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Why is there no major movement to legalize Prostitution?
- Thread starter Emperor_Uriel
- Start date
Not really when you consider the need for privacy of providers and consumers.
King Tubby
Member
People who support it can easily be smeared as perverts/sluts/misogynists by people all across the political spectrum.
It's associated with a lot of other crime and abuse towards women that would require a lot of regulation to manage, and while that would probably be cheaper than the costs of prohibition, prohibition's costs are largely invisible, versus having a big old item in the state budget for the Department of Sex Work Management.
Plus, neither the people who want to employ the services of sex workers not the people who want to be sex workers are terribly sympathetic audiences in the eyes of the American electorate. It's hard to find the people to go star in the commercial to talk about how decriminalization would benefit them like you had with gay couples in the gay marriage fight or medical patients for marijuana.
And then LGBT rights and marijuana legalization use up a lot of the oxygen for social libertarian politics. It's hard to argue that sex work warrants focus over those issues, and the public has limited bandwidth for these things.
Plus, neither the people who want to employ the services of sex workers not the people who want to be sex workers are terribly sympathetic audiences in the eyes of the American electorate. It's hard to find the people to go star in the commercial to talk about how decriminalization would benefit them like you had with gay couples in the gay marriage fight or medical patients for marijuana.
And then LGBT rights and marijuana legalization use up a lot of the oxygen for social libertarian politics. It's hard to argue that sex work warrants focus over those issues, and the public has limited bandwidth for these things.
matthewwhatever
Member
Don't lump Canada in with the U.S. Our Supreme Court ruled in 2013 that prostitution laws were unconstitutional, and even though our then-Conservative government tried getting around the issue with a new law that allowed sex to be sold but not bought, sex worker advocates have been promising to fight the new law too. I don't think the change will be happening before 2020, but if Canada's prostitution laws haven't changed significantly within the decade, I'd be surprised.
Looked this game up, apparently it has been returned to Steam but with black censor bars. Also the "storyline" described below has been altered.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
To me, the issue of prostitution is like the issue of abortion. It's about protecting women.
Nobody goes out and wants to be a prostitute or have a bunch of abortions for the fun of it. It's not a fun experience, but it's going to happen, legally or illegally.
Why? Because we're animals, and highly primal. So if keeping it illegal does nothing but harm to the woman who is in this situation because she is desperate, not because you thought it was a nice alternative to go skiing in Aspen, I really don't see how you can argue for that keeping illegal is a good way.
A previous poster mentioned that it should be illegal because prostitution devalues women. I don't know if that is true.
In Denmark prostitution is important. We have thousands and thousands of people; disabled, handicapped, disfigured, lonely, depressed, and others who are unable to be with someone physical, but who still have a sexuality, and a need for it.
Many people don't think about this at all. Many people don't think about that a person with down syndrome or a person who is paralized in a wheelchair, don't also have sexual urges, and who cannot get any affection.
You can be your ass that human trafficking is important to address, but that is not affected by illegal or legal prostitution. Human slavery is illegal and a crime against humanity. These people do this regardless of its status.
One of the big problems we have is that people who buy sex cannot tell if a person is a sex slave. That might sound weird, but it can be difficult.
Many prostitutes are on the verge of destruction. Many are hopelessly addicted to drugs and/or alcohols, others have mental and psychological problems that make them unable to cope normally.
And so, as a client who buys sex, it can be difficult to see the difference between a woman who is in poor health and a woman who is brought from elsewhere. In Europe we have many legals who are not sex trafficked, but who still doesn't speak the language and who moves between countries for work.
There are also women who get out of it. For some, it's a desperate way to get out- Like porn or stripping. And they manage to do it for a bit, and then find something else.
In my opinion, there should be a noble profession associated with being a intimacy / sex worker. Because I think you'd be surprised just how many people buy intimacy with a prostitute, and not to have sex with her/him. Many people are extremely lonely and it's a massive, massive health concern.
"It's a sin to judge a man by his post" is a term that comes to mind. I don't care about prudes devaluing women. Fuck what other people think. Don't make this harder for them than it already is. When you don't have other options, and you're desperate and you cannot get help, you don't want the only thing you got taken away from you.
And that's exactly how I look at abortion as well. What someone personally feels about it is not the chief concern here. And making it illegal is not going to stop it. It just means she might have to self mutilate herself with a coat hanger and a pair of scissors at home. Just because you don't hear about it or think about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
It's really not pleasant. It's very sad. But it's all they got. Because we live in a world with millions of people who have fallen underneath society and they cannot get help or get up. It's throwing rocks at them as they are laying in the gutter and judging them and their life choices. We really have to stop being that.
Nobody goes out and wants to be a prostitute or have a bunch of abortions for the fun of it. It's not a fun experience, but it's going to happen, legally or illegally.
Why? Because we're animals, and highly primal. So if keeping it illegal does nothing but harm to the woman who is in this situation because she is desperate, not because you thought it was a nice alternative to go skiing in Aspen, I really don't see how you can argue for that keeping illegal is a good way.
A previous poster mentioned that it should be illegal because prostitution devalues women. I don't know if that is true.
In Denmark prostitution is important. We have thousands and thousands of people; disabled, handicapped, disfigured, lonely, depressed, and others who are unable to be with someone physical, but who still have a sexuality, and a need for it.
Many people don't think about this at all. Many people don't think about that a person with down syndrome or a person who is paralized in a wheelchair, don't also have sexual urges, and who cannot get any affection.
You can be your ass that human trafficking is important to address, but that is not affected by illegal or legal prostitution. Human slavery is illegal and a crime against humanity. These people do this regardless of its status.
One of the big problems we have is that people who buy sex cannot tell if a person is a sex slave. That might sound weird, but it can be difficult.
Many prostitutes are on the verge of destruction. Many are hopelessly addicted to drugs and/or alcohols, others have mental and psychological problems that make them unable to cope normally.
And so, as a client who buys sex, it can be difficult to see the difference between a woman who is in poor health and a woman who is brought from elsewhere. In Europe we have many legals who are not sex trafficked, but who still doesn't speak the language and who moves between countries for work.
There are also women who get out of it. For some, it's a desperate way to get out- Like porn or stripping. And they manage to do it for a bit, and then find something else.
In my opinion, there should be a noble profession associated with being a intimacy / sex worker. Because I think you'd be surprised just how many people buy intimacy with a prostitute, and not to have sex with her/him. Many people are extremely lonely and it's a massive, massive health concern.
"It's a sin to judge a man by his post" is a term that comes to mind. I don't care about prudes devaluing women. Fuck what other people think. Don't make this harder for them than it already is. When you don't have other options, and you're desperate and you cannot get help, you don't want the only thing you got taken away from you.
And that's exactly how I look at abortion as well. What someone personally feels about it is not the chief concern here. And making it illegal is not going to stop it. It just means she might have to self mutilate herself with a coat hanger and a pair of scissors at home. Just because you don't hear about it or think about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
It's really not pleasant. It's very sad. But it's all they got. Because we live in a world with millions of people who have fallen underneath society and they cannot get help or get up. It's throwing rocks at them as they are laying in the gutter and judging them and their life choices. We really have to stop being that.
Why would that be a necessity for such a movement? There are myriad reasons for pushing for legalization that have nothing to with one's desire to make personal use of it, once legal.
All of this is common sense too. It's exploitation and the vast majority of workers would rather to do something else. There isn't a massive health benefit to prostitution like Japan would claim there is (what they consider prostitution is sex, and sex is only vaginally sex to them).
The point is that it shouldn't be how people make a living because it is the young people who and poor/unskilled who are preyed on. And those who are making the most profits won't be the girls.
Well hopefully something comes out of it.
As for my 'North Americans' comment I was talking more about the general public. I too am a Canadian and it's my experience that if anyone voices their support of legal prostitution you either get laughed out of the room or are seen as a creepy pervert.
However I do live in Saskatchewan right in the middle of the conservative stronghold in Canada so the east may be very different. Hell even strip clubs aren't allowed in this province anymore so I can't see a lot of people who would agree with me haha.
I do think that Canada will legalize before the states though, hopefully sooner rather than later
BrassDragon
Member
Citation needed because that's not our experience in the Netherlands. There are some larger profits involved on the real estate side of things (since most realtors won't touch these facilities, it tends to end up with 1 or 2 businesses who can move with little competition) but from tax returns, we know that legal prostitutes as a collective make considerably more than the club owners that facilitate them.
Astral Dog
Member
There is no need, though it would be better for the health of the prostitutes, unfortunately nobody cares about prostitutes, there has to be a veil of a puritan society
Warm Machine
Member
I'm surprised pimps are even a thing anymore. I haven't seen a hooker outside in about 5 years. All any girl needs is a cell phone and a Craigslist ad.
Out of the light and into the shadows
Jezbollah
Member
DiscoJer
Member
People say this, but like drugs, prostitution wasn't really illegal until modern times , the early 20th century. It was part of the whole reform society movement that also brought us alcohol prohibition and eugenics.
JinjoUnchained
Member
The same reason that LGBT is discriminated against. That is, sex is something that can be enjoyed by all classes, so social elites demonize any form of sex that doesn't fall in line with the status quo that they control.
Otherwise, poor people might start enjoying their lives and take agency of their fate. "God doesn't want you to enjoy sex, also, don't complain about your substandard wages and lack of opportunity because all you need is God's love"
Otherwise, poor people might start enjoying their lives and take agency of their fate. "God doesn't want you to enjoy sex, also, don't complain about your substandard wages and lack of opportunity because all you need is God's love"
this is hilarious lmao
They can deny their services to anyone same reason that people who work for themselves are not forced to take on every single bit of work they are asked to do? Not every artist takes every commission they're asked for. Unless they work for a brothel that's in a space open to the public, they're totally free to discriminate against whoever they want.
your post reads like some insane incel shit lmaooo
lightskintwin
Banned
Prostitution shouldn't be legalized, it should be decriminalized.
poppedcollar69
Member
you just described capitalism
the evils of capitalism can be mitigated through legislation, and the same is (probably) true for prostitution
Moral Panic
Member
If you are operating a business then you cannot discriminate based on the person's race doesn't matter if its a one person sole trader or a full commercial enterprise.
If you own an house you can discriminate however you like as to who you let it and who you don't, if you turn that house into a bnb then you lose that right. If you are baking cakes for friends then you have the right to agree or decline as you want but if you set of a cake business then you lose that right.
It isn't hard to understand my point. If prostitution is "just like any other job" then we would have no problem fining people for discrimination. But it clearly isn't. Closing your eyes to that fact just makes you look silly. A person should have a complete and unfettered right to their body and they should be able to discriminate, but these rights do not align with the civil rights we have established for commercial businesses. One of these rights must bend as they are in direct contrast with one another.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
It's not so black and white. There's a lot of exploitation of sex workers, even in countries where it's legal. Don't try to sell it as something 'obvious', it's a sensitive issue, and needs to be dealt with as such.
This seems like a pretty important perspective that not many people noticed? Or am I missing something?
In the United States, that's only true in most states if you engage in interstate commerce. I don't believe that would be the case for most prostitutes if legalized.
Many small business that don't engage in interstate commerce can legally discriminate on the basis of race.
Acerac
Banned
Fairly straightforward when you spell it out like that, and a point I can't really disagree with.
Cheers.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
You can go to the bunny ranch and go to town.
Right. There are actually places in the US where prostitution is legal and regulated, and have been so since forever.
What I would like to see is prostitution legalization and regulation being put on a ballot somewhere. CA or HI was rumored and supposed to do it IIRC. CO opened the marijuana legalization pandora's box. MA did the same for gay marriage. Someone needs to take charge and get this on the ballot.
Seems like it's one of those things that makes so much sense but that the majority of people would only see the benefit once it was legalized or decriminalized (like certain drugs), while a vocal and politically powerful minority refuse to accept facts and would rather treat prostitution as something that can be eradicated through punishment and prayer, much like their position on drug use or even teenage pregnancy. They aren't interested in lesser or safer prostitution, drug use, or teenage pregnancy. Their stance is eradication or nothing and so you get mandatory minimums for drugs, abstinence instead of contraceptives, and prostitution relegated to shady dealings that put women in danger and potentially encourages sex trafficking.
This post touches on many of the issues I have with prostitution. While I strongly believe in protecting sex workers, I am not convinced that the legalization of prostitution would be an overall improvement for women. In a society where women are valued primarily for sex, it's a fine line between purchasing sex and just purchasing women.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If I find a client myself online, fuck, and get paid, how is all that money not going to me? One could join a brothel, but freelancing would also be extremely easy.
lightskintwin
Banned
If anything I think the demand for prostitutes has only gone up due to the ease the internet has been as a middle man.
BrassDragon
Member
Nah, this is a worldwide phenomenon; many people just viscerally dislike the concept of prostitution, on all sides of the political spectrum and they really want to keep using the spectre of human trafficking to polarize the debate.
As someone who has dealt with victims firsthand, I can vouch that human trafficking is horrible in every way... But I would still rather cooperate with a legalized sex industry than chasing these monsters when they're underground and we can't see the forest for the trees because society deems every facet of it criminal. I've also worked with countries that have super repressive laws against prostitution and, from what I can tell, their success rate against trafficking networks is nothing to write home about... Repression sounds good on paper but actually makes our job harder and more labor intensive.
Not that they'd necessarily support it, but I'm 99% certain prostitution would be an easier sell to Christians than abortion. Not sure how not having passed that milestone means anything. (I know for a fact I'd have an easier time convincing my hardcore conservative Christian family to support a candidate for who favored it over one who favored abortion, although I suppose it'd be unusual to find the two opinions separate.) Prostitution doesn't involve murder in their eyes, and the case for regulation in a legalized field to protect prostitutes from trafficking, abuse, and disease would be a more winning one than most of the cases for abortion to them.
Bangkok has basically legal prostitution and I still get propositioned while I'm out walking around with my 2 year.
I'm not super against it in a society where there are enough social safety nets that women aren't doing it in order to keep themselves/family from starving. No one should have to decide between being fucked and starving to death. But I'm not sure that society actually exists anywhere.
Because it's a dangerous profession.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Posting in intelligent thread.
Prostitution is a norm in society and it's bananas to claim that it's some disease that can be removed.
I'm very strongly in favour of legalisation in the UK. Even though folks say prostitution is legal here, the actual legislative system is one of the worst possible arrangements I can think of, in that it makes it legal to buy and sell sex but only privately as an arrangement. Ergo you get all the criminality of those who exploit sex workers, all of the street walking, and absolutely no accountability.
You're usually talking about exceptionally vulnerable people, overwhelmingly women.
"Legalisation" is a big word and a big task. It should be done as a process and a set of phases, but the absolute first thing that needs to be done is for society to stick a hand out to sex workers and get them better conditions. I don't frankly care all that much about what happens between the sheets.
Prostitution is a norm in society and it's bananas to claim that it's some disease that can be removed.
I'm very strongly in favour of legalisation in the UK. Even though folks say prostitution is legal here, the actual legislative system is one of the worst possible arrangements I can think of, in that it makes it legal to buy and sell sex but only privately as an arrangement. Ergo you get all the criminality of those who exploit sex workers, all of the street walking, and absolutely no accountability.
You're usually talking about exceptionally vulnerable people, overwhelmingly women.
"Legalisation" is a big word and a big task. It should be done as a process and a set of phases, but the absolute first thing that needs to be done is for society to stick a hand out to sex workers and get them better conditions. I don't frankly care all that much about what happens between the sheets.
Temeculan3000
Member
Sex is a personal service and forcing someone to do it against their will goes against the Thirteenth Amendment.
The brothel itself would be a place of accommodation and required to serve them under the Civil Rights Act, but an employer could not compel an employee to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to, even if that is their job.
If the brothel was a private club, which required a membership, they would have more leeway in discriminating. But we are assuming a brothel open to the public.
Fully legal and regulated in Australia