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[MadeInBeats]

Hasn't the scalability of UE4 always been one of it's headline features? I seem to recall them saying the engine was built to be easily scaled from next-gen hardware down to mobile phones.

I see no reason why the Wii U wouldn't fit into that at some degree.

I think there's 2 versions? Goes like Full-Fat gold top Jersey cow version and its puny brother for all other devices. And my memory retention for useless information tells me Wii U is getting the full fat flavour - that was the heavily hinted reliable (as reliable gets on here) rumour.

 

[CrispyXUK]

30hz, not 30fps

 

[StevieP]

Right, but the rendering pipeline in an engine like this is not going to be overly prescriptive. They talked about 'things getting interesting' beyond 1Tflop. Which I guess means using their full-fat lighting pipeline that they provide out of the box.

But that doesn't represent a cap. If you gave Epic, or another team, more to work with, they'd do different, better things.



The best looking console games don't typically cost that kind of money to make.

PC development does not push the high end because developers are either a) working off a console base (7 year old hw, basically), or b) keeping a door open to console ports or c) working with limited budget and resources and concentrating on other things and a wide hardware base.

Budgets won't change a lot next gen, but the results achieved for the same cost will differ when the world's best developers turn their sights from 7 year old hw to roughly contemporary hw. The first slate of software will pick at relatively low hanging fruit, but within a couple of waves of software you'll see stuff a world apart from the top studios. Every gen we've had naysayers wrt tech advancement, every gen they've been proven wrong to one degree or another.

Just as tech advancement will improve as always, next gen is NOT going to be the first gen that budgets don't rise. In fact, if you plot a graph of the last decade they may rise quite a bit.

 

[Hoo-doo]

are you starting it off very bare bones, and then patching new features into the OP over the coming months?

 

[gofreak]

This first part is wrong, many of the AAA games this generation have pushed $100million and beyond: GTA4, RDR, LA Noire, Max Payne 3, SWTOR, Modern Warfare 2, Gran turismo 5 even hit 80million.

So basically you agree with me. 2015 will be the 2nd maybe 3rd cycle of software.

Big-content, openworld games might cost in this ballpark - I'm not actually sure what the games you cite cost to make - but there were many games costing much less than this that push the envelope on visuals and rendering. The likes of naughty dog or guerilla games or santa monica...I don't think they work with budgets like that.

Early software will be a mixed bag, if only because there'll be a certain amount of cross generational stuff from some pubs... but that's always the case really. However I think there will be some standouts too in the first year, probably from first parties. Second gen software will bring another layer of wow and a higher average quality, but I'm not saying we'll have to wait until 2015 for some stand out quality. It'll just be a little harder to come by earlier on.

Just as tech advancement will improve as always, next gen is NOT going to be the first gen that budgets don't rise. In fact, if you plot a graph of the last decade they may rise quite a bit.

OK, well I'll say 'budgets may not change a lot next gen' instead of 'will not' Just going by what certain pubs - or THQ anyway - was saying. But maybe THQ isn't exactly a trendsetter at the moment... :eek

 

[AndTAR]

Quoting a post from the NSMBU OT:

Back of the Japanese box, in case anyone cared.

1-5 players
14 MB required for save data
Number of saves: 3 (shared among all users)
Supported video output: 480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p, 1080p (this isn't the resolution it runs at)
Supported controllers: Wii U gamepad, Wii Remote, Wii Remote MotionPlus
Nintendo Network: Sharing of experiences through Miiverse

Blocks be gone!

 

[z0m3le]

Big-content, openworld games might cost in this ballpark - I'm not actually sure what the games you cite cost to make - but there were many games costing much less than this that push the envelope on visuals and rendering. The likes of naughty dog or guerilla games or santa monica...I don't think they work with budgets like that.

Early software will be a mixed bag, if only because there'll be a certain amount of cross generational stuff from some pubs... but that's always the case really. However I think there will be some standouts too in the first year, probably from first parties. Second gen software will bring another layer of wow and a higher average quality, but I'm not saying we'll have to wait until 2015 for some stand out quality. It'll just be a little harder to come by earlier on.



OK, well I'll say 'budgets may not change a lot next gen' instead of 'will not' Just going by what certain pubs - or THQ anyway - was saying. But maybe THQ isn't exactly a trendsetter at the moment... :eek

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/07/02/the-rise-of-costs-the-fall-of-gaming/ good thing for us, there is already a huge list about this. Game budgets should rise for visuals to improve as we have seen, the factor 5 chart near the top of that article (I would rather call it an essay since it's super long, but packed full of sourced information) has a good indication of game budget increase and what the projected budgets should be for current gen were suppose to be around 15 million, ended up twice that, which real AAA budget games starting at 40 million and regularly raising beyond 100 million, in some instances growing to even 200 million.

My point is that obviously budgets can't rise, most developers can't afford to make a $100 million game, especially when user base is below 40 million, you won't sell to everyone who owns the console, and so hitting 5 million in a user base below 40 million is very very hard to do, in this gen with 140 million HD consoles, developers still have a hard time hitting 5 million sales except with the biggest names, and they certainly don't hit 17.5 million very easily (which would be the direct relation to a 40 million user base and reaching 5 million unit sales)

Game budgets next gen will be largely the same as this gen for most developers, big projects might regularly exceed 100 million, but this is not going to be the average, thus graphics won't increase in the same pace as they have in the past except for those few titles that will have budgets above 100 million, and real stand out graphics will require up to 200 million.

 

[gofreak]

Game budgets next gen will be largely the same as this gen for most developers, big projects might regularly exceed 100 million, but this is not going to be the average, thus graphics won't increase in the same pace as they have in the past except for those few titles that will have budgets above 100 million, and real stand out graphics will require up to 200 million.

Maybe we need to define 'stand out graphics' so we're on the same page, but I think we'll have what I would call 'stand out graphics' from certain studios at nowhere near $100-200m. $100m was not a minimum bar for that level of output this gen. The numbers you link to sample the most expensive games ever made, but there have been many other very good looking games - the best, even - not in their ranks.

 

[z0m3le]

Maybe we need to define 'stand out graphics' so we're on the same page, but I think we'll have what I would call 'stand out graphics' from certain studios at nowhere near $100-200m. $100m was not a minimum bar for that level of output this gen. The numbers you link to sample the most expensive games ever made, but there have been many other very good looking games - the best, even - not in their ranks.

Again, those games cost 40million+ to make this generation, you will see that number increase by roughly the same percentage as previous generations in order to see that same leap in fidelity, since most developers pushing 80million is quite hard to do, that seems extreme.

Still whats more worrying is the number of sales you need to have in order to recoup the costs, because in the end that is what matter, these are businesses and if you want an AAA game next gen, it's likely going to be a 60m-80m game or more, meaning you'll have to sell a minimum of 2-3m copies to recoup the cost of development, and doing that in a market that is only ~20m consoles strong is going to be hard to do... (this is first year of PS4/XB3 sales)

All I'm saying is that first gen and second gen software will not match 3rd and 4th gen, they will likely betray our expectations for next gen.

 

[Phazon]

Quoting a post from the NSMB U OT:



Blocks be gone!

Excellent news

 

[DenisQc]

Quoting a post from the NSMB U OT:



Blocks be gone!

THIS is a good news !

 

[netBuff]

Blocks be gone!

I'm sure MB stands for "Mega Blocks", Nintendo's new storage space unit.

(Hallelujah!)

 

[onilink88]

Wait what? The tablet is a gimmick now? 2004, is that you?

The tablet is most certainly a gimmick. Mind you, I'm not referring to the mutated descriptive proliferated by the ignorant "gaming masses". No objectively applicable definition of the term carries an inherently negative connotation. For the record, by most accounts (and my own), the tablet seems to be an interesting and pleasant gimmick, at the very least.

*Apologies for going off-topic. Carry on.*

 

[Donnie]

30hz, not 30fps

I'm referring specifically to framerate not the screens refresh rate, hence fps.

 

[ozfunghi]

Anyone here care to translate these supposed leaked specs from Japanese?

Found these on the Nintendo Go site... don't know if they've been covered somewhere.

 

[frankie_baby]

Anyone here care to translate these supposed leaked specs from Japanese?

Found these on the Nintendo Go site... don't know if they've been covered somewhere.

They look a bit fishy

 

[Hero of Legend]

Quoting a post from the NSMB U OT:



Blocks be gone!

Wonder if that's why NOA didn't bother with the resolutions; we know it runs at 1280x720, so the back cover info wouldn't give us the real info so it's a tad pointless?

Still, why are we getting white backs yet NOJ and NOE backs are blue?

 

[Galang]

I'm sure MB stands for "Mega Blocks", Nintendo's new storage space unit.

(Hallelujah!)

I can see this happening lol .. I wouldn't mind one bit.

 

[shark sandwich]

Anyone here care to translate these supposed leaked specs from Japanese?

Found these on the Nintendo Go site... don't know if they've been covered somewhere.

Looks like BS to me. No way the CPU is using 14nm SOI process, and I highly doubt the GPU has ~153 GB/s bandwidth.

 

[KojiKnight]

First part:

2 processors
6 cores
12 threads
Proc 1 (presumably espresso): 920mhz
Proc 2 (presumably ARM): 262mhz
64-bit architecture
Big Endian
SMP 4-way
Lvl 1 512kb
Lvl 2 2MB 12 way
Lvl 3 12MB Edram
14nm Process SOI.

(edit) some corrections to nm instead of the mistaken "mm" and "espresso" versus "expressor"

 

[frankie_baby]

First part:

2 processors
6 cores
12 threads
Proc 1 (presumably expressor): 920mhz
Proc 2 (presumably ARM): 262mhz
64-bit architecture
Big Endian
SMP 4-way
Lvl 1 512kb
Lvl 2 2MB 12 way
Lvl 3 12MB Edram
14mm Process.

Lol

 

[JordanN]

IBM confirmed the CPU is 45nm, it's fake.

 

[Mr Swine]

First part:

2 processors
6 cores
12 threads
Proc 1 (presumably expressor): 920mhz
Proc 2 (presumably ARM): 262mhz
64-bit architecture
Big Endian
SMP 4-way
Lvl 1 512kb
Lvl 2 2MB 12 way
Lvl 3 12MB Edram
14mm Process.

Lol at the 14nm process, 22 has hardly been out for a year and already at 14? Sounds so fake xD

 

[tkscz]

First part:

2 processors
6 cores
12 threads
Proc 1 (presumably expressor): 920mhz
Proc 2 (presumably ARM): 262mhz
64-bit architecture
Big Endian
SMP 4-way
Lvl 1 512kb
Lvl 2 2MB 12 way
Lvl 3 12MB Edram
14mm Process.

Lies and slander!

 

[KojiKnight]

Second part (graphics core):
Architecture: custom
500 Stream Processors
710mhz Engine clock
29~ Billion/sec texture fill rate
512MB GDDR5 video ram
1ghz memory clock
512bit memory interface
153/GB memory bandwidth
16kx16k frame buffer max size
1.4GB frame buffer memory

(Yeah this is all 100% BS fake article, but people asked for a translation so...)


(edit) The third part is just random marketting buzzwords and partnerships as far as I can tell. The last part is about the memory which is all kinds of already confirmed otherwise... but for the sake of it...

512MB Hybrid Main Memory
Block ram: 408MB total 68MB Display
64GB MLC flash memory.

 

[frankie_baby]

Second part (graphics core):
Architecture: custom
500 Stream Processors
710mhz Engine clock
29~ Billion/sec texture fill rate
512MB GDDR5 video ram
1ghz memory clock
512bit memory interface
153/GB memory bandwidth
16kx16k frame buffer max size
1.4GB frame buffer memory

(Yeah this is all 100% BS fake article, but people asked for a translation so...)


(edit) The third part is just random marketting buzzwords and partnerships as far as I can tell. The last part is about the memory which is all kinds of already confirmed otherwise... but for the sake of it...

512MB Hybrid Main Memory
Block ram: 408MB total 68MB Display
64GB MLC flash memory.

Its quite hilarious for a fake that it actually contradicts stuff that's already been made public

 

[ozfunghi]

Second part (graphics core):
Architecture: custom
500 Stream Processors
710mhz Engine clock
29~ Billion/sec texture fill rate
512MB GDDR5 video ram
1ghz memory clock
512bit memory interface
153/GB memory bandwidth
16kx16k frame buffer max size
1.4GB frame buffer memory

(Yeah this is all 100% BS fake article, but people asked for a translation so...)


(edit) The third part is just random marketting buzzwords and partnerships as far as I can tell. The last part is about the memory which is all kinds of already confirmed otherwise... but for the sake of it...

512MB Hybrid Main Memory
Block ram: 408MB total 68MB Display
64GB MLC flash memory.

710 Gflops confirmed!!!

lol

 

[Thraktor]

At last, the z/architecture based console we've all been waiting for!

Spoiler

 

[Graphics Horse]

Lol at the 14nm process, 22 has hardly been out for a year and already at 14? Sounds so fake xD

To be fair it* says millimetre not nanometre
*it being the translation, not the original.

 

[KojiKnight]

I'd have a very hard time believing either way that the espresso is running less than 1ghz even with 4 full cores that this rumor implies. This whole specs list reeks of someone who doesn't know anything about the console (getting the basics of 2GB of ram wrong that was confirmed by Iwata himself for example) just trying to make it both impressive and gimped at the same time.

(edit) Whoops, I did put 14mm by accident didn't I? Sorry, just rushed through that. Fixed now.

 

[blu]

At last, the z/architecture based console we've all been waiting for!

Spoiler

Speak for yourself. I'm waiting for the one true Z80K machine.

 

[lightchris]

Strange specs indeed, definitely not what is in Wii U.
I'm not sure though if it could have been an early plan, maybe scheduled for a 2014 release.

edit: nah, even 2014 would've been too early for 14nm. Maybe someone tried out his self-developed random CPU/GPU specs generator.

 

[netBuff]

To be fair it* says millimetre not nanometre
*it being the translation, not the original.

14 millimeter wide structures would be patently absurd (unless the Wii U has the biggest processor on earth). 14 nanometer are just extremely unrealistic at this point in time.

 

[shark sandwich]

To be fair it* says millimetre not nanometre
*it being the translation, not the original.

Ohh haha my bad. I better invest in a football stadium to house this console.

 

[AndTAR]

I'm wondering about the prospect of running a native Virtual Console (whenever it arrives) in the background - side by side with Wii U games.

I imagine the RAM requirements are minimal, as it could all be done in the Wii's memory, but perpaps it could be hindered by paused Wii U games still requiring CPU, or something like that?

 

[frankie_baby]

I'm wondering about the prospect of running a native Virtual Console (whenever it arrives) in the background - side by side with Wii U games.

I imagine the RAM requirements are minimal, as it could all be done in the Wii's memory, but perpaps it could be hindered by paused Wii U games still requiring CPU, or something like that?

Emulated games are pretty heavy on the cpu

 

[KojiKnight]

I'm wondering about the prospect of running a native Virtual Console (whenever it arrives) in the background - side by side with Wii U games.

I imagine the RAM requirements are minimal, as it could all be done in the Wii's memory, but perpaps it could be hindered by paused Wii U games still requiring CPU, or something like that?

I don't see a real reason why they couldn't on say NES/SNES games... but they aren't going to. It would be confusing and pretty needless. Not to say inconsistent since only a few different systems would be able to do that.

 

[Smurfman256]

OK, let me try this one last time and see how people react to these proposed specs:

CPU: IBM Tri-Core PowerPC "Enhanced Broadway" (2-way SMT, improved SIMD, ect)
@2.2GHz, Approx. 35-45GFLOPS
Approx TDP: 7 Watts

GPU : Custom AMD Radeon HD GPU
400 Shaders
550MHz clock speed
Approx 500GFLOPS
Approx TDP: 28 watts

RAM: 1GB GDDR5 for games (clocked at 1100MHz)
1GB DDR3 for background applications (clocked again at 1100MHz)

DSP: ARM11-based @ 225MHz

Sound reasonable? If not, add your thoughts.

 

[Apophis2036]

Is that right.?...it's not a game I own, I was just going by benchmarks I've seen, which show very little difference between 2 or 4 cores, only GPU seemed to affect the frame rate.

As for UE4, maybe it will make an appearance on the WiiU, maybe it wont, time will tell, but we know one thing for certain, it wont be able to work to it's full potential on the WiiU given the (relatively) weak CPU/GPU and low available RAM, compared to what it will be able to do on the PS4 and Xbox next and PC.

There we go, knew it wouldn't take long for the argument to turn from 'WiiU is on par with PS360' to 'WiiU won't run games as well as on PS4 / 720' lol...

Fanboys are so predictable .

 

[DonMigs85]

OK, let me try this one last time and see how people react to these proposed specs:

CPU: IBM Tri-Core PowerPC "Enhanced Broadway" (2-way SMT, improved SIMD, ect)
@2.2GHz, Approx. 35-45GFLOPS
Approx TDP: 7 Watts

GPU : Custom AMD Radeon HD GPU
400 Shaders
550MHz clock speed
Approx 500GFLOPS
Approx TDP: 28 watts

RAM: 1GB GDDR5 for games (clocked at 1100MHz)
1GB DDR3 for background applications (clocked again at 1100MHz)

DSP: ARM11-based @ 225MHz

Sound reasonable? If not, add your thoughts.

A bit conservative indeed for the CPU. I think Xenon can hit over 70GFLOPs peak?
Also the 48-shader Xenos is roughly equivalent to 240 5-dimensional shaders, so at least that's a jump for the Wii U GPU. But midrange at best by today's GPU standards.

 

[onilink88]

There we go, knew it wouldn't take long for the argument to turn from 'WiiU is on par with PS360' to 'WiiU won't run games as well as on PS4 / 720' lol...

Fanboys are so predictable .

This was uncalled for. I don't think he said anything unreasonable. Though, unless I haven't been paying proper attention, it seems the Wii U is already running UE4, is it not?

 

[Lonely1]

First part:

2 processors
6 cores
12 threads
Proc 1 (presumably espresso): 920mhz
Proc 2 (presumably ARM): 262mhz
64-bit architecture
SMP 4-way
Lvl 1 512kb
Lvl 2 2MB 12 way
Lvl 3 12MB Edram
14nm Process SOI.

(edit) some corrections to nm instead of the mistaken "mm" and "espresso" versus "expressor"

Bolded the credible parts.

 

[Smurfman256]

A bit conservative indeed for the CPU. I think Xenon can hit over 70GFLOPs peak?
Also the 48-shader Xenos is roughly equivalent to 240 5-dimensional shaders, so at least that's a jump for the Wii U GPU. But midrange at best by today's GPU standards.

Since the GameCube era, Nintendo has been rather conservative with it's numbers. Maybe we'll see some better performance with the CPU just because it's not the awful Cell PPE architecture (BTW, Xenon could achieve a theoretical peak performance of 115GFLOPS. It propbably can't reach half of that [hell, I've heard as low as 30-40GFLOPS. John Carmak has even said that the Xbox 360 is only 10X more powerful than the Wii [and Broadway has an "actual" peak rating of 2.9GFLOPS]).

 

[antonz]

OK, let me try this one last time and see how people react to these proposed specs:

CPU: IBM Tri-Core PowerPC "Enhanced Broadway" (2-way SMT, improved SIMD, ect)
@2.2GHz, Approx. 35-45GFLOPS
Approx TDP: 7 Watts

GPU : Custom AMD Radeon HD GPU
400 Shaders
550MHz clock speed
Approx 500GFLOPS
Approx TDP: 28 watts

RAM: 1GB GDDR5 for games (clocked at 1100MHz)
1GB DDR3 for background applications (clocked again at 1100MHz)

DSP: ARM11-based @ 225MHz

Sound reasonable? If not, add your thoughts.

on what's been suggested there is the Main CPU, and then a multi core ARM and the DSP.

 

[DonMigs85]

By the way, do we also know if the Wii U's 1080p upscaling is comparable to or better than the 360's?

 

[MDX]

IBM confirmed the CPU is 45nm, it's fake.

eDRAM is 14nm from what I can tell:

IBM Staying on SOI Technology for 14nm FinFETs

By David Lammers

Building on its successes with SOI technology, IBM will move to finFETs based on silicon-on-insulator wafers at the 14nm node.

Gary Patton, vice president of IBM’s Semiconductor Research & Development Center, said IBM will use SOI for all of its 14nm products, including the server processors it uses internally and the Asics it makes for itself and external customers, including SoCs made for video game vendors. Some of those chips will be made internally and others at external foundry partners, Patton said.

 

[antonz]

eDRAM is 14nm from what I can tell:

Seems possible since based on what we know Nintendo seems to be IBMs only video game vendor now

 

[MDX]

Bolded the credible parts.

Lvl 3 12MB Edram

Is pretty credible considering IBM said that the CPU would have
a lot of edram.

 

[TheProphet]

guys, the WII U is capable of hiding its true power level.

just wait for it to turn super saiyan

 

[Trevelyan9999]

eDRAM is 14nm from what I can tell:

Can someone please explain if this is a good thing or not? The eDRAM is 14nm? Is this related to the CPU in some way? Sorry for the multiple questions, I just want to be clear on what we are talking about.