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[tkscz]

This also begs the question, what will a game look/ run like if a dev doesn't use/ use little of the controller? Say a dev makes a game where the controller is used only as inventory. It never is used in a way that makes it so that the controller runs full 3D polys, texture, shaders etc etc. or if a dev makes a game that doesn't use the tablet at all. The screen is turned off for the entire game, freeing up a ton of the WiiU's power. What would a game run/look like in those circumstances?

 

[BlackJace]

Hence the parentheses.

Not targeting you specifically buddy, I believe Ninty's to blame for all this wild speculation. All they would have to do is release even the smallest of spec details, and then claims like yours could be confirmed or cease.

 

[jump_button]

Aren't most 360 and PS3 games rendered in 720p anyway? That doesn't sound very impressive to me.

They like you to think that but most are only just better then SD

 

[wsippel]

I doubt there'll be another significant devkit revision. I also think that the "V5" kit IdeaMan refers to is actually the recent V42 kit. Judging by the database entries, these should be the devkits so far:

• V0: Not in the database (very early kit for internal use).
• V1: The first public kit, same hardware as the E3 demo units.
• V2: This kit was modular, with the wireless adapters on daughter boards.
• V3: Not in the database - unreleased?
• V4: Modular, just like the V2 kit.
• V42: The most recent kit in the TLS database and the first point release. This one seems to be a solid unit again, so Nintendo probably decided on specific wireless adapters. Should be pretty much identical to the V4 kit otherwise, so this might very well be the final kit.

 

[cyberheater]

No, I dont read it that way.

Then you need to go back and learn how to read.

For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps.

It's in plain black and white. At the moment. The development systems aren't powerful enough to run complex (real game) engines at 1080p.

 

[Plinko]

Look a bit better, yes. Run at a higher resolution. I doubt it. Not more the 720p for a while at least.

No. Just...no. Just because the box says 720p doesn't mean it's native res is 720p.

 

[guek]

There are hundreds of games that run at 720p.

The point I'm making is that I'm not exactly sitting in my chair in praise of Nintendo for delivering a system that is going to most comfortable only running games at 720p. It's not exactly the leap that I and most folk were looking for. Hardly 'Next Gen'.

If Ideaman's comments are dead on the money then it's not going to be a significant generational leap as far as graphics are concerned. I doubt it's going to have the muscle to run the next batch of true next gen engines. It's going to be PS360 x 1.2 with more memory for better textures and maybe some free high quality AA. That's it.

I don't know, I think it'll depend highly on how scaleable next gen engines are. I wonder if we're going about comparing wii u to the other next gen console all wrong. It may not be about how much better PS4/720 games will look compared to Wii U, thus rendering them unportable, but rather how worse Wii U will look in relation to the competition. If Crysis and Witcher 2 can run on PS360, why shouldn't GTAVI and AC4 be able to run on Wii U?

 

[Plinko]

If Ideaman is correct (even before the v5 devkit increase) this will be more than enough for the masses.

GAF may freak out but GAF doesn't represent the vast majority of consumers.

 

[Rösti]

hmm. I just hope wii u can still manage true next gen games at 720p

“It took five years before we saw games that used the full power of Cell, so we are used to looking ahead and having capacity,” Tsuruta says. “We are looking at an architecture where the bulk of processing will still sit on the main board, with CPU and graphics added to by more digital signal processing and some configurable logic.”

This type of system integration is becoming more common (Sony has always been a master of all types of integration), but the real challenge here lies in the scale. To give a further, more metric-driven sense of that, Sony’s target is to get latency for a typical playing experience to below 50ms for framerates of more than 300fps. Now, 50ms is an absolute best performance level to start with – most displays actually increase it – for framerates of about 60fps ceiling. Moreover, the target is not for 1080p resolution, but reflect a drive towards 8kx4k.

Source: http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/12/maasaki-tsu-interview.cfm

I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity... Nah, IdeaMan's post brings some new details to the table while simultaneously inducing even more confusion and delay. One day the Wii U is technically weaker than Xbox 360 and the other day it's 50% more powerful than PlayStation 3, now it's just barely more powerful than Xbox 360. Capable of rendering games natively at 1080p, or will see 576i-720p just upscaled, who knows? But I'm glad we are slowly getting there, 78 days remain before E3.

The kinks of the Wii U remote, whether it be a simple GUI or something as complex as we saw in the panorama demo, I don't believe will be enough to lure customers if they only see visual parity with that of Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. At least for cross-platform titles like Aliens: Colonial Marines, Assassin's Creed III and Darksiders II. I mean, who would buy Assassin's Creed III for Wii U only to experience a HUD free image on the big screen when they can simply buy the game for existing platforms and save a good $249.99 they would have to spend on Wii U? I wouldn't anyway.

 

[EloquentM]

It's in plain black and white. At the moment. The development systems aren't powerful enough to run complex (real game) engines at 1080p.

lol

I doubt there'll be another significant devkit revision. I also think that the "V5" kit IdeaMan refers to is actually the recent V42 kit. Judging by the database entries, these should be the devkits so far:

• V0: Not in the database (very early kit for internal use).
• V1: The first public kit, same hardware as the E3 demo units.
• V2: This kit was modular, with the wireless adapters on daughter boards.
• V3: Not in the database - unreleased?
• V4: Modular, just like the V2 kit.
• V42: The most recent kit in the TLS database and the first point release. This one seems to be a solid unit again, so Nintendo probably decided on specific wireless adapters. Should be pretty much identical to the V4 kit otherwise, so this might very well be the final kit.

can't forget the devkit that lherre said was only in nintendo headquarters atm.

 

[guek]

If Ideaman is correct (even before the v5 devkit increase) this will be more than enough for the masses.

GAF may freak out but GAF doesn't represent the vast majority of consumers.

I believe this to be true as well. I always chuckle a bit and then shake my head when people say "if [insert console] isn't face meltingly powerful, no one is going to buy it."

it really just depends on portability and HD resolution. If Wii was able to render the exact same games it has on it now but at 720p, I guarantee sales of games like CoD would have been significantly higher on the system.

 

[nordique]

Look a bit better, yes. Run at a higher resolution. I doubt it. Not more the 720p for a while at least.

Arguably, 720p is a higher resolution than most PS360 games (which are upscaled sub720p)

 

[Glorified G]

This also begs the question, what will a game look/ run like if a dev doesn't use/ use little of the controller? Say a dev makes a game where the controller is used only as inventory. It never is used in a way that makes it so that the controller runs full 3D polys, texture, shaders etc etc. or if a dev makes a game that doesn't use the tablet at all. The screen is turned off for the entire game, freeing up a ton of the WiiU's power. What would a game run/look like in those circumstances?

Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seem possible AT the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.

.

 

[Massa]

No. Just...no. Just because the box says 720p doesn't mean it's native res is 720p.

Most 360 games DO run at 720p.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Arguably, 720p is a higher resolution than most PS360 games (which are upscaled sub720p)

No, most of them are native 720p.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Give me some Zelda in 720p, but preferable 1080p, and I am a happy camper.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I don't think this ideaman has any actual sources, it seems like everything he's saying is stuff that's already been speculated about in the thread.

No offense

 

[guek]

Source: I mean, who would buy Assassin's Creed III for Wii U only to experience a HUD free image on the big screen when they can simply buy the game for existing platforms and save a good $249.99 they would have to spend on Wii U? I wouldn't anyway.

People who buy Wii U for other reasons, most likely nintendo software or casual-bait. That demographic is huge.

 

[Nibel]

But I want to know what that means for games that want to use multiple tablets?
Like Madden? Maybe this is what Nintendo is currently trying to solve?

Well: I play Halo very often with 4-players splitscreen, and they solved it by reducing the overall graphical quality.

Let's think about this case: you play Madden on the controller only - no TV.
And let's take the visual differentiation system from a PC Game - High, Medium and Low.

If you play alone - High settings for you. Maybe even a bonus perfomance boost because you play on the controller only.

If you play together - 2 players - it could either still use High settings because the game is rendered at 480p or it has to switch to Medium settings.

If you play the game with 4 players it has to switch to Low settings which means it has to use lower quality assets so that every player has a steady perfomance. But maybe it's like the case before and it can use Medium settings because of the resolution of 480p.

You see, I don't know much about the technical stuff, but this is how I imagine it. There is a reason why you can't play Gears Of War 3 or Uncharted 3 with 4 players because they have costly engines which provide incredible visuals.

It really depends on the visual side of each game: if it is intensive - mhm, there is a chance that you can't play it with multiple tablets. If it has really simple graphics - sure, why not?

Another important point is: will Nintendo restrict the number of tablets being used at the same time to - let's say - 2 tablets only? This could be really stupid because some developers might be able to create games capable of letting 4 players play at the same time.
This will be really interesting to see.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Mark Rein has mentioned UE3 in reference to Wii U, that's where I got the impression from:

"That's what Nintendo is all about. Their hardware is the software delivery service for their great content. That Zelda demo was gorgeous and we can do even more than that with Unreal Engine 3. I think it will do great."

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/122/1220603p1.html

Doesn't mean UE4 is off the table, but combine the above with other comments about UE3 being the 'scalable' engine and UE4 being for 'next-gen' systems, and I know where I would place my bets.

 

[cyberheater]

...It may not be about how much better PS4/720 games will look compared to Wii U, thus rendering them unportable, but rather how worse Wii U will look in relation to the competition. If Crysis and Witcher 2 can run on PS360, why shouldn't GTAVI and AC4 be able to run on Wii U?

If WiiU has a decent memory pool (around 2Gb) and is willing to sacrifice a few things then I think it will go like this:-

Games that run at 1080p at 60fps on PS4/720 will run at 720p and 30fps with model detail complexity reduction and maybe a few lighting and other effects missing. Should still look good.

Games that run at 720P at 30fps on PS4/720 will have to be drastically paired back to run on WiiU. It will look embarrassing. The difference will be very noticeable.

 

[wsippel]

can't forget the devkit that lherre said was only in nintendo headquarters atm.

Right, I remember that one. Don't know which version that is. Might be V42? Maybe lherre can chime in there.

 

[cyberheater]

Most 360 games DO run at 720p.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241




No, most of them are native 720p.

It's no use trying to tell them...

 

[cyberheater]

Give me some Zelda in 720p, but preferable 1080p, and I am a happy camper.

You won't get it at 1080p guaranteed.

 

[axisofweevils]

A certain site, which I can't mention, is already reporting the latest news from this thread! LOL!

I don't want to GO any further....

 

[Nibel]

Mark Rein has mentioned UE3 in reference to Wii U, that's where I got the impression from:

"That's what Nintendo is all about. Their hardware is the software delivery service for their great content. That Zelda demo was gorgeous and we can do even more than that with Unreal Engine 3. I think it will do great."

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/122/1220603p1.html

Doesn't mean UE4 is off the table, but combine the above with other comments about UE3 being the 'scalable' engine and UE4 being for 'next-gen' systems, and I know where I would place my bets.

The only thing this confirms is that UE3 will still be a big player next gen - which I'm okay with.

 

[Glorified G]

If Ideaman is correct (even before the v5 devkit increase) this will be more than enough for the masses.

GAF may freak out but GAF doesn't represent the vast majority of consumers.

More than enough? I'm sure the masses will be dying to pay 300+ for a new console to play games that looks almost identical to the ones they already own.

The selling point anyway is the tablet. There's no way PS4/Nextbox gets away with this kind of power.

 

[Rösti]

A certain site, which I can't mention, is already reporting the latest news from this thread! LOL!

I don't want to GO any further....

Oh, Kevin Cassidy. ¦¬Ð

 

[Plinko]

More than enough? I'm sure the masses will be dying to pay 300+ for a new console to play games that looks almost identical to the ones they already own.

The selling point anyway is the tablet. There's no way PS4/Nextbox gets away with this kind of power.

Tablet plus new Nintendo games in HD will be more than enough.

Look at the previous gen--Wii crushed HD for years, 3DS is crushing Vita.

Very few outside of GAF actually care about visual power. Sorry--It's true.

Most likely this thing has a year headstart on the other two and the gap will probably be less. Next gen ( and all others) will be about games and new ways to play.

 

[guek]

Games that run at 720P at 30fps on PS4/720 will have to be drastically paired back to run on WiiU. It will look embarrassing. The difference will be very noticeable.

I think this will be a matter of opinion. I'm no game developer, but from the way I understand it, it's going to mostly be about 1. resource intensive effects 2. poly count 3. anti-aliasing

There are ways to significantly cut back on all of those and keep games from looking "embarrassing" (depending on your point of view). If those games are still 720p with modern shaders, it will still look perfectly acceptable to most. Things start going downhill once you get in the realm of super low res textures and horrible framerates. As long as that can be avoided, I think it'll be acceptable for most.

I think you're also projecting a bit on what's an acceptable visual performance next gen for YOU personally. I'm certainly doing something similar, but I really do feel that most consumer wont care as long as games are capable of being stripped down to the level I'm describing.

 

[Xellos]

No, most are upscaled to 720. COD runs below 720.

While I know that some games like COD are upscaled, I was under the impression that most of this gen's big games actually do run at 720p (on one, if not both of the HD twins).

For Wii U, I'm fine with 720p as long as it comes with with v-sync, stable framerates, AA, and better textures/lighting/etc. I expect 720/PS4 to stick with 720p too.

 

[EloquentM]

More than enough? I'm sure the masses will be dying to pay 300+ for a new console to play games that looks almost identical to the ones they already own.

The selling point anyway is the tablet. There's no way PS4/Nextbox gets away with this kind of power.

the masses can barely tell the difference in high settings PC battlefield and ps3 battlefield. I think Wii U should be just fine.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

The only thing this confirms is that UE3 will still be a big player next gen - which I'm okay with.

Me too. But I just really get the feeling that big UE4 games won't be possible on Wii U. I mean, Mark Rein has emphasised that UE4 is not [designed to be particularly] scalable, and is targetting next gen platforms. So we can pretty much rule out the ability of PS360 to run UE4. Based on what little we know, and particularly looking at Ideaman's latest posts, gives me the impression that as far as multiplat releases will go, we'll be looking at a game on Wii U that is a little more impressive than PS360 PLUS the very nice bonus of outputting on the tablet, too. I just don't see UE4 on Wii U - and not on PS360 - unless Wii U *just* makes the minimum requirements for that engine. But this remains my personal speculation, based on what I have read in this, and UE-related threads.

 

[Door2Dawn]

So I'm wondering. Does this mean 720p with high controller use or 1080p with simple stuff like HUD stuff on the controller?

 

[nordique]

Oh, Kevin Cassidy. ¦¬Ð

I met him very briefly at E3 a few years back. He's a really nice guy from what I recall.

It amazes me how fast that site can be updated.

Tablet plus new Nintendo games in HD will be more than enough.

Look at the previous gen--Wii crushed HD for years, 3DS is crushing Vita.

Very few outside of GAF actually care about visual power. Sorry--It's true.

Most likely this thing has a year headstart on the other two and the gap will probably be less. Next gen ( and all others) will be about games and new ways to play.

Very true; tell that to Patcher


(btw I think this also jibes with what the next Xbox will be like as well)

 

[guek]

You won't get it at 1080p guaranteed.

There's no way for you to be sure of that. This is nintendo we're talking about, the company that was able to get a game like SMG to run on wii hardware at 60fps. Even with modern day consoles, it's ALL ABOUT what's targeted. Every game this gen could be 1080p locked at 60fps if that's what devs targeted, they'd just look significantly worse if they were trying to make games that looked similar to what we actually get today. Nintendo could totally build a zelda at 1080p 60fps (it'll be 30fps most likely given no zelda prior has been greater than that) that still looked great. It just wouldn't employ the kinds of resource intensive effects you see in games like BF3.

 

[golcarfel]

So I'm wondering. Does this mean 720p with high controller use or 1080p with simple stuff like HUD stuff on the controller?

Thats what I want to know too. If they use the controller for just inventory, like the Zelda HD experience, can they get the games to run stable on 1080P?

 

[suracity]

the masses can barely tell the difference in high settings PC battlefield and ps3 battlefield. I think Wii U should be just fine.

I am one of those masses... I mean every time I see those comparison screenshots of 360/PS3/PC I can't tell the difference...Maybe I am just not sensitive of those details...

 

[tkscz]

Me too. But I just really get the feeling that big UE4 games won't be possible on Wii U. I mean, Mark Rein has emphasised that UE4 is not [designed to be particularly] scalable, and is targetting next gen platforms. So we can pretty much rule out the ability of PS360 to run UE4. Based on what little we know, and particularly looking at Ideaman's latest posts, gives me the impression that as far as multiplat releases will go, we'll be looking at a game on Wii U that is a little more impressive than PS360 PLUS the very nice bonus of outputting on the tablet, too. I just don't see UE4 on Wii U - and not on PS360 - unless Wii U *just* makes the minimum requirements for that engine. But this remains my personal speculation, based on what I have read in this, and UE-related threads.

As far as I can tell from his info, so far, his sources are just porting over a game, without optimizing it specifically for the WiiU. Not only that, but the game they're running is doing quite a lot with the tablet. With the state of the devkits so far, it would explain why his sources aren't getting that far in terms of graphics.

Now lets say Epic optimizes UE3 or 4 specifically for the WiiU, on it's final stage, with little to no use out of the tablet. Then I could see the U running UE4 at least at 30fps at 720p. That's a lot to sacrifice though, making the tablet either useless, or a quick inventory screen.

 

[guek]

Another thing people should keep in mind is if you look at that list of game resolutions on the beyond3D forums, you'll notice that the number of 720p native games goes up as the generation continues. Why the hell can a game like RE5 run at 720p native when Halo3 couldn't? Think about that. Just because new hardware is running a less than stellar configuration at the beginning of its life cycle doesn't mean it wont get significantly better as time goes on.

 

[nordique]

Me too. But I just really get the feeling that big UE4 games won't be possible on Wii U. I mean, Mark Rein has emphasised that UE4 is not [designed to be particularly] scalable, and is targetting next gen platforms. So we can pretty much rule out the ability of PS360 to run UE4. Based on what little we know, and particularly looking at Ideaman's latest posts, gives me the impression that as far as multiplat releases will go, we'll be looking at a game on Wii U that is a little more impressive than PS360 PLUS the very nice bonus of outputting on the tablet, too. I just don't see UE4 on Wii U - and not on PS360 - unless Wii U *just* makes the minimum requirements for that engine. But this remains my personal speculation, based on what I have read in this, and UE-related threads.

It may very well be the case that the Wii U may be slightly more powerful than the PS360 on paper , but keep in mind engines and their ability to run (especially aiui) has more to do with the latest tech and taking advantage of that; not just the most powerful


The Wii U GPU may be only end up being 2x more powerful than the 360 GPU, but it should support the latest feature sets, which would allow a "next gen engine" like UE4 to be scalable.

We don't know for sure. I think the Next Xbox will be very well capable of handling UE4, but I don't see it being a huge bump up from the 360 the way people think it will be. Likewise, the Wii U is not a huge upgrade over the previous generation (of HD consoles) either.

That's my take on it. UE4 will, I expect, be on the Wii U.


If anyone wants to take advantage of everything UE4 will have to offer, they should start PC gaming. I don't think consoles are the way to go if graphics are the first priority for gaming needs.

 

[aeroslash]

Bad news for me...

I know the thing is that Wii u have a tablet controler but I'm not sure i can pass another generation with Nintendo giving a low graphical output.

I've never thought it would be a true generation leap or in the same ballpark as the 720/ps4 but if this information is true, it won't be able to run the next generation of games in 2 years..and no compatibility with the next-gen engines mean no third parties again..

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

The selling point anyway is the tablet. There's no way PS4/Nextbox gets away with this kind of power.

This is a close-minded way of thinking. You're assuming off the bat that PS4/720 will use standard controllers and be a simple continuation of the PS3/360, not to mention also assuming that anyone definitively knows what "this kind of power" actually is in regards to Wii U. With how much MS loves Kinect and Sony's own dabblings into motion control, it's not illogical to think that Microsoft or Sony will debut their own "Wii" style console next gen, especially when considering that even if the PS4/720 are remarkably more powerful than Wii U, what would they really get out of that? The ability to say that their games run in 1080P while Wii U games run in 720P, but are otherwise identical? The extra cost won't pay off. The amount of added visual fidelity you get for the amount of power being put in is not worth raising the manufacturing cost of every system by $40-$50. Who ever decides that it's of utmost importance to win the GPU/CPU pissing contest next gen will be the loser overall.

Besides, how many times must the market prove that system power isn't a selling point any more? PS2, Wii, DS, and 3DS all proved that people care about lots of fun games at large quantities, not visual spectacles. The video games demographic is no longer dominated by 8-12 year old boys that need something to debate on the playground.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

As far as I can tell from his info, so far, his sources are just porting over a game, without optimizing it specifically for the WiiU. Not only that, but the game they're running is doing quite a lot with the tablet. With the state of the devkits so far, it would explain why his sources aren't getting that far in terms of graphics.

Now lets say Epic optimizes UE3 or 4 specifically for the WiiU, on it's final stage, with little to no use out of the tablet. Then I could see the U running UE4 at least at 30fps at 720p. That's a lot to sacrifice though, making the tablet either useless, or a quick inventory screen.

Sounds reasonable too. Either way, I'm not gonna be buying a Wii U to play the least-impressive versions of UE4 titles that don't make good use of the tablet! I'm perfectly happy with UE3 titles if they do something inventive

 

[Nibel]

Another thing people should keep in mind is if you look at that list of game resolutions on the beyond3D forums, you'll notice that the number of 720p native games goes up as the generation continues. Why the hell can a game like RE5 run at 720p native when Halo3 couldn't? Think about that. Just because new hardware is running a less than stellar configuration at the beginning of its life cycle doesn't mean it wont get significantly better as time goes on.

Yup! Look at launch PS2 games and Shadow Of The Colossus or Gears 1 and Gears 3, Final Fantasy 7 and 9 - it gets better when the developers understand the hardware better.

 

[tkscz]

Sounds reasonable too. Either way, I'm not gonna be buying a Wii U to play the least-impressive versions of UE4 titles that don't make good use of the tablet! I'm perfectly happy with UE3 titles if they do something inventive

My problem with Epic and the WiiU is Mark himself. He's hyping the shit out of the WiiU and thee UE3/4 for a reason. The question is, what is that reason?

Yup! Look at launch PS2 games and Shadow Of The Colossus or Gears 1 and Gears 3, Final Fantasy 7 and 9 - it gets better when the developers understand the hardware better.

I hate to repeat myself, but Conker's Live and Reloaded on the original Xbox, could easily be taken for an early 360 game. It and the original bad fur day for the N64, are perfect examples of optimizing for the console you work on.

 

[Glorified G]

Tablet plus new Nintendo games in HD will be more than enough.

Wait, I thought power didn't matter? Now you're using HD as bullet point.

Look at the previous gen--Wii crushed HD for years, 3DS is crushing Vita.

Technically, Wii didn't crush HD. There are more HD consoles out there then there are for the Wii. But I get your point. However motion controls was the primary reason for the Wii successs, it's a little presumptuous to think the tablet will have the same impact. What if consumers don't care? What is left to compare Wii U with the other consoles?

Very few outside of GAF actually care about visual power. Sorry--It's true.

And if this had any truth, Wii U wouldn't be going HD, and the 360 + PS3 would be selling like shit. There is a reason why their going HD in the first place. There trying to get 3rd party support.If very few outside GAF cared about power, Nintendo wouldn't need to make an HD console in the first place.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

What if Wii U sells well, are they really gonna tell developers "Use our new engine that you can't use for games on that platform that sells really well right now." ?

I mean not having UE4 on Wii U sounds bad for both Epic and Nintendo. It's almost like betting against the entire platform, which sounds quite risky to me.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you (though I'm a pessimist), but I'd really not want be the person that has to persuade developers to choose an engine that might not work on a (potentially) highly successful platform.

Well the Wii sold really well and I don't think there are any UE3 titles on it. Or are there? UE3 still manages to impress - hey Samaritan isn't even UE4 - so Epic can still support Wii U without making UE4 run on it. I personally think they hinted as much when they recently emphasised that UE3 is a scalable engine that will be sticking around (it's gonna be supported by Vita, iPad, Android and Flash anyway)

 

[guek]

Wait, I thought power didn't matter? Now you're using HD as bullet point.



Technically, Wii didn't crush HD. There are more HD consoles out there then there are for the Wii. But I get your point. However motion controls was the primary reason for the Wii successs, it's a little presumptuous to think the tablet will have the same impact. What if consumers don't care? What is left to compare Wii U with the other consoles?



And if this had any truth, Wii U wouldn't be going HD, and the 360 + PS3 would be selling like shit. There is a reason why their going HD in the first place. If very few outside GAF cared about power, Nintendo wouldn't need to make an HD console in the first place.

It's not about power, it's about games. Can Wii U run next gen games? That's all that matters. Some are interpreting what ideaman is saying as a negative confirmation when that's simply not true. We still don't know yet, and the statements at hand can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Ideaman even goes out of his way to say this news doesn't mean the wii u is underpowered. Sheesh.

 

[fernoca]

Bad news for me...

I know the thing is that Wii u have a tablet controler but I'm not sure i can pass another generation with Nintendo giving a low graphical output.

I've never thought it would be a true generation leap or in the same ballpark as the 720/ps4 but if this information is true, it won't be able to run the next generation of games in 2 years..and no compatibility with the next-gen engines mean no third parties again..

Is not like that.
IdeaMan basically expanded on something he said earlier and that has been known for quite some time:
That games that use extensively both the main screen (i.e. TV) and the second screen (tablet) will technically look slightly better than 720p current-gen games (with some added effects, etc.).

Games that use the second screen as a HUD or as a 2D menu, will be able to put more details and other things in the main screen.

So like always, it will depend on the developer more than anything.
You bet that most will probably just port the games, put a 2D map on the tablet and use the Wii U's extra feaures to just get the port running, rather than make use of the exta power to make it better.


EDIT:
The way I see i, it's technically like the 3DS. Since the image needs to be rendered twice, you have games like Resident Evil Revelations or even Super Street Fighter IV (a launch game) that make good use of the hardware and it looks stunning, and you have games like Splinter Cell than are bad/launch ports and look worse than the PS2 version.

 

[Nibel]

Well the Wii sold really well and I don't think there are any UE3 titles on it. Or are there? UE3 still manages to impress - hey Samaritan isn't even UE4 - so Epic can still support Wii U without making UE4 run on it. I personally think they hinted as much when they recently emphasised that UE3 is a scalable engine that will be sticking around (it's gonna be supported by Vita, iPad, Android and Flash anyway)

Wii had the disadvantage of not having shader models and some other stuff.