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Real Crouch is CTRL

Yep.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I definitely prefer controller play. This is mainly due to analog stick movement of the player character (Not aiming, but movement). Using wasd for that just isn't a good solution. I do like the added precision of a mouse for aiming, but not enough to overcome the previous. My ideal solution ultimately looks something like a steam controller or the use of gyro for finer aiming than using a stick. As it stands though, a controller is always going to be my preference manner of play. Keyboard button use definitely isn't as convenient for the way the majority of games are created also, but I do like the ability to customize keybindings which you often don't see for controllers.

 

[Paragon]

Unless you want something like that Couchmaster or a Roccat Sova, I wouldn't try using KB&M on a couch.
If you have a single-seat chair with large squared-off armrests, maybe something like a Razer Orbweaver/Tartarus + Mouse could also work.

But I'd generally recommend a Steam Controller or even a DualShock 4 with the gyro enabled, if you're trying to game at a couch.

 

[Vince DiCola]

Mouse and Keyboard is fine and everything but I miss rumble whenever I use it.
Controller for life

 

[Shifty]

Real crouch is backslash.

Spoiler

On a UK keyboard. And ESDF is real movement no matter where you live. Fight me.

And, to be on-topic, how much have you experimented with your mouse sensitivity OP?
I found that turning mine way down relative to what I thought I needed was the key to getting a comfortable aiming experience.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

There's no reason to use it for anything other than 4X, RTS, point and click adventure games, Sim City, Diablo/CRPG's, FPS and the like.

WASD platformers, mouse aiming run n gun Contra/Metal Slug, trying to sneak in MGSV etc is nonsense. It's like riding a bicycle with 7 pedals and size 22 Shaq shoes, and steering with rope pulley wind sails instead of handlebars.

I have no beef with PC, though. There's been times in my life where I played on a PC or laptop for years, but all I can think of is that TotalBiscuit video where he was reviewing a fighting game keyboard back when Street Fighter V came out an just "butwhy.gif" in my mind. Everyone's entitled to do their thing however they want, though.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

There's no reason to use it for anything other than 4X, RTS, point and click adventure games, Sim City, Diablo/CRPG's, FPS and the like.

WASD platformers, mouse aiming run n gun Contra/Metal Slug, trying to sneak in MGSV etc is nonsense. It's like riding a bicycle with 7 pedals and size 22 Shaq shoes, and steering with rope pulley wind sails instead of handlebars.

I have no beef with PC, though. There's been times in my life where I played on a PC or laptop for years, but all I can think of is that TotalBiscuit video where he was reviewing a fighting game keyboard back when Street Fighter V came out an just "butwhy.gif" in my mind. Everyone's entitled to do their thing however they want, though.

Even anything deals with aiming, especially if it requires a form of accuracy, I will almost always rather go KB+M. However something like Rocket League, NHL 17 and Tekken I find to be better with a controller.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I can't either, at least not for FPS and what not.

I really have no desire to anyway. It's awkward on a lap desk and I'd rather not game at all than game at my desk/on my monitor as I spend too many hours that for work, GAF etc. already.

 

[GurgleBot20]

There's no reason to use it for anything other than 4X, RTS, point and click adventure games, Sim City, Diablo/CRPG's, FPS and the like.

WASD platformers, mouse aiming run n gun Contra/Metal Slug, trying to sneak in MGSV etc is nonsense. It's like riding a bicycle with 7 pedals and size 22 Shaq shoes, and steering with rope pulley wind sails instead of handlebars.

There are a ton of games that fall under the categories in your first part, they're barely niche genres.

I also don't really understand why it wouldn't be good good for 2D platformers. Hell, SC: Chaos Theory felt pretty good with KB+M and had a pretty good solution for analog control (you could argue that was more precises than a stick).

Also, mouse aiming in Contra/Metal Slug?

 

[Dubz]

CTRL for Prone, C for Crouch

You mean x for prone and c for crouch, right?

 

[Novocaine]

Real Crouch is CTRL

Yep.

When I was primarily PC I used whatever felt right depending on each game. Counterstrike I'd use M+KB, Bioshock I'd use a controller.

I'm definitely in the same camp where I like to slouch and it's definitely much harder when you are using a keyboard. I never had a hard time adapting though. I don't think you're missing out on too much.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I don't really consider using a m&k proper gaming tbh. They're designed for web browsing and creating word / excel documents.

This isn't even good bait.

 

[R0ckman]

Well for FPS games, mainly the mouse is the thing that is far superior. You have to be insane to recommend WSAD for movement over analog.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

There's no reason to use it for anything other than 4X, RTS, point and click adventure games, Sim City, Diablo/CRPG's, FPS and the like.

"why use Mouse and Keyboard for anything other than (the most popular and most played genres in gaming today)."
is a common post on GAF
but for some reason
"Why use controller for anything other than platformers, racing sims, and fighting games"
isn't
I wonder why that is tho

Well for FPS games, mainly the mouse is the thing that is far superior. You have to be insane to recommend WSAD for movement over analog.

Not really. I'd recommend WSAD over analog for movement any day of the week in shooters tbh

 

[NinjamicWZ]

There are a ton of games that fall under the categories in your first part, they're barely niche genres.

I didn't say they were and there was absolutely nothing derisive implied about them, as I enjoy playing a ton of 4X, CRPG's etc myself, and used to beast at Quake III (with jump mapped to the right mouse button though, screw the space bar)

Also, mouse aiming in Contra/Metal Slug?

I also don't really understand why it wouldn't be good good for 2D platformers.

Just a genre example of run n gun, not a literal instance of those specific games. There are lots of 2D sidescrollers I've played which utilize mouse aiming for shooting, that I just can't comfortably play that way, and can't get good xpadder set ups for those games built to play with KB&M that way. I also don't like the gravitational floatiness that's injected into some PC native sidescrollers in order to compensate for awkwardness of WASD directional control... it's like jumps are higher and descents are slower to give you more time to type your way into the right spot. Think Super Frog vs Super Mario.

 

[RoboPlato]

Keyboards put me in a lot of pain while gaming. Mouse is great but I really can't stand keyboards. A big part of why I stopped playing games on PC a while back.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

"why use Mouse and Keyboard for anything other than (the most popular and most played genres in gaming today)."
is a common post on GAF
but for some reason
"Why use controller for anything other than platformers, racing sims, and fighting games"
isn't
I wonder why that is tho

Or, if you weren't so sensitive, you could have read that post as "if you're playing these genres you should be using a mouse and keyboard, if possible"

...and then the rest of the post as "but forcing yourself to use mouse and keyboard for genres where it really just doesn't make much sense, is a waste of your time and needless posturing."

Hey, though... GAF gonna GAF. I can act like that too.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I'm with you OP. When playing games I do so with a controller and I tend to slump back like the lazy PoS that I am. Keyboard and mouse just don't do it for me because of this.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

Can someone give me a good solution for mouse and keyboard control on a big-screen TV sitting far away on a couch? I have a wireless mouse already.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Or, if you weren't so sensitive, you could have read that post as "if you're playing these genres you should be using a mouse and keyboard, if possible"

...and then the rest of the post as "but forcing yourself to use mouse and keyboard for genres where it really just doesn't make much sense, is a waste of your time and needless posturing."

Hey, though... GAF gonna GAF. I can act like that too.

Sorry that my response did a disservice to you and the point you were making. My response was reactionary, surface-level shit. I have a habit of homing in on one or two parts of a post. I delete the rest of a post in my responses so I can center in on responding to one facet of a post, and that has me losing the forest from the trees often enough that I'm just gonna stop doing that shit.

 

[Md Ray]

So I always use a controller, no matter what kind of game I'm playing. This means I can't really get into a bunch of FPS and multiplayer stuff is like usually beyond me, but that's cool. I just stay away from multiplayer except when playing with friends and everything is fine. I tried giving mouse / keyboard a go a couple times but it never clicked with me.

Friend of mine is huge on mouse/keyboard so he tried getting me into it again, because he figures that I'd enjoy myself more even if it was only for single player games. So I gave it a shot and...to be honest, just not feeling it. Like just to be clear: I understand mouse/keyboard is a more accurate input method. I just don't really find it comfortable.

I kinda like playing games kind of lazily sinking into my chair(or couch), and doing that with a keyboard is kind of difficult. Like, I'm sure it's doable, just not really feeling it. Tried just sitting up straight to play as well and it felt like I was forcing myself to play instead of just, well, having fun. I mean I'd like to get used to mouse/keyboard because being able to play some multiplayer games would be rad, and if nothing else stuff like Doom single player is probably more fun with a mouse and keyboard. Just having some issues getting used to it. Also tried just flat out getting the mouse/keyboard to my couch with some thing my friend had, and to be honest I felt like my girlfriend trying to use an analogue stick for the first time. It was just weird.

So yeah, I'm half giving up on this keyboard experiment, but I figured before I do that I might as well ask if any of you guys had a similar experience trying out keyboard for the first time and had any recommendations on how to maybe make it more comfortable.

Same here, OP... You're not alone. I play all my games on PC using controller, always. And stay away from FPS MP stuff.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Sorry that my response did a disservice to you and the point you were making. My response was reactionary, surface-level shit. I have a habit of homing in on one or two parts of a post. I delete the rest of a post in my responses so I can center in on responding to one facet of a post, and that has me losing the forest from the trees often enough that I'm just gonna stop doing that shit.

Well, then I'm sorry for being a sarcastic asshole back to you. That's my own bad habit too.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Well, then I'm sorry for being a sarcastic asshole back to you. That's my own bad habit too.

I appreciate it, but you don't have to be sorry, my posting habits really do merit those sorts of responses back. I'd be being dishonest if I said I my posts don't invite the same level of discourse I often balk against.

 

[PandaShake]

It comes with time. Keep trying. Nothing more to say.

 

[mikelarry]

OP i am in the same boat, i tried for several months and just could not get into it, all i got was cramp in my fingers so i decided to just go back to controller. I don't play competitively so decided to stick with my controller set up and haven't looked back.

I understand mouse and keyboard may be the best way to play for some but for me personally I prefer to play games with a controller

 

[PIMPBYBLUD]

pay respects?

or "c"

Well done! Got a laugh out of me.

 

[Vital Tundra]

It'll click eventually.

 

[void666]

I only use mouse/keyboard when i play mp fps games. Everything else, including sp fps, i prefer using a controller.
I built my first gaming pc back in 2008. It took me a while to get used to M/K.

 

[theAntagonist]

Mice and keyboards are controllers designed specifically to interface with menus and input text.

Gamepads are controllers designed specifically to control characters/objects on screen.

So, to me OP, you aren't strange.

I personally much prefer to play games that are focused around controlling characters/objects, rather than navigating menus/managing systems.

While I think it is far easier to control and place cross-hairs/reticules in FPS games with a M&KB as the raw input data can be translated directly to screen space movement, I don't think that games designed around M&KB input are nearly as fun to play.

Designing shooting games to feel good on analog sticks takes a real skill, and there's a reason why there are only a few successful controller based FPS games on the market. It's less because M&KB is a hands down superior method of input/control, but more about that it's far more difficult to design character and reticule movement around more broad gestures input on sticks with thumbs.

For me, the way I see it is, controlling characters/objects with a gamepad is a far more naturalistic representation of input and control, whereas controlling characters/objects with a M&KB is a far more synthetic means of input and control.

When I play a game that's about controlling a character or object with a gamepad, I feel like I am embodying the character/object. When I play a game that's about controlling a character or object with a mouse and keyboard, I feel like I am inputting commands for the character/object to respond to, detached, if that makes sense.

For instance, imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy with a mouse and keyboard. It just doesn't seem appealing in the slightest. Playing FPS on pad feels like I am controlling a character, playing FPS on M&KB feels like I am controlling a camera on a dolly that can zip down corridors forward, backward, left to right, with the camera on a swivel.

 

[GurgleBot20]

I also don't like the gravitational floatiness that's injected into some PC native sidescrollers in order to compensate for awkwardness of WASD directional control... it's like jumps are higher and descents are slower to give you more time to type your way into the right spot. Think Super Frog vs Super Mario.

Are you sure that's WASD awkwardness and not awkward platforming physics? I never played Super Frog, but I will say that the Commander Keen games were a little awkward. That said, Super Mario is kind of a high bar to meet.

 

[L Thammy]

I played a lot of text parser games when I grew up, and so switching to the mouse pissed me off because I didn't have the control that comes with typing "shit" and "suck blue frog". I can't stand playing games with the mouse even to this day.

 

[Nickle]

A mouse+keyboard usually isn't going to make a game more fun unless you intend to play it competitively. For most single player games, a controller works just fine.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Boy, you never played computer games back in the day or something?

 

[Jumeira]

Agreed, it doesn't feel right and will always prefer controllers over km

 

[Kudo]

I've been playing all my life and it still doesn't "feel right" when compared to controllers of this era, too big of a leap in ergonomics.
I use MKB with FPS and MMOs but it's nice to see for example FFXIV offer really great controller support even on PC that doesn't lose to MKB.

 

[jaydub6669]

I use a Playstation Move navigation controler for movement on my pc with a mouse. Grew up on consoles so the transition to M/KB is rough for me too.

 

[Stevey]

Real Crouch is mouse button 4.

That's melee :v

 

[poodaddy]

You pretty much sound like a lazy millennial.

Please don't be too insulted lol.


Keyboard and mouse can be steep if you grew up only playing games with a controller, but just keep at it and it becomes second nature if not better. Takes some time to get the muscle memory down. Also just get over slouching, or just get a comfy computer chair I guess.

Probably one of the most idiotic posts I've seen on this site.

It all just depends on what you were raised with OP. I grew up playing a mix of PC and console games but I started on controllers, therefore I prefer them. Had I started on keyboard, I'd probably prefer that. Can do either, but we all have our preference and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[dangeROSS]

I feel you OP. I can use the keyboard for gaming and be ok, but it's never super comfy or natural to me.

For a while I used the Playstation Navigation controller in combo with a mouse and made a video about it:
https://youtu.be/iT2ttUyagDc


I also tried the old Microsoft strategic Commander and had some decent results:
https://youtu.be/phNBzyPjlgc?list=PL9qh5xuGtA4IDP6lNJjPiW9Adp2Ej-Jzk


And there is the Razer Hydra which can be a bit more work to set up but functions alright:
https://youtu.be/iU_MAV135Ao?list=PL9qh5xuGtA4LlWLFI3P9osdHMB9ZjSrYB


Now-a-days I use the Steam Controller mostly. The Steam controller streamlines the process a bit and having pre-made configs for games that you can tweak to your liking is nice. It's not perfect and the software still has problems crashing/freezing. But I like it overall.

The Razer Nostromo is another nice option and may be the best thing if you want a physical joystick in conjunction with a mouse. It is a mini Keyboard/Joystick device. Mapping WASD to the joystick and other commands to the regular keys provides a good way to play. I have had issues with it causing problems with Xbox controllers in games however. Somehow once installed it takes precedent over other HID devices and it took me forever to figure out that the Nostromo was causing the issue. So just be aware of that if you still use controllers too. Razer released a new version of the Nostromo called the Tartarus. But with the Tartarus Razer decided that to be configurable you NEED to use their cloud software with the device. And it sounds like the software sucks. Why they wanted to add digital DRM to a physical product I have no idea. So unfortunately I have avoided it. Logitech has their own version of a keypad/stick as well. But I'm not as familiar with that.

Heck at one point I even was rocking a Steelseries Merc keyboard. Which has a dedicated section of keys set up for gaming purposes. One I realized it was rare to come by though I sold it to finance other controller options. There are other keypad options like the Wolf King Warrior and the like.

Hopefully some of this info is helpful!

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Join US, OP, JOIN USSSS...

(or get a steam controller, works fine too)

I tried this... It's just flat out not accurate enough for games like CSGO.

 

[wuth]

Mice and keyboards are controllers designed specifically to interface with menus and input text.

Gamepads are controllers designed specifically to control characters/objects on screen.

So, to me OP, you aren't strange.

I personally much prefer to play games that are focused around controlling characters/objects, rather than navigating menus/managing systems.

While I think it is far easier to control and place cross-hairs/reticules in FPS games with a M&KB as the raw input data can be translated directly to screen space movement, I don't think that games designed around M&KB input are nearly as fun to play.

Designing shooting games to feel good on analog sticks takes a real skill, and there's a reason why there are only a few successful controller based FPS games on the market. It's less because M&KB is a hands down superior method of input/control, but more about that it's far more difficult to design character and reticule movement around more broad gestures input on sticks with thumbs.

For me, the way I see it is, controlling characters/objects with a gamepad is a far more naturalistic representation of input and control, whereas controlling characters/objects with a M&KB is a far more synthetic means of input and control.

When I play a game that's about controlling a character or object with a gamepad, I feel like I am embodying the character/object. When I play a game that's about controlling a character or object with a mouse and keyboard, I feel like I am inputting commands for the character/object to respond to, detached, if that makes sense.

For instance, imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy with a mouse and keyboard. It just doesn't seem appealing in the slightest. Playing FPS on pad feels like I am controlling a character, playing FPS on M&KB feels like I am controlling a camera on a dolly that can zip down corridors forward, backward, left to right, with the camera on a swivel.

It's so strange that you would consider the controller more natural when the mouse is much better at emulating the fine articulation required for aiming a gun or making quick, natural gestures (specifically when it comes to controlling the camera, like you were saying).

When I'm using a controller to play a FPS, I feel the exact opposite. It feels like I'm controlling a robot or operating levers on the back of a character's head.

I'll give you this though: the WASD keys are inferior to the analogue stick when it comes to movement and that certainly feels much more natural, which is why they lend themselves to 3rd person games.

 

[WaterAstro]

Do you use controller for Word Processing and Spreadsheets?

 

[Huge Succeeded]

It's so strange that you would consider the controller more natural when the mouse is much better at emulating the fine articulation required for aiming a gun or making quick, natural gestures (specifically when it comes to controlling the camera, like you were saying).

When I'm using a controller to play a FPS, I feel the exact opposite. It feels like I'm controlling a robot or operating levers on the back of a character's head.

I'll give you this though: the WASD keys are inferior to the analogue stick when it comes to movement and that certainly feels much more natural, which is why they lend themselves to 3rd person games.

people say that a lot (that WASD are inferior to analog stick for movement in general), but I don't believe that's actually the case with, say, the lion's share of FPS games, for example. I get a lot more out of being able to change movement direction instantly and with precision, than I ever would out of being able to move 37* (something that's easy and natural to compensate for with a mouse, anyway).

There's key genres, and a handful of games within other genres, where analog movement is absolutely integral - but for FPS games, I think the importance of analog movement is vastly overstated.

 

[theAntagonist]

It's so strange that you would consider the controller more natural when the mouse is much better at emulating the fine articulation required for aiming a gun or making quick, natural gestures (specifically when it comes to controlling the camera, like you were saying).

When I'm using a controller to play a FPS, I feel the exact opposite. It feels like I'm controlling a robot or operating levers on the back of a character's head.

I'll give you this though: the WASD keys are inferior to the analogue stick when it comes to movement and that certainly feels much more natural, which is why they lend themselves to 3rd person games.

Yeah I know it's a bit of a strange position to maintain.

To articulate a little more, in FPS games designed around analog stick input, the fastest way to spin around is to move both your body (left stick) and your head (right stick) in conjunction, where as with games designed around M&KB input, its faster to just spin the camera with the mouse (head). Essentially, it's the difference between re-orienting the character and re-orienting the camera.

With M&KB FPS, basically all of the movement and control is governed by the camera (mouse) as if its on a swivel plate on a post. You move the camera swivel to orient in the direction you want the post to move, and then the body aligns and moves forward in the direction the camera points. You move the head, and the body follows.

With gamepads, you really have to move the body and the head in conjunction with one another in order to maximize speed and efficacy, like how you would move around in person.

I don't think I'm necessarily doing a good job articulating my point, but this is all just personal preference.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Sticks really do feel like the clumsiest of ways to control a shooter when you compare it to kb/m. That is why it's frustrating that I'm having so much trouble readjusting. You'd think it would be like riding a bicycle

The only benefit to sticks in FPS is that tight turning is a bit easier, a bit. I guess I just never stopped playing on both so I can play on both.

 

[eot]

Real Crouch is CTRL

Crouch is space

Jump is RMB

Designing shooting games to feel good on analog sticks takes a real skill, and there's a reason why there are only a few successful controller based FPS games on the market. It's less because M&KB is a hands down superior method of input/control, but more about that it's far more difficult to design character and reticule movement around more broad gestures input on sticks with thumbs.

How is this an argument for gamepad shooters? Sure, tuning all the auto-aim parameters takes more work than designing for a control scheme that has accurate input. How does that make the games better?

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Yeah I know it's a bit of a strange position to maintain.

To articulate a little more, in FPS games designed around analog stick input, the fastest way to spin around is to move both your body (left stick) and your head (right stick) in conjunction, where as with games designed around M&KB input, its faster to just spin the camera with the mouse (head). Essentially, it's the difference between re-orienting the character and re-orienting the camera.

With M&KB FPS, basically all of the movement and control is governed by the camera (mouse) as if its on a swivel plate on a post. You move the camera swivel to orient in the direction you want the post to move, and then the body aligns and moves forward in the direction the camera points. You move the head, and the body follows.

With gamepads, you really have to move the body and the head in conjunction with one another in order to maximize speed and efficacy, like how you would move around in person.

I don't think I'm necessarily doing a good job articulating my point, but this is all just personal preference.

yeah, from a game feel perspective, I can understand where you're coming from - but I don't think that discussion should end at aim and movement, and I think it's wrong to argue that one input method is more natural than another on anything but a game-by-game basis.

Consider DOOM. A game where you're meant to feel like a true destructive force, where precision of aim and movement are paramount. Where switching movement direction on a dime or wheeling around to shoot someone behind you does represent the natural state of your character.

Players experienced with a controller can enjoy that experience, too - but they have to use a weapon wheel to switch weapons. That's less 'natural', or at the very least less conducive to the intended game feel, than my experience with the game - hot-switching to any weapon on command, without interrupting the action or my momentum, thanks to my ability to map each of my separate weapons to a different mouse (or keyboard) key.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Are you sure that's WASD awkwardness and not awkward platforming physics? I never played Super Frog, but I will say that the Commander Keen games were a little awkward. That said, Super Mario is kind of a high bar to meet.

Game quality isn't really what I'm getting at.

 

[mokeyjoe]

I've been playing mouse and keyboard since Doom, but I don't like it much. Great for accuracy, but uncomfortable. And with RSI, uncomfortable to the point of pain sometimes.

I wouldn't mind trying a Steam controller some time though.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

As a great man once said, trying is the first step towards failure. Being a lazy gamer such as yourself, you should know better than to even try something new and persist with it until you get better as that will temporarily take you out of your comfort zone.

Play 4 hours a session using KB/M until you reach 100 hours, that's 25 sessions, then come back to give us your results.