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The Official Headphone Thread 2.5: We're Making WAVs and Catching FLAC

LQX

LQX

Member
Heel said:
Can anyone give a little info on how an amp's specs equate to whether or not they can drive particular headphones? Did some reading, but still confused.

Picked up this little DAC/amp/bluetooth unit on the cheap from SlickDeals and curious whether or not it could drive the Sennheiser HD6XX sufficiently. Aware from some reading that these particular headphones are "high impedance" and "power hungry" or whatever, but how does one figure it all out? What's the result of not being sufficiently powerful enough, being too quiet?

I'm actually just getting the unit to bluetooth to my television with some non-bluetooth headphones, but wouldn't mind getting some nice headphones to use along with it in other scenarios.


Big Blue Headphone Amplifier



HD6XX



Thanks for any info.
Click to expand...

This is a great guide if you want to understand more about amps...

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html

The HD6XX/50 is a beast. I'm not sure that it is really suited for a headphone as powerful as the HD6XX/50. You need a decent amp to get the best out of it.
 
Chittagong

Chittagong

Gold Member
Bloodember said:
Well, I just upgraded my DAC/AMP to a Schiit Jotunheim. Not sure if I needed it but what the fuck. I have been using a Practical Devices XM6 with the WM8741 DAC and the AD8397 DoubleCat amp. Should have the Schiit by the weekend.
Click to expand...

Give it some time to warm up, Jot can sound quite tinny cold. I didn't believe warm up was even a thing before Jot.
 
M

matmanx1

Member
Heel said:
Can anyone give a little info on how an amp's specs equate to whether or not they can drive particular headphones? Did some reading, but still confused.

Picked up this little DAC/amp/bluetooth unit on the cheap from SlickDeals and curious whether or not it could drive the Sennheiser HD6XX sufficiently. Aware from some reading that these particular headphones are "high impedance" and "power hungry" or whatever, but how does one figure it all out? What's the result of not being sufficiently powerful enough, being too quiet?

I'm actually just getting the unit to bluetooth to my television with some non-bluetooth headphones, but wouldn't mind getting some nice headphones to use along with it in other scenarios.


Big Blue Headphone Amplifier



HD6XX



Thanks for any info.
Click to expand...

The HD6XX is fairly efficient and so should have plenty of volume from that amp. That being said, to really get the most out of the HD6XX you will want either something with more power (like a Schiit Jotunheim) or a higher output impedance (since the impedance of the HD6XX is 300).

The HD6XX is famous for scaling insanely well with better gear so the good news is that you can start with that amp and when you want to upgrade you can be sure that the HD6XX will sound that much better as you improve your gear.
 
E

enfieldvball

Member
Just picked up the Benjie S5 as a cheap DAP since my Cowon i9 won't turn on, anyone have any experiences with the S5? Reviews on Head-Fi say it's a good budget DAP.
 
S

Shotterke

Member
matmanx1 said:
The HD6XX is fairly efficient and so should have plenty of volume from that amp. That being said, to really get the most out of the HD6XX you will want either something with more power (like a Schiit Jotunheim) or a higher output impedance (since the impedance of the HD6XX is 300).

The HD6XX is famous for scaling insanely well with better gear so the good news is that you can start with that amp and when you want to upgrade you can be sure that the HD6XX will sound that much better as you improve your gear.
Click to expand...

How good is the AKG 7XX compared to the HD6XX? Does it scale as well?

I upgraded my 25$ in ears to Audio Technica m50x's but I can't wear them for very long so I'm looking to buy something that's very comfortable and can wear for a few hours so I saw the AKG 7XX headphones and would use it with a schiit stack (Modi 2 + magni 2).
 
H

Heel

Member
LQX said:
This is a great guide if you want to understand more about amps...

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html

The HD6XX/50 is a beast. I'm not sure that it is really suited for a headphone as powerful as the HD6XX/50. You need a decent amp to get the best out of it.
Click to expand...

matmanx1 said:
The HD6XX is fairly efficient and so should have plenty of volume from that amp. That being said, to really get the most out of the HD6XX you will want either something with more power (like a Schiit Jotunheim) or a higher output impedance (since the impedance of the HD6XX is 300).

The HD6XX is famous for scaling insanely well with better gear so the good news is that you can start with that amp and when you want to upgrade you can be sure that the HD6XX will sound that much better as you improve your gear.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, appreciate it.
 
W

wilflare

Member
can't wait for the HD6XX.
but I guess my Audinst HUD-mx1 DAC would need some upgrading (it's 3.5mm output port is spoilt anyway)

what would be a good upgrade? the Schiit Jotunheim?
 
LQX

LQX

Member
I have had my eye on the Schiit Jotunheim for months but the damn power button on the back is what has prevented me from picking it up. It will be an hassle to power it on and off due to where I'm putting it and I do not want to use a power strip to just cut power. Is that even safe? Is there a reason why so many amps have the power button on the back? It's frustrating and its why I have stuck with my O2+ODAC for so long though I have wanted to upgrade it.
 
H

Heel

Member
K.Jack said:
I'd check out this video: How much amp do the Sennheiser HD650 (HD6XX) need?
Click to expand...

Perfect, thanks. This video actually pairs perfectly with what I'm considering.

Looking at a local pickup for the HD6XX + Fiio E10K that have been used a few hours for around $220.

Do you guys think I should go for that pairing, or just try to get the headphones and look for another amp solution? The vid seems kind of iffy on the pairing, but maybe one of you have tried it.
 
Bloodember

Bloodember

Member
LQX said:
I have had my eye on the Schiit Jotunheim for months but the damn power button on the back is what has prevented me from picking it up. It will be an hassle to power it on and off due to where I'm putting it and I do not want to use a power strip to just cut power. Is that even safe? Is there a reason why so many amps have the power button on the back? It's frustrating and its why I have stuck with my O2+ODAC for so long though I have wanted to upgrade it.
Click to expand...
It's because theyre designed to stay on all the time. That's what I heard anyway.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
Heel said:
Perfect, thanks. This video actually pairs perfectly with what I'm considering.

Looking at a local pickup for the HD6XX + Fiio E10K that have been used a few hours for around $220.

Do you guys think I should go for that pairing, or just try to get the headphones and look for another amp solution? The vid seems kind of iffy on the pairing, but maybe one of you have tried it.
Click to expand...

$220 for the HD6XX + Fiio E10K is an amazing price regardless of weather you decide to get another Amp/DAC. And if you decide to sell it you should be able to easily get at-least $40 if not more. I sold one here for about that price in the FS thread. That said, I'm not a fan of Fiio E10K but give it listen before deciding you need more. It might be fine for you until you find a great deal on better Amp/DAC.


Bloodember said:
It's because theyre designed to stay on all the time. That's what I heard anyway.
Click to expand...
So they say and I do that with my O2 sometimes as it gives off no heat, but I had Schiit Asgard 2 and the heat that thing gave off was insane. No way I could or would think to leave it on and I bet the Jotunheim puts out just as much heat.
 
H

Heel

Member
LQX said:
$220 for the HD6XX + Fiio E10K is an amazing price regardless of weather you decide to get another Amp/DAC. And if you decide to sell it you should be able to easily get at-least $40 if not more. I sold one here for about that price in the FS thread. That said, I'm not a fan of Fiio E10K but give it listen before deciding you need more. It might be fine for you until you find a great deal on better Amp/DAC.
Click to expand...

Makes sense, guess I'll try picking up both and work from there. Never spent more than $30 on earbuds so I assume I'm in for a treat...haha.
 
Bloodember

Bloodember

Member
LQX said:
So they say and I do that with my O2 sometimes as it gives off no heat, but I had Schiit Asgard 2 and the heat that thing gave off was insane. No way I could or would think to leave it on and I bet the Jotunheim puts out just as much heat.
Click to expand...
True, I don't leave my xm6 on either, if I use it I'll keep it on till I go to bed. I'll do the same when my jot gets here.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
Heel said:
Makes sense, guess I'll try picking up both and work from there. Never spent more than $30 on earbuds so I assume I'm in for a treat...haha.
Click to expand...

They are truly amazing headphones, especially at that price. When I bought them years ago after floundering around buying Logitech gaming headsets and other wired headphones that lasted a year or two I was not at all impressed. I kicked myself for wasting over $300 and quickly sold them off to try and recoup my money. Later I fell into a cheap but great amp from Fiio and was amazed at what it did for my other headphones. Bought back the HD650 to give it another shot being that I had a better Amp/DAC and was blown away. Upgraded from that amp to an even better amp from Schiit and was blown away again. I really did not expect such a profound difference. So yeah, a decent amp for these things absolutely matters. I see many jumping on the Massdrop deal and not considering a proper amp for them thus I think they will think what a waste like I did years ago but even the Fiio E10K will likley make a huge difference over just using their motherboard or phone output.

Give others your feedback once you receive them as I think others are looking at that same paring as the Fiio E10K is very popular.
 
H

Heel

Member
LQX said:
They are truly amazing headphones, especially at that price. When I bought them years ago after floundering around buying Logitech gaming headsets and other wired headphones that lasted a year or two I was not at all impressed. I kicked myself for wasting over $300 and quickly sold them off to try and recoup my money. Later I fell into a cheap but great amp from Fiio and was amazed at what it did for my other headphones. Bought back the HD650 to give it another shot being that I had a better Amp/DAC and was blown away. Upgraded from that amp to an even better amp from Schiit and was blown away again. I really did not expect such a profound difference. So yeah, a decent amp for these things absolutely matters. I see many jumping on the Massdrop deal and not considering a proper amp for them thus I think they will think what a waste like I did years ago but even the Fiio E10K will likley make a huge difference over just using their motherboard or phone output.

Give others your feedback once you receive them as I think others are looking at that same paring as the Fiio E10K is very popular.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Yeah, saw some of the Schiit stuff, but $200+ is already well into the unknown for me as it is, hah. I'll see how I like it and work from there. Still unsure about how I'll like open backs as well, but I guess I'll find out.

I saw you're selling the HD650s and a Massdrop amp in B/S/T. I assume you've upgraded?
 
A

andylsun

Member
Bloodember said:
How's it sound ft from original? Also where did you get the files to print them?
Click to expand...

The files are all on head-fi. Google for Open Alpha Dogs. Mr Speakers posted them for the community.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/open-alpha-t50-3d-printed-headphone-project-from-mrspeakers.825868/

The sound stage is much wider than the originals, it's much less in your head and that works well. The pads improve the fit a lot, the drivers don't touch my ears. It's recognizable as T50RP based but better. They don't sound like most closed cans which is either great, or means I didn't seal them properly. There is attenuation of outside noise.

I lent them to a friend this afternoon and he's now going shopping for a 3d printer. He has a pono player and is borrowing them for a few days to try in balanced mode. I'll get them back on Friday.

Going to work on the seal this weekend, try to improve the cup to baffle, and also fix a niggle with the mount to the headband. Once that's all sorted will start looking at tuning in earnest.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
Heel said:
Interesting. Yeah, saw some of the Schiit stuff, but $200+ is already well into the unknown for me as it is, hah. I'll see how I like it and work from there. Still unsure about how I'll like open backs as well, but I guess I'll find out.

I saw you're selling the HD650s and a Massdrop amp in B/S/T. I assume you've upgraded?
Click to expand...

Don't think I will ever actually "upgrade" from my HD650, but rather what other headphones can I buy to compliment my HD650's which will always have a place on my shelf. I have bought many that are supposedly better and I still end up preferring the HD650 but selling those strictly for aesthetic reasons as I prefer the Massdrop color variant. Also, not actually upgrading from the O2 but somewhat downgrading to my motherboard for bit as I'm looking to build a tube amp.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
Another Massdrop collaboration is incoming.

Massdrop x HIFIMAN HE4XX Planar Magnetic Headphones

Planar Magnetics Like You’ve Never Seen Before

Many headphone companies have tried their hand at planar magnetic drivers, but none have done it quite like HIFIMAN. The result of founder Dr. Fang’s PhD research at Columbia University, its driver technology has landed the company in TIME, Forbes, and CNET’s “The Audiophiliac,” and won it the CES Editors’ Choice Award. Now, that tech is available at an unheard-of price in the Massdrop x HIFIMAN HE4XX: a pair of high-efficiency, open-back planar magnetics that don’t need a fancy amp to sound amazing. Listen to them directly from your smartphone, laptop, or desktop computer, or add a headphone amp to take them to the next level. The sound is smooth, engaging, and even across the frequency range, with airy, sparkly highs and the planar bass slam that HIFIMAN is known for.

Note: The Massdrop x HIFIMAN HE4XX Planar Magnetic Headphones will be available starting August 3 at 6 a.m. PT for $169.99. The first 500 purchasers are guaranteed a serial number under 550.
Click to expand...

cQXOTtW.png


https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-he4xx-planar-magnetic-headphones??mode=guest_open
 
K

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Not interested unless that's based off of the HE-400.

Please be?

dagZ said:
hey gaf,

I just bought the massdrop HD6xx, and wanted a good entry level amp stack so I can get the most out of them.. I don't know much about this stuff so I figured i'd ask..

I've read about these:

http://www.schiit.com/products/vali-2
http://www.schiit.com/products/modi-2

being good to start off with? Anyone else recommend stuff.
Click to expand...

You should look at the posts right above the one you made, there was a lot of 6XX discussion going on today.
 
W

wilflare

Member
I just ordered the HD6XX (just got charged for it) :O
now this HE-4XX :O

kinda miffed about the multibit DAC (lack of) on the Schiit Jotunheim
- would them to support output to speakers too
 
M

matmanx1

Member
LQX said:
$220 for the HD6XX + Fiio E10K is an amazing price regardless of weather you decide to get another Amp/DAC. And if you decide to sell it you should be able to easily get at-least $40 if not more. I sold one here for about that price in the FS thread. That said, I'm not a fan of Fiio E10K but give it listen before deciding you need more. It might be fine for you until you find a great deal on better Amp/DAC.



So they say and I do that with my O2 sometimes as it gives off no heat, but I had Schiit Asgard 2 and the heat that thing gave off was insane. No way I could or would think to leave it on and I bet the Jotunheim puts out just as much heat.
Click to expand...

The Jotunheim barely gets warm. I leave mine on 24/7 with no ill effects. It's a completely different amp topology from the Asgard series and runs nothing like it.

In the world of audio equipment most circuits sound "better" when they are at normal operating temperature and there is actual science to back up why that is. Multibit / Non Oversamping DAC's are known for sounding bad when cold, tubes sound better when warmed and even solid state amps (like the Jotunheim) benefit from being warmed up. Basically what I am saying is, the Jot is a great amp and you will have no issues leaving it on all the time.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdr...de=guest_open&referer=N2E4A6&utm_medium=email

I saw someone beat me to it but yeah, new Massdrop collaboration on the Hifiman Planar magnetic headphones. I am pretty sure that these are based off of either the 400i or 400s but would like to get some verification. At $169.99 and including the Focus A pads they are a steal either way. I am a big fan of the 400S with the Focus A pads and grille mod.
 
J

Jabronium

Member
Been considering getting a pair of planars to see how they stack up. Was thinking of the M1060, or saving a little more cash and jumping straight to ZMF Ori's or LCD-2's. Anyone have impressions or feedback on how these might compare?
 
L

LogicStep

Member
Has anyone here replaced the AD900X ear pads? I ordered the MT50 ear pads after reading they can be made to fit but I'm not sure I'm liking these, will probably return them. The stock pads are a little too shallow so the drivers rest on my ears a little which is uncomfortable.
 
X

X-Frame

Member
Massdrop has the Chord Mojo at $469 now or $449 with 5 purchases.

I'm tempted. I have the Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Modi 2 Uber stack for home and Dragonfly Red, but I am interested in the warmer signature of the Mojo to go with my LZ A4's and my HE-400i's.
 
D

dagZ

Member
K.Jack said:
Not interested unless that's based off of the HE-400.

Please be?



You should look at the posts right above the one you made, there was a lot of 6XX discussion going on today.
Click to expand...

I was talking in another thread, and they just recommended that I just get a magni2? I'm completely new to this so, What is a ELI5 of what each of these 3 things do?
 
LQX

LQX

Member
dagZ said:
I was talking in another thread, and they just recommended that I just get a magni2? I'm completely new to this so, What is a ELI5 of what each of these 3 things do?
Click to expand...

You cant go wrong with the Magni 2. It is a great amp. Do you have DAC already or a recent decent motherboard? If not, also consider the Modi 2 DAC to pair with it.


If you want an all in one unit keep an eye on the ARC which releases later this month. It should be comparable to the Modi/Magi and O2/ODAC. It might even be better. Have to wait on some user reviews.
 
B

Barrett2

Member
Any recommendations for what would be a 'highly-breathable' open-back set that allows for max airflow / comfort in the $200-400 range? Thanks.
 
A

andylsun

Member
Sigh, time for a reprint!

Cura 2.7 beta came out today with an amazing new feature called ironing (aka neosanding). It runs the hot nozzle over the top layer without extruding and uses the heat to smooth it.

Perfect for the driver baffle. This is straight PLA and it's smooth to the touch. Will help with both driver seating and the baffle/cup join.

The person who came up with this technique has it working for curved surfaces as well so it may be able to smooth the cups soon.

https://ultimaker.com/en/community/22649-neosanding-automatic-layer-sanding

UFxVsbYl.jpg
 
Bloodember

Bloodember

Member
andylsun said:
Sigh, time for a reprint!

Cura 2.7 beta came out today with an amazing new feature called ironing (aka neosanding). It runs the hot nozzle over the top layer without extruding and uses the heat to smooth it.

Perfect for the driver baffle. This is straight PLA and it's smooth to the touch. Will help with both driver seating and the baffle/cup join.

The person who came up with this technique has it working for curved surfaces as well so it may be able to smooth the cups soon.

UFxVsbYl.jpg
Click to expand...
Nice, I had to roll back from cura 2.6 as it messed up my printing. Hopefully they fixed my issue with this release as well. I'll probably wait for the full release though.
 
M

matmanx1

Member
Emu Teak's came in last night. They sound similar to what I remember from when I owned the TH-X00 except a bit more open and airy. They are also very light on the head, which is appreciated.

The stock pads are the same as the other Fostex and are not that comfortable to me. Luckily I snagged the Massdrop Dekoni pads for Fostex variants and the ones I chose were the Ultimate Hybrid pads. They are fantastic and a huge upgrade in comfort over the stock pad. They have leather surrounds, velour where it touches your face and fenestrated leather interiors. With the Dekoni pads the Emu Teaks are nearly as comfortable as my HE-400S with the Focus A pads and that is high praise indeed.

I had forgotten just how much bass these Fostex variant models have. On EDM or dubstep or certain modern pop sounds they can really shake your skull with how strongly they "hit". They are far more "U" shaped in response than the ZMF Eikon but they also far outdo the Eikon in thump, which is what I wanted out of them.

I haven't done any A/B testing with the Eikon (and actually, an A/B/C test with my Emu Purplehearts would also be interesting, being based on the Creative Aurvana Live driver) but I would go so far as to say that these might be the best headphones money can buy for EDM and dubstep or any music type where strong, thumping bass is desired. More to come later.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
So I have to travel this weekend, and I don't want to take a portable amp and ipod so I'm just rolling with my iphone 6s. I still want to listen to something on the plane to pass the time. I have 598cs and M50x's. Which of these would be driven better by an iphone 6s?

Thanks!
 
O

opticalmace

Member
Has anyone upgraded their amp and/or DAC and regretted it or barely noticed a difference?

I've been considering replacing my Headroom Micro Amp/DAC for a few years now but never actually pull the trigger. ~_~
 
Lashley

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
Just got a pair of HyperX Cloud 2's today after usually going with cheaper headphones and gaming headsets (Like budget Turtle beaches)

These are absolutely amazing.
 
O

opticalmace

Member
Lashley said:
Just got a pair of HyperX Cloud 2's today after usually going with cheaper headphones and gaming headsets (Like budget Turtle beaches)

These are absolutely amazing.
Click to expand...

I found them a little uncomfortable personally. I wonder if they break in though... or maybe I should just give them another shot, adjust them some more etc.
 
Lashley

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
opticalmace said:
I found them a little uncomfortable personally. I wonder if they break in though... or maybe I should just give them another shot, adjust them some more etc.
Click to expand...

I find them super comfortable, I love the interchangeable ear pads too
 
H

Heel

Member
LQX said:
You got a great deal dude. Congrats!
Click to expand...

sixteen-bit said:
And no 6 month wait, imagine.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Craigslist find! Really nice guy. He said he eventually upgraded to a Schitt DAC/amp, and sold these to pay for HD800s I believe he said.

I was worried about spending so much for the first time and whether or not I'd notice or appreciate the difference, but I'm more and more impressed as I use them. Hearing things I've never heard before in my music, checking out EQ profiles which I'd never really considered or appreciated as a listener, etc.

And yeah, I can see someone who is getting in on the HD6XX drop and spending decent money on headphones for the first time would be disappointed if they didn't get an amp and just tried to play them straight up off their phone. I mean, they work, but it would definitely feel like a "...I spent $200 for this?" experience, IMO.

LQX, would you say it's a similar kind of experience going from a Fiio (E10K?) to the Schitt stuff? I mean, I feel like it gets plenty loud enough for my tastes even on low gain on the E10K, but maybe you feel there's a difference in the quality of sound even at the same volume between the two. Sounds like you were impressed, but curious how.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
Heel said:
Yeah, Craigslist find! Really nice guy. He said he eventually upgraded to a Schitt DAC/amp, and sold these to pay for HD800s I believe he said.

I was worried about spending so much for the first time and whether or not I'd notice or appreciate the difference, but I'm more and more impressed as I use them. Hearing things I've never heard before in my music, checking out EQ profiles which I'd never really considered or appreciated as a listener, etc.

And yeah, I can see someone who is getting in on the HD6XX drop and spending decent money on headphones for the first time would be disappointed if they didn't get an amp and just tried to play them straight up off their phone. I mean, they work, but it would definitely feel like a "...I spent $200 for this?" experience, IMO.

LQX, would you say it's a similar kind of experience going from a Fiio (E10K?) to the Schitt stuff? I mean, I feel like it gets plenty loud enough for my tastes even on low gain on the E10K, but maybe you feel there's a difference in the quality of sound even at the same volume between the two. Sounds like you were impressed, but curious how.
Click to expand...

I'm not LQX but I can answer because I went down this path. I had a Fiio desk amp that had a portable that would slot into it that I used with the 650s for a while. Then I stumbled upon Schiit and got the Magni Modi uber stack and was shocked at how much better the 650s sounded. Everything sounded clearer, audio positioning was better, etc. I wanted to upgrade again later on down the line and got a killer deal on a Valhalla 2 tube amp, a multi-bit bifrost and an HD800S. I still use the HD650s now though, and have my Magni and Modi hooked up to my ps4.

The HD650s really are probably the best sub 1000 dollar headphone I've ever used. The really are fucking amazing. Enjoy your purchase. 220 is a fucking STEAL.
 
chekhonte

chekhonte

Member
opticalmace said:
Has anyone upgraded their amp and/or DAC and regretted it or barely noticed a difference?

I've been considering replacing my Headroom Micro Amp/DAC for a few years now but never actually pull the trigger. ~_~
Click to expand...

I have never been able to tell the difference between class a amps. I have never been able to A B between multiple amps and I have never seen anyone do it reliably more than once. I wouldn't do it. I suckered myself last year with a schiit DAC and amp to power a new pair of planar headphones. Wasn't worth it.
 
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