killatopak
Gold Member
NieR Automata eyyyyy!
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Even if it sold particularly well it would not have made it due to it being on sale for $20.
barneystuta83
Member
The charts now ranked 'by revenue', does that include DLC and/or micro-transactions?
Or is it pure 'sales' revenue?
Or is it pure 'sales' revenue?
TheMoon
Member
Given how much tension we already see in sales threads, including in very slow months, I hope things can remain civil during the Holidays...
Fate and Awakening did roughly the same number, with small variation.
Retailers buy copies from publisher in advance, so I think their financial report does include some sale from the west. Of course second shipment and digital purchase are not included.
Mass Effect
Member
4 months later and we're still doing this Horizon vs Zelda shit?
Makes me wonder how this will all shake out for the industry in the future. Right now, you could say it's a bit of a gold rush, no? GaaS is a relatively new thing for consoles, which is why we're seeing a pretty high number of success stories from these AAA games adopting the strategy. But the question is, as you and others have alluded to, how much can the market sustain? I have to imagine we're going to hit a limit soon.
Because for me, as a "core gamer," there are only so many of these GaaS I want to bother with at any given time. They're time-consuming and (can be) expensive. I simply don't have the time or money for a bunch of them simultaneously. It makes me wonder if this will start to become the sentiment among other consumers, where they'll stick to their favorite and the others will suffer for it. Because there's a difference between me consistently playing Destiny while being able to get in a few traditional single-player experiences at the same time versus having those previously traditional games turned into services that I have to juggle with my limited gaming time. At some point something's gotta give.
Like, say if they turned Assassin's Creed into this service game that I either need to invest a significant amount of time or money in to make any real progress, then I'm going to be like "oh, well I don't have time for all these grindfest games... guess I'll be skipping AC then."
I guess the idea is that the publishers maybe I don't put that much stock into AC (or whatever AAA series here), but someone else does, and they will be more than willing to drop some cash on their favorite franchise that they spend the majority of their gaming time on. Sure, most players won't spend anything, but the goal is to grab the superfans and those that don't mind dropping a little extra if it means getting that new weapon or skin a little sooner.
Makes me wonder how this will all shake out for the industry in the future. Right now, you could say it's a bit of a gold rush, no? GaaS is a relatively new thing for consoles, which is why we're seeing a pretty high number of success stories from these AAA games adopting the strategy. But the question is, as you and others have alluded to, how much can the market sustain? I have to imagine we're going to hit a limit soon.
Because for me, as a "core gamer," there are only so many of these GaaS I want to bother with at any given time. They're time-consuming and (can be) expensive. I simply don't have the time or money for a bunch of them simultaneously. It makes me wonder if this will start to become the sentiment among other consumers, where they'll stick to their favorite and the others will suffer for it. Because there's a difference between me consistently playing Destiny while being able to get in a few traditional single-player experiences at the same time versus having those previously traditional games turned into services that I have to juggle with my limited gaming time. At some point something's gotta give.
Like, say if they turned Assassin's Creed into this service game that I either need to invest a significant amount of time or money in to make any real progress, then I'm going to be like "oh, well I don't have time for all these grindfest games... guess I'll be skipping AC then."
I guess the idea is that the publishers maybe I don't put that much stock into AC (or whatever AAA series here), but someone else does, and they will be more than willing to drop some cash on their favorite franchise that they spend the majority of their gaming time on. Sure, most players won't spend anything, but the goal is to grab the superfans and those that don't mind dropping a little extra if it means getting that new weapon or skin a little sooner.
joe_zazen
Member
Games are bigger than ever. And as companies get better at using data to manipulate customers, it will only get bigger. Even casino tycoons in Macau and Las Vegas are trying to video-game-ize their business.
InsaneTiger
Member
Only one must live right?
Given the objectI've sales data for Switch, Zelda and Horizon indicates they had essentially zero observable impact on each other's sales nor is it likely either company made major decisions based on the closeness of their respective launchesit's getting silly really. They're really not in competition beyond the common fact with many other games they're on display different platforms.
I mean the old dumbbell gif antics around unrelated exclusives swapping places in charts is fun but continuing to argue options that seem to have been disproved puzzles me.
ethomaz
Banned
We know since start Nintendo won't ship 4m units to Japan with a 10m forecast.
It is really something made up inside some minds but I still believes it can sell 2 million this fiscal year.
don't let the few shitposters successfully derail a thread, just ignore them
edit: actually looking back at the thread it seems like it was a single post. there are far more posts complaining about it and since it was only a single poster "we" is not an accurate term to use.
DC1
Member
Gotdatmoney
Member
10 million forecast was guessed to be conservative. We had no idea it was because of the chip shortage so no, not really.
MatPiscatella
Member
Full game sales for the charts. DLC/MTX not included.
ohyou.jpg
I don't think so. Difference from GaaS versus something like the Wii shovelware wave in the late 00's is that for GaaS to work, you first need a game that finds strong consumer acceptance. That takes a big initial dollar and time investment.
Well, that's the question. One could argue that GaaS really got started in earnest with COD map packs. Which evolved over time into what we're seeing today. I think GaaS has been identified and called out as its own thing with its own acronym only fairly recently. But yes, how much can the market sustain. So far, so good. But what if 50 of the 225+ games that come to retail go this way? 100? At some point there should be a limit, or some game will take things too far... guess we have to wait and see.
Right. So, at some point, if more service games are to exist and thrive, the user base needs to expand. But can the user base expand if only 200 or so games come to the packaged space every year (assuming that digital only releases don't drive console sales, which I guess is a point one could argue against).
So you touch on the point I was trying to make with my response to Nirolak. Having more big service games will result in fewer big games overall coming to market, which, I think, would lessen appeal overall. But in order for more service games to thrive, we need more console audience. Bit of a catch 22.
Nice try.
Nice to see Zelda is doing better than Horizon
The king of adventure is back.
3 posts, my mistake
makes my pre-edit post correct when I said "a few" aka 3
point still stands, don't let a few bad posts successfully derail a thread which is probably their intention anyway
darkstar0155
Member
Wow. This is ridiculous. Im not wasting time counting but there has been way more than three posts (of which the third isn't that big of a deal) complaining about them three posts, or people complaining about people complaining about those three posts. Just move on folks geeze....
The issue is basically that people aren't buying a lot of non-service games, especially relative to the cost of making them.
If you're Sony, that's not a huge issue, because you just start bundling your games up with your hardware, and are generally trying to attract an audience to your platform, so any profit shortfalls can be made up on hardware, licensing fees, and PS+ subscriptions. If one of them works out and makes a lot of money, great, but even really modest profits (or smaller losses) are okay given what they're trying to do.
Other companies however are not pumping in $100+ million to make a $10 million profit. They could do better just lending out money or dumping it in stock market index funds for the 3-5 years it takes to make a game with vastly less risk involved.
That's not to say every singleplayer game doesn't see success, but a major company that's making these kinds of investments is going to chase a bigger market, because these other investments just aren't worthwhile.
Mind, this is different if you're a niche boutique publisher. Shipping 1.5 million copies of Nier Automata is a great result, but Square Enix is a company that operates on a much lower level with much lower expectations than EA or Activision. They have ambitions to grow though, so they've announced they're also jumping in the Games as a Service pool with their biggest titles, because that's where the money is.
Or, to use yet another example, Injustice 2 is marginally up on Injustice 1 in terms of units, but way up on revenue due to special editions that include a bunch of service game content. When we add in the microtransactions on top of that, we start generating the kind of money that justifies the budget increase between Injustice 1 and Injustice 2. If you don't invest that kind of money however, you end up like Capcom where your games just don't live up to industry expectations anymore, and you go from shipping 3.4 million units of Street Fighter IV to 1.6 million units of Street Fighter V.
Omnistalgic
Member
Seems like everyone chasing GAAS will eventually blow up in their faces. There's but so many Minecraft, GTA, Warcraft, and rocket league level success you can have each gen. A huge portion of the user base is occupied in a handful of games, that's part of the appeal actually "everyone is playing this!"
I think Sony is being smart focusing on SP story driven games (just think they need to add 1-2 more ever green titles like a kart racer and a tactical shooter). Nintendo is being smart embracing their IP as they always do, and MS needs to get it together and find a place for their WWS to fit in. Outside of Halo and Forza, they should really stop trying to sell everything as a GAAS, I think it's gonna dry up by next gen, along with some other pubs chasing.
Looking at the Destiny clone and Smh...10 year deal lol...,come on now.
I think Sony is being smart focusing on SP story driven games (just think they need to add 1-2 more ever green titles like a kart racer and a tactical shooter). Nintendo is being smart embracing their IP as they always do, and MS needs to get it together and find a place for their WWS to fit in. Outside of Halo and Forza, they should really stop trying to sell everything as a GAAS, I think it's gonna dry up by next gen, along with some other pubs chasing.
Looking at the Destiny clone and Smh...10 year deal lol...,come on now.
Lostconfused
Member
This is where the old saying of "you need to spend money to make money" comes in. Anyone invested in having a thriving console market will have to make even greater sacrifices in an attempt to expand the market.
"GaaS" is just an extension of AAA/Genre King model of a few select titles sucking majority of consumer dollars, the content delivery system is just changing to accommodate a smoother flow of money from consumers pockets into the publisher's accounts.
There are plenty of other platforms for "services" to thrive besides just consoles, so expanding the market is only a concern for someone already invested.
Nintendo is clearly capable of creating mass market phenomena that could buoy their platform sales or using their existing franchise popularity. On the other hang even something popular like "Minecraft" isn't going to save something like the Vita.
Edit:
Or pull out of the console market or video games in general. You could argue that's what's happening right now in Japan. Unable or unwilling to shoulder the burden of competing with western budges and publishers the Japanese publishers are either turning to the lucrative mobile market available at home or pulling out of video games entirely.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Who are you people who keep buying gta 5? Why? How do you not already own it?
new purchases are made everyday. People buy consoles, GTAV as discounts/gifts, plus there are millions of potential customers still out there
yukianderson
Member
PS4 killing it. In for a massive holiday. Good to see Horizon keep selling well.
I've been busy. I'll get it at some point. Maybe.
Don't count my post. I was mocking how touchy some of you are to such an innocuous post like 13ruce's.
This is very interesting because, to me, it mostly vindicates what the late Iwata had been saying for many years about the AAA industry.
It also closely represents Nintendo basic policy regarding their games lifecycle, with basically little to no yearly sequels to massive franchises, replaced instead by an extended marketing support to so-called evergreen titles with long tails.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
I'm actually much happier with fewer triple a games. The middle ground was going to evaporate, leaving smaller, creative titles, and big budget, heavily advertised productions. It's too risky to make medium budget games.
Majmun
Member
I will never understand these questions...
It's not like the Ps4/X1 stopped selling and there are no new console owners. A lot of consoles still get sold and GTAV seems to be a mandatory pick up for many new users.
When you buy a PS4/XBO, you buy GTAV with it.
EFF You're Right!!
Someone call Miyamoto and tell him to cancel the Mario Theme Park.
Cancel all the toys, merchandise, food, branding, everything! Mario is rip in pieces. Hurry!
Whew, crisis averted.
oh wait....
;---------------------------------------------
Mat said:
Interesting, no AC Origins? And is Madden not listed because it'll release before Q4? And NFS?
joe_zazen
Member
That is where the money is though. LoL, DOTA, FIFA/madden ultimate team, minecraft, wow, elder scrolls online, etc. etc. There are lots of players and the pie is huge. I think players prefer these games you can play for years.
riot president said:
ethomaz
Banned
Are you saying the 10 million forecast from Nintendo was a guess? They did know what they can ship... the forecast is not a random number without any base.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
Nier hanging on, I'm so proud lol. I'm also glad that Horizon overtook the trashfire that is Andromeda.
MatPiscatella
Member
My list was published before E3, and if I were to adjust it, the only change I might make would be AC:O in place of Destiny 2 at #5. NBA 2K has supplanted Madden as the #1 sports franchise in the US, and with the popularity of the NFL taking a bit of a hit I'm guessing it just misses top 5. Wouldn't be surprised to be wrong. They're predictions, just for fun type stuff. As for NFS, I don't see a world where a racing title will crack top 5 in the US.
Exactly.
This is why all the "but Sony" arguments around the service model takeover fall a bit flat. First, there are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions. The presence of these doesn't refute the general trend. Second, like you say, there are other reasons to make those games if you're a first party. There's always going to be room for campaigns and story based modes. If it gets a player into other parts of the game so that they become recurrent spenders, then it's worth the investment. But the days of story based games being the primary way games are made and sold is ancient history.
Eventually? Maybe. But how much money can be made between now and then? Enough to pay the rent and invest in whatever comes next. Been this way in the games business forever. From character mascot platformers to DOOM clones to dance/music to interactive gaming toys. I mean, you know how this works.
DriftingSpirit
Member
MS is targeting their core users with X. The people who are going to buy regardless of what the price and software look like. I think MS is fine with how they are launching it.
Primethius
Banned
I think for a console that was announced so early, and whose negarive impact on XB1 sales some have speculated might have occurred this year, the $499 price really boggles my mind.
The system is clearly only for the XB1 core and the price ensures it. I'm actually a bit shocked given how they seemed to have been positioning it pre-E3 vs. what I feel was them completely dropping the ball at E3.
Scorpio went from a conversation item to a non-factor.
The system is clearly only for the XB1 core and the price ensures it. I'm actually a bit shocked given how they seemed to have been positioning it pre-E3 vs. what I feel was them completely dropping the ball at E3.
Scorpio went from a conversation item to a non-factor.
lwilliams3
Member
The system was always going to be a premium idea, so a $500 price tag was not surprising. Going by DF's info, it's tech backs up that price. The major factor was how Microsoft was going to market it to attract not just the hardcore audience. It's subjective if they made progress with that at this time.
How many core users is that? If it matches PS4 Pro and becomes 10% adoption that's still only 3 million give or take.
Primethius
Banned
I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the box contains value for its price.
What confuses me is that MS spent so much marketing a box to be this new thing for them brand wise, only for it to turn out to be a high end premium product.
Did the core XB1 fans really need all that marketing to convince them to buy Scorpio? Would they not have done that anyways, sort of like the PS4 pro?
It seemed like MS was trying to play Scorpio up and for what? That's where I'm lost. The $499 announcement kills so much of whatever marketing mindshare they might have inched onto the core outside of just the XB1 faithful because the price is simply too high.
ronaldthump
Member
I think andromeda being trashfire is the reason why horizon overtook it.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I'm growing fond of Mat dropping mics on peoples' heads in these threads lol
Bit saddened by P5 dropping off the face of the earth though.
Bit saddened by P5 dropping off the face of the earth though.
Game is 4 years old and is popular with kids. Think of all those kids that have reached a certain age since then.
It's already over 80 million.
Another 20 million is nothing.
The only thing that would slow down GTA V sales is GTA VI, and that's at least another 3-4 years away.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
It's just like the final act of the game.