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[Simply Sami]

Just seen a gameface with Marcus Beer and Adam Sessler.

Would be nice if they had more guests like that. I know quite a few people don't like Marcus or Adam. But I always enjoyed listening to their views. One of the reasons I signed up to for Siftd.

 

[Novel Mike]

It's getting sadder and sadder to see him argue with people on the site who tell him to drop the office. But no matter what he won't budge on that. The guy is stubborn as I've ever seen. It took him forever to adopt the Patreon model but now it's too little too late.

That I think is the problem I've always had with Shane even back at GT. He was always stubborn and always thought he was right. He and Marcus would get into fight after fight on the IW podcast and even worse is that he would bully the rest of the staff if they dared to have an opinion he disagreed with. He's said so many stupid things over the years and I think he really soured his relationships with a lot of people who were formally at GT because of his attitude.

Even his reviews never made sense, I remember him reviewing Skyward Sword which he absolutely hated and did nothing but complain about everything in the game and still gave it a 9.1 the youtube comments still talk about how the review never made any sense and contradicted itself several times.

I honestly think that the studio is literally just his pride at this point. He wants to be seen as a professional site but its literally screwing him more then anything else and he'll likely lose it all because of those kinds of things. He hasn't really learn anything from his failure yet which is sad because I still think he could turn this around.

 

[Immortal Technique]

Those of you who think this office is bringing the whole thing down - how much do you experts think it costs?

 

[Novel Mike]

Those of you who think this office is bringing the whole thing down - how much do you experts think it costs?

No idea on an exact price but its significant and Shane has stated as much. He's mentioned several times he doesn't want to get rid of it because 'it makes everything more professional' even though it would likely drop that 8k requirement a lot.

 

[MajinSweet4]

From what I understand this show...

was just made in someones apartment. An old saying "Fake it till you make it" is apt. And by the looks of things SIFTD has certainly not made it yet.

 

[Nightengale]

Just watched the EZA Pax west panel and Brandon pretty much just laid out everything Shane did wrong with this patreon.

"The most important thing in the beginning and this was an asset for us was to create a successful mission statement. basically make it clear to your audience who you are, what you are about and what you are going to be doing. Basically the mission of your patreon. If your patreon doesn't seem to have a mission it can drag or you don't get a sense of what they are doing. You may support them as a favor to them but you don't really get behind what they are doing."

Not word for word but I think you get the idea. Shane covers a little bit of this but I think most of the money he has gotten from this patreon is largely from people trying to do them a favor but most people don't get behind what they are doing. SIFTD's messaging couldn't be worse in this. What exactly is their mission statement? It's not to continue what they are doing because they won't be able to without reaching a relatively high goal so I guess its a desperate attempt to survive? Why would I or anyone else want to put money into that kind of patreon?

I hate to continue to be negative on this but hearing Brandon speak about it just made think about how poorly Shane's messaging has been for this site and the Patreon which is a shame because I'd hate to see him lose it all after all this work but I just don't know how he meets and maintains that 8k goal. It's possible he'll hit it this month but what about after that? What happens if it drops below that the following month?

There are just to many unanswered or impossible to answer questions about this move to Patreon.

Where's this panel?

 

[@MUWANdo]

Most of the talk about the studio has suggested he wants to hold onto it for future projects but it's been two years and he hasn't done shit. Suck it up and lose the studio, guy.

 

[KRaZyAmmo]

Where's this panel?

Here's the EZA PAX PANEL

 

[Immortal Technique]

No idea on an exact price but its significant and Shane has stated as much. He's mentioned several times he doesn't want to get rid of it because 'it makes everything more professional' even though it would likely drop that 8k requirement a lot.

Did you attend/watch the summit? Or the GameFace after the summit where the office was discussed? What you're saying is very different from what I heard from Shane re: both the cost, and the reasons to keep it.

I see another person posted about the office - still waiting for one person hung up on the office to say how much they think it costs.

 

[Cheerilee]

Those of you who think this office is bringing the whole thing down - how much do you experts think it costs?

Shane mentioned in the first sentence of the story linked in the OP that his office rent has suddenly doubled, which has pushed his business from "failing" (and being bailed out by his decimated personal finances) into "OMG, plz send help".

Shane seems to think his original ideas for the business were all solid and good and he just needs a little bit more time and money to make his business click at which point the money will start flowing in, but at this point it's not happening, so he really needs to cut costs anywhere he can.

If the office rent doubling is responsible for his current state of crisis, eliminating those same rent costs (if that's possible, or you can make it possible) should logically relieve the immediate crisis, and push his finances back in a more positive direction.

I don't know how much an office costs, but a quick google says that the average rent in LA is more than $2000 a month for a one bedroom apartment. His office rent could be in the range of "thousands" (even if it's just one). If his business is to survive, he's going to need to find "thousands" he can cut, somewhere in his monthly budget. None of us has access to his budget, but... if he needs to cut something from his budget, but everything in his budget is important and is in there for a good reason, then he's going to have to get rid of something that he isn't going to want to get rid of.

 

[Blackage]

Here's the EZA PAX PANEL

I really am glad those guys are having the success they're having after GT went down. That they still get to do what they love doing without that cloud of cooperate hanging over their heads ready to shut them down at any moment is a great feeling I'm sure.

 

[Cerium]

Did you attend/watch the summit? Or the GameFace after the summit where the office was discussed? What you're saying is very different from what I heard from Shane re: both the cost, and the reasons to keep it.

I see another person posted about the office - still waiting for one person hung up on the office to say how much they think it costs.

He said in this very thread that if he needed to cut costs that the office would be first to go.

A lot of people (our subscribers included) are suggesting dropping our location, but we want to do more than just talking head stuff and we need a studio to shoot those things. There's also at least some value in production values. Obviously, if it comes to it, the studio will be the first thing to go.

 

[Everlya_Apocryha]

alot has been said about this and i echoed what many have stated...either follow the EZA model of doing everything 'cheap' but honest and cultivate a likable community that likes you and your content or do what Danny O'Dwyer did with NoClip after he left Gamespot and produced a series of very professional content based on video games. Dan did NoClip without the studio upkeep......

Also till now, other than Pachtor Factor (which is basically a rebranded Pach Attack...a Gametrailers show)...there are not original 'hook' to SIFTD. The functionality of SIFTD is not communicated well to any one. Shane is also a VERY opinionated man...which is good and all...but from what i've seen from him in the past, he seems almost TOO opinionated. I still remember that GameFace episode where he discussed Bloodborne and the souls games with his guests and he didn't like it and just couldn't see beyond his own opinions on people like soulsborne games. When people like Marcus Beers, the self proclaimed annoyed gamer, can be objective enough than you...than probably you need to chill abit, Shane. It's cool to have opinions. But when people disagree with you, that doesn't mean your opinions precedes theirs.

 

[Booker Dewitt]

He said in this very thread that if he needed to cut costs that the office would be first to go.

I would say at the point you need a Hail Mary pass through crowd funding, it's way past time for the first cost cutting choice.

 

[snail_maze]

I would say at the point you need a Hail Mary pass through crowd funding, it's way past time for the first cost cutting choice.

Yeah, which is why I was wondering if the 8k was with or without studio. It seems high enough to be with it included but it just doesn't make sense to have it in your "bare minimum" pitch so I wasn't sure

 

[ClosingADoor]

Those of you who think this office is bringing the whole thing down - how much do you experts think it costs?

Depends on location. LA can be expensive. If I would guess, somewhere between $1000 and $2000.

 

[IpsoFacto]

Sad to say but SIFTD never really grabbed my attention.

Shane Satterfield is a cool guy but he either needs to cut a lot of expenditures or rethink his approach. Sorry if I sound heartless, but moving out of LA into a more affordable area(outside of California, if possible) is one way to stop the financial bleeding.

 

[ronaldthump]

everytime this show up, I'm like why is this not over? Its clear a product not many people need/want and if they can't wrangle up $8k, maybe its time to move on and get a real jerb. If he already has no way to make it work and then won't make it cheaper so it can work - he's not realistic and not deserving of anyone's support.

A news aggregator doesn't sound so bad, especially if it woud add non-gaming aspects too, would be covenient on the go. It should also be free and advertising supported though.
I don't see how or why original content is mixed in with the news aggregator. That's like a very different idea and must take up a lot of time, effort and money. I don't know how many people are interested in both of these aspects of the site, so strange that they were combined together

The only news aggregator i use is on the Ipad in the form of news which is free and built in. Do I care otherwise as a consumer? I can find anything I need to easily enough

 

[PaulLFC]

I'm struggling to work out how $8k a month can be the absolute minimum they need to run the site. If minimum costs are that high, it's probably time to evaluate and reduce them where possible (e.g. the studio). $8k a month can be one of the goals, sure, but it should absolutely be possible to operate on less, and if it's not, then sorry but it doesn't seem like the business is very viable.

As has been said, the Patreon is rather poorly done in that you don't start it off with "we need this much or the site is pretty much not going to exist for much longer" - that just makes people think why should I contribute if it's nowhere near the goal, my money is effectively meaningless as even if I pay the site will shut down. The initial goal should have been far lower and then work up to $8k, not start off there. That's a huge ask.

 

[excaliburps]

Those of you who think this office is bringing the whole thing down - how much do you experts think it costs?

A lot. I've been working in games media for close to seven years now and I haven't worked in one office yet. Even the people higher up than me are all working remotely.

If your office is in SF, which is where the hotbed of gaming activity is, expect to pay a ton for rent.

Thing is, with the way casting mics can be bought relatively cheap now, with good lighting and cameras also accessible, and add in software, etc., it's hard to justify that rent. Literally almost everything you do or want to do can be done in your house, garage, etc. If your concern is to look "professional," spruce the place up. No one will know or care where you shoot your stuff unless it looks bad.

If for writing, doing reviews, etc., definitely an office isn't needed.

$8K a month is a lot, I think. I mean, it's harder to justify helping them out given the office space, etc.

 

[LoveCake]

I don't know what the best thing is, I will check out that panel above and listen to what they say.

I just hope that Michael Pachter can be saved by somebody, I know he's hated here as much as he is liked, but it's good to hear from a completely different view on gaming, even if you don't like him, you must surely concede this at least.

I did put about the idea that maybe a GAF member that has the skills and is in the local of Michael Pachter could do the filming, if they are not skilled at editing another member could do this, it could be the start of Media GAF?

I don't know.

 

[snail_maze]

I don't know what the best thing is, I will check out that panel above and listen to what they say.

I just hope that Michael Pachter can be saved by somebody, I know he's hated here as much as he is liked, but it's good to hear from a completely different view on gaming, even if you don't like him, you must surely concede this at least.

I did put about the idea that maybe a GAF member that has the skills and is in the local of Michael Pachter could do the filming, if they are not skilled at editing another member could do this, it could be the start of Media GAF?

I don't know.

I wouldn't say Pachter is hated as such, more along the lines of people disagreeing with him when he makes predictions they don't like (since everyone is an expert themselves of course) and not letting him live past mistakes down. At least i hope people's reactions to him are somewhat in jest.
Anyway, he seems to do the show as a favour to the SIFTD owner, I doubt he would be interested in doing it with someone else (I could be wrong though of course)

 

[LoveCake]

I wouldn't say Pachter is hated as such, more along the lines of people disagreeing with him when he makes predictions they don't like (since everyone is an expert themselves of course) and not letting him live past mistakes down. At least i hope people's reactions to him are somewhat in jest.
Anyway, he seems to do the show as a favour to the SIFTD owner, I doubt he would be interested in doing it with someone else (I could be wrong though of course)

I think if there was somebody or something that would film, edit and upload/host the videos he would do it for anyone, Pachter has said that he doesn't get any money from it and he apparently insisted that the videos were available for free at a later date.

 

[The Wart]

Neogaf is already my content aggregator unfortunately....cool site though

Yeah between this and feedly I have no idea why I would pay for a news aggregator...

 

[BlackLiamNeeson]

https://youtu.be/0yYz_8BZjt8

Please watch the 100th episode of Gameface. Its a really fantastic show and is far less known and popular than it should be. Shane Satterfield has been working his ass off for years now and deserves some success. Check out the video, check out the site and if it takes your fancy please consider supporting it on Patreon.

Thanks guys!

 

[Wireframe]

https://youtu.be/0yYz_8BZjt8

Please watch the 100th episode of Gameface. Its a really fantastic show and is far less known and popular than it should be. Shane Satterfield has been working his ass off for years now and deserves some success. Check out the video, check out the site and if it takes your fancy please consider supporting it on Patreon.

Thanks guys!

Was about to post this, these guys have a great show every week.

 

[angelic]

It's getting sadder and sadder to see him argue with people on the site who tell him to drop the office. But no matter what he won't budge on that. The guy is stubborn as I've ever seen. It took him forever to adopt the Patreon model but now it's too little too late.

Yeah its a shame, I like him but he's really inflexible.

 

[angelic]

Was about to post this, these guys have a great show every week.

They have a goodwill about them you cant buy, the money isnt in content aggregation, it's in making warm shows with likable folks. Maybe shane should sponsor EZA, that would be a weird turnaround.

 

[Darturas]

If minimum costs are that high, it's probably time to evaluate and reduce them where possible (e.g. the studio).

I'm having a really tough time accepting that the "studio" is even worth what Shane believes it to be.

If that's the look he can achieve WITH a studio, how much worse would the look be if he simply filmed in his living room?

His backdrop is either a solid white wall, or an Ikea shelf with retro (?) game memorabilia. Jade Empire? Halo 3 Legendary Edition? Trophies from the Spike Video Game Awards? It's also painful to see an office chair, random cords, visible wall outlets, and the obstruction of the GameFace logo during his studio-necessary production.

 

[Linkura]

I'm having a really tough time accepting that the "studio" is even worth what Shane believes it to be.

If that's the look he can achieve WITH a studio, how much worse would the look be if he simply filmed in his living room?

His backdrop is either a solid white wall, or an Ikea shelf with retro (?) game memorabilia. Jade Empire? Halo 3 Legendary Edition? Trophies from the Spike Video Game Awards? It's also painful to see an office chair, random cords, visible wall outlets, and the obstruction of the GameFace logo during his studio-necessary production.

LMAO, this is the fucking office he insists on keeping to look professional? Looks like some dude's apartment, not an office.

 

[gogosox82]

LMAO, this is the fucking office he insists on keeping to look professional? Looks like some dude's apartment, not an office.

Was thinking the same. I don't get why he's so insistent on keeping the office.

 

[Vespene]

I'm having a really tough time accepting that the "studio" is even worth what Shane believes it to be.

If that's the look he can achieve WITH a studio, how much worse would the look be if he simply filmed in his living room?

His backdrop is either a solid white wall, or an Ikea shelf with retro (?) game memorabilia. Jade Empire? Halo 3 Legendary Edition? Trophies from the Spike Video Game Awards? It's also painful to see an office chair, random cords, visible wall outlets, and the obstruction of the GameFace logo during his studio-necessary production.

In my office I had video game stuff I actually cared about. You know, my signed vanilla WoW collector box, art books from my favorite game artists etc. This guy just adorns his desk with old, random game junk he salvaged from GT in an effort to look legit. A Jade Empire marketing comic book? Really?

 

[angelic]

It doesn't get much more hardcore than a Master Chief cat-hat, some press-pack Rabbids and a Big The Cat plushy.

 

[ronaldthump]

I'm having a really tough time accepting that the "studio" is even worth what Shane believes it to be.

If that's the look he can achieve WITH a studio, how much worse would the look be if he simply filmed in his living room?

His backdrop is either a solid white wall, or an Ikea shelf with retro (?) game memorabilia. Jade Empire? Halo 3 Legendary Edition? Trophies from the Spike Video Game Awards? It's also painful to see an office chair, random cords, visible wall outlets, and the obstruction of the GameFace logo during his studio-necessary production.

🙈

Maybe The $8k is for him to buy more toys. Yeah that is a terrible setup up. Looks cheap. Its foregone that SIFTE isnt worth saving

He's better off going to ikea, buying some shelves/ 1-2 large LED lights and setting up something at home. Guy had no idea. Plenty of youtube channels look better. No one cares how professional your space is, especially when you can't afford to pay for it yourself and need to beg for money

 

[angelic]

People want humble and down to earth, not suits, ties, expensive offices you can't afford. I mean EZA still runs out of Brandon Jones's garage for gods sake, and feels like a gathering of people who play games, do their day jobs too, even talk about them on the show (like when Kyle goes off to work with Keighley). They feel like your pals on the screen, dressed like you and I.

I'm sorry to go in hard on SIFTD, but their messaging is just so tone deaf it's untrue. Like some early 2000s mentality where they think we need suits and offices to take them seriously, and we need some authority to speak unto us. Nope..anyone with a camera can do this now, you need to be approachable, warm, friendly, and not in a shirt, tie and office, especially when Pachter's actual office and home are clearly worth a lot more and embarrass that one.

 

[Novel Mike]

Just going to repost this from a few pages back...

https://vimeo.com/226931669

This is from well over a year ago and I think despite everything thats happened Shane hasn't learned a damn thing. The way he talks about trusting him with money and taking all the credit for the content GT produced (I mean sure, hes a part of it but it was a huge company at the time it was a massive team effort) just says to me that he really doesn't get it. He's set in his ways from 5-10+ years ago and refuses to change with the market and hes going to lose it all because of it.

I don't care for Shane because of his attitude but I don't want to see the guy or the site fail but what the hell is anyone suppose to do when he won't budge on a damn thing. He still won't break down and explain what everything in the 8k minimum goes towards so how can anyone take him seriously? If you can't trust the very people who are handing you money why the hell should they trust you about what you say your putting it towards or how much you really need?

I just wish he'd actually freaking listen to someone besides himself for once.

 

[diablogod]

https://youtu.be/0yYz_8BZjt8

Please watch the 100th episode of Gameface. Its a really fantastic show and is far less known and popular than it should be. Shane Satterfield has been working his ass off for years now and deserves some success. Check out the video, check out the site and if it takes your fancy please consider supporting it on Patreon.

Thanks guys!

I've watched a few episodes of Gameface here and there, I think this format worked alot better than what they used to do. Maybe keep the super topical stuff to every other week or once a month and do more stuff like this?

Anyway hope there Patreon is successful, always liked Shane, Marcus and even Pachter.

 

[Immortal Technique]

People want humble and down to earth, not suits, ties, expensive offices you can't afford. I mean EZA still runs out of Brandon Jones's garage for gods sake, and feels like a gathering of people who play games, do their day jobs too, even talk about them on the show (like when Kyle goes off to work with Keighley). They feel like your pals on the screen, dressed like you and I.

I'm sorry to go in hard on SIFTD, but their messaging is just so tone deaf it's untrue. Like some early 2000s mentality where they think we need suits and offices to take them seriously, and we need some authority to speak unto us. Nope..anyone with a camera can do this now, you need to be approachable, warm, friendly, and not in a shirt, tie and office, especially when Pachter's actual office and home are clearly worth a lot more and embarrass that one.

Maybe you just looked at the screencap and not watched the episode, but the motif of this episode #100 was a faux-newscast, they never wear suits otherwise.

 

[Immortal Technique]

I don't care for Shane because of his attitude but I don't want to see the guy or the site fail but what the hell is anyone suppose to do when he won't budge on a damn thing. He still won't break down and explain what everything in the 8k minimum goes towards so how can anyone take him seriously? If you can't trust the very people who are handing you money why the hell should they trust you about what you say your putting it towards or how much you really need?.

I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding trust, but I'm curious what you are looking for here. I don't think I've ever seen a Patreon give a detailed breakdown of expenses for the minimum level like you're asking for. Do you have an example?

 

[Jigorath]

I'm having a really tough time accepting that the "studio" is even worth what Shane believes it to be.

If that's the look he can achieve WITH a studio, how much worse would the look be if he simply filmed in his living room?

His backdrop is either a solid white wall, or an Ikea shelf with retro (?) game memorabilia. Jade Empire? Halo 3 Legendary Edition? Trophies from the Spike Video Game Awards? It's also painful to see an office chair, random cords, visible wall outlets, and the obstruction of the GameFace logo during his studio-necessary production.

Is that Big the Cat hahahaha

 

[angelic]

Maybe you just looked at the screencap and not watched the episode, but the motif of this episode #100 was a faux-newscast, they never wear suits otherwise.

Thanks for the correction, I went off the screen.

 

[Novel Mike]

I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding trust, but I'm curious what you are looking for here. I don't think I've ever seen a Patreon give a detailed breakdown of expenses for the minimum level like you're asking for. Do you have an example?

I don't think I've ever seen a Patreon require a basic amount to stay running. Thats the point, if he is going to demand a certain amount of money from his audience they deserve to know what thats actually going towards and why its that specific amount. Does it go towards paying the rent for the office? Is it to pay certain people? Server costs for the site? ect.

I'm not saying he needs to spell out every little detail but when hes repeatedly said the office costs him a lot and he refuses to drop it and yet still says he needs 8k to keep things running I and pretty everyone else talking about this think he should tell people what the money they are putting into this thing is actually going towards.

I and no one else would be arguing if he didn't have this crazy 8k requirement that he needs to meet and maintain.

Also on what the money part goes towards element you started with, EZA doesn't spell it out exactly but they have said who is able to be full time or part time with the money they have and what would require a studio and and to make everyone full time, ect.

 

[Immortal Technique]

Now he's demanding money? Come on dude, grow up.

People shouldn't pay anything if they don't like the content and want to support it. Same goes for any KS/Patreon. Pay what the content is worth to you, that's the beauty of it. I contribute to a KS/Patreon because I am enthusiastic about what I'm supporting, not because I was shown some balance sheet that lays out their expenses. I don't know why it should make a difference from our perspective.

 

[Ben Morales]

Now he's demanding money? Come on dude, grow up.

It seems like the "demanding money" he was referring to was the fact that he is going to close the Patreon if he doesn't reach the goal at the end of the month.

I feel like you are really invested in SIFTD which is cool. But no need to get defensive. We want it to succeed but some of us are a little frustrated or confused about the way Shane is running it. That's all.

 

[@MUWANdo]

I no longer care if it succeeds or not, frankly--dude has no idea what he's doing and won't give an inch even as he's being forced to panhandle, so let him fail.

 

[Ben Morales]

I no longer care if it succeeds or not, frankly--dude has no idea what he's doing and won't give an inch even as he's being forced to panhandle, so let him fail.

Yeah, to be honest, I'm starting to feel this way too.

 

[Novel Mike]

Yeah, to be honest, I'm starting to feel this way too.

Yep same, its frustrating seeing all this happen when almost all the problems largely come down to Shane himself. Hes worked so hard on this but hes literally his own worst enemy and he doesn't see that at all.

 

[Immortal Technique]

It seems like the "demanding money" he was referring to was the fact that he is going to close the Patreon if he doesn't reach the goal at the end of the month.

You would propose something different? If the company is insolvent, what is he supposed to do?

 

[Devilgunman]

Wow, I haven't seen the show itself but that is just a poorly composed setup. All the craps in the background, an office chair, a trash bin(!?), blocked lcd tv with overblown light in the corner, cord on the table, messy tie etc. everything seems very amateurish. He has video production experience, right?

 

[Reani]

gonna miss pach show.
that "office/studio" is definitely not worth saving based on picture above