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Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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bgassassin
Member
Madness. Next you'll be telling me consoles can't have 8GB of memory when I can get the same amount on Newegg for $3.
THAT'S WHAT - wait
bgassassin
Member
You must have skinny arms. There's a thread on the OT side that could help you with that.
What's wrong with skinny arms? My gf loves them, I know some girls that loves skinny arms and hate arms with too much muscles.
bgassassin
Member
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Yes, many publishers have reported loses over the years.
A lot of changes had to be made this gen and we're stuck in the middle of a big economic crysis, but you are talking as if everyone in the industry except Nintendo has been bleeding money for the last six years. If that were the case everyone would have left the industry already.
Just like in other big industries, in the long run there will be only a few big publishers left in the videogame industry making the big blockbuster titles and a bunch of indie developers making low budget games.
That's were things are headed.
The good news is the game industry should be more open to indie hits than the film industry.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
That's just a company selling their product, saying nice things about it.
That being said, every company would like to keep their system small and stylish if possible... and powerful, and cheap, and fully featured, and succesful, and... you get the point. As I said, it's all a matter of making the right trade-offs, playing well your cards, just like in software development.
I agree.
There were plenty of Service's like this, long before the Nintendo one, in the 80s. The Source, Compuserve or Quantum Link for example.
Actually a lot weight can be put behind the statement that nobody made money this generation except Nintendo. Certainly not EVERY publisher lost money. Epic's Middleware Engine Business allowed them to sponge revenues off other developers along with their own games. But it was a bloodbath and even if it didn't outright kill some publishers and developers cold dead (even when it did, like Midway) it certainly put a drain on cash reserves at most major publishers.
This leads back to my original point that if the job of publishers and developers was to make money "period," then most failed this generation, to degrees moderate to extraordinary, meaning they obviously thought wrong about the market and where to put their efforts, regardless of tangential issues like "demographics."
I just don't think that's a good enough explanation. Companies were struggling for years because the cost of updating to new engines and new hardware and new development tools and HD and all that sent budgets skyrocketing, such that selling the same amount of units no longer produced a good enough turnover on revenue, not because it's destiny.
bgassassin
Member
Yeah I'm familiar with a couple of them. And it's my fault for forgetting about them.
brain_stew
Member
32MB and no, the "Loop" won't have 100MB of eDRAM.
bgassassin
Member
I remember you winking or something over at B3D about that being shared between the CPU and GPU in an APU-style setup. Can you reaffirm that with a wink?
crazy monkey
Banned
brain_stew I used to wait for you analysis on any hardware related topic here.
bgassassin
Member
Found what I was looking for and as I thought it was in response to one of wsippel's posts.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1573832&postcount=191
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1573832&postcount=191
crazy monkey
Banned
From the same place:
Quote:
Originally Posted by brain_stew
Chatter about a significant amount of eDRAM is spot on. Final hardware will have enough for either 720p w/ MSAA or 1080p rendering in a single pass. I don't think anyone will really be disappointed with the memory/cache setup once more specific details leak
So it is fine yippee
bgassassin
Member
Yeah I remember that now. I was originally guessing 32MB. Should have stuck with it.
Also AlStrong posted this in the Prediction thread over there.
Though I'd like more explanation on that.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Does BrainStew have connections?
What about it? It's just a 32-bit Z-buffer.
This link is a godsend right now, I'nm reading through and beginning to understand so much more about where Nintendo could take this and simultaneously feeling very confident that Nintendo will deliver with this console (beyond the tablet control having great gameplay applications). Something I'd like to know though, is it ever mentioned in the thread that an RV770LE was in the kits as per wsippel's sources' claim waaaay back when?
(IIRC it was something like a 3.6GHz TriCore, AMD HD Radeon 4830, & 1GB of memory, right?)
bgassassin
Member
^ I don't recall that ever being mentioned dealing with the card. Keep reading though for interesting debate. ^_^
Yeah to you it's just a Z-buffer.
I've gotten better with the calculation, but the application is something I still want to understand better. How would that effect things from a game standpoint?
But the ride is so much fun.
Yeah to you it's just a Z-buffer.
I've gotten better with the calculation, but the application is something I still want to understand better. How would that effect things from a game standpoint?
But the ride is so much fun.
Actually, I think I need to find this information for prosperity's sake. It was posted in this thread, but damn if it's not going to be a pain in the ass to backtrack and find it. :lol
The ride is really fun.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
How much embedded mem (1T-SRAM?) would be necessary for 1080p, some form of good AA and support for 2 tablets?
Would 32MB cover that?
Would 32MB cover that?
BlackNMild2k1
Member
I should probably rephrase to be sure I get the answer I want.
How much embedded Mem is necessary to achieve 1080p @ 60fps, some form of good AA and 2 tablets that also support their full resolution (800x540?) @60fps w/ good AA?
Will the rumored 32MBs eDRAM(or 1T-SRAM) cover that?
Is it possible that Nintendo would include 48MBs or 64MB?
How much embedded Mem is necessary to achieve 1080p @ 60fps, some form of good AA and 2 tablets that also support their full resolution (800x540?) @60fps w/ good AA?
Will the rumored 32MBs eDRAM(or 1T-SRAM) cover that?
Is it possible that Nintendo would include 48MBs or 64MB?
Found it!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28852265&postcount=623
I'm also currently fishing for a comment he linked to that was made on a German forum regarding the 3.5GHz/HD4830/GDDR3 memory claim from the kits that were freezing due to the 4830's shenanigans. Of course, I don't intend on doing any detective work if it's to the detriment of anyone's job security (or well being, because ninjas can be brutal). I just want to get another starting point or even some ideas flowing again that may have gone overlooked.
Edit: Just realized that my mind was thinking he specified memory amounts when the actual quote was dealing more with memory types due to the topic of that portion of the thread being what kind of memory could be used in the console.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28852265&postcount=623
wsippel said:
I'm also currently fishing for a comment he linked to that was made on a German forum regarding the 3.5GHz/HD4830/GDDR3 memory claim from the kits that were freezing due to the 4830's shenanigans. Of course, I don't intend on doing any detective work if it's to the detriment of anyone's job security (or well being, because ninjas can be brutal). I just want to get another starting point or even some ideas flowing again that may have gone overlooked.
Edit: Just realized that my mind was thinking he specified memory amounts when the actual quote was dealing more with memory types due to the topic of that portion of the thread being what kind of memory could be used in the console.
bgassassin
Member
But would the controller stream even have an impact on that? That would be my question since depending on the game it would be separate information from what we see on screen. But I doubt that they would increase that due to cost and die size. They'd probably look to increase main memory first which would be more than welcome.
Actually, I think I need to find this information for prosperity's sake. It was posted in this thread, but damn if it's not going to be a pain in the ass to backtrack and find it. :lol
The ride is really fun.
Took me way too long to post since you found what you were looking for.
lherre seemed to be pretty adamant about it being three cores so I'll stick with that. I also don't see it being DX12 compliant (nor would that matter since Nintendo won't be using DX). I can see 1.5GB of GDDR5, but XDR2 might be too expensive.
Then there is still the rumor that the CPU has 16MB of cache (which I think is L2).
P.S. I love having the old search feature back.
DX12 isn't even coming next year. It hasn't even been announced yet. Besides, why would they modify an RV770 for that?
Depends on if developers want double buffering or triple buffering
Then you get into HDR, which means you need to generate each scene twice then render a final buffer. More accurate your HDR is, the more framebuffer it needs.
One more just for good measure:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29863782&postcount=4627
Seeing as how I went back 10+ pages after that and couldn't find the direct quote referenced there, I'm going to assume something big is in this detail. Or I overlooked it in my comb through. Once more, if this is prying too much, just shoot me a message and this all disappears.
While not a direct modification for the sake of meeting DX12 specs, they might opt for more efficient portions of DX11/12 compliant silicon. Off the top of my head, there's always the tessellation unit if they go raw from the RV700 base. That could see a face lift just to be more efficient at what it does.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29863782&postcount=4627
Seeing as how I went back 10+ pages after that and couldn't find the direct quote referenced there, I'm going to assume something big is in this detail. Or I overlooked it in my comb through. Once more, if this is prying too much, just shoot me a message and this all disappears.
While not a direct modification for the sake of meeting DX12 specs, they might opt for more efficient portions of DX11/12 compliant silicon. Off the top of my head, there's always the tessellation unit if they go raw from the RV700 base. That could see a face lift just to be more efficient at what it does.
You would need at least 46MB for 1080p w/ 4xAA and 2x 854x480 displays @8bit/color + 8bit Z-Buffer (which is hardly ever used because of low precision, more likely they use 16 bit => 55MB). Everything is possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You could also fill 100MB with 1080P w/ 4xAA, FP16 color precision and 32bit Z-Buffer.
My guess for WiiU are still 27MB 1T-SRAM that would allow Wii BC and a framebuffer for 720p w/ 4xAA or 1080p w/o AA and 2 tablets (even 4, but this probably won't happen because of other reasons)
Still not believing these 3,5GHz CPU rumors, I am with BP here that this just isn't a design Nintendo would use and my bets are on around 2,2Ghz (maybe with a Turbo)
Now don't get me wrong, I'm no mega graphics whore, but MSAA only being doable on 720 does seem a little out dated doesn't it? Don't the PS3/360 do all that already or is it really a matter of the cost (time) of the process?
Also, can someone clarify what the "1080p rendering in a single pass" means? I'm taking that to mean "1080p with no anti-aliasing"
It means that it doesn't have to tile the picture, like the Xb360 does.
By "single pass", brainstew means without tiling; the process of splitting each frame into smaller chunks and swapping them in and out of the framebuffer and the main memory to render the full frame. The X360 can only do 720p without AA in a single pass. If you want to add AA or render at 1080p, you need to tile the framebuffer (which many devs do). If what brainstew says is true, the Wii U can either do 720p with AA in a single pass or 1080p with no AA in a single pass which is a substantial improvement over the 360. Just like the 360, devs can tile the frame buffer if they want 1080p with AA (and they'll have a much easier time of it too, given the extra RAM).
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The explanation to that is that the amount of GPU-local edram one can expect on the WiiU cannot meet the needs of deferred shading algorithms, not without some form of tiling.
What we can hope for is edram covering a 720p x 4AA or 1080p x 2AA RGBA8 + zs32 backbuffers, which anyway you look at it is 30-34MB. Hence my last 'optimistic' guess in this thread was 40MB (albeit, presented in a 6bit signed int ; )
And this comes from the early dev kit?
The system sounds nice enough for me.
Not to forget, maybe... just maybe... Nintendo still has some
tricks up their sleeve regarding graphics.
Interesting, thanks. I should look this up some more but do thEy achieve this by effectively rendering the camera view with a clipping region that's 1/2 the screen, then swapping and doing the other side?
3 cores dev kit, or final design?
How would he know what Nintendo plans to do in their final design?
I assume console makers give out targets, but dont give developers final designs till
late in the game due to leaks. Especially leaks to the competition.
Im sticking with 4 cores, due to it being a Power7, the adding of the extra controller, and the perception of looking like last gen Xbox 360.
I think what people really seem to not understand is that Wii U games will rarely look ugly in the same way Wii games looked ugly. It'll be a marked step up from the current HD consoles, hopefully rectifying some their graphical shortcommings and hitches.
People aren't going to see the next zelda/starfox/metroid/whatever on Wii U and be like "oh man, look how ugly it is compared to CoD 19" (though they might complain about the lack of blood or tittays)
molekiller
Banned
DirectX 12 on a Nintendo console..? Why? It's not like it will run a Microsoft OS with directx libraries... Correct me if I'm wrong...
Smiles and Cries
Member
What? You guys are going back to old posts now?
this thread is madness!
New leaks please
New leaks please
More likely 3-core POWER7 at moderate clock speed (they're probably still using Xenon in the devkit) with 12 MB EDRAM, a 512 SPU Southern Islands like core with 32 MB EDRAM and 1 GB of mysterious memory. I don't think the final hardware will be much faster than the devkit, just more modern. Shouldn't the devkit be in intended to set some sort of realistic baseline?
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
It should. Though history knows cases of early devkits playing bad jokes on devs *cough* dual 970MP filling in for a Xenon *cough*
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