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[Draxal]

Its impossible to compete with them.

In the next 10 years there's probably going to be a solid argument for breaking them up.

I think they're at the point already tbh.

 

[AndyD]

HALF of US households have Prime? That's hard to believe.

There are multiple reasons to have it though. Some have it mainly for Amazon Video and pair it with Netflix to forego cable.

But it's still very impressive.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I buy all of my new games and big tech from BestBuy with GCU and I buy almost everything else from Amazon.

Baby food
Miscellaneous tech
Movies and TV discs
Clothes
Books
Game accessories
Hardware
Lawn care stuff
Etc

Why should I go out to half a dozen stores to buy all that when I can have it delivered to my door in two days. If Amazon had grocery delivery where I live I'd use that and if they could deliver gasoline I'd stop going to gas stations.

 

[el jacko]

What do people against Amazon want here? Those mom and pop stores in every town will never come back. If Amazon didn't exist another giant corporation would take its place, most likely Walmart.

Amazon and zeal-Mart are just manifestations of the same phenomenon.

I want anti-trust legislation to protect smaller, regional businesses, combined with land-use policy to provide daily-life alternatives to driving.

I do get the sense that this line of thought is an on-starter in the US outside of 3-4 major cities, which I why I'm leaving for abroad in the fall - and maybe never coming back!!

 

[RumblingRosco]

I don't fault Amazon at all for taking advantage of the free market. That's the world we live in and that's the system they're using within the boundaries of the law.

However, I've rapidly tried to cut back on my Amazon spending, starting first by letting our Prime membership lapse last fall. I'd rather buy local when I can, or shop online at Target/Best Buy/Jet.com/any other retailer... not that Jet (owned by Walmart) is necessarily better than Amazon, but I recognized my own spending was primarily at Amazon over the last half decade and decided I wanted to try and diversify where I spend my money, if at all possible.

 

[arigato]

This paints a very grim picture but I also remember 15+ years ago a ton of people ringing similar alarm bells about Walmart and how they were going to put every other super market out of business and such and destroy the very fiber of the communities they popped up in and now? Walmart doesn't really scare people anymore.

In xx amount of years some other online commerce store will likely raise up to challenge Amazon.

I remember the South Park episodes about Walmart and Blockbuster around the same timeframe you're talking about lol.

 

[RMI]

I don't know what it's like in the US but in the UK they are not competitive at all when it comes to new releases or pre-orders.

if you have prime there is no reason to not pre-order through amazon, except for maybe using the Best Buy GCU if you buy a lot of stuff and get rewards frequently. 20% off and easy cancellation up until the game ships, and also release day delivery. It's just good.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I actually don't think Amazon should be broken up. The way it is going Amazon is going to be an amazing tool for resource delivery in a post-labor and post-scarcity economy. Once they replace their warehouse workers with robots and start nationwide automates delivery in a decade they'll be in the perfect place to nationalize and use to facilitate fair distribution of goods and necessities.

 

[otake]

This has been obvious for a long time.

I never understood how states allowed them to not collect sales tax for so many years. I've assumed they bought off state senators or something. It killed Borders books first. Then it's just gone on.

Amazon was able to sell products cheaply long enough to kill a lot of competition.

I don't see how we are better off, honestly.

Buying products you haven't previously bought can be error prone. And when things go wrong you have to ship it back. You no longer get the touch products before buying them. You have to rely on reviews that sound like advertisements for the product.

Honestly, we end up buying things and returning them over and over. My mother bought me workout clothes. It's the right size only when I put it on it's too large. Had to send it back and order another one. It's a hassle.

 

[Netherscourge]

We need to make space-born stuff more valuable so the economic shift is toward space exploration.

Some sort of fuel or food or building material that people WANT and NEED.

We need some sort of miracle resource that only exists off-Earth in order to promote technology at this point.

All Humans are doing now is finding ways to be lazy and less productive while making as much money as they can with the least amount of effort. It's completely contradictory to evolution and progress.

TL;DR - we need to get the fuck off this planet and we need to have a sustainable economic reason to do so.

 

[slit]

This has been obvious for a long time.

I never understood how congress states allowed them to not collect sales tax for so many years. I've assumed they bought off state senators or something. It killed Borders books first. Then it's just gone on.

Because businesses that ran in one state were never obliged to collect sales tax for another state. That was in place way before Amazon came on the scene.

Amazon was able to sell products cheaply long enough to kill a lot of competition.

This has always happened throughout history. The same companies crying now had no issue doing it to local retailers in the past by using their vast resources with wholesalers.

I don't see how we are better off, honestly.
Buying products you haven't previously bought can be error prone. And when things go wrong you have to ship it back. You no longer get the touch products before buying them. You have to rely on reviews that sound like advertisements for the product.
Honestly, we end up buying things and returning them over and over. My mother bought me workout clothes. It's the right size only when I put it on it's too large. Had to send it back and order another one. It's a hassle.

Maybe you have that issue come up a lot but I don't and obviously neither do a lot of people since they like using the service.

 

[OceanBlue]

All Humans are doing now is finding ways to be lazy and less productive while making as much money as they can with the least amount of effort. It's completely contradictory to evolution and progress.

This is the best part of technology and why I love working in it so much. Having the opportunity to create things that do tasks better and faster than people to spare people needless effort is the greatest.

Maybe you have that issue come up a lot but I don't and obviously neither do a lot of people since they like using the service.

I think we only have to look at the state of malls as an informal referendum on whether people prefer going to stores or shopping online.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

I spend a ton at Amazon, even when I do the research for various other options. I recently purchased a new monitor (Asus 27" G-SYNC). Both Best Buy and Amazon had it for the same price, both had financing for it that was interest free for a period of time I could manage in my personal budget. The difference? Amazon could get it to me in two days, and Best Buy would take at least two weeks.

Made the choice easy: Amazon.

Even then, outside of a big purchase like that, my wife and I recently went to Petsmart to pick up dog food. We were leaving our dogs in a kennel while we were on vacation and wanted to pick up some dry and some of those little packets of liver pate or what have you, to mix in with the dry dog food. So we had to buy like twenty of those packets. The cost at Petsmart was enough to give us pause, so we looked on Amazon and found we could get the same # of packets for significantly less cost. So we checked on the dog food we normally buy, and ... same thing. Big ass bag of dog food for like $10 less than going to Petsmart and hauling it home ourselves. And in fact, if we sign up for a subscription of that dog food, we would save an additional 10 or 15% (can't remember the detail).

Made the choice easy: Amazon.

Hell, if I can get my grocery order done there and delivered fresh to my home instead of going to the store and blowing an hour every week, I'll do that too.

 

[Ovid]

We need to make space-born stuff more valuable so the economic shift is toward space exploration.

Major space exploration will not happen until ALL countries (people) come together to make it happen.

All Humans are doing now is finding ways to be lazy and less productive while making as much money as they can with the least amount of effort. It's completely contradictory to evolution and progress.

This is a very negative way at looking at things.

 

[otake]

Because businesses that ran in one state were never obliged to collect sales tax for another state. That was in place way before Amazon came on the scene.

This has always happened throughout history. The same companies crying now had no issue doing it to local retailers in the past by using their vast resources with wholesalers.

Maybe you have that issue come up a lot but I don't and obviously neither do a lot of people since they like using the service.

Obviously local governments were slow to adapt to changing economies.

The issue used to come up a lot when I bought through Amazon but now I hardly ever buy there. I'll use a specific example.

I need a garage door remote opener. I can order it through Amazon and wait two days, or I can go to walmart today and buy it. The price difference is a couple of cents.
It will often be cheaper to buy it at the store and while I'm there, I can buy some groceries.

I've been using amazon less and less without realizing it. The only thing we consistently buy there is diapers.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

I think they're at the point already tbh.

yep, lots of people don't understand why companies like amazon are monopolies and why they need to be broken up. I've basically stopped purchasing from amazon, and use them as a catalog and contact sellers directly/there own sites to purchase what I want.


Sherman anti trust act needs teeth and needs a modernization with a goalpost of 60 + years in the future.

imagine if amazon said they needed a bailout or every company they owned was going to close? the damage that would do the the american economy would bescially strong arm the government into the bail out. we can't let the bank bailout happen again, to big to fail is to big to exist, split up everything thats "to big to fail" and also a monopoly.

 

[slit]

Obviously local governments were slow to adapt to changing economies.

The issue used to come up a lot when I bought through Amazon but now I hardly ever buy there. I'll use a specific example.

I need a garage door remote opener. I can order it through Amazon and wait two days, or I can go to walmart today and buy it. The price difference is a couple of cents.
It will often be cheaper to buy it at the store and while I'm there, I can buy some groceries.

I've been using amazon less and less without realizing it. The only thing we consistently buy there is diapers.

Well that's great for you but I don't know what that has to do with anything. You think there is any difference in supporting Walmart as opposed to Amazon? Walmart is beefing up their online strategy tenfold and using their massive distribution channels to make that happen . They know what is inevitable.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Anything that accelerates the inevitable death of capitalism, America and the idea that human labor has any value is good in my eyes.

You think human labor has no value? Weird, that's what the 1% think too.

 

[otake]

Well that's great for you but I don't know what that has to do with anything. You think there is any difference in supporting Walmart as opposed to Amazon? Walmart is beefing up their online strategy tenfold and using their massive distribution channels to make that happen . They know what is inevitable.

I don't care about who sells me things. I care about the costs and convenience to me.

I am making the argument that I find the benefits of Amazon as a store to be less compelling now as opposed to years ago when they didn't charge sales tax.

I find going to walmart or target sometimes more convenient because they are both cheaper and have groceries I need to buy anyway.

I have 0 loyalty to retail stores, online or brick and mortar. I do thank Amazon for making Target and Walmart compete.

 

[water_wendi]

This really should be in the OP.

Yeah you are right. Added to OP.

What do people against Amazon want here? Those mom and pop stores in every town will never come back. If Amazon didn't exist another giant corporation would take its place, most likely Walmart.

The report addresses this.

• Policymakers should restore the broader range of goals that guided antitrust enforcement for much of the 20th century, and use these policies to divide Amazon into separate firms, prevent it from using its financial resources to capsize smaller competitors, and ensure fair and open competition on its platform. (Pages 68-69)

• Officials should update both state and federal labor laws to protect workers’ rights in the digital economy, including establishing stronger protections for temporary workers and blocking companies from classifying workers as independent ontractors as a way of evading wage and hour standards. (Pages 69-70)

• Local and state governments should stop providing Amazon with subsidies and tax breaks, and revise their planning and economic development policies to reflect the fiscal and community benefits of local, independent businesses. (Pages 70-71)

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yeah you are right. Added to OP.



The report addresses this.

• Policymakers should restore the broader range of goals that guided antitrust enforcement for much of the 20th century, and use these policies to divide Amazon into separate firms, prevent it from using its financial resources to capsize smaller competitors, and ensure fair and open competition on its platform. (Pages 68-69)

• Officials should update both state and federal labor laws to protect workers’ rights in the digital economy, including establishing stronger protections for temporary workers and blocking companies from classifying workers as independent ontractors as a way of evading wage and hour standards. (Pages 69-70)

• Local and state governments should stop providing Amazon with subsidies and tax breaks, and revise their planning and economic development policies to reflect the fiscal and community benefits of local, independent businesses. (Pages 70-71)

I love these solutions

Sustainable local economies should be paramount going forward

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Well that's great for you but I don't know what that has to do with anything. You think there is any difference in supporting Walmart as opposed to Amazon? Walmart is beefing up their online strategy tenfold and using their massive distribution channels to make that happen . They know what is inevitable.

I think a duopoly is still better than a monopoly, and by extension it's important to have multiple online retailers.

 

[slit]

I don't care about who sells me things. I care about the costs and convenience to me.

I am making the argument that I find the benefits of Amazon as a store to be less compelling now as opposed to years ago when they didn't charge sales tax.

I find going to walmart or target sometimes more convenient because they are both cheaper and have groceries I need to buy anyway.

I have 0 loyalty to retail stores, online or brick and mortar. I do thank Amazon for making Target and Walmart compete.

Fine but I'm saying my experience is the exact opposite. I don't have to worry about the hassle of wandering through the wall of stinky, loud people inside Walmart. I don't worry about whether or not they have what I'm looking for and the price is very comparable to boot. You asked why people think they are better off using Amazon or another online retailer, those are two of the major reasons why.

I think a duopoly is still better than a monopoly, and by extension it's important to have multiple online retailers.

That's something I definitely agree with.

 

[Wereroku]

I don't care about who sells me things. I care about the costs and convenience to me.

I am making the argument that I find the benefits of Amazon as a store to be less compelling now as opposed to years ago when they didn't charge sales tax.

I find going to walmart or target sometimes more convenient because they are both cheaper and have groceries I need to buy anyway.

I have 0 loyalty to retail stores, online or brick and mortar. I do thank Amazon for making Target and Walmart compete.

I mean legally even when they were charging sales tax you were supposed to be self reporting it on your taxes at the end of the year. Also Amazon killing local retailers would be the case even if they had collected taxes because not having to pay rent and expenses on a storefront offers massive saving.

 

[wutwutwut]

Hmm, I wonder what biases the Institute for Local Self-Reliance has.

The sales tax thing is the only solid point.

 

[Giant Panda]

I love these solutions

Sustainable local economies should be paramount going forward

Requiring things to be local is inefficient and the opposite of sustainable. Most industries have very powerful economies of scale.

 

[ianpm31]

I buy all of my new games and big tech from BestBuy with GCU and I buy almost everything else from Amazon.

Baby food
Miscellaneous tech
Movies and TV discs
Clothes
Books
Game accessories
Hardware
Lawn care stuff
Etc

Why should I go out to half a dozen stores to buy all that when I can have it delivered to my door in two days. If Amazon had grocery delivery where I live I'd use that and if they could deliver gasoline I'd stop going to gas stations.

Costco beats amazon when it comes to prices and of course on gas. That's one company that seems immune to Amazon. They continue to beat expectations every qtr

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Costco beats amazon when it comes to prices and of course on gas. That's one company that seems immune to Amazon. They continue to beat expectations every qtr

The nearest Costco is over an hour away from where I live.

 

[OceanBlue]

I don't have time to read the whole report, but I don't think that trust-busting Amazon will help local businesses all that much. Why wouldn't people just shop somewhere else online?

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

The Free 2-Day Shipping with Prime is a ridiculous value. I don't use Amazon much because its typically $4+ just for shipping.

 

[YuriLowell]

I don't have time to read the whole report, but I don't think that trust-busting Amazon will help local businesses all that much. Why wouldn't people just shop somewhere else online?

Yes.
I hate driving out to the store and fighting people to get what I want.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Costco beats amazon when it comes to prices and of course on gas. That's one company that seems immune to Amazon. They continue to beat expectations every qtr

The nearest Costco is over an hour away from where I live.

We go to BJs for bulk buying about once/month. Pretty much all our meat we buy there, then bring home and split up using one of those vacuum thingies before popping it into the freezer.

They just opened a Costco that's about equidistant (15 minutes), so we're gonna check them out when our BJ's sub ends to compare.

Groceries in general continues to be a space where we do the footwork locally vs. online ordering. I haven't even checked into Amazon to know what they offer locally in this space. I imagine the Whole Foods purchase, provided it goes through, will change that.

 

[Ovid]

Requiring things to be local is inefficient and the opposite of sustainable. Most industries have very powerful economies of scale.

With regards to corporations that's what the authors are worried about.

But you're right, if markets are competitive, corporations make things more efficient.

 

[psyfi]

I'm seriously worried about the impact Amazon is having on our economy. We need to make our economies local, self-sufficient, and sustainable -- everything that Amazon is not.

 

[QuantumZebra]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

This.

I'm a progressive with libertarian ideals... and if Amazon didn't do it, someone much shittier (wal-mart, paging wal-mart) would.

I'm seriously worried about the impact Amazon is having on our economy. We need to make our economies local, self-sufficient, and sustainable -- everything that Amazon is not.

I may be the minority, but the fact that I save so much and can buy the regular household shit (paper towels, detergent, etc...) from Amazon frees me up to buy locally-sourced stuff from mom and pop shops... coffee, honey (especially), meats from a butcher, etc.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'm seriously worried about the impact Amazon is having on our economy. We need to make our economies local, self-sufficient, and sustainable -- everything that Amazon is not.

We need to start phasing out the idea of economies all together.

 

[Sunster]

in a system where companies are expected to grow endlessly this is what happens.

 

[water_wendi]

I don't have time to read the whole report, but I don't think that trust-busting Amazon will help local businesses all that much. Why wouldn't people just shop somewhere else online?

Amazon has shown that they will operate at a loss to stifle competition (sometimes so that they can buy the competition). Keep in mind that they do this while taking government subsidies.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Amazon has shown that they will operate at a loss to stifle competition (sometimes so that they can buy the competition). Keep in mind that they do this while taking government subsidies.

The government should eventually nationalize Amazon.


We are rapidly approaching another Critical Period on our history. One where our society will either collapse in on itself in violence and destitution or we adapt to the reality of a world where labor has no value, resources aren't scarce, and money no longer needs to exist.

 

[Jkmetal]

I don't shop at amazon anymore and haven't for a few years because of this.

My siblings and most of my friends all have primes, half have echos, heck even my parents have an echo. My baby nephew gives us the "alexia is here too??" look when he visits.

Scary shit. People are starting to stay these things, google it, put it on ebay, just order it from amazon. Brainwashing.

I usually buy things in person, whenever I can, hell even if I just do in store pick from walmart or something. Got a microcenter nearby so that I use that instead of amazon.

 

[kirblar]

I'm seriously worried about the impact Amazon is having on our economy. We need to make our economies local, self-sufficient, and sustainable -- everything that Amazon is not.

We do not want to make everything produced locally! It's a massively inefficient waste of people's time and resources to have an exponentially larger amount of people doing redundant tasks for no reason other than to keep people busy.

Economies are based on trade. A sustainable economy is one where people have massive amounts of trading partners. It's why cities are doing so well while small rural areas are decaying.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

We do not want to make everything produced locally! It's a massively inefficient waste of people's time and resources to have an exponentially larger amount of people doing redundant tasks for no reason other than to keep people busy.

Economies are based on trade. A sustainable economy is one where people have massive amounts of trading partners. It's why cities are doing so well while small rural areas are decaying.

Honestly, outside of craft farming (wineries, honey, that kind of thing) the rural areas need to be abandoned to automated food production and wildlife restoration. We need to build massive, cheap, quality housing in cities and encourage mass migration away from the countryside.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That household figure is shocking to me.

 

[CadetMahoney]

It's gonna be a Chinese company that makes high quality counterfeit products for a fraction of the cost and delivers them right to your door via a drone army, evading import fees and local shipping fees.

I for one welcome our new lower-price overlords.

 

[OceanBlue]

Amazon has shown that they will operate at a loss to stifle competition (sometimes so that they can buy the competition). Keep in mind that they do this while taking government subsidies.

Is this competition local or is it other online services? There are definitely cases where Amazon has operated at a loss to enter a business area like it probably will to compete with Blue Apron. It's not like companies having divisions operating at a loss something unique to Amazon either. It's something small businesses can't afford, sure, but it's not unique to online retail.

What kind of subsidies are you referring to? Are you saying it's an issue that Amazon gets government subsidies? I can possibly see why that might be true but as someone who isn't too knowledgeable about this, I'm not sure what makes the subsidies Amazon gets worse than the ones a company like Walmart would get.

I do think that government should deal with how outdated their policies are for dealing with companies that don't have to worry about locality, but I think that businesses that don't have to worry about their niche existing in their area is a good thing. This is not as much about Amazon as much as it is about online vs local retail in general.

 

[B4s5C]

This is just highlighting more and more the need for an anti-consumption movement in our society. We need to learn to be happy with what we have and not continue buying into the marketing that promotes behavior of needless purchasing.

 

[kirblar]

Is this competition local or is it other online services? There are definitely cases where Amazon has operated at a loss to enter a business area like it probably will to compete with Blue Apron.

What kind of subsidies are you referring to? Are you saying it's an issue that Amazon gets government subsidies? I can possibly see why that might be true but as someone who isn't too knowledgeable about this, I'm not sure what makes the subsidies Amazon gets worse than the ones a company like Walmart would get.

I do think that government should deal with how outdated their policies are for dealing with companies that don't have to worry about locality, but I think that businesses that don't have to worry about their niche existing in their area is a good thing. This is not as much about Amazon as much as it is about online vs local retail in general.

Literally any business gets some form of subsidy via public services just like any person does. It's a phrase you can throw out that sounds bad but doesn't mean anything unless you bring specific receipts.

 

[Geist-]

But in 16 states, including ones with sizeable populations, like Missouri, Amazon continues to operate sales tax free. The research firm Civic Economics estimates that Amazon’s uncollected state and local sales taxes totaled more than $704 million in 2015. (313) That year, Amazon reported profits of just $596 million.

I live in Missouri and I pay sales tax when I buy from Amazon...

 

[Ovid]

The prices are just too good and the shipping is just too convenient. Ain't no reason to go to a regular store anymore

For now, I don't have a problem with Amazon. Like you said, the prices are great and it's extremely convenient. They also have great customer service.

Back in 2009 they contact me about a Lightning Deal that I couldn't purchase out of my cart because it was sold out in seconds. They actually contacted directly a few hours later and said that if I was still interested they would offer me the Lightning Deal price when more became available. Of course I accepted their offer.

They didn't have to do that. I've been a loyal customer ever since.

This is just highlighting more and more the need for an anti-consumption movement in our society. We need to learn to be happy with what we have and not continue buying into the marketing that promotes behavior of needless purchasing.

The American economy is all about consumption.

 

[YuriLowell]

Honestly, outside of craft farming (wineries, honey, that kind of thing) the rural areas need to be abandoned to automated food production and wildlife restoration. We need to build massive, cheap, quality housing in cities and encourage mass migration away from the countryside.

This sounds awful.
I don't want to live in a cheap box with a million other people.