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[aeolist]

I know Kinect hardware has been pretty successful for MS but as someone who doesn't own a 360 I'm curious to know how the software is selling.

Are third parties heavily on board? Has the quality of the software gone up since launch? (I tried Kinect Sports and Adventures on a demo unit once and both felt really laggy and bad to me)

Double Fine Happy Action Theater looks really interesting and I think that digital toys like that may be the real future of Kinect. How cool would a music toy like Electroplankton be on that platform?

 

[mboojigga]

Software isn't the only thing that makes Kinect popular. It is intergrated with the dashboard and everyday use. Some people can bring up their personal experiences and say they don't use the voice or hand gestures. My family and I use Kinect for that and the games. Kinect Sports(2) work just fine in our setup. Dance Central(2), Fruit Ninja Kinect are the games we play. Also works great with Forza. My mother went out on launch day to buy a 250gb Kinect bundle just for the games and features and she is 58 and normally plays Sims on her laptop.

I think the last year has shown how popular Kinect is among family and friends. It was very popular when I was deployed when it launched. I was a beta tester before I deployed and had the whole base playing it.

 

[Criminal Upper]

I don't think so. At all...considering since Microsoft themselves is only pushing gimmicky Kinect functionality in big recent titles, Forza, Mass Effect, Ghost Recon, etc they're letting smaller publishers push shovelware out the door for the Kinect, and as we've seen, that's not nearly enough to sustain the fickle family market.

 

[Somnid]

I think some of the software would be considered decent selling at least given the quality (Dance Games and Kinect Sports). Nothing to my knowledge has really broken an NPD top 10 or anything. Certainly some third parties are on board especially as something considered up and coming. However I'd be wary of anything long term simply because of the generation change and the lack of real break-out titles.

Kinect as a device might see some more interesting application once the Windows SDK launches and it can be used for more business and commercial applications though. There's also talk of embedding it in future ultra-books.

 

[Alx]

Since they managed to put all those kinects into different living rooms, you can say that they did put their foot in the door, but they may not be inside just yet.
I didn't really follow software sales, but as far as support is concerned, it depends on the game genres : the first batch of games was about mini-games and dancing (Dance Central, Dance Masters, Kinect Sports...), the second is more about games for kids (Disney, Sesame Street, Action theater, and even the Star Wars Game), shooting (Child of Eden, the "puppet on a string"...) XBLA games (Fruit Ninja). And more dancing.

So as a whole, yes it's still targeting the family games. But if rumors are true, the 3rd generation of kinect games will be unveiled on E3. So we shall see what they'll look like.

 

[aeolist]

I think some of the software would be considered decent selling at least given the quality (Dance Games and Kinect Sports). Nothing to my knowledge has really broken an NPD top 10 or anything. Certainly some third parties are on board especially as something considered up and coming. However I'd be wary of anything long term simply because of the generation change and the lack of real break-out titles.

Kinect as a device might see some more interesting application once the Windows SDK launches and it can be used for more business and commercial applications though. There's also talk of embedding it in future ultra-books.

I think the Windows SDK is out now, though Microsoft made some fairly stupid decisions regarding that release. It's also pretty funny that they're trying to take credit for enabling neat applications for the hardware when originally they tried to keep anyone from hacking it.

PC Kinect is definitely the most interesting thing to me though, and with Windows 8 I'm sure they'll be more interested in having cross platform games with the 360/720 (thanks to the 30% cut for them).

 

[Stumpokapow]

Disneyland Adventures is an absolute triumph as far as this stuff is concerned, as is Once Upon a Monster. I can't speak to how well either have sold, but based solely on quality I refuse to believe anyone in their target audience would see them and not go ga-ga for them.

I don't think so. At all...considering since Microsoft themselves is only pushing gimmicky Kinect functionality in big recent titles, Forza, Mass Effect, Ghost Recon, etc they're letting smaller publishers push shovelware out the door for the Kinect, and as we've seen, that's not nearly enough to sustain the fickle family market.

They are about to publish Disney-Pixar Rush. They just published Disneyland Adventures. They are about to publish Star Wars (which looks like shit, in contrast to the rest of their family-friendly Kinect offerings, but it's still significant from a high profile perspective). They just published Kinect Sports 2. They just distributed/published/whatever Dance Central 2. They provided quite a bit of support to Once Upon a Monster although I think WB formally published it. They just bought Twisted Pixel after they released Gunstringer--now we're starting to get to the outer bounds of "family friendly".

I think you can accuse Microsoft of a lot of things, but not putting first-party effort behind family friendly Kinect games is not one of them

 

[Bioloff]

I think the sales speak for themselves.


Kinect was extremely successful, globally, and will continue to be a focus with Microsoft.

 

[aeolist]

I think the sales speak for themselves.


Kinect was extremely successful, globally, and will continue to be a focus with Microsoft.

I know about hardware sales, do you have any software numbers?

And yes, I know Kinect is overall successful for MS. I'm sure it'll be even more successful next gen when it's built into the console and they have a single store for releasing cross-platform console/PC games, also when they've improved the hardware to reduce lag etc. This is not a stealth troll "olol Kinect is shit" thread, I genuinely want to know how much of an impact it's having.

 

[Postman]

It is enough for them to push it very very hard. I just hope it does not totally influence the xbox next development.

 

[bigtroyjon]

I think the Windows SDK is out now, though Microsoft made some fairly stupid decisions regarding that release. It's also pretty funny that they're trying to take credit for enabling neat applications for the hardware when originally they tried to keep anyone from hacking it.

PC Kinect is definitely the most interesting thing to me though, and with Windows 8 I'm sure they'll be more interested in having cross platform games with the 360/720 (thanks to the 30% cut for them).

PC Kinect isn't for games, it's for commercial applications and research stuff.

 

[Duxxy3]

I think the sales speak for themselves.


Kinect was extremely successful, globally*, and will continue to be a focus with Microsoft.

*outside of japan

 

[Stumpokapow]

I know about hardware sales, do you have any software numbers?

And yes, I know Kinect is overall successful for MS. I'm sure it'll be even more successful next gen when it's built into the console and they have a single store for releasing cross-platform console/PC games, also when they've improved the hardware to reduce lag etc. This is not a stealth troll "olol Kinect is shit" thread, I genuinely want to know how much of an impact it's having.

Kinect Sports is around 2 million in the US, Dance Central is close to 2 million in the US, Dance Central 2 is around 1 million in the US, Kinect Sports 2 is around 1 million in the US, Just Dance 3 should be over a million in the US right now, Fruit Ninja XBLA just passed a half-million (not clear if this is US or worldwide). All of these figures are either based on confirmed press releases, individual Kinect software numbers that have been provided, top lists with other known numbers, or independent confirmations by NPD subscribers.

I don't have any figures for Disneyland, Once Upon a Monster, The Gunstringer, Joy Ride, or Kinectimals. I would guess around a half million for Kinectimals and Joy Ride, and probably a little less for Disneyland Adventures so far. I would say Gunstringer is at or below 100k.

 

[aeolist]

PC Kinect isn't for games, it's for commercial applications and research stuff.

PC Kinect will be for games when Windows 8 comes out. It's their stated goal to have a unified platform (Windows Phone 8 will be using the same kernel and runtime as Windows 8, 720 will undoubtedly do the same) and they're already talking about Xbox retail and XBLA games coming out on the Windows Store. They want devs to be able to write a game or app once and have it on all of their screens.

 

[Somnid]

I think the Windows SDK is out now, though Microsoft made some fairly stupid decisions regarding that release. It's also pretty funny that they're trying to take credit for enabling neat applications for the hardware when originally they tried to keep anyone from hacking it.

PC Kinect is definitely the most interesting thing to me though, and with Windows 8 I'm sure they'll be more interested in having cross platform games with the 360/720 (thanks to the 30% cut for them).

I think the official version hits the 21st of this month but it's been in Beta for quite some time. They also didn't really prevent people from hacking it, but early MS driver support greatly lagged the open source alternatives.

edit: It was a dumb idea to segment the hardware into 2 distinct versions.

 

[aeolist]

I think the official version hits the 21st of this month but it's been in Beta for quite some time. They also didn't really prevent people from hacking it, but early MS driver support greatly lagged the open source alternatives.

http://mashable.com/2010/11/20/microsoft-kinect-hacks/

Initially, Microsoft was not pleased with the popularity of Kinect hacking. “With Kinect, Microsoft built in numerous hardware and software safeguards designed to reduce the chances of product tampering,” the company said in a statement to CNET on the day of the device’s U.S. launch. “Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant.

They've done an about-face since which is smart but there's also the fact that it's $250 on Windows, and this:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...nect-for-windows-but-splits-its-community.ars

Developers can't use open drivers or the cheaper Xbox Kinect for commercial projects. Plus, as the moniker "Kinect for Windows" suggests, they're required to use it on machines running Windows 7 or 8. Finally, even noncommercial projects—still officially permitted on the Xbox Kinect devices—aren't licensed to use software other than Microsoft's official commercial SDK to write code for the Kinect for Windows hardware.

 

[Stumpokapow]

PC Kinect will be for games when Windows 8 comes out. It's their stated goal to have a unified platform (Windows Phone 8 will be using the same kernel and runtime as Windows 8, 720 will undoubtedly do the same) and they're already talking about Xbox retail and XBLA games coming out on the Windows Store. They want devs to be able to write a game or app once and have it on all of their screens.

This won't be possible simply on a logistical level. Pick any Xbox 360 Kinect game. Enumerate the primary control gestures and actions. Now pretend that exact game runs on PC. Will players be able to do the gestures and actions you've just chosen?

Here's a small subset of Kinect Adventures:
- Arm and leg tracking (kicking/hitting balls) -- Can't be done while seated
- Lateral movement up to 4-6 feet -- Can't be done while seated
- Jumping -- Can't be done while seated
- Squatting -- Can't be done while seated.

Here's a small subset of Haunt:
- Walking in place -- Can't be done while seated.
- Dodging left or right -- Can maybe be done while seated.
- Punching -- can be done while seated, but not while within arm's length+ of monitor.

So just from a game design point of view, the top 10 Kinect titles out there are not likely to be compatible with the PC Kinect, even if there were no technical barriers. I don't think this precludes people from making games that could run on both 360 and PC using Kinect, but most of Kinect's success so far in terms of software has been from games that couldn't.

 

[ZAK]

Supposedly, "families" (read: casuals) are so fickle that it's impossible to "get your foot in the door." You can sell to them, and you can do it well, but you can't have their loyalty.

So I've heard, anyway.

 

[Alx]

I think the official version hits the 21st of this month but it's been in Beta for quite some time. They also didn't really prevent people from hacking it, but early MS driver support greatly lagged the open source alternatives.

edit: It was a dumb idea to segment the hardware into 2 distinct versions.

The commercial SDK has been officially available since February 1st.
And yeah, they didn't really try to prevent people from hacking the hardware part. If they had wanted to, they would at least have encoded the data in a non-obvious way (the raw data format sent through USB is completely standard, that's why it took less than one day to code the first unofficial driver).
They don't need to anyway, their know-how is in the software.

 

[Postman]

Supposedly, "families" (read: casuals) are so fickle that it's impossible to "get your foot in the door." You can sell to them, and you can do it well, but you can't have their loyalty.

So I've heard, anyway.

The masses are more susceptible to economic fluctuations and to most a game system is a game system.

 

[bigtroyjon]

http://mashable.com/2010/11/20/microsoft-kinect-hacks/



They've done an about-face since which is smart but there's also the fact that it's $250 on Windows, and this:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...nect-for-windows-but-splits-its-community.ars

They were talking about hacking as in hacking the actual hardware. Not making a driver to use it with a computer which they had no issue with.

And the PC Kinect isn't for games. It's for the various commercial applications that people have been developing like bank ATM stuff and the operating room thing.

 

[Somnid]

http://mashable.com/2010/11/20/microsoft-kinect-hacks/

They've done an about-face since which is smart but there's also the fact that it's $250 on Windows, and this:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...nect-for-windows-but-splits-its-community.ars

Well yeah, they want people on their official platform and not the open source drivers because they want you using Microsoft development tools and they probably want to keep it Windows exclusive. They didn't shut down any of the open-kinect community, they instead gave them what they wanted.

This won't be possible simply on a logistical level. Pick any Xbox 360 Kinect game. Enumerate the primary control gestures and actions. Now pretend that exact game runs on PC. Will players be able to do the gestures and actions you've just chosen?

Here's a small subset of Kinect Adventures:
- Arm and leg tracking (kicking/hitting balls) -- Can't be done while seated
- Lateral movement up to 4-6 feet -- Can't be done while seated
- Jumping -- Can't be done while seated
- Squatting -- Can't be done while seated.

Here's a small subset of Haunt:
- Walking in place -- Can't be done while seated.
- Dodging left or right -- Can maybe be done while seated.
- Punching -- can be done while seated, but not while within arm's length+ of monitor.

So just from a game design point of view, the top 10 Kinect titles out there are not likely to be compatible with the PC Kinect, even if there were no technical barriers. I don't think this precludes people from making games that could run on both 360 and PC using Kinect, but most of Kinect's success so far in terms of software has been from games that couldn't.

This sounds kinda like a "comfy couch" argument. I think the idea of a Kinect-centric computer is that it naturally changes the way you interact with it. Even then, I play all games on my PC screen, I just move the chair back for motion-controlled ones.

 

[highrider]

yes it has, without question. but that market just isn't going to be loyal. it's inherently fickle and would be easily swayed by the next hot item.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Well someone had to buy the million plus Dance Central 2s and Kinect Sports 2s. Also assuming most of those people played/bought the first one and were happy enough to get another. Then stuff like Once upon a monster/gunstringer/double fines not a game/fruit ninja are all playable by anyone and not shovel ware like some of the trolls in this thread have suggested.


That said voice integration is my only interest in any of the games I play, but at least they aren't shoehorning it into "normal" games and fucking up my experience like waggle in Donkey Kong Country etc.

 

[AgentP]

I think the sales speak for themselves.


Kinect was extremely successful, globally, and will continue to be a focus with Microsoft.

So I won't need to save any money for the next xbox, got it.

 

[Sydle]

Most definitely a foot in the door with popular franchises like Dance Central and Kinect Sports, sleepers like Kinectimals and Disneyland Adventures, as well as fun mini-games like Fruit Ninja have certainly established appeal among casuals. They have a long way to go before they're a bigger part of the family game room.

 

[onipex]

They may have a foot in the door ,but it means nothing going into next gen.

 

[Kyon]

With how fickle the casual audience is, no.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

They may have a foot in the door ,but it means nothing going into next gen.

It actually means a lot not having your brand associated exclusively with shooters and other core genres anymore.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'd say its definitely gotten their foot in the door but its still very possible for them to bungle things and pull it out again if they don't handle things properly next gen.

 

[MC Safety]

I don't understand the question.

Family titles are almost always multiplatform, and it's not as if publishers are steadfastly refusing to release these games on Xbox because of some real (or perceived) audience.

Kinect has made it possible for a specific type of family game to be released on the system, but it's not as if it's the Xbox' portal into this genre.

 

[Baconsammy]

They may have a foot in the door ,but it means nothing going into next gen.

Of course it means something. The only way it doesn't mean anything is if they abandon the tech, which they clearly aren't going to do. Kinect has been a huge hit for them.

 

[Tomasooie]

This sounds kinda like a "comfy couch" argument. I think the idea of a Kinect-centric computer is that it naturally changes the way you interact with it. Even then, I play all games on my PC screen, I just move the chair back for motion-controlled ones.

Perhaps you could, but standing 8 feet away from a computer monitor would be unfeasible for most people.

 

[Stumpokapow]

This sounds kinda like a "comfy couch" argument. I think the idea of a Kinect-centric computer is that it naturally changes the way you interact with it.

It is a comfy couch argument, except this time it's correct. The reason why the comfy couch argument is wrong is because it presumes something about an individual user; if you want to PC game on your couch, you can, just set it up the right way. Saying "I don't want to play PC games because I can't sit on my couch" is silly.

This argument presumes something about the aggregate target audience, which is factual. Most people playing games on PC are not playing games on a couch. So when you make a game that cannot be played in a chair at a desk (or on a laptop or netbook), you are alienating your audience. It's a mismatch. Not least of which because if someone wanted to play Kinect games on their TV, the most logical and cheapest route by far would be to... do it like they have to do it right now, on a 360.

You seem to be implying that Microsoft plans an initiative to get people to put Kinect-enabled PCs in their living room for purposes including games, entertainment, and applications. You are correct, except the push is called Xbox 360 Kinect, nothing to do with PC devices.

Even then, I play all games on my PC screen, I just move the chair back for motion-controlled ones.

Forgive my skepticism, but I doubt you're moving your chair back far enough to stand up and have significant room for leg mobility on both sides of you. If you do, I highly doubt that you represent a large enough group to cause a market shift--DDR for PC and Guitar Hero for PC both hit with a thud, and both require less space and a less restrictive arrangement than Kinect for PC will.

I think Kinect for PC has a lot of opportunities, but not to replicate the same games as Kinect in your living room.

 

[Postman]

That is true I purposely created my gaming room to be exactly wide enough to be able to recline but still be close to my tv and there is not a single game I can play using my Kinect in this fashion.

 

[onipex]

Of course it means something. The only way it doesn't mean anything is if they abandon the tech, which they clearly aren't going to do. Kinect has been a huge hit for them.

Its a hit but they still haven't been able to totally take the market while being the only ones putting in any real effort at the moment.Makes me wonder what happens when the family console campany starts rolling out their next gen hardware and software.
Success from one gen does not always translate into success for the next gen. The family market will be up for grabs again and then it will be a real fight.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They've gotten their foot in the door for sure, but I don't think it's had much staying power with the audience they are targeting. Most of the success is hardware bundle based, as the software sales aren't lighting up the charts.

And the success isn't catapulting them anywhere near the phenomenon of the Wii in terms of both hardware and software sales.

I think a lot of new buyers see it as an interesting novelty that they might as well try out when they get their 360s, but then quickly just sort of ignore it thereafter.

Hopefully with the next Microsoft platform they can manage to make the technology more meaningful for games (as Kinect is pretty neat, but very superficial), but I somewhat doubt it.

 

[elcranky]

I don't think so. At all...considering since Microsoft themselves is only pushing gimmicky Kinect functionality in big recent titles, Forza, Mass Effect, Ghost Recon, etc they're letting smaller publishers push shovelware out the door for the Kinect, and as we've seen, that's not nearly enough to sustain the fickle family market.

It is grossly unfair to call the ME use gimmicky. If it works as advertised (early reports say yes), the Kinect will radically change the game play, at least for me. Voice control makes grenades and move commands viable for regular use and greatly expands squad power usage without the wheel.

 

[Afrikan]

foot? HA! how about their ass as well....they are basically in.

a few years ago, I had friends, who weren't gamers, always telling me that they were looking forward to getting a PS3 that they saw at my place. I used to tell them, ok that's good if yall need any games I have some you could borrow. But as time went on, a friend here another friend there....popped up telling me about their 360 and Kinect, and asked if I had any games lol.

anyway, they had new HD TVs as well, and I asked how come they didn't end up getting PS3s for their HDTVs for BluRay and all. And to sum it up, a recent friend basically gave me a store representative answer. and said because it would be for his wife as well. I understood that, and I would've recommended a 360 and Kinect if I knew wifey wanted to join in on the fun. But it was his answer that was funny, so I straight up asked him, are you repeating what the rep said to you? and he giggled.

so..

MS investing in Kinect tech and its no controller approach.
MS marketing the hell out of it
and store reps helping sell the system.

it has all worked out perfect for them, imo. Sure it might not have staying power if the games are not there, but this gen is almost over and a newer version of Kinect most likely will bring back the casual market to MS's next system.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Disneyland Adventures is an absolute triumph as far as this stuff is concerned, as is Once Upon a Monster. I can't speak to how well either have sold, but based solely on quality I refuse to believe anyone in their target audience would see them and not go ga-ga for them.

From my personal experience, these two were a surprising failure with having two kids trying them out. I had my two nieces over; one is five and a half and the other is three and a half. They have a Wii at home but not a Kinect.

They had trouble grasping all the precision required to play the game and the kinect kept confusing them since they were standing close to each other. They kept throwing both arms up to dance with the monsters in sesame street and it kept throwing up a screen that confused all of us why it was coming up randomly until I learned from Disneyland that both arms up mean pause. Seems silly for a kids game. Any time I tried to help them it would then detect me and not them and throw it all off. At least on the wii I could set it up and help them play.

It was surprisingly a terrible and frustrating experience. They got bored. I know it's totally anecdotal but I was not prepared for how bad it was.

 

[CountAntonius]

Having game nights with my family most of whom have never touched gaming proves they are onto something. Dance Central has become a regular family night activity.

 

[Baconsammy]

Having game nights with my family most of whom have never touched gaming proves they are onto something. Dance Central has become a regular family night activity.

Yep, the Kinect was a huge hit this past holiday season at family gatherings. I'm loving ME3 with it (not a gimmick at all), and my daughter plays the crap outa Dance Central, Kinectimals, and Just Dance. My wife uses it daily for workouts. Microsoft definitely has a huge hit on their hands with casuals. As more of a core gamer, I haven't found much to love yet.

 

[Nickodamus Rex]

It is You seem to be implying that Microsoft plans an initiative to get people to put Kinect-enabled PCs in their living room for purposes including games, entertainment, and applications. You are correct, except the push is called Xbox 360 Kinect, nothing to do with PC devices.

I dunno, I see this as a feasible strategy for some PC makers and pubs putting out Kinect software on the PC, to get together and make a mainstream push into the HTPC realm. Like Alienware and Bioware getting together to push that console with mass Effect 3 and Kinect. MS prob wouldn't like that, though, they'd probably cock-block it anyway, wouldn't they...

Of course MS wants us to buy a Windows 8 pc and PC Kinect for productivity applications, and 360 and 'game' Kinect in our living rooms (with a slice of Windows phone on the side, to check our spreadsheets and leaderboards on the go) so I agree they will make it a point to separate the two, with little to no push for gaming on PC Kinect.

Well, I'd still very much like to see it, anyway. Would feel like such under-utilization of the kinect tech, especially with so many talented devs in the PC-only space that could do some amazing things with it, knowing how mant HTPC-ers that are out there (self included, I haven't PC gamed at a desk for at least the past 5 years)

 

[Kyle549]

From my personal experience, these two were a surprising failure with having two kids trying them out. I had my two nieces over; one is five and a half and the other is three and a half. They have a Wii at home but not a Kinect.

They had trouble grasping all the precision required to play the game and the kinect kept confusing them since they were standing close to each other. They kept throwing both arms up to dance with the monsters in sesame street and it kept throwing up a screen that confused all of us why it was coming up randomly until I learned from Disneyland that both arms up mean pause. Seems silly for a kids game. Any time I tried to help them it would then detect me and not them and throw it all off. At least on the wii I could set it up and help them play.

It was surprisingly a terrible and frustrating experience. They got bored. I know it's totally anecdotal but I was not prepared for how bad it was.

I have three Kinect games to entertain my 3 year old.

Once Upon A Monster & Disneyland Adventures are fun for her to watch and passively play along with, but I still have to play lead.

The only game she has been able to play by herself (mostly) is Nickelodeon Dance, which she can by herself with minimal guidance. She doesn't always get all of the menus, but does enough for to feel like she's playing without me helping.

That said, the Kinect has brought our XBox into the living room as more of a family entertainment system, not limited to my late-night f/p shooters.