'm saying that they were wrong in some areas that there order considers to be fundamental.
-Whether or not they are the absolute doesn't mean they don't strive to be absolute, and from what's currently canon, it seems that way to me.
-I'm not saying it's good or typically acceptable, I'm agreeing with you that its okay in moderation, because it can be used to do good.
-I'm not saying they are the good guys, I'm saying they see themselves to be, and that makes for a more interesting story rather than one that's simply good and one that's simply evil and its more grounded in realism.
-Generally you're not going to do something if it goes against your views in every way, shape or form, your motivations are driven by what you believe to be correct and what you believe to be incorrect. The point I'm trying to make here is that most people generally aren't self aware to see when they're in the wrong, which is why redemption stories are a thing, because they get that self awareness and do what's right, but there's a reason that's rare in fiction, because it's just as rare in real life that someone changes their entire belief system to something that goes against all they were taught. Because more often than not most people don't get that perspective into the other side and see what they were taught rather than what they weren't. Hitler believed he was doing the right thing, was he right? No, but that doesn't mean he didn't think he was. Which is my point.
-As for inferno squad, sure it could be, but again I'm making an argument for directions the Star Wars universe could go in terms of storyteling that would be new and add to the universe. Adding the two different perspectives and humanizing the enemy by giving them a face should imply that there would by sympathy or an understanding there when you're going through the lives of actual characters rather than just another faceless dude.
But like I said, these are my opinions for places the Star Wars universe could go that adds to the series rather than feels like treading water, and if the series is going to go on for another 40 years, I feel that it should start changing and adding to the basic formula so you can build more things around it rather than be constrained to what you've already done. Which is my point for all of this, that going forward this is a direction I'm personally interested in seeing them take, because it opens up room for more stories and interesting characters, ones you can sympathize with on both sides, etc.
Edit: before anyone starts saying that I'm saying that you should sympathize with Nazi's
I'm not
-I'm not saying the Jedi are wrong or as bad as the Sith, like not even a little. I'm saying that their order is misguided. Saying that I'm implying that they're as bad as the sith is disingenuous. I'm not saying they were entirely wrong, I'm saying that they were wrong in some areas that there order considers to be fundamental.
-Whether or not they are the absolute doesn't mean they don't strive to be absolute, and from what's currently canon, it seems that way to me.
-I'm not saying it's good or typically acceptable, I'm agreeing with you that its okay in moderation, because it can be used to do good.
-I'm not saying they are the good guys, I'm saying they see themselves to be, and that makes for a more interesting story rather than one that's simply good and one that's simply evil and its more grounded in realism.
-Generally you're not going to do something if it goes against your views in every way, shape or form, your motivations are driven by what you believe to be correct and what you believe to be incorrect. The point I'm trying to make here is that most people generally aren't self aware to see when they're in the wrong, which is why redemption stories are a thing, because they get that self awareness and do what's right, but there's a reason that's rare in fiction, because it's just as rare in real life that someone changes their entire belief system to something that goes against all they were taught. Because more often than not most people don't get that perspective into the other side and see what they were taught rather than what they weren't. Hitler believed he was doing the right thing, was he right? No, but that doesn't mean he didn't think he was. Which is my point.
-As for inferno squad, sure it could be, but again I'm making an argument for directions the Star Wars universe could go in terms of storyteling that would be new and add to the universe. Adding the two different perspectives and humanizing the enemy by giving them a face should imply that there would by sympathy or an understanding there when you're going through the lives of actual characters rather than just another faceless dude.
But like I said, these are my opinions for places the Star Wars universe could go that adds to the series rather than feels like treading water, and if the series is going to go on for another 40 years, I feel that it should start changing and adding to the basic formula so you can build more things around it rather than be constrained to what you've already done. Which is my point for all of this, that going forward this is a direction I'm personally interested in seeing them take, because it opens up room for more stories and interesting characters, ones you can sympathize with on both sides, etc.
Edit: before anyone starts saying that I'm saying that you should sympathize with Nazi's
I'm not
So incredibly happy with Rian's comments on TLJ. He's saying all the right things.
Slower pacing, digging into the characters. He also said something like.. TFA introduced you to the characters, and in TLJ, we get to know them.
I truly feel like this could be the best SW film ever made if done right. Not as iconic or wholly original, but most character driven, emotional, and rewarding experience yet.
I sense big things.
Slower pacing, digging into the characters. He also said something like.. TFA introduced you to the characters, and in TLJ, we get to know them.
I truly feel like this could be the best SW film ever made if done right. Not as iconic or wholly original, but most character driven, emotional, and rewarding experience yet.
I sense big things.
Killer Queen
Banned
I think this will be the best and most original Star Wars film outside of ANH tbh.
Yup and original in less obvious ways. Just like reactions in this very thread, you'll see a ton of people looking for surface similarities instead of appreciating the substance.
It disappoints me to see so many people overlook the obvious new qualities Rian is bringing to the SW universe.
I feel like complaints are going to shift back to "nothing happened" "too slow" "where's the action?" "SW is supposed to be about adventure!"
Which will be painfully ironic
Killer Queen
Banned
See that's also a big part of why I have all these theories about weird and new stuff that I've been posting here. Because Rian Johnson wrote this film and the next one and I feel like he's going to do a lot of new and crazy stuff that people aren't expecting, especially after TFA. I feel like just doing what's already been done isn't something he'd be interested in, especially when he's been handed this much control to shape Star Wars. I think this film (and the next since he wrote it) has the potential to change Star Wars as we know it, and that's incredibly exciting to me.
I know I've talked about this to death: but it's such a big part of why I don't think Rey will be a Skywalker. Because ignoring all the story connections for a moment, just thinking about it from a character perspective, it's a title that carries a lot of baggage and you already have one character that's dealing with that legacy in an interesting way, what does it bring to Rey as a character for her to be a Skywalker, and the answer to me is nothing. Sure it creates a moment in the film where Luke can go "No Rey, I am your father, and that guy that's trying to kill you, he's your cousin". But to me her having that title kind of undermines everything she's about and everything she should be about as the antithesis of Kylo Ren. She's a character that grew up and made it on her own without help from others, she's a survivor and driven by her ambition and it's her ambition and will to do what's right that drove her to where she is now. She wasn't born the child of a legend or royalty, she's just Rey and just Rey was able to do great things. While Kylo is a child of royalty, belonging to a family of legends, people that have shaped the galaxy as he knows it, on both sides and he's consumed by that, he will forever live in that Shadow, whether it be Luke's or Vader's and the fact that he lives in that Shadow and fails to live up to it is a huge part of his character and what drives him.
If you make Rey a Skywalker it undermines all of the above. And I really like the message that you're not defined by what family you were or weren't born into, but by what you do by your own merit and the dynamic between Kylo Ren and Rey really captures that right now.
I personally hope she's not a Skywalker. I love that those cut lines from the trailer:
"Who are you?"
"I'm no one."
I want that to be true so much. It does free her from a lot of that baggage that could clash with an original direction to take her character.
But if they DO make her Luke's daughter, I do still believe that they can create a path for her that feels both original and satisfying.
She could redefine "Skywalker", as she will certainly do for "Jedi".
"Who are you?"
"I'm no one."
I want that to be true so much. It does free her from a lot of that baggage that could clash with an original direction to take her character.
But if they DO make her Luke's daughter, I do still believe that they can create a path for her that feels both original and satisfying.
She could redefine "Skywalker", as she will certainly do for "Jedi".
Chained Prometheus
Member
If that happens, I'm betting Rian is going to go about it in a different angle than a lot of us are expecting.
For example, if Rey is Luke's daughter, I bet Luke doesn't even know that he ever had a child to begin with. He probably had a brief relationship with a lady sometime between RotJ and TFA and that woman ended up being Rey's mom. Kinda like how TPM was originally going to feature a brief romance between Qui-Gon and Shmi. In which case, the hook going into Episode IX won't be "Oh my god, Luke is my dad," it'll be "Who's my mother, where is she and why did she leave me on Jakku?"
Barkley's Justice
Member
A server(s) somewhere is allocating space to store this "discussion" somewhere.
Yup. I'm thinking he wouldn't know, if they go this route. And contrary to popular belief.. No, they don't need to say "I am your father" or allow the audience to discover this through dialogue. TFA did a phenomenal job with contextual/visual storytelling and I believe it will be conveyed with through the latter.
What
Yup. Still gives me goosebumps
By far not the worst thing on the internet.
And the irony of that post is too obvious to be an accident
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Really hope this next installment will be less of a business movie that Episode VII and they do take some risks that may result in a weaker box office but in a more unique movie.
Killer Queen
Banned
I think Luke really will be the last Jedi, but he's going to train Rey to be something else, and what that something else will be will be based half on his failures and the failures of the Jedi and half on whatever he's learned from that book, ancient Jedi and exploring the force.
As for Rey redefining Skywalker. It's kind of difficult to go anywhere with that because. You have Anakin who was born a slave, made it big as a general and became a well known Jedi, then became the most fearsome Sith in recent history.
Then you have Luke who was a farm boy that then became a member of the resistance, a Jedi and took down the empire by defeating the last Sith, redeeming Vader and blew up not one but two death stars. Since then he's gone on to attempt to bring back the Jedi order and has become a legendary figure in history.
Anywhere Rey goes as a Skywalker is going to feel lackluster compared to either of those things unless she goes on to form a grey Jedi (for lack of a better term) order or something. But again, it still undermines her character and the dynamic between her and Kylo Ren.
What I think/what I'd like to happen: is that Rey is just Rey and her heritage doesn't matter, Luke wants to end the Jedi order because it's built on things that are fundamentally wrong, but he wants to try something new based on what he now believes to be right, and he trains Rey as the first member of that new order. The reason the lightsaber calls to Rey isn't because she's a Skywalker, it's because she's a worthy successor to Luke and the good side of Anakin (which is why it doesn't call to Kylo, because he's not worthy, despite being of the bloodline). Kylo Ren will continue to be consumed by his hate and the fact that he can't be like Vader while Rey will learn to let go of the fact that her family left her, because it doesn't matter, it's what she does that matters.
What happens to Luke is anyone's guess. I think he's going to survive, but as it stands with Kylo having lost his first fight with Rey he's not an intimidating villain anymore, so I think it's very likely that Luke and Kylo confront each other at some point and either Luke dies or Rey gets her hand cut off. If Luke dies it'll be by throwing the fight, because he's getting old or because it's Snoke and Kylo against Luke and Snoke is Uber strong. But he has to kill and/or dismember someone from the main cast to give the film an emotional anchor and elevate him back into intimidating villain status.
As for Rey redefining Skywalker. It's kind of difficult to go anywhere with that because. You have Anakin who was born a slave, made it big as a general and became a well known Jedi, then became the most fearsome Sith in recent history.
Then you have Luke who was a farm boy that then became a member of the resistance, a Jedi and took down the empire by defeating the last Sith, redeeming Vader and blew up not one but two death stars. Since then he's gone on to attempt to bring back the Jedi order and has become a legendary figure in history.
Anywhere Rey goes as a Skywalker is going to feel lackluster compared to either of those things unless she goes on to form a grey Jedi (for lack of a better term) order or something. But again, it still undermines her character and the dynamic between her and Kylo Ren.
What I think/what I'd like to happen: is that Rey is just Rey and her heritage doesn't matter, Luke wants to end the Jedi order because it's built on things that are fundamentally wrong, but he wants to try something new based on what he now believes to be right, and he trains Rey as the first member of that new order. The reason the lightsaber calls to Rey isn't because she's a Skywalker, it's because she's a worthy successor to Luke and the good side of Anakin (which is why it doesn't call to Kylo, because he's not worthy, despite being of the bloodline). Kylo Ren will continue to be consumed by his hate and the fact that he can't be like Vader while Rey will learn to let go of the fact that her family left her, because it doesn't matter, it's what she does that matters.
What happens to Luke is anyone's guess. I think he's going to survive, but as it stands with Kylo having lost his first fight with Rey he's not an intimidating villain anymore, so I think it's very likely that Luke and Kylo confront each other at some point and either Luke dies or Rey gets her hand cut off. If Luke dies it'll be by throwing the fight, because he's getting old or because it's Snoke and Kylo against Luke and Snoke is Uber strong. But he has to kill and/or dismember someone from the main cast to give the film an emotional anchor and elevate him back into intimidating villain status.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Now that they've proven themselves with the super safe TFA, I sure hope so.
Say what you will about the prequels, but I appreciate their willingness to do something different. TFA laid some pretty great groundwork for some more original stuff.
TFA actually made me realize how rare it is to get straight up unanswered questions or unfinished story arcs in big movies these days. We don't know Rey's parents, we only got a tiny glimpse of Ren killing his fellow Jedi, we didn't see Luke until the end, etc. I mean, Marvel movies tease stuff all the time, but they're not telling a serialized story to the extent Star Wars likes to do. I love it.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I'm hoping for a newer modified understanding of the force and the Jedi without them taking it too far.
For me, the force is better with less direct explanation, the more vague the lore and origin of it and the Jedi are, the better. Potential rumor spoiler
Give us some ancient lore, make it vague, but don't give us a definitive origin to the force or the Jedi.
I'm ok with moving away from the Sith a bit, putting a little more gray into that dynamic, and having true Dark Jedi. I think there still needs to be a light vs dark dynamic, it just needs to be wider than just Jedi vs Sith.
For me, the force is better with less direct explanation, the more vague the lore and origin of it and the Jedi are, the better. Potential rumor spoiler
Some of the force-tree/ancient force using brother and sister related rumors out there I'm not a fan of, they honestly sound like hot garbage.
I'm ok with moving away from the Sith a bit, putting a little more gray into that dynamic, and having true Dark Jedi. I think there still needs to be a light vs dark dynamic, it just needs to be wider than just Jedi vs Sith.
Killer Queen
Banned
I don't think there will be anymore true Jedi or Sith honestly, but that doesn't mean there won't be groups that follow those ideas still. I think abolishing both and forming new orders then having splinter groups of Sith and Jedi all of different religious particularities would be interesting.
But I think real Jedi are done and unless Snoke takes Kylo to Malachor V (Sith Planet) than he won't be a sith either. Just a different type of dark side user.
But having numerous different factions on both the dark and the light side opens up an interesting future in star wars imo
But I definitely want a more abstract and different understanding of the force itself going forward.
#inRianJohnsonwetrust
But I think real Jedi are done and unless Snoke takes Kylo to Malachor V (Sith Planet) than he won't be a sith either. Just a different type of dark side user.
But having numerous different factions on both the dark and the light side opens up an interesting future in star wars imo
But I definitely want a more abstract and different understanding of the force itself going forward.
#inRianJohnsonwetrust
Luke is a completely different person from Anakin; Skywalkers aren't just replicas of each other so I don't think her holding the title of Skywalker undermines anything about her character. Sure, it makes the dynamic between her and Kylo different, but as we've seen, someone simply being family isn't enough to significantly affect him, in the end. Either way, I'm willing to bet they have a strong connection regardless. Kylo seems to already know a lot about her; we have no idea how that will play out or what it means for their characters.
Also.. If you think Kylo isn't a formidable villain, just wait until TLJ. Dude's not fucking around anymore.
Also.. If you think Kylo isn't a formidable villain, just wait until TLJ. Dude's not fucking around anymore.
Killer Queen
Banned
You misunderstand me lol, I'm saying that Luke and Anakin, at least in their most famous points in their life are total opposites, but they're both incredibly popular and have changed the galaxy. Rey going up against that on either side would make her journey seem lackluster when she lives in that Shadow, from a storytelling perspective, I don't think this trilogy is going to go to the extent that the OT did tbh in terms of the war and Vader/Emperor. I don't see the trilogy trying to be a bigger and better OT, but just a different and new story entirely.
And I'm agreeing that Kylo has to go hard in episode 8, because if he doesn't then he's no longer a formidable villain, because he's already lost the hero. I'm just curious on what exactly he does to cement himself as a villain. Will it be to take Rey's hand, or will Kylo have a part in offing Luke or someone else on the team. That's what I'm theorizing
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Was "padawan" a thing before the prequels?
Because if the prequels can introduce "padawan" to the masses, then the new trilogy can introduce a post-Jedi moniker.
Because if the prequels can introduce "padawan" to the masses, then the new trilogy can introduce a post-Jedi moniker.
It's like poetry.
Yes, but only in Lucas' original drafts.
edit: This was the opening to the Journal of the Whills, the first thing Lucas wrote for Star Wars as a plot outline:
"This is the story of Mace Windy, a revered Jedi-bendu of Ophuchi, as related to us by C.J. Thorpe, padawaan learner to the famed Jedi."
Chuckie
Member
Yeah it was in an early draft of Star Wars from 1973 (spelled Padawaan)
But it wasn't actually used as apprentice until the PT afaik.
Edit: Beaten like Kylo.
Terms like Padawan and Sith were used in a lot of the original material. Just didn't make it on screen till TPM.
Sith is one of those interesting ones in that pretty much everyone knew Vader and Palpatine were Sith Lords and that the Sith were the evil counterpart to the Jedi ever since the OT since it was so ubiquitous in all the tie-in media and merchandise but we never heard it once on screen till 1999.
Hell everyone knew the Emperor's name was Palpatine ever since 1976 since that was in all the tie-in media for ANH as well yet we never heard it on screen till TPM.
Sith is one of those interesting ones in that pretty much everyone knew Vader and Palpatine were Sith Lords and that the Sith were the evil counterpart to the Jedi ever since the OT since it was so ubiquitous in all the tie-in media and merchandise but we never heard it once on screen till 1999.
Hell everyone knew the Emperor's name was Palpatine ever since 1976 since that was in all the tie-in media for ANH as well yet we never heard it on screen till TPM.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
The Whills themselves which were mentioned in the very first Star Wars draft were not mentioned on-screen until Rogue One last year.
It's weird to watch that archive clip they released during Celeberation from a New Hope where they specifically mention Darth Vader as a Sith Lord. Since we never heard it in the OT. I wonder why they removed it.
The details of what it means to be a Jedi or a Sith are pretty irrelevant to what the movies are doing. Like, for almost all practical purposes a "Jedi" is just a force user and a "Sith" is just what you call an evil Jedi.
The prequels, and also Yoda to some extent in the OT, end up attaching a lot of extra stuff to what it means to be a member of the Jedi Order. For the most part these rules seem dumb, and the movies are pretty aware of this. Luke ignores Yoda's warning and goes to Cloud City, and that works out pretty well. Vader deep-down loves his son and gets redeemed -- you can come back from the Dark Side. It's harder to identify what the prequels are saying on purpose vs what's just sloppy storytelling, but in general it seems like Anakin turns evil more because the Jedi Order's requirements are unreasonable than because they're right that being in love makes you turn evil.
So I'm not expecting some big Jedi theology thing. Surely Luke's new Jedi are just people like Luke.
I guess it's also worth pointing out that Luke rejecting the Jedi Order's old requirements would neatly tie in with him having a kid.
The prequels, and also Yoda to some extent in the OT, end up attaching a lot of extra stuff to what it means to be a member of the Jedi Order. For the most part these rules seem dumb, and the movies are pretty aware of this. Luke ignores Yoda's warning and goes to Cloud City, and that works out pretty well. Vader deep-down loves his son and gets redeemed -- you can come back from the Dark Side. It's harder to identify what the prequels are saying on purpose vs what's just sloppy storytelling, but in general it seems like Anakin turns evil more because the Jedi Order's requirements are unreasonable than because they're right that being in love makes you turn evil.
So I'm not expecting some big Jedi theology thing. Surely Luke's new Jedi are just people like Luke.
I guess it's also worth pointing out that Luke rejecting the Jedi Order's old requirements would neatly tie in with him having a kid.
That still makes no sense to me. Rey abandoning the dichotomy of light and dark and embracing a brand new perspective on how to wield the force would make her journey "lackluster", because of her lineage? Huh? That's probably the most interesting and defining thing that's ever happened to the Skywalker family.
Killer Queen
Banned
Well I mean, that's if they go that way.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
So, is that one YouTube channel that's basically Rebel Force Radio's inner-knuckledragger unleashed - is that on the Star Wars reddit or something? Someone JUST tried making another thread based on their bullshit videos today.
I don't understand people tripping over this dude's troglodytic wrists all of a sudden without some other MRA-dipshit setting it in front of them all innocently.
I don't understand people tripping over this dude's troglodytic wrists all of a sudden without some other MRA-dipshit setting it in front of them all innocently.
Inferno313
Banned
Nah. Luke's reveal is fantastic, and wouldn't have fit better anywhere else in that narrative.
For fucks sake...How about watching the full interview instead of the clip taken out of context being spread by a youtube channel hellbent on cutting out clips to attack the sequels PURELY because it has a female lead.
What he said was when he first read the script he was worried it would be a cheap shot but when he saw the finale film with it in context and the Williams score it was a fantastic scene.
This channel cut out that second half of the reply.
I said this back when TFA released and Mark seems to share the same thought - It would have been awesome for the saber to fly into Luke's hands in the forest fight scene. Wasted opportunity for a great reintroduction, in my opinion.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
You gotta wonder how many active GAF members actually agree with that channel.
i watched it on the ABC site actually.
that said i can't say for sure that ABC aren't also propagating the MRA cause and despite my attempts to stay woke, you can never be too careful.
Would have made zero sense narratively. He's been in hiding for years, doesn't know about Starkiller Base, and he doesn't know about the Resistance assault on it. Even if he felt the death of Han, unless he was hiding on Stakiller Base's moon, he wouldn't have been able to travel there to confront Ben in time.
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