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Can we talk about old-school first person dungeon crawlers?

deim0s

Member
Subscribed.

Btw... for a FPS dungeon crawler, is it a requirement to have a real-time combat mechanic?

I guess it is, then we'd have Dungeon Master, Dragon Wars, etc in the mix.
 
More personal shame: the only Wizardry title I've really played is Tale of the Forsaken Land for the PS2, and that's not even a "real" Wizardry game. (It is a great game, though.)

There are plenty of bugs on PC too.

Yeah. But the thing is, on the PC version, you can open a console and fix some of the game-halting problems. I got almost to the end of the Xbox port, ran into a horrible bug, and all my progress was wasted :(

Still worth the gameplay experience, though.
 

dondarm

Banned
Subscribed.

Btw... for a FPS dungeon crawler, is it a requirement to have a real-time combat mechanic?

I guess it is, then we'd have Dungeon Master, Dragon Wars, etc in the mix.
Don't think so. Arkania doesn't even have first person combat and MM6 can be set to turn based if you want. The Wizardrys are turn based, too.
 

Seep

Member
hired guns

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hired-guns-chars_06.jpg


hired-guns_disk1_002.png


hired-guns_disk1_002.png


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr0tczfK4-A

Oh the memories.
 

Munin

Member
These games would play so well on Android/iOS devices...The Quest and Undercroft are amazing, but don't really have the same depth as something like MMVI.
 
As someone who was a uber-nerd for the old SSI 'gold box' AD&D games, I'd have to mention Eye of the Beholder :-

250px-Eye_of_the_Beholder_I_PC_box.jpeg

eyeofbeholder.jpeg


Ahh, the memories! Although I preferred the gold box series (Pool of Radiance, Azure Bonds etc), Eye of the Beholder was great too, even the sequels were pretty good

Interestingly enough for the OP citing Lands of Lore, Westwood Studios were the devs that did Eye of the Beholder - they made Lands of Lore a few years after...
 
As someone who was a uber-nerd for the old SSI 'gold box' AD&D games, I'd have to mention Eye of the Beholder :-

Ahh, the memories! Although I preferred the gold box series (Pool of Radiance, Azure Bonds etc), Eye of the Beholder was great too, even the sequels were pretty good

Interestingly enough for the OP citing Lands of Lore, Westwood Studios were the devs that did Eye of the Beholder - they made Lands of Lore a few years after...

You, sir, are a kindred spirit. The "Savage Frontier" goldbox games, along with the Dragonlance ones, were the games that got me into RPG's.

I have fond memories of Eye of the Beholder as well, but mine was the SNES version. I'd love it if GoG could get more of these old school dungeon crawlers up again. I never finished EotB.
 
also a game that I think is worthy of note for this topic: Phantasy Star. Top down overworld, but 1st person dungeon crawls (on the Master System!). Nothing pissed me off more than all the false floors in Medusa's Tower.
 
The old school Wizardrys are surprisingly bland and not fun. 4 was an interesting take on the genre (you play as the bad guy), but 1-3 and 5 were rather simple and frustratingly difficult. It wasn't until #6 that the series actually began to live up to its reputation.
 
Next update(s) will feature:

- Shadowcaster
- Amulets & Armor
- Black Crypt
- Menzoberranzan
- Strahd's Possession
- Wizards & Warriors
- Wizardry 7 & 8
- Might and Magic 1-5
- Eye of the Beholder 1-3
- Lands of Lore 3
- Betrayal at Krondor
- Betrayal in Antara

I will have a busy nite tonite :)
 

VaeVictis

Member
StoppedInTracks said:
This is my favourite 90-degrees of movement (tile based) RPG in history. The only game I've beaten more than 5 times. Super niche. Nobody I know knows about this game, literally NOBODY. Probably noone on this board as well. It is a carbon copy of Might and Magic III-V. Think EA's Medal of Honour next to Activision's Call of Duty. Everything is the same just from a different developer. I really cannot say more about this game except: treat it as another DOS era Might and Magic title. You will be in heaven if you loved old-school M&M games.

You probably never heard about this game but it is a great RPG title. A hidden treasure for old time Might and Magic fans.

Do you happen to frequent SA, especially this thread? I asked about a long forgotten game on that board and the answer was this very game!

I am finishing up LoL1 and then plan on giving Yendorian Tales a play-through even though I already preorder Legend of Grimrock. I also have an eye on Anvil of Dawn. Playing through the old PC oldies always gives me such a good endorphin boost that no modern game ever comes close.

Glad to see the genre still has a lot of fans :)
 

kswiston

Member
If you don't own the games and like First Person Rpgs (and strategy rpgs) with lots of loot you should be taking advantage of the GOG.com Might and Magic Sale!

Games On sale:

+++ - Highly recommended
++ - Recommended (but start with the highly recommended titles)
+ - Not recommended

Might and Magic 6-Pack (+++) $4.99 - Might and Magic IV-VI are all awesome, even if IV and V are nearly 20 years old. This pack gives you 100s of hours of gameplay, and the best entries in the Might and Magic series for $5.

Might and Magic VII (++) $2.99 - I really liked this installment. It built off of the mechanics of MM6, and offered a more robust magic and skill system. You also get your own castle. I think the OP was harsh on the game, and it has my recommendation.

Might and Magic VIII (++) $2.99 - If you like the idea of having a party that consists of a Knight, a Vampire, a Troll, a Dragon, and a Minotaur, you would enjoy this game. The scenario was interesting, and the game contained most of the things I loved about the series. I did find it on the easy side though.

Might and Magic IX (+) $2.99 - I have never actually beat this game, but it is a big step down from the previous 5 installments.


Heroes of Might and Magic (+) $4.99 - Not a bad game by any means, but for $5 you are better off choosing the improved sequels.

Heroes of Might and Magic 2 (++) $4.99 - Improved upon almost everything in the first game. If I remember correctly, the story was set in the same world as Might and Magic VI, and the games share some of the same NPCs and Lore.

Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (+++) $4.99 - This is the best game in the series. It improves upon HoMM in most ways and has a TON of content. You get the lengthy base game and the x-pack scenarios. HOMM3 ties into the story presented in Might and Magic VI and is a story prequel of sorts to Might and Magic VII. However, Story is a secondary focus in all of these titles, so you don't need to play them in order.

Heroes of Might and Magic 4 (++) $4.99 - They tried to chance up the HOMM formula a little, to mixed results. The game was originally considered a disappointment after HOMM3, but I still like it. Battles are slower however. Like HOMM3, you get all the x-packs, giving you a ton of content to play through.

Heroes of Might and Magic Chronicles (++) $4.99 - This game was originally released in episodic format. Each chapter gave you a campaign starring a different hero. The campaigns were based on the HOMM3 engine, so if you like that game, you would probably like these. Campaigns are shorter and easier than the campaigns present in other HOMM titles. However, you get 8 of them in this game, so there is still a ton of content.

Crusaders of Might and Magic (+) $2.99 - An action game/dungeon crawler spin-off that isn't worth your time, even at $3. The level design was poor and the game itself boring.
 

Anuxinamoon

Shaper Divine
Realms of Arcadia. I cut me RPG teef on that game! :D
I think I had to play it 4-5 times but would always get stuck in that dungeon where I had to split up my party. Didn't have faq's so I had to remember how to get past the mirrors every time. Always ended up running out of time and the game would end.

Loved the game though. So awesome :D

Also played Eye of the Beholder a few months ago with the hubby. He grew up on the gold box games and kept raving to me about how good they were. After we finished that we started number two but real life things (cough FF13-2 and Skyrim cough) have gotten in the way of us completing it.

I used to go to this site to play the old dos games since I'm no longer bothered setting up dos box anymore.
http://www.freegameempire.com/
 
Do you happen to frequent SA, especially this thread? I asked about a long forgotten game on that board and the answer was this very game!

I am finishing up LoL1 and then plan on giving Yendorian Tales a play-through even though I already preorder Legend of Grimrock. I also have an eye on Anvil of Dawn. Playing through the old PC oldies always gives me such a good endorphin boost that no modern game ever comes close.

Glad to see the genre still has a lot of fans :)

No, I don't post or browse Something Awful.

Whoa you are the second living person (except my bro) who happens to know Yendorian Tales! Amazing!
 

MasLegio

Banned
Next update(s) will feature:

- Shadowcaster
- Amulets & Armor
- Black Crypt
- Menzoberranzan
- Strahd's Possession
- Wizards & Warriors
- Wizardry 7 & 8
- Might and Magic 1-5
- Eye of the Beholder 1-3
- Lands of Lore 3
- Betrayal at Krondor
- Betrayal in Antara

I will have a busy nite tonite :)


what about Dungeon Master & Chaos Strikes Back?


also you have wrong info about Ishar,
you do get Ishar 3 when you purchase the compilation. As well as the prequel.
 

stuminus3

Member
Such a wonderful OP full of happy memories, but no mention of Bloodwych? Off the top off my head it's the only one of these games I know of that has split-screen co-op multiplayer.

260743-bloodwych-amiga-screenshot-you-can-split-screen-and-play-with.png
 
what about Dungeon Master & Chaos Strikes Back?

also you have wrong info about Ishar,
you do get Ishar 3 when you purchase the compilation. As well as the prequel.

I didn't really check those links. Joseph Merrick (come to this thread, man!) provided them in the Grimrock thread and I decided to describe those games from my memory.

I will fix the OP and provide info on Ishar 3 as well (best Ishar title that unfortunaletly got panned in the press) :) And I will include DM2 on my to-do list, thanks!
 

Moofers

Member
AD&D SLAYER on 3DO I fuckin LOVE that intro movie! The music is just sooooo amazing.

The game itself is pretty barebones compared to other FPS dungeon crawlers. You control just one character and there's no point to any of it outside of just trying to survive each level to get to the next. There's not a lot of clues as to where to go, or what certain items do, or what the switch you just pushed even does. But in a way, that's part of the charm for me. I like playing it occasionally and treating it like a survival horror game.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Shining in the Darkness, and Shining the Holy Ark could be 2 possible additions for a later date...

All I can say is, nice topic (even if first person dungeon crawls aren't my favorite subset of RPG), and mindblown - I had no idea there were 9 Might and Magic games, I always thought the series stopped at 6 or something.
 

Hex

Banned
The Wizardry series, Eye of the Beholder, Arcana.
Definite props for the Stone Prophet mention.
 

Philthy

Member
It would be really cool to see some more AD&D crawlers come out that look like Grimrock. A Kickstarter for something like this would probably fund it quite well so long as who ever owns the AD&D licenses is willing to take a chance again. A high res version on the new ipad would be absolutely incredible. Maybe track down the original Goldbox and FTL guys and throw money at them to come up with something.
 

Inkwell

Banned
I've always wanted to try these kinds of RPGs, but I'm worried the games might feel a little too dated. The only game like this that I've played was the Doom RPG on one of my old phones. If I were to buy only one or two of these games, which ones would you guys recommend?
 

Philthy

Member
Honestly? Wait for Legend of Grimrock to release next week. If you've never played one, you're going to probably be disappointed by the classics. Nostalgia is potent with old games, and not having any is usually a big turn off.
 

Ledsen

Member
So I was rummaging through old Swedish gaming magazine High Score from the 90's and found this, thought GAF would get a kick out of it:

High Score said:
img_11585buhc.jpg

Ravenloft 4/4
"Despite some irritating stuff, I enjoyed Ravenloft. It's not as freeform as TES: Arena, but the story is much better."

img_11592ju32.jpg

Perihelion 2/5
"A poor product with a wasted premise."

img_1160pvuz6.jpg

TES: Arena 4/5
"An ambitious product that almost succeeds in creating a virtual world [...] no match for Underworld, despite the size."

Also contains the best comment:
"It's a bit hard to accept that my 33 MHz 486 now counts as slow"

img_1162xsuaw.jpg

Betrayal at Krondor 4/5
"Krondor feels like a good book, with amazing depth and well-realized, multi-faceted characters [...] Where it matters, Krondor is a very well put-together RPG [...] The 9 chapters are enough to keep anyone glued to their screen for months"

img_1163zaucy.jpg

Lands of Lore 4/5
"Lands of Lore is as close to perfect as it gets. [...] but I can't shake the feeling that it's been done before [...] Lacks the originality to take the top spot from Underworld I & II."

img_1164fiuba.jpg

Ishar 2 3/5
"The enemies are incredibly strong, but dumb as sheep. They'll follow you to a certain point, then simply stand there like idiots, watching you. [...] Not a ground-breaking game, but pretty entertaining at times."

img_1165t5ua5.jpg

Hired Guns 4/5
"Buy this game."

img_1166zbuoj.jpg

Albion 3/5
"A fun game for those with patience, because it takes a while to get into it."

img_1167kjutb.jpg

Dungeon Hack 3/5
"A highly mediocre game [...] The graphics are lifted straight from Eye of the Beholder 3 [...] but the monsters animate very poorly [...] which is pretty silly considering it takes a 386 to play Dungeon Hack."
 
I think I may have played M&M8 back in the day, but I can't remember. Was there some kind of time limit where you had to gather an army to fight the boss in some kinda RTS/action hybrid?
 

codhand

Member
Are any decent throwbacks on iOS? I know there was the Orcs and Elves and a few like that four years years back.
:-/ Thanks for the avatar too.
 

Philthy

Member
^^ Best I've seen on iOS is "The Quest" which is an iphone game. It's pretty good, but not on an ipad. :/ Grimrock is coming!

It's amusing Dungeon Hack got a low score there. It was widely regarded as probably the best in the AD&D crawlers. It was all randomly generated so it was always a different game, it had all the old art assets from EoB games plus new ones, it had new weapons, traps, spells, as well as the old ones. It was basically EoB on steroids, minus any storyline.
 
So I was rummaging through old Swedish gaming magazine High Score from the 90's and found this, thought GAF would get a kick out of it:

Those scans are really great find. May I post them in the OP as well?

Perihelion... I remember it was Amiga exclusive and all the Amiga fanbois would laugh at PC ones for missing such a great sci-fi game.
 

bengraven

Member
Interested in hearing about the Strahd game.

I love old Ravenloft setting and used to read the novels and collect the books, despite never playing an actual pnp D&D game. The Egypt setting of the game in the OP isn't really for me, though. I like gothic castles and vampire elves.
 

Inkwell

Banned
Honestly? Wait for Legend of Grimrock to release next week. If you've never played one, you're going to probably be disappointed by the classics. Nostalgia is potent with old games, and not having any is usually a big turn off.

That's understandable for the most part. I'm strangely drawn to these kinds of RPGs, despite never having played them. Oddly enough, I'm not too interested in Grimrock. I think I'll wait to see everyone's reactions to that one first. I would still like to try at least one of the classics at some point.
 

Ledsen

Member
^^ Best I've seen on iOS is "The Quest" which is an iphone game. It's pretty good, but not on an ipad. :/ Grimrock is coming!

It's amusing Dungeon Hack got a low score there. It was widely regarded as probably the best in the AD&D crawlers. It was all randomly generated so it was always a different game, it had all the old art assets from EoB games plus new ones, it had new weapons, traps, spells, as well as the old ones. It was basically EoB on steroids, minus any storyline.

Yeah, the reviewer calls it a "RPG generator" and describes how you move sliders to customize your experience. He also says that the new monsters are horribly animated, but beyond that he doesn't really elaborate on why it's so bad.
 

kswiston

Member
That's understandable for the most part. I'm strangely drawn to these kinds of RPGs, despite never having played them. Oddly enough, I'm not too interested in Grimrock. I think I'll wait to see everyone's reactions to that one first. I would still like to try at least one of the classics at some point.

Play Might and Magic VII or VIII. They are currently $3 each on GoG.com, and are newer than most of the other titles in this thread. A lot of late 80s/early 90s crpgs are really hard to get into if you never played them back when they were current. Might and Magic VII and VIII came out in 1999 and 2000. Still dated, but only by a decade instead of two decades.
 

Accoun

Member
So, if I was about to try getting into the genre, where would be a good point to start? Keep in mind I only have a netbook and a PSP...
 

Ledsen

Member
Play Might and Magic VII or VIII. They are currently $3 each on GoG.com, and are newer than most of the other titles in this thread. A lot of late 80s/early 90s crpgs are really hard to get into if you never played them back when they were current. Might and Magic VII and VIII came out in 1999 and 2000. Still dated, but only by a decade instead of two decades.

From just playing Ultima Underworld an hour or so, it feels pretty modern. WASD controls (well, almost), charming graphics and a pretty intuitive UI. Also you only control one character so it's not overwhelmingly complicated. In fact it's pretty simple. So I'd recommend it to a beginner (like me) :)
 

kswiston

Member
From just playing Ultima Underworld an hour or so, it feels pretty modern. WASD controls (well, almost), charming graphics and a pretty intuitive UI. Also you only control one character so it's not overwhelmingly complicated. In fact it's pretty simple. So I'd recommend it to a beginner (like me) :)

Ya, Ultima Underworld or one of the Late 90 Might and Magic games would be my two recommendations.


So, if I was about to try getting into the genre, where would be a good point to start? Keep in mind I only have a netbook and a PSP...

Might and Magic VIII ran fine on a Pentium 200MHz with 32MB of ram when it came out. A lot of the games in this thread were made for Intel 386 and 486 machines which had 1-8MB of RAM. I don't have a netbook, but I will hazard a guess that you can run all of the games on GOG.com that are listed in this thread.
 

larvi

Member
Yeah, the reviewer calls it a "RPG generator" and describes how you move sliders to customize your experience. He also says that the new monsters are horribly animated, but beyond that he doesn't really elaborate on why it's so bad.

Dungeon Hack was great, essentially a rougelike using AD&D rules and using the EOTB engine. It didn't get good reviews because it was a roguelike, reviewers never like those because there is no story, they are very difficult and really no ending so they can never finish them in time for the review deadline.
 
I'm mostly a portable gamer nowadays, so I just started a fresh play of The Dark Spire, motivated by this thread. (My perpetual Etrian Odyssey III game is in recess while I figure out what to do next. stuck.)

Dark Spire classic mode is so good.
 
There's one game I always wanted to try but for some reason when I installed it on a xp machine got some weird instalation erros, its called Demise: Ascension; it's got some subtitle I cant recall but it looked pretty awesome.
 
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