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Halo |OT3| Remember Reach?

So are Armor Abilities the gameplay changing armor modifications?
Or are there more types of customizations you can add to change the game up even more?
 
You guys don't like playing the MLG playlists?

Maybe if it was Arena ranked.

I never know if I'm shitting on kids or I'm shitting on bad kids. I'd like to just be placed in gold MLG and play competitive games and win ~ 50% but thats not what happens in regular MLG matchmaking. Also playing stressful games that don't have the ranking system behind it doesn't give me any positive feeling after wins or losses because I have no fucking idea how good the people I just played are.
 
It wasn't until about a week ago that we all started having doubts about the game. Since then Frankie and Ellis have been telling us that they will give us details soon, which is happening this week. I would say that they have been pretty swift in terms of answering our questions.
Not entirely sure what your point is. Mine is that people are just reacting to what info and screens they have, not what they may or may not have at some point in the future.

As for the questions, there's only so much they can say, no one blames Frankie or David, they have been great.
You have to admit that 343 has been really good about supporting the community with Reach and fiction. So I do have faith in Halo 4.
My immediate response to this is rather harsh on 343, whom I admire those that I know of.
So I'll respectfully disagree. 343I have been good, but have made plenty of mistakes with Reach and the product they shipped, Anniversary.
maybe its time to have a halo ce/2/3 OT and a reach/4 OT
... no, I really don't think so. Unless people are that uncomfortable with certain opinions.
You do know most people here play Reach everyday even if it isn't their favourite Halo game?
 
Depends on how they segment skilled players vs less skilled players. If I have access to certain abilities, modifications or guns as a higher skilled player than someone who is a lower skilled player (because they haven't yet unlocked these same abilities, modifications or guns) in the same match, then no.
Yep. And even if unlocks are balanced in the sense that no unlock becomes THE go to weapon or item in comparison to others, its still an advantage. And its an advantage given to players who have already spent more time in-game which just compounds that advantage.

I don't see how its possible to have unlocks and fairness honestly. But you can still have fun, and weapon/item/armor locks are far more of a reward than purely aesthetic ones. So when it comes to unlockables I can at least understand why they're there.

Without condoning or condemning, I understand.
 

ZalinKrow

Member
Could it not be said though, that since everyone should technically be able to choose from the same armour abilities as anyone else, equality is still maintained?
That's essentially my outlook on it. Unlike some other games (where people might have things you can't get yet), at least in Reach you know that if someone is kickin' your ass using camo, that you have the choice go choose it too to take them on with what they're using. There's been a bunch of matches where I'll say ¨Fuck it, I'm using jetpack too then¨. I get that people dislike the rock, paper, scissors element of the gameplay though. I never found it off-putting, but that's just my opinion :)
 
Yep. And even if unlocks are balanced in the sense that no unlock becomes THE go to weapon or item in comparison to others, its still an advantage. And its an advantage given to players who have already spent more time in-game which just compounds that advantage.

I don't see how its possible to have unlocks and fairness honestly. But you can still have fun, and weapon/item/armor locks are far more of a reward than purely aesthetic ones. So when it comes to unlockables I can at least understand why they're there.

Without condoning or condemning, I understand.

You ever play Rainbow Six? Or Ghost Recon? Or Team Fortress?
Honestly, even COD MW2 had pretty good weapon balance besides a few oddballs.

It is definitely possible to have unlocks be balanced.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
That's essentially my outlook on it. Unlike some other games (where people might have things you can't get yet), at least in Reach you know that if someone is kickin' your ass using camo, that you have the choice go choose it too to take them on with what they're using. There's been a bunch of matches where I'll say ¨Fuck it, I'm using jetpack too then¨. I get that people dislike the rock, paper, scissors element of the gameplay though. I never found it off-putting, but that's just my opinion :)
How do you know Camo or Jetpack isn't unlocked later on?
 
Something derivative of this...

Halo for me is when all players spawn with the same base traits, no changes (loadouts). All of the players have the same starting weapon. Each player has a regenerating energy shield. Each player has two weapon slots. There are set locations where set weapons appear at set intervals on the map. The player may pick up said weapons if he chooses. The whole game is built around shooting, throwing grenades, and bashing things in with the but of your gun.

That is more or less it.

Now I said derivative. Dual wielding was derivative. Equipment, poorly implemented as it was, was derivative. Even assassinations, though I do not like them, are derivative. AA's are not, the break the idea of initial equality on spawn.

If you want to make a change to Halo you should not break the base traits that define the game. Do you want a new feature for Halo 4? Add something that is derivative of the original formula. A jet pack placed on the map for people to rush to pick up would be derivative. Yes, I am not in favor of adding sprint as a base trait. That said, so long as everyone has it, then it works. The thing with Halo 4 is that not everyone is getting sprint but they are also getting the option to choose between seeing through walls or becoming invisible off the start. That breaks the rule of equality on spawn.
I'm down with this. Obviously tight gun-play and physics are included. Other than that, I don't know what else would define Halo unless we start talking about campaign. I think Halo had a system, and armor abilities broke that system. If Halo had been on its last leg, perhaps a change could be justified. But it again comes down to developers wanting to change the game simply for the sake of changing the game, which I'll never agree with, ever.
 
Does anyone know the MP lead's gamertag? How many games of online Halo has he played? Just curious.

Let's say we get it. What number would be acceptable to you? How would you accomodate for the in-house playtesting that will never show up on his gamertag? What about multiplayer games he has played on other systems?
 
You ever play Rainbow Six? Or Ghost Recon? Or Team Fortress?
Honestly, even COD MW2 had pretty good weapon balance besides a few oddballs.

It is definitely possible to have unlocks be balanced.
I think "pretty good" balance is the best you could hope for, but I still think any aspect of the shooter repertoire unlocked is still an advantage. At the very least it gives the higher level more player more options to tune their loadout to their style whereas lower level players just have to make due.

I'm not anti-unlocks and I'm not saying they're woefully unbalanced in one game or another, just that they are by definition imbalanced in the higher level player's favor.
 

Kibbles

Member
ibgRS9dgiQon1e.gif
 

Karl2177

Member
Something derivative of this...

Halo for me is when all players spawn with the same base traits, no changes (loadouts). All of the players have the same starting weapon. Each player has a regenerating energy shield. Each player has two weapon slots. There are set locations where set weapons appear at set intervals on the map. The player may pick up said weapons if he chooses. The whole game is built around shooting, throwing grenades, and bashing things in with the but of your gun.

That is more or less it.

Now I said derivative. Dual wielding was derivative. Equipment, poorly implemented as it was, was derivative. Even assassinations, though I do not like them, are derivative. AA's are not, the break the idea of initial equality on spawn.

If you want to make a change to Halo you should not break the base traits that define the game. Do you want a new feature for Halo 4? Add something that is derivative of the original formula. A jet pack placed on the map for people to rush to pick up would be derivative. Yes, I am not in favor of adding sprint as a base trait. That said, so long as everyone has it, then it works. The thing with Halo 4 is that not everyone is getting sprint but they are also getting the option to choose between seeing through walls or becoming invisible off the start. That breaks the rule of equality on spawn.
This. So much of this.

Also, are people seriously defending stuff that we may or may not learn in the future? smh
 

feel

Member
Let's say we get it. What number would be acceptable to you? How would you accomodate for the in-house playtesting that will never show up on his gamertag? What about multiplayer games he has played on other systems?
No need to get defensive, I was genuinely curious about how active he might've been in online Halo, his most played playlists, etc.
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
This. So much of this.

Also, are people seriously defending stuff that we may or may not learn in the future? smh

i think some of us actual like reach, even with its flaws. halo 4 sounds like an evolution of reach. its not a stretch to imagine that it's predecessors shortcomings have been addressed.

One unlockable armor ability will be sunglasses.

deal with it.

:)
 

ZalinKrow

Member
My major issue with AAs in its current form is what you just said. I don't feel like I should have to change my play style so dramatically to even the playing field (choosing another ability mid game) to kill one player that is abusing a certain AA. I feel that my play style should be supported no matter what and I should not punished for not using jetpack on uncaged, so to speak. Each play style should be fully supported or at least properly balanced.
Yeah, I can't really disagree with any of that. You make a good point :) I guess I just don't mind altering my play style when I feel I need to. I generally try to switch it up based on what way the other team is playing. Although I almost always pick hologram on Countdown, shit's hilarious :p
 
I'd like to turn this around and get you to answer this question actually.

I don't think there is a number. I don't think you can accurately quantify one's knowledge of Halos multiplayer. Certainly not to the point where one can say "It's ok guys, he's played 5,000 games of Halo: Reach, 5,500 of Halo 3 and 2,200 of Halo 2 online". Ok, how many times had we played Smallworld before Friday night? 0. From a balance perspective, do you think that after just one game, we had a fair idea as to how the game was balanced? Applied to Halo, I'm sure most players can identify balance to some degree from a game or two. We know he hasn't ust played one game though. You can't get that job and not playtest, not see the issues that arise and not balance them in some way before launch. If he was given that position, I can't imagine it was given lightly.
 

Myyke

Neo Member
This. So much of this.

Also, are people seriously defending stuff that we may or may not learn in the future? smh

What stuff in particular do you mean Karl? Yeah, most of the Halo 4 arguments are going to be theoretical, based on the little info we have. Surely though, the optimists among us should be able to deliver counter-arguments to those who are quite willing to attack the proposed changes based on, I stress again, the little information we have?
 
No need to get defensive, I was genuinely curious about how active he might've been in online Halo, his most played playlists, etc.

Yeah and I'm sure you wouldn't judge him (as a multiplayer designer for Halo 4) any differently if he only played social FFA, right?
 

kylej

Banned

This map reminds me of Assembly, with Narrows' aesthetic except with more annoying lighting and places for nades to get stuck on.

But hey, it's still about 14 trillion times better than the other revealed map which was described by BS Angel like this

You look to the left and see nothing but industrial, man-made surfaces. A glance to the right, however, reveals space as far as the eye can see. As you wander around one of the exposed platforms on a mysterious mining ship, you become captivated by the dramatic vista.

After working your way through the numerous levels, stairs, and crates that litter the outer deck, you sneak a furtive glance inside the spacecraft, which reveals the sounds and shape of a half-constructed mech. Curiosity gets the better of you, and you decide to venture down the vessel’s tight and twisted corridors for a closer look.

14cgswm(1).gif
 

Kibbles

Member
This map reminds me of Assembly, with Narrows' aesthetic except with more annoying lighting and places for nades to get stuck on.

But hey, it's still about 14 trillion times better than the other revealed map which was described by BS Angel like this



14cgswm(1).gif

Yeah Warhouse looks like shit, I'd be happy to never see that map or any map that looks like it again in future media from Halo 4.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
So how credible is that November 6 release date rumor?

Also: getting on to dong.
 
I don't think there is a number. I don't think you can accurately quantify one's knowledge of Halos multiplayer. Certainly not to the point where one can say "It's ok guys, he's played 5,000 games of Halo: Reach, 5,500 of Halo 3 and 2,200 of Halo 2 online". Ok, how many times had we played Smallworld before Friday night? 0. From a balance perspective, do you think that after just one game, we had a fair idea as to how the game was balanced? Applied to Halo, I'm sure most players can identify balance to some degree from a game or two. We know he hasn't ust played one game though. You can't get that job and not playtest, not see the issues that arise and not balance them in some way before launch. If he was given that position, I can't imagine it was given lightly.
Good post, just wanted to hear you say it.
So how credible is that November 6 release date rumor?
*shrug* No more credible than any other.
 

Karl2177

Member
What stuff in particular do you mean Karl?

Putting your hope on them explaining not only how everything is balanced, but why it is balanced. From the details we have Forerunner Vision not only has an idiotic name, but it sounds incredibly OP. I hope I'm not the only one remembering all of the pre-Reach stuff where they said all AAs have pros and cons that balance each other out. In the end, none of it really was balanced out, and we were led on by words. Honestly, the only way I know it will be balanced is actually giving it a try, not simply trusting you saying that it "feels like Halo".

You know, I really want to see what everyone thinks 'Halo' really is. It is such a diverse thing, it always gets thrown around; but yet no one has really nailed down what it is to them besides Barlow. They seem to casually toss "Well that's not what Halo is to me", or "it doesn't feel like Halo".
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Winning anniversary slayer, 26-13, working as a team... Teammates then start shooting my party member and I. We lose.

Frankie, just give me the ban hammer for 2 hours. :p
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
I'm not going to make a call on how good the layout of Warhouse is because obviously, I haven't played it. I will say that it looks ugly.

I really like Wraparound though, in both its aesthetic and what I know of its layout.
 
Let's say we get it. What number would be acceptable to you? How would you accomodate for the in-house playtesting that will never show up on his gamertag? What about multiplayer games he has played on other systems?

Considering its his job and supposedly he.she should be passionate about also. I would say at least 5000 games played (diverse across playlists/gametypes) in every Halo game. Plus whatever isn't on his gamertags. Possibly extensive FPS and other game knowledge on a computer and other systems as well.

However I'd be open to hear why people think more or less...I'm really just throwing off a starting point. Since most people here have hit that number and a few ate that number in two months (HN)
 
is that a rocket spawn icon on the right side of the screen?

Its funny, because one explanation/justification for armor abilities in Reach was because new players didn't really understand when and how to use equipment in Halo 3.

Now, the justification for moving away from static, timed power weapons is because new players don't know where power weapons are, or when they will appear. Now you don't need to watch the clock or learn the map.. who cares! Wait for the blinking light to tell you where to pile-on.

Maybe it will be a good thing.. its not like more experienced players will just camp the power weapon and grenade the hell out of it while Command Derp and his split screen buddies make a dash for rockets.

I'm being nice here. We still haven't seen enough information.. I can't fault 343 for trying to pull in a new audience.
 
Its funny, because one explanation/justification for armor abilities in Reach, was because people didn't really understand when and how to use equipment in Halo 3.

Now, the justification for moving away from static, timed power weapons is because new players don't know where power weapons are, or when they will appear.

Dumbing the series down, game by game.
 
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