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[dc89]

Blizz are pretty sad if they are seriously doing this.

Can't they come up with their own name?

 

[Stahsky]

Umm..considering the dates in OP, what does that mean for Dota2? It's supposed to be released this year. Doesn't the court usually 'freezes' such things until the matter is resolved?

We likely won't see any form of release until they finish moving over every hero to a stable build. We got a good deal of time before that will happen.

 

[Ikuu]

However it first appeared on a Blizzard tech and the creator signed those rights over before uploading that game to Blizzard. Blizzard helped fund tournaments and such with that modded game and marketed it, making it a very popular game. Based on that, Blizzard has a pretty decent claim on the Valve DOTA which is pretty much just a re-skin of DotA. Even though the creator of that game signed over the rights to Blizzard and is making the same thing for Valve now, he shouldn't be allowed to create the same game again and exploit those ideas for a rival company. He may have made those gameplay mechanics up but they were all based on Blizzard's technology and made his self known to this niche through it.

My money is on Blizzard.

What tournaments has Blizzard funded, and can I see some of this DotA marketing they released.

Blizzard are mad that they didn't do shit with one of the popular games in the world.

 

[dc89]

Hang on GAF. Am I misunderstanding something here.

What Blizz are trying to do, isn't that like Valve saying 'take that trademark off World of Warcraft because we want to use that name in one of our products'. Am I being simple here, Or is that the crux of it?

 

[AdventureRacing]

Blizzard are mad that they didn't do shit with one of the popular games in the world.

Yep the genre originated from a mod of their game. If they had any foresight and actually put effort into a MOBA game they would have dominated the genre no question (which is now incredibly large). The genre has the potential to eclipse any of blizzards franchises (in fact it may have already). This can't make them happy surely.

 

[Spectrum128]

All this doc says is that they're opposing the trademark. Sorry - don't see a problem with that.

 

[Striek]

Read the filing and the answer, Blizzard makes a decent argument that deserves to be heard, let the courts decide.

 

[OTIX]

DOTA has always been a community project, loads of people have worked on it, there have been forks and in the end the game is the better for it. Noone is solely responsible for building the DOTA brand and thus noone has the right (morally) to trademark DOTA for themselves, not Eul, not Icefrog, not Blizzard, and certainly not Valve. It belongs

Spoiler

in a museum

to everyone.

I'm as much of a Valve fan as the next person and greatly looking forward to the game, but filing for the trademark is a dick move.

 

[Stahsky]

DotA 2 is really good. They will keep the name, and not a single person will care after this is all over. We will be too busy playing it.

 

[Midou]

Read the filing and the answer, Blizzard makes a decent argument that deserves to be heard, let the courts decide.

An awful lot of spin too though:

"Valve did so for the purpose of appropriating Blizzard's goodwill in the DOTA Marks and in order to confuse consumers"

Is the case legit? Sure. Do they make good points? Yes. Should they have maybe tried to do this when the game was first announced and not months into the beta right as the game is just about done? Obviously.

I'm sure the whole waiting part is what is considered more scumbag at this point. I also don't see how it's any loss of business or anything for them. Most of it is them going back and fourth how people associate DOTA with Blizzard and how their goodwill this whole time prevented them from licencing it themselves. Well sucks to you Blizzard.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

First images from the courtroom

 

[NoirVisage]

First images from the courtroom

i don't approve of this position they've put themselves in..
Which is Blizzard and which is Valve?

 

[Amir0x]

Blizzard...man. blizzard we need to talk

 

[Druz]

did they hire those who made WC3 and B.net, which obviously and without doubt was the only reason DotA became as popular as it is now?

DotA wasn't the sole creation of Ice Frog or Eul, its success was heavily dependent on the assets of Blizzard and WC3 creation tool and also B.Net popularity.

Would DotA become nearly as popular if it was an Age of Empires map? (well, not that it was possible to begin with).

Thats stretching it like crazy. Wow.

 

[fresquito]

DOTA has always been a community project, loads of people have worked on it, there have been forks and in the end the game is the better for it. Noone is solely responsible for building the DOTA brand and thus noone has the right (morally) to trademark DOTA for themselves, not Eul, not Icefrog, not Blizzard, and certainly not Valve. It belongs

Spoiler

in a museum

to everyone.

I'm as much of a Valve fan as the next person and greatly looking forward to the game, but filing for the trademark is a dick move.

Yeah, because releasing a game comercially without trademarking the brand is the usual thing...

Valve was clever and now Blizzard are butt hurt because they were late to the party, even when the party was going on for years just in front of their own house. I don't think the community is very upset because Valve trademarked the brand, as long as the product is good, which seems to be the case. In fact, I think the majority of people is very excited about the project. I don't see anyone losing here, except for Blizzard.

 

[Moaradin]

Blizzard was just late to the party and missed out a huge opportunity to make more money. They see DOTA games are becoming just as large as SC2, and may even pass it soon. They want dat increased cash flow, and nobody is gonna play their shitty SC2 mod dota over dota 2.

 

[turk128]

If Valve somehow loses, I hope they rename it The Real DOTA 2.

 

[Kayo-kun]

I believe Valve have done a fantastic job with Dota 2 and I have very high hopes. Valve's Dota 2 is the ultimate Dota game and it's Blizzard's fault for completely ignoring the genre and the community for so long. I love how bitter and salty Blizzard gets over this, I suppose they learned their lesson.

 

[RaGMasTeR90]

I love Blizzard and all their games but they are so dumb. They are so jealous cause they were to dumb to recognize how awesome DOTA is and its their own fault not to hire Icefrog. Epic fail if you ask me.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

But I thought they were the best of friends?

I hope VALVe wins this one.

 

[questionmark]

DOTA has always been a community project, loads of people have worked on it, there have been forks and in the end the game is the better for it. Noone is solely responsible for building the DOTA brand and thus noone has the right (morally) to trademark DOTA for themselves, not Eul, not Icefrog, not Blizzard, and certainly not Valve. It belongs

Spoiler

in a museum

to everyone.

I'm as much of a Valve fan as the next person and greatly looking forward to the game, but filing for the trademark is a dick move.

Do you believe that Half-Life belongs to everyone who ever worked on it at Valve, even the ones who are no longer employed there?

 

[derFeef]

Do you believe that Half-Life belongs to everyone who ever worked on it at Valve, even the ones who are no longer employed there?

- Commercial product
- Non-commercial product

 

[questionmark]

- Commercial product
- Non-commercial product

Both products. The notion that Eul who came up with the name does not have the right to it is incomprehensible to me.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Someone made a Warcraft 3 custom map called Defense of the Ancients.

Valve later hired that person and also a person who curated the mod for years afterwards.

They trademarked the word "DOTA" and called their game DOTA 2.

Blizzard sues Valve over this.

edit: apparently i suck balls and im not up to date with recent developments =/

Wrong.

Eul made Defense of the Ancients. Valve didn't hire him.

Guinsoo was one of many Dota copycats for TFT, but since Eul didn't update the map for TFT it ended up becoming the de facto Dota. He also tweaked the gameplay heavily. Guinsoo works for Riot Games.

After Guinsoo quit updating the map, he eventually was succeeded by Icefrog. Valve hired Icefrog.

 

[questionmark]

Wrong.

Eul made Defense of the Ancients. Valve didn't hire him.

Guinsoo was one of many Dota copycats for TFT, but since Eul didn't update the map for TFT it ended up becoming the de facto Dota. He also tweaked the gameplay heavily. Guinsoo works for Riot Games.

After Guinsoo quit updating the map, he eventually was succeeded by Icefrog. Valve hired Icefrog.

And Eul.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

And Eul.

Oh, what the heck?

Guess working at Valve beats being a physical therapist ;D

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Honestly not sure what to believe, a much more decisive issue (going by this thread) than most...

 

[transience]

This seems like they're trying to delay the release of DOTA 2 more than anything.

I wonder what Blizzard is hoping to accomplish here -- they're not losing money if they're not making a MOBA-type game. Maybe they have something in the works. (probably not)

 

[Belgorim]

Both products. The notion that Eul who came up with the name does not have the right to it is incomprehensible to me.

You should maybe work on looking at things from different viewpoints if you find that incomprehensible

This seems like they're trying to delay the release of DOTA 2 more than anything.

I wonder what Blizzard is hoping to accomplish here -- they're not losing money if they're not making a MOBA-type game. Maybe they have something in the works. (probably not)

Everyone already knows they have Blizzard DOTA in the works. Of course they don't want Valve to trademark DOTA in that case. They might have no issue with valve trademarking something like "Valve's Dota" or something else.

 

[Krilekk]

I can't see Blizzard winning this. It might not be so clear that the IP belongs to Valve now, but it sure as hell doesn't belong to Blizzard just because it was a mod for their game. If Blizzard had created the mod, sure. But they didn't.

 

[HK-47]

I never understood how a game made using Blizz assets, Blizz lore, and Blizz Engine could be licensed by Valve. Has Blizz Sued Riot? Valve could have avoided this by not trademarking the game.

Cause the new game doesnt have blizzard lore, engine or assets and they never trademarked it?

 

[injurai]

Yeah but Valve didn't claim the acronym DOTA, they have Dota as an independent noun. I though Valve had already won this. In fact, blizzard publicly gave Valve their blessings. Is this another Mojang V. Bethesda?

 

[Skeyser]

Blizzard was just late to the party and missed out a huge opportunity to make more money. They see DOTA games are becoming just as large as SC2, and may even pass it soon. They want dat increased cash flow, and nobody is gonna play their shitty SC2 mod dota over dota 2.

Yeah it's insane how fast LoL is growing, last tournament I watched had 100k live viewers.

 

[Zen]

I can't see Blizzard winning this. It might not be so clear that the IP belongs to Valve now, but it sure as hell doesn't belong to Blizzard just because it was a mod for their game. If Blizzard had created the mod, sure. But they didn't.

Blizzard isn't trying to obtain the rights to Dota, they're trying to protect it from being commercialized when Valve has little right to title their MOBA game 'Dota 2'. They aren't sueing Valve, they're attempting to block the trademarking, and good for them.

Dota should be public domain, period. To many individuals have participated in its success and iterated it in various seperate directions for any one company or individual to be able to claim ownership. That's why Pendragon and Guinsoo called their stand alone product League of Legends instead of calling it something like 'Dota AllStars 2'.

 

[Archie]

What a mess. I can see Blizzard's argument, but I personally disagree with it.

Blizzard isn't trying to obtain the rights to Dota, they're trying to protect it from being commercialized by Valve when Valve has little right to title their MOBA game 'Dota 2'.

Dota should be public domain, period. To many individuals have participated in its success and itterated it in various seperate directions for any one company or individual to be able to claim ownership. That's why Pendragon and Guinsoo called their stand alone product League of Legends instead of calling it something like 'Dota AllStars 2'.

To be fair, they weren't shy about using the DotA name on the retail box

 

[Ikuu]

You don't hire the remaining developer of Dota, after everyone else whom has contributed just as much and more, and say that means you can trademark Dota and make Dota 2.

They also hired the original creator, Eul.

 

[scytheavatar]

Yeah but Valve didn't claim the acronym DOTA, they have Dota as an independent noun. I though Valve had already won this. In fact, blizzard publicly gave Valve their blessings. Is this another Mojang V. Bethesda?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102870-DotA-Creators-Counter-File-Trademark-Against-Valve

Not quite sure why everyone thinks that Blizzard are the villians trying to sue Valve out of nowhere, this has been brewing for a while already. I think Valve is the one who are the villans, Blizzard isn't trying to claim the DOTA name as much as they are trying to prevent it from falling in Valve's hands.

They also hired the original creator, Eul.

That doesn't necessarily give him the right to the Dota trademark. Blizzard isn't wrong in saying that the Dota brand is strongly linked to the Warcraft III brand and if that guy wanted to own the Dota name he shouldn't have released it as a fan mod for a commercial game in the first place.

 

[transience]

Everyone already knows they have Blizzard DOTA in the works. Of course they don't want Valve to trademark DOTA in that case. They might have no issue with valve trademarking something like "Valve's Dota" or something else.

Even if it happens, it won't release until, say, 2015 at the very earliest. Blizzcon is canceled this year which means it likely wouldn't be unveiled this year, Blizzard is notorious for overdeveloping its games until they're perfect and they've already got three full projects going on (WOW expansion, D3, SC2-2, plus the likely console port of D3). They have the resources and the money to do it, obviously, but I don't think Blizzard will be rushed into doing it.

 

[Guesong]

Thank you Blizzard for protecting consumers.

Indeed.

One can easily see how a poor, single mom would venture into DotA2, after having launched Steam, and seeing a black dude with a Valve plugged into his head, and mistakingly believes she's playing a Blizzard game.

Imagine when she eventually find out the truth! She'd be devastated!

 

[HK-47]

Some part of me hopes Blizzard makes some progress on this. Ideally enough that Dota 2 has to get rid of the lazy naming and lack of creativity for the champions.

I know they are just carried over but that doesn't make them good.

The only moba that rivals Dota for hero creativity is HoN and Dota is better balanced.

 

[Ikuu]

Even if it happens, it won't release until, say, 2015 at the very earliest. Blizzcon is canceled this year which means it likely wouldn't be unveiled this year, Blizzard is notorious for overdeveloping its games until they're perfect and they've already got three full projects going on (WOW expansion, D3, SC2-2, plus the likely console port of D3). They have the resources and the money to do it, obviously, but I don't think Blizzard will be rushed into doing it.

Blizzard DotA is just a mod for SC2, funnily enough they're just using the name to get more publicity and the game plays nothing like Dota.

 

[Zen]

How do you figure it plays nothing like Dota? Blizzard Dota certainly seems simpler, but they're clearly similar enough in play and interface that everyone from your average gamer to a Lol/Hon/Dota player can see the clear similarities.

To be fair, they weren't shy about using the DotA name on the retail box

Well yeah, but they were the creators of Dota AllStars, or am I missing something here?

They also hired the original creator, Eul.

But does that really give him the right to everything that is Dota for a non commericial product? If he wanted true ownership, then why use all of Blizzards assets, engine, likenesses? Because that, legally, makes things very foggy.

 

[HK-47]

Well Dota 2 is going to kill the remaining Defense of the Ancients community, so yes. It does matter. If you like playing DOTA but not Dota 2 then you're going to lose out on a lot actually.

lol

just lol

 

[HK-47]

You do realise that once he stops doing so, it most probably will mean that no one else will be able to?

To put it in perspective, if Valve has done it before Ice Frog entering the DotA scene, it would have meant that Ice Frog would never be able to put up a getdota.com, and Valve would be free to sue Blizzard or GG Client or any other entity that they could somehow see making money out of the game; even though most of the community never paid anything for playing DotA?

What Valve is trying to do is: "Hey, DotA community, if you want your community to survive, you have to move to DotA 2, or just be at the whim of us till we allow Ice Frog to maintain the Original DotA. And, oh, of course you will not be able to create a DotA mod for SC2 or WC4 or any other game, cause we will be suing the owner of those games,even if your mod is free"

Most of the dota community is glad to be rescued from an aging engine and mod tools put out by a dev that barely deigned to notice their existence. Now Dota has a secure future, especially with Icefrog, whose ability to balance is highly respected by the community, which is extremely rare in competitive games. The game is an extremely faithful remake to boot. The community isnt crying out for justice over Valve. Also Icefrog plans to continue updating the original mod as long as there is demand for it.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

Valve trademarked it already. Don't really see Blizzard winning this.

 

[Zzoram]

Um, Blizzard had 7 years to hire the guys working on DOTA. They chose not to. Blizzard also did ZERO promotion of DOTA.



I have to support Valve on this one.

 

[Zzoram]

Blizzard DotA is just a mod for SC2, funnily enough they're just using the name to get more publicity and the game plays nothing like Dota.

Yup, and not only that, they're stealing the DOTA name from the community because they didn't hire anyone who actually worked on DOTA to make Blizzard DOTA.

Valve hired the main guy working on DOTA for years, the guy responsible for making DOTA the game it became, so I would say they have the most legitimate claim to the name.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

gaben: [laughs]

 

[kagete]

Well this was inevitable. My ideal resolution would be for the court to decide that "DOTA" is now the ubiquitous name of the genre so we can get rid of calling everything "MOBAs" and any game company can come into the field and bring fresh ideas into the genre.

DOTA games I would love, love, love to play:

Titan DOTA - preview video coming in 2013, won't be released till 2020
DOTA Guild Wars - also releasing in 2020
Diablo 3 DOTA - coming in 2015 expansion
Maple DOTA - already in development
Skylanders DOTA - monthly character releases starting in 2013. Figures will cost $25 each
Fate Stay DOTA - will release with VN and eroge in 2014
Super Smash DOTA - WiiU 2015, that extra screen will be interesting for item/skill use
Zynga DOTA - just to get my mom into the genre
Lineage DOTA - takes only 2 minutes to get from level 1 to 2, but will require an hour of grinding to go from 24 to 25
Mechwarrior Mercenaries DOTA - my dream game. I would design my living space around a cockpit and spend all my leisure time playing this game for at least 10 years.

 

[Stallion Free]

why would valve put so much effort into the game if they didn't have a bullet proof defense?