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[Yautja_Warrior]

Great video from NX Gamer comparing wired vs wireless controller input latency on Xbox One, PS4 and PC in different games and on the main menu's.

https://youtu.be/YCJnK_nUyg0

Interesting and unexpected results, Xbox One seems to have a higher / worse controller latency compared to PC and PS4, possibly down to the OS.

 

[NXGamer]

Shocked no-one found this interesting, bar you Op ;-). I am looking to cover more on this with a Web article, more tests and improvement of my methodologies,

The Xboxone results did not surprise me that it was higher, more the gap at times.

Hope it sparks debate at least if not in this thread, as others follow.

 

[Fredrik]

Shocked no-one found this interesting

Well to be fair, it's kind of hardcore even among core gamers tbh, remember that lots of people can't see/feel the difference between 30 and 60fps and don't understand why you would ever need to go above 60hz on PC.

Although, I'm not sure how much you'll actually notice in a real life scenario on consoles when there are so many other stuff that adds latency like slow TVs, receivers, hdmi switches etc. I'm not saying that console gamers don't care but I guess it's just yet another thing that adds a bit of latency on top of the big pile of latency already there that most have just accepted.

Some console gamers care though. A friend of mine thought playing NES games on a Raspberry Pi on a LCD TV was close to unplayable since the last time he played NES was on an original NES on an old fat CRT TV. I don't know what difference in ms we're talking about there though, standard LCD TV plus hdmi connection plus wireless controller vs CRT and wired controller. Maybe a 50ms difference? One frame in difference on a PAL NES game. Enough to just say "Nope" from his point of view.

(Not trying to be some kind of elitist PC gamer here btw, I play on consoles too and even prefer consoles over PC in some cases.)

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Shocked no-one found this interesting, bar you Op ;-). I am looking to cover more on this with a Web article, more tests and improvement of my methodologies,

The Xboxone results did not surprise me that it was higher, more the gap at times.

Hope it sparks debate at least if not in this thread, as others follow.

Yeah me too, I thought it would get a few people talking, hopefully more people will pick up on this a bit later.

The gap is surprising that's for sure. Will definitely check out the Web article for more on this though, great work as always.

 

[Norse360]

I've always felt PS4 (regular) have higher latency than Xbox One. Sports games in particular always feel more responsive on Xbox for some reason. Might be due to interference which the DS4 handles worse than XO.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I've always felt PS4 (regular) have higher latency than Xbox One. Sports games in particular always feel more responsive on Xbox for some reason. Might be due to interference which the DS4 handles worse than XO.

Can't say I've ever noticed any interference from anything on PS4 / DS4. What is interfering with your DS4, any idea ?

 

[geordiemp]

I use Ps4 pro and and connect ds4 using a long cable.

Seems VERY responsive and was a plus point for pro, but the video suggests the BT is just as good....surprising.

 

[Izuna]

Will have to watch later I guess.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm not sure about this test. I think different applications on the Xbox have different input latency.

To be fair he did test the latest OS and the Xbox One S (pet peeve of mine, but most sites doing comparison are not using the Xbox One, but doing performance testing on the Xbox One S which is slightly overclocked/more powerful than the launch Xbox One... as long as the game has a PS4 Pro mode and you test it in that mode or you test and mention performance in Boost mode than I guess things even out a bit, but lots of people only have a base Xbox One or PS4...).

 

[Behlel]

I've always felt PS4 (regular) have higher latency than Xbox One. Sports games in particular always feel more responsive on Xbox for some reason. Might be due to interference which the DS4 handles worse than XO.

Dunno what are you talking about for me is the opposite and the DS4 interfere with every other device of my room (for example i can't use the wifi with my phone and even with my TV unless i turn off my controller).

 

[Norse360]

Can't say I've ever noticed any interference from anything on PS4 / DS4. What is interfering with your DS4, any idea ?

Don't really know, but must be sonething since it has higher latency than my Xbox. Have a PS4 slim now and had a launch PS4 before, both had higher latency.

 

[geordiemp]

Dunno what are you talking about for me is the opposite and the DS4 interfere with every other device of my room (for example i can't use the wifi with my phone and even with my TV unless i turn off my controller).

Wifi and blutooth interring in your room, you got serious issues or something wrong with your WIFI / Phone gear. Something is broken

I have 2 ps4, 4 controllers, 2 TV's and 2 ipads, iphone 6s in same room and nothing (as you would expect)

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Wifi and blutooth interring in your room, you got serious issues or something wrong with your WIFI / Phone gear.

I have 2 ps4, 4 controllers, 2 TV's and 2 ipads, iphone 6s in same room and nothing (as you would expect)

I was thinking that too. Same here, a room full of equipment, TV's, consoles, phones ect and not a single bit of interference.

 

[Waaghals]

These measurements can't be right.

Having over 200ms of input lag would give you time to press a button and blink before the action would be displayed.


Killzone 2 had around 180, and that was very noticeable.

If I am not misremebering Halo3 was clocked at 100ms input lag, and that game was 30hz.
This means that 60hz Halo 5 has the same (or worse) input lag than an older game at half the framerate?

NX Gamer has doen a very good job with the video, it is clear and thorough, but I can't believe the results.

I'm not an expert or anything, but all the numbers seem high to me.

 

[Behlel]

Wifi and blutooth interring in your room, you got serious issues or something wrong with your WIFI / Phone gear.

I have 2 ps4, 4 controllers, 2 TV's and 2 ipads, iphone 6s in same room and nothing (as you would expect)

It's the ps4 that is causing interference and I've already tested and found the problem and it's the PS4 WiFi always on even when you are connected by lan.

 

[Hux1ey]

Shocked no-one found this interesting, bar you Op ;-). I am looking to cover more on this with a Web article, more tests and improvement of my methodologies,

The Xboxone results did not surprise me that it was higher, more the gap at times.

Hope it sparks debate at least if not in this thread, as others follow.

Lol that shameless bump

 

[nOoblet16]

These measurements can't be right.

Having over 200ms of input lag would give you time to press a button and blink before the action would be displayed.


Killzone 2 had around 180, and that was very noticeable.

If I am not misremebering Halo3 was clocked at 100ms input lag, and that game was 30hz.
This means that 60hz Halo 5 has the same (or worse) input lag than an older game at half the framerate?

NX Gamer has doen a very good job with the video, it is clear and thorough, but I can't believe the results.

I'm not an expert or anything, but all the numbers seem high to me.

I had the exact same thought, cause even something like Destiny has 86ms (Xbox one) / 97ms (PS4) of input lag without the display lag and it's 30FPS.

Do these numbers from NXGamer include the Television's input lag? If yes then it would explain that, otherwise I can't see so many 30FPS games approaching close to 200ms of lag as that's a very noticeable amount of lag and I see very few games approaching the kind of input lag Killzone 2 had.

 

[geordiemp]

It's the ps4 that is causing interference and I've already tested and found the problem and it's the PS4 WiFi always on even when you are connected by lan.

No, devices output RF signals around 2-5 GHZ, that is called blutooth or wift. That is normal, it is not causing interference. All devices should be allowed to do that and they should be free from one another.

If you have a device in your home that is affected by other 2.4 Ghz signals, it is the problem of your device that is affected, NOT the wifi sources.

You should be able to have 10 wifi or blutooth sources in your room and any device should be able to select its own channels and be immune.

So you are wrong, any device affected by wifi from another device, the technical fault is the device that is affected, not the wifi source.

Get your phone repaired or take it up with the supplier.

 

[geordiemp]

These measurements can't be right.

Having over 200ms of input lag would give you time to press a button and blink before the action would be displayed.
.

They are probably correct relative speaking, and they will be total lag difference of his test equipment and set up and measurement method.

To get absolute input only he would have to subtract his technique times.

However, that would in effect (by subtracting say 30 ms), make the differences in % more noticeable.

But the absolute difference between consoles will be correct assuming he was repeatable in his methods and made no errors......

 

[Waaghals]

They are probably correct relative speaking, and they will be total lag difference of his test equipment and set up and measurement method.

To get absolute input only he would have to subtract his technique times.

However, that would in effect (by subtracting say 30 ms), make the differences in % more noticeable.

But the absolute difference between consoles will be correct.

I take no issue with the placement of the consoles. My problem is that the numbers are universally too high.

While this does not affect the comparison, it might cause issues when we later end up comparing latency tests from other sources.

 

[BigEmil]

Great info

 

[OttoSporteman]

My main grip is that without a debug/devkit unit, these results are empirical and not really reliable.

Also the method for measuring is not really exposed and comparing apples with oranges often (like the system UI? Really?)

Anyway, since it's favorable to PS4 I guess it will be accepted as gospel at Gaf, but I really don't buy into the results.

 

[Fafalada]

but the video suggests the BT is just as good....surprising.

It's not really surprising - the latencies he measures are application motion-to-photon basically, putting them in 100s of ms for most software, while the wireless latency for the controller is in 10ths of miliseconds, so roughly 3 orders of magnitude removed.

Basically the changes in speed wired gives are too far below human perception to mention.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Does the same apply for wireless mice? In that Bluetooth delivers very low latency? Or does it depend on the brand/type of mouse

I want to replace my Logitech G500 with a wireless variant because I hate having wires anywhere on my desk.
But so far, the stigma of wireless mice having high latency and being 'unsuitable for gaming' has kept me rather hesitant to invest just yet.

 

[Calabi]

I take no issue with the placement of the consoles. My problem is that the numbers are universally too high.

While this does not affect the comparison, it might cause issues when we later end up comparing latency tests from other sources.

It must be the whole systems input lag, with the difficulty of isolating the specific controller.

 

[Izuna]

This is no where near scientific enough to draw serious conclusions from.

But Wifi Direct >> Bluetooth 4.0 for various reasons

Since Bloodborne is the one other game I have a PS4 for, the extreme input lag in that game was one of the worst I've played this gen, so anecdotely it's not even the main issue.

 

[Izuna]

Does the same apply for wireless mice? In that Bluetooth delivers very low latency? Or does it depend on the brand/type of mouse

I want to replace my Logitech G500 with a wireless variant because I hate having wires anywhere on my desk.
But so far, the stigma of wireless mice having high latency and being 'unsuitable for gaming' has kept me rather hesitant to invest just yet.

Get the G403 and never look back

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Since Bloodborne is the one other game I have a PS4 for, the extreme input lag in that game was one of the worst I've played this gen, so anecdotely it's not even the main issue.

Extreme input lag in Bloodborne ? Always seemed nice and responive to me. Just like the Souls games, the controls are nice and tight, one reason why so many people like Bloodborne and Souls.

 

[Fredrik]

Simple chain of latency

Controller - Press a button
(wireless latency)
Console - A button on the controller has been pressed
(hardware and software latency)
Console - new image is sent showing the new action
(HDMI latency)
AV receiver - new image received
(image processing latency)
AV receiver - sending new image
(HDMI latency)
TV - new image data received
(image processing and display response time latency)
TV - Action is shown

It all adds up to more than you think. I don't envy frame counters in the fighting game community. Can't be easy to find hardware fast enough to do frame counting today.

 

[adamsapple]

Prey on PS4 seems reaaaaaaaaaaaaal bad in terms of latency. Will wait for a few patches and the game dropping down in price before picking it up.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Prey on PS4 seems reaaaaaaaaaaaaal bad in terms of latency. Will wait for a few patches and the game dropping down in price before picking it up.

The demo had problems but not sure if it was fixed in full game yet. The devs said they would be sorting it out but not sure if it will be a patch or if it was already done for launch.

 

[BigEmil]

PS4 Pro & Slim uses Bluetooth 4.0 while standard PS4 uses Bluetooth 2.5 afaik, the new DS4 controllers also got direct usb communication mode too

This is no where near scientific enough to draw serious conclusions from.

But Wifi Direct >> Bluetooth 4.0 for various reasons

Since Bloodborne is the one other game I have a PS4 for, the extreme input lag in that game was one of the worst I've played this gen, so anecdotely it's not even the main issue.

What are those various reasons?
Also been playing switching between Nioh and Bloodborne alot recently definitely not "extreme input lag" heck not even any input lag for me seemed nearlu just as responsive as Nioh. Bloodborne while 30fps it does have framepacing issues so maybe that is what is making you think that and maybe affect input lag abit there too

 

[Doomshine]

Wasn't it tested that the new PS4 controller wired was actually worse than wireless or did they fix that?

 

[Fafalada]

But Wifi Direct >> Bluetooth 4.0 for various reasons

And rather inconsequential when it comes to game-input response.

Between TV post-process and Game-generating image latency, the rest of the latency chain combined (including controller latency) rarely amounts to more than 1%.

 

[Izuna]

And rather inconsequential when it comes to game-input response.

Between TV post-process and Game-generating image latency, the rest of the latency chain combined (including controller latency) rarely amounts to more than 1%.

For sure, but I'm not talking just latency for the reasons you make.

 

[Primethius]

It's a bit strange that the video mentions roughly Dishonored 2 levels of input lag on both Xb1 and PS4 for Prey but the impressions from Xbox folk for both the demo and the full version indicate otherwise.

Wonder what's going on there.

 

[Izuna]

Extreme input lag in Bloodborne ? Always seemed nice and responive to me. Just like the Souls games, the controls are nice and tight, one reason why so many people like Bloodborne and Souls.

Extreme is a strong word, but it's very noticable. But I play on PC monitors so I would notice more. If you're on a TV then it's a minimal addition, perhaps.

 

[Peltz]

I will watch this. Input lag is one of the reasons I have a CRT for old games.

 

[etta]

It's a bit strange that the video mentions roughly Dishonored 2 levels of input lag on both Xb1 and PS4 for Prey but the impressions from Xbox folk for both the demo and the full version indicate otherwise.

Wonder what's going on there.

.

😉

 

[SURGEdude]

It's a bit strange that the video mentions roughly Dishonored 2 levels of input lag on both Xb1 and PS4 for Prey but the impressions from Xbox folk for both the demo and the full version indicate otherwise.

Wonder what's going on there.

NX also got totally strange ratings for Tomb Raider in the past. I'm starting to think there is something seriously out of whack in his set-up.

 

[ne1]

I am looking to cover more on this with a Web article, more tests and improvement of my methodologies.

Looking forward towards it!

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Extreme is a strong word, but it's very noticable. But I play on PC monitors so I would notice more. If you're on a TV then it's a minimal addition, perhaps.

Ah right, fair enough. Yeah definitely not really noticable on a TV and I have a 55" 4k Sony X8509C, so the input lag on my TV (in game mode) is pretty average, far from the lowest that some TV's have, but still at a level that is perfectly playable, even with HDR.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Ah right, fair enough. Yeah definitely not really noticable on a TV and I have a 55" 4k Sony X8509C, so the input lag on my TV (in game mode) is pretty average, far from the lowest that some TV's have, but still at a level that is perfectly playable, even with HDR.

It's pretty responsive on my Samsung set in PC Mode, and I've tried it on my monitor, but there weren't any noticeable differences to me. Certainly not enough to say it exhibits more than average input lag.

 

[Fredrik]

I will watch this. Input lag is one of the reasons I have a CRT for old games.

About that, has anyone compared NES Classic Mini on a modern TV to a NES on a CRT?
Like I mentioned, a friend of mine couldn't deal with the latency when playing NES games on a Raspberry Pi. Not sure if the latency was Pi related or just the modern katency chain I mentioned above.

 

[Calabi]

It's a bit strange that the video mentions roughly Dishonored 2 levels of input lag on both Xb1 and PS4 for Prey but the impressions from Xbox folk for both the demo and the full version indicate otherwise.

Wonder what's going on there.

Could it not be that, XBOX gamers are used to the terrible input lag? I'm just saying I wouldn't trust anecdotal statements this at least has data to back it up.

 

[etta]

Could it not be that, XBOX gamers are used to the terrible input lag? I'm just saying I wouldn't trust anecdotal statements this at least has data to back it up.

Where did this stigma that Xbox has terrible input lag come from? GAF?

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Could it not be that, XBOX gamers are used to the terrible input lag? I'm just saying I wouldn't trust anecdotal statements this at least has data to back it up.

It's not like the Xbox has terrible input lag, it just appears to be a little worse than PS4. If this was a major issue we would have known about it for a long time now. These input times are still nearly unnoticeable in most cases and like the video shows, it is different depending on the game too.

 

[Izuna]

Where did this stigma that Xbox has terrible input lag come from? GAF?

The video this thread is based on

 

[nynt9]

Where did this stigma that Xbox has terrible input lag come from? GAF?

Rise of the Tomb Raider had pretty bad input lag on the Xbone version that wasn't present in other versions, even 360. That might be where it started.

 

[FunkyDealer]

I use Ps4 pro and and connect ds4 using a long cable.

I do this as well. But because of the crap batterylife, not latency.