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Wii U Thread - Now in HD!

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chris3116

Member
So what negative comment did Bethesda make?

Edit: Never mind, found the thread, so lame. I officially give up on comparable third party Nintendo support. Oh well, would've been buggy anyways.

I give up a long time ago especially on the big ones. Nintendo could have the most powerful machine ever made and the 3rd party (especially western developers) would still say the same thing. Nintendo could try to get a game from them and it would still be the same.

Nintendo needs to have a different library than the other 2 consoles with having the mainstream 3rd party games.
 

Chaplain

Member
ikb3UjSRSVdln.gif


That looks awesome!

Hopefully Nintendo will have filters that can be turned on and off for the next Zelda (like Uncharted 2 had).
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
Resident Evil 6 - Possible, but given the upcoming release on 360/PS3 maybe unlikely to be announced next week
Dishonored - No, just see Bethesda's attitude towards Wii U
Far Cry 3 - Probably unlikely given the mature content, also else it probably would've been mentioned already (and I think they already commented on that)
Crysis 3 - No, see Yerli's comments regarding Wii U
Bioshock Infinite - No, see Take-Two's comments regarding Wii U and/or the fact that they seem to be having development problems
Tomb Raider - No, see the Crystal Dynamics excuse
GTA 5 - Maybe, probably unlikely, but definitely won't be announced next week
Dead Space 3 - Maybe, probably not, because EA

So these games have a slim to no chance of coming to the WiiU. When PS4/720 release, I wonder what the WiiU landscape is going to look like in terms of games.

Pretty much the same as the Wii? Great first party games, exclusive third party games, and pretty much no major third party games like the list above?
 

JordanN

Banned
How can you keep saying it's on-par with x360 if you don't know that?

And quite franky not the most of it, what we'll uncover when Rosti (and others) opens up the machine.

You're wasting your time dude. He has an agenda and I bet he's going stay that way even after the system is ripped open and confirmed more powerful for the 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x time.

Just watch...
 

Anth0ny

Member
Even after Reggie's Skyrim callout? :/

Nintendo really needs to do better... Bethesda's one of the western devs they should've been specifically targeting to incentivise and bring on board. Same for Valve, Rockstar N/SD, Irrational, etc. Megapubs like Ubisoft, EA or Activision are expected, but Nintendo always seems to get lazy/content and just stop there.

It really does seem like they just want to check boxes.

Journalist: reggie y u no 3rd party

Reggie: You know, I think we have the best third party support. We got Batman, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Madden, FIFA and Call of Duty! Those are the biggest third party games of the year! You know, check that box!
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I was getting excited about the WiiU launch this year, but if I end up moving to Europe early next year, I'll have to put off purchasing a system. I can't tell you how much I HATE region locking at this point. The world is a global place and people DO move around. The fact that I cannot enjoy a console purchased in one region in another is beyond frustrating. It's much worse with handhelds, though. Region locking on 3DS? I just bought a f*cking XL and now I'll have to buy a European unit if I want to keep buying new games.

There is no chance of the WiiU being region free I'm sure. :(

I couldn't be happier with the way Sony handles this issue.
 

Stewox

Banned
That U is really for us.

Wii = mainstream
U = hardcore

A name that felt so stupid when announced totally summarises the point of the console.

Wii = touchscreen
U = sticks & buttons

Wii = DRC Only
U = HDTV + DRC

Wii = mass market
U = gamer in dark room (with a picture of iwata/carmack on wall)


Also:
You see the mainstream crying about how nintendo is not making enough hype, here's the catch, they don't want too much, don't want to overblow initial orders, they said they'll get more core game in beginning, so core customers are less than casual, for the initial numbers it wouldn't be nearly enough to satisfy all, if they went full-power there would be tons of casuals getting the console ... there wouldn't be games for casuals to play and the core people would have shortage.

An analyst was recently whining over lack of hype.


You're wasting your time dude.

That's the first time I've quoted him about this.

And it wasn't a chinese wall of text.
 

JordanN

Banned
The game should look like that. It's close though, but there is a lot more detail in that picture.
If that's your idea of close, I wonder what you think more powerful consoles can achieve...


That's the first time I've quoted him about this.

And it wasn't a chinese wall of text.
You shouldn't even quote. The answer he will give is obvious or not the one you want.
 
Man, I passed out shamefully early last night...

1. '20-odd GB/s'? A modest DDR3-1600 @128bit bus is 25.6GB/s, DDR3-1866 is 29.9GB/s, and state-of-the-art DDR3-2133 is 34GB/s.
2. edram BW can be in the many hundreds of GB/s, at latencies GDDR5 could not even dream about. You entirely lost me with that 'not going to help on the inbound side'.

It seems we have enough confirmation of 1.5 GB total in recent days to go with that safely for the time being. Thus we'd likely be dealing with a 96 or 192 bit bus, correct?

Re: the "inbound side," we still don't know how the eDRAM will function. "Merely" a framebuffer? What about the possibility of it acting as a fully read/write cache to the GPU? Assist in compute functions and whatnot?

Not to mention you're not limited to a 128bit bus anyway. POWER7 memory bandwidth is 128GB/s on DDR3 (two quad channel memory controllers).

Wouldn't that require a great amount of actual DDR3 chips to accomplish? The best single chip I've heard of for bandwidth is 4 gigabit with a 32-bit interface. If they're using DDR3 in part due to cost reasons, I'd expect them to go with 6 more common 2 gigabit 16 bit i/o chips just for now.

Also, I think we should be expecting low clock speeds due to 4 factors: TDP, Nintendo's history of playing it safe w/ clocks, developer rumblings, and RAM roadmaps. Regarding that last one, I have only so far found DDR3 1600 as far as 4 gigabit chips. 1.5 GB of that on a 96-bit bus is 19.2 GB/s, I believe.

Bottom line for non-techies, and why I'm so concerned with this aspect of specs, is this directly relates to in-game performance. Frames per second. Especially in open world style games with lots of high quality textures, memory bandwidth is crucial. I am hoping they have not settled for an option that is below 360 levels. And I don't see the eDRAM aiding much at all on this, unless it can be used as a texture cache. But now I'm starting to get techie again...
 

RAWi

Member
Oh wow... for the first time I had to go to Page 2, to enter this thread... xD

----

In other news. That GameInformer issue has my interest o3o. I want to know about NSMB U, that game will continue the awesomeness of playing with 3 more people at the same time. The chaos in that game will be delicious :D
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
How can you keep saying it's on-par with x360 if you don't know that?

There has been quite a few quotes from devs stating that the CPU is not a powerhouse and can be slower relative to performance then the Xenon and Cell.

There was also a very brief exchange of views on B3D where a guy stated very resolutely that it was going to be a single thread per core.

GPU wise. I believe it's slightly better then what we have for the current HD twins but it's got the additional burden of having to power both screens. The fact that all of the non simple Mii type launch games games are at 720p backs that up.

More memory certainly helps. But so does having 5 years experience on really pushing PS360. I'm not sure how many 3rd party devs are willing to sink that amount of time into WiiU especially when PS720 comes along.

I still think the best looking games are going to come from Nintendo but that might take a while.
 

kinggroin

Banned
Other thread died so I'll just repost my crazy ramblings here:

Make it a 1080p 60fps standard or no go, for 3rd parties on the system (1st party as well).

Multi console support is going to likely be shit anyway (especially once the competition releases their almost assuredly overpriced fun boxes), so why not have something you can claim the others can't. Plus, imagine the ninty titles and their art style being displayed with that kind of performance/image quality? Developers couldn't shoehorn games at that res, and will either be forced to be artistically creative or gtfo. Kinda like gfx equivalent of the wiimote.

Its a stupid wish, I know. Most folks will probably still be using composite cables to go along with their shiny new LED TV they over paid for

Waddaya guys think?
 

AlStrong

Member

It's extremely unlikely they have anywhere close to 4.5x the raw pixel/texel/zixel fillrate of current gen to support that (if you generalize this gen as 720p30). Even then, it's not like it was that great this gen either. There are other bottlenecks, but this is pretty important for a simple increase. ;)
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Other thread died so I'll just repost my crazy ramblings here:



Waddaya guys think?

So what you're saying is, if there is a multiplatform game that runs at 720P and at 30fps on PS360 then the WiiU should be able to run that game at 1080p and at 60fps. Is that what you're saying?
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Other thread died so I'll just repost my crazy ramblings here:



Waddaya guys think?

if making shit 1080p/60fps were so easy, they'd do it.

I'd rather have more fancy stuff in there than to have a higher resolution, honestly. And not every game needs 60 frames and you'd barely notice the difference.

so, hell no!
 
if making shit 1080p/60fps were so easy, they'd do it.

I'd rather have more fancy stuff in there than to have a higher resolution, honestly. And not every game needs 60 frames and you'd barely notice the difference.

so, hell no!
Yup. You can have a pretty freakin game that is boring as hell. Id rather have something like Rayman in a lot of ways
 

kinggroin

Banned
It's extremely unlikely they have anywhere close to 4.5x the raw pixel/texel/zixel fillrate of current gen to support that (if you generalize this gen as 720p30). Even then, it's not like it was that great this gen either. There are other bottlenecks, but this is pretty important. ;)

So what you're saying is, if there is a multiplatform game that runs at 720P and at 30fps on PS360 then the WiiU should be able to run that game at 1080p and at 60fps. Is that what you're saying?


Oh...well what I'm actually saying is crazier than that.

I don't believe the Wii u success will depend on the half assed 3rd party support its more than likely going to get. So why not just forget about what it can and can't port from other platforms.

Enforce this 1080p 60fps standard and developers will have to bring exclusives that leverage great art direction rather than shaders shaders real life (that the Wii u will struggle with once next gen is full on in motion).


Unless they are prepared to go money hatting crazy, I'd bet anything that most gamers will stay with one of the other guys for their "hardcore gaming" needs. Ecosystems are already well established and outside of Nintendo faithful, who's going to be buying Assassins Creed for the Wii U over other platforms.

I'm saying forget about multi plats because its a dead end for them IMO. Forcing the 1080p 60fps standard is a sort of artificial barrier to force new different content than what everyone else is getting. Focus on the strengths of the Nintendo platform. I think nearly every game they have in their cache would work out fine under this mandate, while potentially looking as good as what ps4 and 720 are putting out thanks to raw IQ/Performance and art style.


Its also a bullet point they'll have that the others possibly can't (due to the pressure of pushing the visual barrier)

Edit: and to the guy above, Rayman actually fits this idea in fact.


And before the insults come, I'm well aware of how absurd the suggestion is. I'm just spit balling here.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
We know if there's going to be any way to tell which Wii games will require motion controls? It seems that the idea is to give options, but I'd rather not use my wiimotes ever again. The problem I had with the Wii was never about power but about, well, sort of power, the fact that it was 480 and the fact that the majority of games used motion controls in one way or another. It's part of what turned me off Galaxy initially. But all the e3 WiiU demo stuff showed people playing with either the pad or the new classic controller
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Oh...well what I'm actually saying is crazier than that.

So why not just forget about what it can and can't port from other platforms.

So only allow ports that can run at 1080p @ 60fps. ha ha. Yes, that is crazy.

It'll never happen though. Nintendo are trying to gain 3rd party support. Not cripple it.
 

kinggroin

Banned
So only allow ports that can run at 1080p @ 60fps. Yes. ha ha. Yes, that is crazy.

It'll never happen though. Nintendo are trying to gain 3rd party support. Not cripple it.


Ha, yeah its crazy indeed.

I guess I just feel 3rd party support, at least the way I thought ninty fans wanted, is already out of the question. The system will more than likely be severely underpowered and treated like a red-headed step child once the other two land. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Ha, yeah its crazy indeed.

I guess I just feel 3rd party support, at least the way I thought ninty fans wanted, is already out of the question. The system will more than likely be severely underpowered and treated like a red-headed step child once the other two land. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

Yes. A tad too pessimistic.

I think 3rd party support will be.... Okay. Not great but okay.

The fears about the level of support when the other two land is reasonable. I share that too.
 

japtor

Member
It's actually not a too reasonable standpoint to take all (or rather some) things considered, especially from a business viewpoint. 

Launch games sell disproportionately well and by ignoring Wii U they're shutting themselves out from a potentially significant console (market) with a head start of (maybe) a year. If Wii U succeeds they have to pray that it doesn't slow down 720/PS4. They would have no backup plan since by then their traditional audience wouldn't have been built up. If Wii U doesn't succeed they might've wasted a few millions, but given the amount of money lost this gen throughout the industry that can't hurt too much.
Their comments are pretty reasonable, and they could apply to any new platform. Hell most of the quotes appear to be about next gen in general.
When i did some light reading on power cores and eDRAM something that caught my attention is that it mentioned something like 'it can feed and feed data', so maybe it's something down to the way the hardware is set up that data in the RAM can be stored, moved and shifted around in a way that it essentially gives the same ability that much more physical RAM would.

Don't listen to anything i'm saying though, i'm a bloody numbskull.
My theory a little while back is that they'd used the SLC flash as a disk buffer/giant disk cache, which could help reduce RAM requirements...at least in the cases that RAM is used that way. It wouldn't be the same as having that much RAM (since it's magnitudes faster than storage flash) but it's a case where it could help if utilized.
Hey there's a clip of Lego City without the screen tearing to shit.
 

Sadist

Member
Hmmm so

The studio making the Mass Effect 3 port for Wii U is making another Wii U original game and maybe another Wii U port?
 

RAWi

Member
Hmmm so

The studio making the Mass Effect 3 port for Wii U is making another Wii U original game and maybe another Wii U port?

Yup. The Wii U port, from a well-known franchise, will be arriving next year, 2013. Interested to know wich franchise they are talking about, but more intersted in the new IP.
 
Mass Effect 3 Wii U developer "very conscious of not wanting to mess up"

Mass Effect 3 Wii U developer Straight Right has an unenviable task. The Australian studio is BioWare's go-to team for relaunching the critically-acclaimed Mass Effect 3 on new hardware, with all-new controls and all for an as-yet untested market.
So what was the mood within the developer, as the team embark on Mass Effect 3 Wii U's home stretch?
"We're very conscious of not wanting to mess up," Straight Right boss Tom Crago explained to Eurogamer, "given the level of expectation and the fact that we're taking something which, on PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 and PC, was exceptionally good."

"You look at the game and think 'how could I possibly make this better?' The Wii U gives you that opportunity with the GamePad. But first and foremost you say, 'well, I don't want to screw this up'.

"You want to replicate the experience on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 as sympathetically as possible. But then you say, 'how can I enhance this experience?'. We tried to get the game looking great and singing on Wii U, and then use the GamePad to complement this."

The space-opera's new touch-screen controls allow players to see a map of their immediate surroundings, with squadmates and enemies highlighted. Players can also quickly select powers to use in battle, or play the entire game on the GamePad tablet.

With a last layer of polish to add, Crago expects Mass Effect 3 to be ready for the Wii U launch - whenever that will be.

"It's going to be a launch title, but of course we don't know quite yet when the hardware will launch. We intend to be there that same day."

It's far from a rushed project, either. Straight Right has had over a year to get used to the Wii U's hardware and touch-screen controller - work began months before Mass Effect 3 ever saw light of day on other platforms.

"It's challenging", Crago said of meeting the unannounced Wii U release date, but added the team was used to working to such challenges with unreleased hardware.
"First and foremost you say, 'well, I don't want to screw this up'."
Tom Crago, Straight Right CEO

While Straight Right is a fairly new company, it benefits from working alongside sister outfit Tantalus, a veteran of the Australian game development scene. Established in 1994, it has worked on 30 games with names such as Sega Japan, Psygnosis and Midway.

That isn't to reduce the scale of the Wii U Mass Effect 3 project, Crago explained.

"This is the biggest title we've worked on in a long time. There's a significant technical challenge bringing the game from its original format to the Wii U. It's a new, different and sophisticated piece of hardware, so there's a good deal of technical energy that's been expended making that happen."

Its looks are "just as good" as the other console versions, he added.

Straight Right has no bad words for the hardware - something which isn't too surprising when Crago mentions the company is already at work on two other Wii U projects.

"We've made a number of bets on the Wii U, so we're certainly hoping that the platform comes strongly out of the gate. We've got two other titles in development.

"One of them is original, our own IP, and another is based on another big franchise that will come out in 2013. It's a big title and you will have heard of it,"
he teased.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Hey there's a clip of Lego City without the screen tearing to shit.

Finally.

I need to see some solid footage without screen tearing and it's day one for me. That game looks fantastic and my kids will love it.
 
not sure if I am off that day or not. Gamestop is making all managers work the 13th so I might luck out and get that day off...or if they actually stream it to store that could work too.All I need to se is Wave Race and I'm day 1. But if I know gamestop, the skus will be in the computer that morning......so we might get a heads up,since I don't think the pos can take massive mid day updates.
 

jacksrb

Member
not sure if I am off that day or not. Gamestop is making all managers work the 13th so I might luck out and get that day off...or if they actually stream it to store that could work too.All I need to se is Wave Race and I'm day 1. But if I know gamestop, the skus will be in the computer that morning......so we might get a heads up,since I don't think the pos can take massive mid day updates.

I assume that you mean pos to mean the Point of Sale, but I giggled reading your post.
 

japtor

Member
I honestly don't quite see how it's reasonable (without any additional internal knowledge), could anyone please elaborate ?
Well it's not like they're using crazy logic. You may not necessarily agree with it (which is fine) but that doesn't make their stance unreasonable.
"For me the problems with new consoles are two-fold," he added. "The developers are trying to hit a moving technical target, because the platforms are being built. A new console doesn't just show up a year before launch and is exactly what it will be when it comes out.

"It moves and iterates along the way. And introducing something like that to games that are in development is always a bit tricky. And that is obviously an element of risk."

Hines is also concerned that the relatively few amount of people who jump onto next-generation consoles initially will "divide your audience".

"The second point is that your install base always starts at zero," he continued. "Then it comes out and suddenly a certain number of people buy it but it won't be the same number as the current gen. So you have divided your audience.

"It's then a case of: Are we just making it for the next gen? Or next gen and current gen? And how many people from the current gen that I'm targeting have moved over to the next gen? It does complicate things a little bit.
If they wait they don't have to deal with fluctuating hardware and don't have to worry about catering to the old platforms once the userbase is mostly moved over to new hardware. It's just a conservative approach. They may not gain as much as if they got in early and got a foothold, but they don't risk as much this way.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Man, I passed out shamefully early last night...
Tsk tsk tsk.

It seems we have enough confirmation of 1.5 GB total in recent days to go with that safely for the time being. Thus we'd likely be dealing with a 96 or 192 bit bus, correct?
Correct. I was commenting on a post though, not on what we expect, let alone my expectations ; )

Re: the "inbound side," we still don't know how the eDRAM will function. "Merely" a framebuffer? What about the possibility of it acting as a fully read/write cache to the GPU? Assist in compute functions and whatnot?
Even if it's merely a framebuffer, there can still be a massive BW associated with that: a single non-HDR RGBA 720p target @30fps, zero overdraw and write-only pixels is merely 220MB/s. Make that a more reasonable x3 overdraw and it's already ~700MB/s. Make that read-modify-write (z-buffers can't be anything else) and it immediately doubles to 1.4GB/s. Add two more similar targets and it's 4.5GB/s. Make them half-precision HDR and BW jumps to 6.75GB/s. Add some FSAA to one of those targets and the numbers can start approaching 8GB/s (note that I'm not adding the effect from Nx FSAA as a dumb Nx multiplier as depending on the actual AA algorithms involved and possible extra circuitry, those can use clever lossless compressions). And we haven't even begun talking about pathological BW hogs like deferred shading algorithms! .. Ok, well, we did specify 3 targets : ) But the thing is, all that BW not being served by the UMA pool leaves more of the latter's BW for actual texel cache feeds.

All that said, no, I don't expect U-GPU's edram to be a mere framebuffer.

Wouldn't that require a great amount of actual DDR3 chips to accomplish? The best single chip I've heard of for bandwidth is 4 gigabit with a 32-bit interface. If they're using DDR3 in part due to cost reasons, I'd expect them to go with 6 more common 2 gigabit 16 bit i/o chips just for now.
So do I. But not necessarily 'plain' DDR3 - could be gDDR3 as well.

Also, I think we should be expecting low clock speeds due to 4 factors: TDP, Nintendo's history of playing it safe w/ clocks, developer rumblings, and RAM roadmaps. Regarding that last one, I have only so far found DDR3 1600 as far as 4 gigabit chips.
Samsung, for one, have faster 4Gb parts (@20nm) on their '12 roadmaps, if their site is to be believed. If you followed the above link, though, their 2Gb/s gDDR3 has been readily available in 2Gb packages.

1.5 GB of that on a 96-bit bus is 19.2 GB/s, I believe.
Yes. For 'plain ol' DDR3-1600, that'd be the net BW.
 
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