Pilgrimzero
Member
Just started playing Witcher 3. The controls are horrid. The way he moves coupled with the camera is just... how does this happen in production?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Help me choose: Skyrim vs Witcher 3 vs Fallout: New Vegas
- Thread starter Gorilla Shark
- Start date
Sabercrusader
Member
Based on what you like, Witcher 3 seems like the best choice. New Vegas after, and Skyrim last. Other than exploration and maybe customization I would say Skyrim is the weakest of the 3. Story and atmosphere are multiple leagues better in both Witcher 3 and New Vegas. You couldn't really go wrong with playing either of those two.
Poot Poot Splash
Member
All 3. You should be able to pick up all of them real cheap.
currynation
Neo Member
I vote for Witcher 3. Its the best rpg.
Fallout is more of the same if u like torturing yourself. Skyrim is only good with mods now.
Fallout is more of the same if u like torturing yourself. Skyrim is only good with mods now.
The game isn't ignoring 99% of your choices, not every choice affects the ending directly but most of those choices still had consequences. And some choices do affect the ending, but not what happens with Ciri. Every dialogue bit you had with Ciri absolutely shouldn't affect the ending, since every bit of dialogue isn't equally important or isn't linked in any way to what happens in the end. You didn't get your ending either just because
you didn't have the snowball fight. You can not have that and still have more positive ending. It was about the support you show to Ciri and how independent you let her to be. It's not clear what kind of ending you are going to get, but it is logical.
Also you seem to be quite passionate about morality/karma/rep systems. https://radshitegaming.com/2017/04/25/what-is-the-best-video-game-morality-system/ I personally liked this blogpost, maybe you'd like to check it out too. Not that it would be something you agree with, but just food for thought. It's an interesting point of discussion.
There are two different movement settings, you should try out the other one if it fits you better.
Sändersson
Member
Tbh I dont get these comments like at all. Sure its not as responsive as mgs but the controls are fine when you "learn" them. It took like 5 minutes for me to get used to Geralts momentum and I was good for the rest of the game.
Ps. You should try both movement options from the control tab to see which fits you better if you havent already. Personally both of them are fine to me but the alternative is more responsive.
TheRedSnifit
Member
My complaint isn't that the snowball fight shouldn't have an impact, or that the snowball fight was the sole decider. My point is that such a small fraction of the choices are actually flagged that the story can easily fail to represent the way you actually role played, ignoring both the vast majority of your choices as well as the actually important choices you make, and instead flagging a small handful of arbitrary, minor dialogue choices that are of no real consequence otherwise. This is especially absurd in a game like The Witcher 3, which has so many missions and so many (mostly meaningless) decisions that it's difficult to pay attention to all of them, especially when so many of them are padding and formulaic busywork.
The article is correct, but the Witcher fails in execution.
If there were a system where the sum of all your choices mattered, where things are determined based on how you interact throughout the entire game, where dozens or even hundreds of choices add up to larger consequences, it'd be perfect. But the Witcher 3 isn't that, it's just a very small amount of choices among many that inexplicably have hugely disproportionate results. There are way too many "choices" in The Witcher 3 that seem like they might be important but actually aren't, and the actually important choices are arbitrarily scattered among insignificant ones. So the end result ends up being worse than the Reputation system, which does indeed factor in nearly all of your interactions throughout the game, and as a result much more accurately reflects your play style.
His main complaint, at any rate, seems to be that these other games actually show you your karma. The Witcher games still have karma insofar as it determines how the story plays out by flagging certain types of player behavior and adding it up to see if it meets an integer, it's just not shown to the player and is much more arbitrary in how it's calculated.
Baraka Obama
Banned
Eurojank
Mr.Deadshot
Member
The Greek Freak
Member
Skyrim is medioce.
New Vegas is a trash fire in every way.
Witcher 3 is great except for the mediocre combat.
Pretty easy choice.
New Vegas is a trash fire in every way.
Witcher 3 is great except for the mediocre combat.
Pretty easy choice.
The "main ending" is more about Ciri than Geralt, you get to play small combat bits with Ciri but you don't get to roleplay as her much. So to me it makes sense that the white frost part isn't that much about what you as Geralt did earlier in the game, since it's not Geralt trying to stop it. You aren't playing the role of the world's saviour in this. Why would what happened with Baron or Keira in example affect what happens with Ciri and the frost, those are not related. Only how you treat Ciri will affect Ciri, that makes sense imo. But there's still other factors in play with the ending than what happens to her. Do you end up alone or with one of your romance partners, what do they end up doing and how about some of your other friends and foes, what happens with Skellige etc.
And I'm not sure what you mean by that you aren't able to pay attention to all of the choices. I don't remember being confused what events led to certain consequences while playing the game, after the concequence happened. I could intepret it as that you aren't able to "game" the choices and this would bother you? You don't know where your choices will lead, you want to play in certain way to get certain type of ending? Especially regarding Ciri, there is no indicator "hey this is important, choose wisely!" and there shouldn't be. Since you are intended to choose the response that feels right for your Geralt, you are not supposed to stop and think "how will this shape the ending? What is the correct choice". That wouldn't be good roleplaying. Neither Geralt or the player knows how Ciri reacts to what you choose. At the moment of these choices, it's not about the ending. It's about the relationship between Geralt and Ciri. Geralt being hugely important to Ciri, it will affect her.
Apologies if I misunderstood your issues with the game completely.
Fallout: New Vegas may be my favorite of the three, but I'm not sure that I would recommend playing the 360 version.
I'm surprised to see lots of people here saying that it has "aged poorly", unless they are only focusing on the graphics.
So I might suggest The Witcher 3 instead, even if I haven't made that much progress in it myself.
Though it's supposed to be a great RPG, I really don't care for many of the gameplay mechanics in it - especially the combat, and that's stopped me putting a lot of time into the game.
I keep going back to it and hoping that there's a point I will cross where I won't want to put it down, but it hasn't happened for me yet. I bought the game at launch and have only put maybe 5-10 hours into it on-and-off over time.
Skyrim is not much of a role-playing game, the story is awful, and most of the sidequests are bland.
Despite that, I did end up putting a lot more time into it than I thought I would.
So I don't hate the game, but it feels like it was built to be gaming "junk food". It doesn't ask much of the player and it doesn't give back much in return, but it's fine if you're just looking for a way to relax or kill time.
Though New Vegas may share a lot of similarities to Fallout 3 on the surface, it's much more of an RPG than those other games were.
Things like being able to create your own character, having to make tough decisions in that process instead of being able to create a jack of all trades that ends up a master of all, and then having complex quest design which makes the story feel unique to the character that you created, doesn't seem to factor into the modern definition of role-playing game.
I'm surprised to see lots of people here saying that it has "aged poorly", unless they are only focusing on the graphics.
So I might suggest The Witcher 3 instead, even if I haven't made that much progress in it myself.
Though it's supposed to be a great RPG, I really don't care for many of the gameplay mechanics in it - especially the combat, and that's stopped me putting a lot of time into the game.
I keep going back to it and hoping that there's a point I will cross where I won't want to put it down, but it hasn't happened for me yet. I bought the game at launch and have only put maybe 5-10 hours into it on-and-off over time.
Skyrim is not much of a role-playing game, the story is awful, and most of the sidequests are bland.
Despite that, I did end up putting a lot more time into it than I thought I would.
So I don't hate the game, but it feels like it was built to be gaming "junk food". It doesn't ask much of the player and it doesn't give back much in return, but it's fine if you're just looking for a way to relax or kill time.
That's true, I don't care for Fallout 3, and 4 is even worse. I actively dislike Fallout 4, rather than thinking it's just not very good.
Though New Vegas may share a lot of similarities to Fallout 3 on the surface, it's much more of an RPG than those other games were.
These days people equate role-playing to stats, loot, and leveling systems; and to a lesser degree, story-heavy games. You have people calling games like Breath of the Wild and Horizon: Zero Dawn role-playing games now.
Things like being able to create your own character, having to make tough decisions in that process instead of being able to create a jack of all trades that ends up a master of all, and then having complex quest design which makes the story feel unique to the character that you created, doesn't seem to factor into the modern definition of role-playing game.
momshotdad
Member
New Vegas. I couldn't stand the controls in W3 and I thought Skyrim was good, but NV is much better.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I'm not saying "The Witcher 3 has no choices that don't affect the ending," I'm saying "The Witcher 3 has relatively few choices that affect anything (including the ending), especially when compared to New Vegas."
The vast majority of conversation trees only have two or three lines of dialog unique to your "choice," then the immediate response (from whomever you're speaking to) to that selection. After that, the conversation just goes back into the same dialog tree that's shared by all the "choices." Whereas in New Vegas the vast majority of conversation trees have an impact on how the quest plays out. There are some exceptional Witcher quests with lots of choice and some dud NV quests that are just "Go here and kill something," but there's absolutely a difference in the level of roleplaying offered.
The Witcher 3 has a ton of quests, a hugely excessive amount (I think it's pretty bloated in this regard). And regarding Ciri specifically there are dozens and dozens of dialogue trees. So it's pretty standard for a Geralt who's normally supportive of Ciri to maybe not want to go with her to a guy she met once's grave because it seems like more inane busy work in a main quest clearly padding itself out with filler.
It's just impossible for me to care about every bloody dialogue tree in the game when the vast majority of them have zero impact and are frankly incredibly boring, yet if I don't carefully consider even a tiny amount I run the risk of them completely undoing the other 90% of them. Either you need most quests to have some sort of consequence so you know to carefully go through each of them, or you need to telegraph when an important choice comes up. Demonstrating to the player that most of their choices don't matter and then hiding important choices in what's little more than filler dialogue is frankly bad design, and it's bad roleplaying when you make 100 decisions and the only six of them matter.
Aah, well we agree on that. In my response to the OP I actually said the same, that NW has more player choice. To me it's the biggest strenght of that game. And something I'm hoping from Cyberpunk.
Hmm, the guy
was more than someone who she "just ment once". He ended up sacrifising himself for Ciri. Geralt having recently thought that he lost Ciri, so spending time with her would be important and precious and knowing that there's someone who lost his life in order to help Ciri, my Geralt would absolutely accompany her to the grave. It's clear that it's important to Ciri, so then it's important to my Geralt. Your Geralt seems bit like a dick =P
And here we disagree too, I love the writing and even the smaller side characters in this game. So I love to interact with people (monsters too). I don't expect almost every or even most interaction to have big ramifications, in any RPG. If these interactions add flavor, depth to the characters or the world I'm more than happy to participate. Inane busy work for me is to collect 10 nekker hearts just because merchant wants them for reselling and other stuff like that. So Witcher contracts, that's literally work for Geralt. Though in W3 there's more care put into even those than in the earlier games, when it was about what I described above. In W3 even some contracts end up being very memorable.
My relationship with Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim is uneven. I agree with the sentiment that they are sort of "junk food" games with stories and characters that don't feel as inspired as NV or Witcher 3, but Bethesda seems to be committed to a kind of immersive sim sandbox gameplay that just doesn't exist in Witcher or Dragon Age or Mass Effect, and does it at a scale you don't see in Dishonored or Prey. You have to agree there's a greater sense of freedom in Bethesda's RPGs, even if that comes at the cost of bugginess. Those games feel like massive machines with a bunch of parts running autonomously, and those individual components don't always agree with each other. Plus, OP already said they liked games like Breath of the Wild and GTA V, which sort of have the same spirit of freedom and total sandbox gameplay.
With that in mind, I think New Vegas probably contains enough of the sandbox gameplay OP might like in Skyrim. That's not the main focus on New Vegas, but it's still there, plus it's still got a ton of exploration. It's just... you gotta deal with the console version of New Vegas. I don't know how much they got to fix the bugs in that.
Of these games Witcher 3 is the least "sandbox." It's open-world sure, and in fact all three Witcher games feel like they were built to have some level of sandbox AI rules as a backdrop, but it doesn't offer as much freedom of gameplay compared to the other games in this thread. It's more concerned with telling the stories it has to tell, in the form of quests and characters at least as well-written as those in New Vegas. OP also might not like the controls. In terms of visual polish, graphics, and presentation however, Witcher 3 is far and away the most modern game in this discussion.
With that in mind, I think New Vegas probably contains enough of the sandbox gameplay OP might like in Skyrim. That's not the main focus on New Vegas, but it's still there, plus it's still got a ton of exploration. It's just... you gotta deal with the console version of New Vegas. I don't know how much they got to fix the bugs in that.
Of these games Witcher 3 is the least "sandbox." It's open-world sure, and in fact all three Witcher games feel like they were built to have some level of sandbox AI rules as a backdrop, but it doesn't offer as much freedom of gameplay compared to the other games in this thread. It's more concerned with telling the stories it has to tell, in the form of quests and characters at least as well-written as those in New Vegas. OP also might not like the controls. In terms of visual polish, graphics, and presentation however, Witcher 3 is far and away the most modern game in this discussion.
ScientificPizza
Banned
It absolutely is not a karma system and the ending hinges on more than just a snowball fight
Youre still trying to narrow what role playing *should* be based on what one game does. The Witcher is a different kind of role playing game than New Vegas because you are playing a predefined character with an incredibly long history and an already well established moral code. Youre role playing *that* character, not *your* character, which is still a completely valid form of role playing
Youre also tying to paint The Witchers decision making as only effecting the ending while ignoring all of the decisions and multiple paths in the countless side quests around the world
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I don't think you need to download anything? Steam has official support for Dualshock4 now, you just need to go through few settings in Steam's big picture mode or something.
Edit: My friend has done this and not me personally, so I can't be 100% sure how it works. But it does.
You're really jumping right in the deep end there, but it's absolutely worthwhile to go through the process of getting the game all modded up.
I highly recommend reading the game's page on PC Gaming Wiki.
It's easy to go overboard with modding, but the list of "Essential Improvements" they have on the page looks good.
Steam does have support for DualShock 4 controllers now.
To activate it, you have to open Big Picture Mode, then go to Settings > Controller Settings and enable PS4 Configuration Support. I'd recommend doing this before you connect the controller.
If it doesn't work immediately, you may have to disconnect the controller, restart Steam, and reconnect the controller to get it working the first time. It worked fine for me, but some people have reported issues - though that was some time ago.
Now games will see it as an XInput controller (most new games use this) rather than a DirectInput controller, and you can hit the PS button to bring up the Steam Overlay which enables you to remap the controls as you see fit.
Monocle
Member
Witcher 3 for sure. Skyrim is unmissable though. Pick it up on Black Friday if you can.
There's so much more to it than dialogue trees that affect progression. How can you appreciate anything with such a cynical attitude?
This is a nonissue with alternative movement enabled.
What an awful reductive opinion. The Witcher 3's well written and well voiced dialogue is so much better than your typical adventure/RPG. If you're "bored" by quality characterization, world building, and little moments that give flavor to the setting, then you have the wrong mindset to enjoy the game.
There's so much more to it than dialogue trees that affect progression. How can you appreciate anything with such a cynical attitude?
Thanks for clarifying further!
138
Banned
Hell, didn't even think of modding. I just wanted a smoother experience than the PS3 offers. Didn't mind it however many years ago, but I just couldn't deal with it the last time I attempted a new game.
Is modding essential, or does it just enhance the experience?
I played the game for the first time just two years ago and did it without mods. Loved it, so personally I don't think mods are essential. But no doubt there's some good stuff to try out. But I wouldn't worry about it too much honestly. The game can stand on it's own, if there are mods to fix some of the bugs then it's another issue.
TeddyShardik
Banned
I wasn't the biggest fan of Witcher 3 but it blows Skyrim out of the water effortlessly.
New Vegas is always worth a look. Get to it when you're done with Geralt.
New Vegas is always worth a look. Get to it when you're done with Geralt.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
New Vegas is the best choice for all of those except exploration, Skyrim has it beat.
It does look and play ike shit though and the Open World might be a bit barebones for your liking but it's really the game I've had the most fun with in terms of pure agency from the three you mentioned.
138
Banned
Thanks for the info. I'll look through some mods tomorrow and see if any are essential to fix gameplay.
Your in for a ride. New Vegas with all the DLC is an unparalleled experience (save for maybe the BG Trilogy).
Honestly, I say you avoid a lot of heavy modding for your first run through. Tough if you want something to enhanced what's already there I highly suggest Vicious Wasteland.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/...newvegas/ajax/modchangelog/?id=56671&v=&pUp=1
It just takes what's in the game and makes it really matter.
You can play it without mods, but the "essential" list there just covers bugfixes and stability improvements. They improve the game without adding to it or changing anything else about it.
New Vegas has a reputation for not being the most stable game - whether it's on PC or console - but those mods really help. I actually don't recall running into any problems at all the last time I played New Vegas with that mod selection. Even without modding the game I didn't run into many problems.
This thread seems laser guided to get RPG GAF to eat itself all Uroboros like.
OP, I suggest playing all three.
If you MUST play them in some order, then I suggest:
Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas, Witcher 3
They all actually bring something unique to the table and while I think some are clearly better than others, they are all good enough to at least have a conversation about.
OP, I suggest playing all three.
If you MUST play them in some order, then I suggest:
Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas, Witcher 3
They all actually bring something unique to the table and while I think some are clearly better than others, they are all good enough to at least have a conversation about.
Peroroncino
Member
Witcher 3 is my GOAT so I'd say that, however you also can't go wrong with Fallout: New Vegas.
fluffydelusions
Member
This is about Fallout: new vegas
TheRedSnifit
Member
Then we're in agreement, lol. I'm talking about its weaknesses strictly in relation to New Vegas.
I'm not doing any of this. I suggest you read my posts more carefully.
It's reductive to think a game is bloated and padded out with unecessary filler now?
Hot take for OP: The Witcher 3 is way too fucking long. The quests were entertaining for a while, but there are only so many ways you can do "talk to dude, ride to location, detective vision and kill the monster(s)/dude(s)" before it becomes formulaic and boring. The same was true for the combat; there just wasn't enough depth to the combat to keep it engaging throughout the entire game. The story and atmosphere is great throughout the game, but for me it wasn't enough to make the game the masterpiece most think it is.
The game would be much, much better if it was a 40-60 hour experience rather than 100+. While avoiding/ignoring side quests is possible, the game makes it unappealing to do so with its location markers, triggered quests, events etc.
Doctor Shatner
Member
Witcher 3 took a while to hook me but when it did...man, it hooked me hard. Fantastic game + expansions and definitely what I would recommend.
Can't go wrong with Skyrim or Fallout though (but please play Witcher afterward if you pick one of those!)
Can't go wrong with Skyrim or Fallout though (but please play Witcher afterward if you pick one of those!)
ScientificPizza
Banned
Ive heard many ridiculous takes about The Witcher 3, but saying its padded might take the fucking cake
Boss Man
Member
Skyrim, without a doubt.
MidnightCowboy
Member
Skellige sure is lol
138
Banned
Seriously? What about the whole Dandelion sequence?
CecilRousso
Member
It was about 60-65h for me to beat the basegame, and I thought I did quite a lot of side quests. Didn't spend much time with treasure hunts or gwent in that playthrough do.
Why? It's the second most interesting part of the game after the bogs.
If anything, the only padding there is is that loooong Dandelion girlfriends mission. Now that was bad.
New Vegas is great. Worth playing along with TW.
I can't tell anymore if seriously having issue with TW3 controls or just doing GAFmeme.
That said try alternative movement mode in settings or if you are on PC there is mod or two for movement I imagine. For me it took like 10 minutes to get used to Geralts weighty movement and animation bound actions. I tried alternative mode and it was so god damn twitchy it felt awful to play.
At least you are honest.
What sets TW3's quests, main or side, apart from most RPG's out there is that they all have uniquely written story even if gameplay loop doesn't change from quest to quest. It's on you as player to decide if you want to engage with the world of the game and those stories told in quests. If you don't give a shit then sure, they become chore and filler. If you engage and feel sucked in by the world then those side quests can be very interesting stories to experience.
If they were your run of an mill repeatables that were thrown around without any effort put to them then they would be pure garbo. Collectibles you can just turn off and ignore if those aren't your thing in games.
Combat for sure is serviceable. It isn't terrible like some GAF loves to yell from rooftops, bit it isn't amazing either. Same time you get quite overpowered quite fast so combat for majority of game isn't big deal.
How it's padding? It has some awesome story lines there.
You mean all those chests in ocean? Just turn indicators off if you aren't obsessive 100% runner. I collected every single chest in game indicated by marker.
I put 80h into Skyrim and I have no idea why they keep reheating that game.
pwnzernator
Member
Witcher if you enjoyed the "choose your own adventure" books as a kid. You're basically playing a novel with little gameplay.
I just....what? There's tons of gameplay. Tons of exploring, combat + GWENT (the game's in-game collectible card game)
The fact that the OP mentioned story and sidequests first makes me think W3 is probably the game for him. New Vegas is also very good.
And a recommendation: For W3, play on hardest difficulty if you're good at action games. It starts out a bit rough but becomes easier a few hours in. After that, it's the only difficulty that's going to challenge you to really make use of the multiple layers in the game's combat and character building. That armor you bought at the store and straight up sword skills will carry you on any other difficulty. But on Death March, you need to pay attention
Hey look- somebody wrote an article agreeing with me:
https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/3/8712405/witcher-3-difficulty