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[Craig Majaski]

Is game informer worth a subscription? I don't want to play $4.99 just for the NSMBU reveal. But $20 for 12 issues seems badass, just read the free April issue on my iPad.

Well honestly - if you have a GameStop near you the best deal is to sign up for Digital GI in the store - it's $5 less ($14.99) and you get a full year of the digital mag - plus you get the Power Up Rewards Pro card - which gives you discounts in store and a Buy 2 Get 1 Free coupon. Way better deal. Oh, and I think it's worth $15 a year - especially with the iPad - it runs great on there.

 

[Oersted]

It already happened....motion controls and the Wii and touchscreen controls with the DS. The next big leap will probably be the VR headsets from Sony.

serious?

 

[jmizzal]

Nintendo Land is looking better and better

Since its in GI mag maybe they wont spend all day on it on the 13

 

[Craig Majaski]

Yeah and it looks like only 3 Nintendo games for Wii U this year:

Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendoland
Ninja Gaiden 3 (Yes they're publishing it)

with a slight possibility of:

Lego City

Pikmin 3 is 95% next year (as is Project 100).

 

[10k]

serious?

Serious. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2011/11/16/sony-s-3d-headset-virtual-reality-goes-mainstream

 

[Oersted]

Serious. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2011/11/16/sony-s-3d-headset-virtual-reality-goes-mainstream

for Sony's widely anticipated 3D headset

i lol´ed. noone outside the tech world gives a shitty fuck

 

[japtor]

One would think this would be a 'study case' on how NOT to launch a system...but then you have Apple that does this an almost exact replica of this strategy and it work flawless for them. Is amazing how one strategy can fail a company completely and yet works perfectly for another O_O

Then again in apples case is that the product is simply a continuity of an existing best selling product, all the software is digital (so no worries about stock, etc, etc) AND everything made for past hardware usually works on the new hardware so the software is already there.

Their products work fine alone too, like if you just want a tablet for browsing and mail and other basic stuff, the iPad does that out of the box, vs a game console where the main use is enabled with separate software. Plus they handle a lot of distribution with their own online and physical stores along with the other traditional retailers (although Amazon and a few others don't get iPhones and iPads actually).

The issue with the Saturn is that they apparently didn't tell anyone so no one else in the chain was prepared. Developers weren't ready, stores weren't ready, and they pissed a lot of them off. With Apple there's a semi recognizable pattern, like stocks/shipments get low, new model numbers appear in systems, everyone is sort of prepared for new stuff vs being completely caught off guard.

 

[Oersted]

Yeah and it looks like only 3 Nintendo games for Wii U this year:

Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendoland
Ninja Gaiden 3 (Yes they're publishing it)

with a slight possibility of:

Lego City

Pikmin 3 is 95% next year (as is Project 100).

...?its in development for quite some time and it looks really completed to me.

 

[Earendil]

What's the opposite of megaton? That's what we'll get on the 13th.

An inverse tachyon pulse.

 

[Error Macro]

Pikmin 3 is 95% next year (as is Project 100).

Hmm, if Pikmin is indeed next year, maybe Nintendo will respond to the cries of "bu-bu-bu, it looks like a Wii game" and throw in some tessellation (or at the least some heavy duty bump mapping) and super high-res textures.

 

[chertipros]

Hmm, if Pikmin is indeed next year, maybe Nintendo will respond to the cries of "bu-bu-bu, it looks like a Wii game" and throw in some tessellation (or at the least some heavy duty bump mapping) and super high-res textures.

This is kind of off topic, but i see the word thrown around all the time. What is tessellation exactly in layman's terms?

 

[Penguin]

Yeah and it looks like only 3 Nintendo games for Wii U this year:

Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendoland
Ninja Gaiden 3 (Yes they're publishing it)

with a slight possibility of:

Lego City

Pikmin 3 is 95% next year (as is Project 100).

I kind of expect Wii Fit U as well this year

But could see Pikmin in Jan/Feb
Project P-100 in April

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Pikmin is 99% this year

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

Pikmin 3 is 95% next year (as is Project 100).

This will be even more of a disappointment if it doesn't look improved.

 

[The M.O.B]

This is kind of off topic, but i see the word thrown around all the time. What is tessellation exactly in layman's terms?

Makes things bumpy, and it's not an illusion.

Basically providing more detail and depth.

WiiU GPU can do it most likely, but I doubt it will be used often.

 

[Error Macro]

This is kind of off topic, but i see the word thrown around all the time. What is tessellation exactly in layman's terms?

It's basically the function of cutting up polygons into smaller pieces, which is used in conjunction with a displacement map to create things like smoother curves on characters and objects, and in the case of Pikmin, could be used to create more detailed ground surfaces, and the surfaces of objects like plant leaves and tree stumps, etc.

Here's a pretty good explanation with some examples: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tessellation.html

[edit] Yeah, what he said ^^ Haha

 

[chertipros]

Makes things bumpy, and it's not an illusion.

Basically providing more detail and depth.

It's basically the function of cutting up polygons into smaller pieces, which is used in conjunction with a displacement map to create things like smoother curves on characters and objects, and in the case of Pikmin, could be used to create more detailed ground surfaces, and the surfaces of objects like plant leaves and tree stumps, etc.

Here's a pretty good explanation with some examples: http://www.nvidia.com/object/tessellation.html

Oh ok. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[EatChildren]

It should be noted that though the Wii U is technically capable of tessellation, we do not know the efficiency or processing cost. The 360 could also tessellate but usage was few and far between, and not comparable to modern tessellation.

 

[SolidSnakex]

...?its in development for quite some time and it looks really completed to me.

Have they shown a build of Lego City Undercover that didn't look extremely rough (nasty framerate and tearing issues)?

 

[Error Macro]

It should be noted that though the Wii U is technically capable of tessellation, we do not know the efficiency or processing cost. The 360 could also tessellate but usage was few and far between, and not comparable to modern tessellation.

Hopefully those rumors of developers not being particularly impressed with the earliest Wii U GPU proposals, and which caused Nintendo to go back and make sure things were "brought up to 2012 specs," turn out to have some truth in them...

 

[TheNatural]

I don't like the "just like Super Mario World" stuff.

It remains to be seen if the NSMB U game will live up to SMW, and because the map layout is the same is an improvement - but its just a map. Nintendo broke out the past "tribute" in NSMB 2 for 3DS with Raccoon Mario, but critical response sure hasn't been on the level of the game it is referencing.

Seems Nintendo is stringing along people with some of these references in a cheap way. Wouldn't be surprised if NSMB 5 comes out in 2 years - now with Kuribo's Shoe as a big gameplay gimmick.

 

[JordanN]

Hopefully those rumors of developers not being particularly impressed with the earliest Wii U GPU proposals, and which caused Nintendo to go back and make sure things were "brought up to 2012 specs," turn out to have some truth in them...

Which rumors were that?

 

[lwilliams3]

Hopefully those rumors of developers not being particularly impressed with the earliest Wii U GPU proposals, and which caused Nintendo to go back and make sure things were "brought up to 2012 specs," turn out to have some truth in them...

I recall hearing this before, but where did that rumor come from? I believe Bgassassin may have mentioned it recently in the thread, but is this older than that?

 

[chertipros]

Which rumors were that?

BGA mentioned it around 3 pages ago

 

[TheCongressman1]

Seems Nintendo is stringing along people with some of these references in a cheap way. Wouldn't be surprised if NSMB 5 comes out in 2 years - now with Kuribo's Shoe as a big gameplay gimmick.

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. I hope that's not what is happening here.

 

[antonz]

It should be noted that though the Wii U is technically capable of tessellation, we do not know the efficiency or processing cost. The 360 could also tessellate but usage was few and far between, and not comparable to modern tessellation.

It basically comes down to Nintendo and how they jury rigged Compute Shader support etc in. If they really did go the true DX11 compute shaders route then tessellation should be pretty smooth but if they jury rigged the 10.1 support of compute shaders its as you say near worthless

 

[lwilliams3]

I was thinking the same thing earlier today. I hope that's not what is happening here.

As of now, the NSMB series has only been released once per console. Since both NSMB2 and NSMBU can have DLC, it makes it more likely for that tradition to continue.

 

[shinra-bansho]

What's the timeframe of the rumor though, because is it really particularly likely that any of the hardware manufacturers would make significant changes within a year of release?

 

[PogiJones]

So I haven't been here in a while. What now is the DBZ powerlevel of the Wii U and the other current- and next-gen consoles?

 

[AzaK]

It basically comes down to Nintendo and how they jury rigged Compute Shader support etc in. If they really did go the true DX11 compute shaders route then tessellation should be pretty smooth but if they jury rigged the 10.1 support of compute shaders its as you say near worthless

If it was going to cost them anything more to be DX11 compliant vs 10.1, they'll take 10.1.

 

[TheCongressman1]

If it was going to cost them anything more to be DX11 compliant vs 10.1, they'll take 10.1.

Extremely sad, but true.

 

[antonz]

If it was going to cost them anything more to be DX11 compliant vs 10.1, they'll take 10.1.

That really depends. Compute Shader support in 10.1 is practically useless and wouldnt really be worth the effort but we know Compute Shaders are in.

 

[Terrell]

If it was going to cost them anything more to be DX11 compliant vs 10.1, they'll take 10.1.

Without knowing their cost analysis and what their target number was, it's unnecessarily cynical to say that.

 

[Data West]

Gamestop newz, got an e-mail saying we're supposed to get some WiiU box arts and make a 'big' WiiU section when they get here.

Also, no way Lego City isn't this year. A Lego game would be a killer for the Holiday season, and Lord of the Rings won't be on WiiU

 

[AzaK]

Without knowing their cost analysis and what their target number was, it's unnecessarily cynical to say that.

And being cynical about Nintendo is a bad thing? I'm pretty comfortable believing that they consider graphics secondary to almost everything else. If they can get ports of current gen and next to some degree (Iwata himself said he can't promise Wii U's tech will enable all ports next gen), make their games look good in HD and keep costs down, they will be happy. If they have to weigh up two options with all things being equal they will take the cheaper route. If it costs them nothing more, or is even cheaper these days to be 11 compliant (I'm talking optimised tessellation) I believe they will take it.

 

[lordfroakie]

Gamestop newz, got an e-mail saying we're supposed to get some WiiU box arts and make a 'big' WiiU section when they get here.

Also, no way Lego City isn't this year. A Lego game would be a killer for the Holiday season, and Lord of the Rings won't be on WiiU

Pretty sure Lego LOTR is coming to Wiiu lol

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

I really like the amusement park vibe I'm getting from the recent screenshots. I'm not a fan of the hub design, but little things like the Metroid Blast signs all over the arena really drive the theme park idea.

It really feels like I would be at a real amusement park. Just running around the central station with my Mii, spending Coins, and entering any game I want seems like it would feel much better than just hitting an icon on a menu.

Also, I see a Charge Shot in one of the pictures. I can't wait to see all of the different maps and power-ups. I hope each game scales as well as Metroid Blast for any number of players.

I think Nintendo Land has a great chance at not being a pack-in title. I know that if it's sold separately, I'll have a hard time not buying it.

 

[RAWi]

It already happened....motion controls and the Wii and touchscreen controls with the DS. The next big leap will probably be the VR headsets from Sony.

I don't think so much, but maybe could be because is a product that can be taken to more people.

Something similar was already made on the Arcades. There was one gaming machine that you would put on a similar headset, to visualize a Tank-like game, in which you are firing to different targets in a 360 degrees virtual space. Don't really remember the name of the game, but it looked like this...

 

[EatChildren]

It basically comes down to Nintendo and how they jury rigged Compute Shader support etc in. If they really did go the true DX11 compute shaders route then tessellation should be pretty smooth but if they jury rigged the 10.1 support of compute shaders its as you say near worthless

Pretty much. It's all speculation at this point, but if the rumours are accurately it seems Nintendo was/is primarily targeting a 10.1 equivalent GPU, and buckled to developer requests to 'modernise' it. The extent of that modernisation, if it happened at all, will dictate the efficiency and usefulness of GPU compute functions, and thus tessellation and all those other DX11 equivalent goodies.

I'm taking the cynical/pessimistic stance because, as far as I'm aware, documentation still classifies the GPU as DX10.1 comparable, and though it's possible DX11 equivalent compute support is documented separately for some reason and Nintendo never bothered to update the listed API beyond primarily 10.1, I'm not going to get my hopes up or excited over something I simply don't know.

 

[Terrell]

And being cynical about Nintendo is a bad thing?

I didn't say that.

By the same logic, I have little faith in humanity as a whole, but since I lack vital information to make a judgment about every single person, I give benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I would be unnecessarily cynical.

You have little faith in Nintendo to produce anything beyond the barest of bones, but since you lack vital information to make a judgment about any aspect of the design of this hardware (like what their target price is), you SHOULD give benefit of the doubt, as evidence prior to Wii suggests they don't cheap out just for the sake of it. Otherwise, you would be unnecessarily cynical.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Makes things bumpy, and it's not an illusion.

Basically providing more detail and depth.

WiiU GPU can do it most likely, but I doubt it will be used often.

Tessellation is not only for "bumpy" things.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

I don't like the "just like Super Mario World" stuff.

It remains to be seen if the NSMB U game will live up to SMW, and because the map layout is the same is an improvement - but its just a map. Nintendo broke out the past "tribute" in NSMB 2 for 3DS with Raccoon Mario, but critical response sure hasn't been on the level of the game it is referencing.

Seems Nintendo is stringing along people with some of these references in a cheap way. Wouldn't be surprised if NSMB 5 comes out in 2 years - now with Kuribo's Shoe as a big gameplay gimmick.

Well theres only 1 NSMB per console so we will be waiting for next next gen for our next dosage.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Well theres only 1 NSMB per console so we will be waiting for next next gen for our next dosage.

Even though I think Nintendo is taking too much from previous games without being more original, I can't say I'm really disappointed with how the game looks so far.

Until we play it in full, we won't know to the extent of how original it is. Hopefully Nintendo will make this one count and it will be the last in the "new" series for a while.

 

[bgassassin]

That really depends. Compute Shader support in 10.1 is practically useless and wouldnt really be worth the effort but we know Compute Shaders are in.

And the fact that DX10.1 hardware can only use CS through the DX11 API makes the situation kinda confusing in just how exactly was Nintendo planning to go about the GPU design.

Pretty much. It's all speculation at this point, but if the rumours are accurately it seems Nintendo was/is primarily targeting a 10.1 equivalent GPU, and buckled to developer requests to 'modernise' it. The extent of that modernisation, if it happened at all, will dictate the efficiency and usefulness of GPU compute functions, and thus tessellation and all those other DX11 equivalent goodies.

I'm taking the cynical/pessimistic stance because, as far as I'm aware, documentation still classifies the GPU as DX10.1 comparable, and though it's possible DX11 equivalent compute support is documented separately for some reason and Nintendo never bothered to update the listed API beyond primarily 10.1, I'm not going to get my hopes up or excited over something I simply don't know.

It's the proper stance to take. But with how Nintendo still didn't reveal things like clock speeds, who knows what else was hidden.

I was wrong MDX. Nintendo apparently hid things after all.

 

[D-e-f-]

Yeah and it looks like only 3 Nintendo games for Wii U this year:

Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendoland
Ninja Gaiden 3 (Yes they're publishing it)

with a slight possibility of:

Lego City

Pikmin 3 is 95% next year (as is Project 100).

Just because they're not talking about it much doesn't mean it's not coming out this year. It looked rough at E3 which is probably why they're not showing it at the experience events. I think they're showing Batman even though it's still the rough version because people already know the game itself is good. The TT Games people are probably killing themselves to finish the game in time right now.

 

[DrNeroCF]

And the fact that DX10.1 hardware can only use CS through the DX11 API makes the situation kinda confusing in just how exactly was Nintendo planning to go about the GPU design.



It's the proper stance to take. But with how Nintendo still didn't reveal things like clock speeds, who knows what else was hidden.

I was wrong MDX. Nintendo apparently hid things after all.

But developers have had access to compute shaders through ATI Stream, CUDA, and OpenCL before DX11, what about DX11 level shader hardware would effect developers' ability to use compute shaders in Nintendo's API anyway? Wouldn't they just roll their own that's closer to the metal? (hope I don't sound like someone clueless pretending they know what they're talking about here, heh)

Tessellation is not only for "bumpy" things.

Would it ever be a good idea to use tessellation on 'flat' surfaces...?

 

[ivysaur12]

Some time in... June last year?



Don't do this to yourself.



E.T. JRPG? I'd much rather X-Files.

*On a serious note: if I remember right, they were asking for mech design experience (for their Wii U game).*

Not quite. There's just a question of who owns the IP. It's likely Namco, which complicates things, but that doesn't kill any chance for another installment. It's also a very dear franchise to Honne and Koh Kojima, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something from it eventually, if a digital release of the first two or something on the 3DS.

But yes, whatever they're working on now for the Wii U is not a Baten Kaitos game.

 

[The_Lump]

Away for the weekend and have limited time online: anyone care to summarise what's happened in the last day? Seems to be a lot of posts!

 

[cyberheater]

Yeah and it looks like only 3 Nintendo games for Wii U this year:
Super Mario Bros. U
Nintendoland
Ninja Gaiden 3 (Yes they're publishing it)

Not exactly a super stellar launch line up from Nintendo first party if true.

 

[marc^o^]

WiiFit U will surely be a launch game with a strong push on eshop.