Support NeoGAF

[Oblivion]

Co-Processor: Multi-core ARM processor "Starbuck*" @ 550MHz?

Huh? What is that?

 

[Vagabundo]

Huh? What is that?

Used for OS and security. As far as we can tell.

 

[Oblivion]

Used for OS and security. As far as we can tell.

That's what I thought it was. So it has no bearing on the games themselves, right?

 

[Vagabundo]

That's what I thought it was. So it has no bearing on the games themselves, right?

Well it allows for the resources that are there to be use wholly for game code. Similar for the DSP.

The 360 cpu can have 3% or more of all cores running OS code and a full hardware thread or even core running sound code. That has been pushed to the co-processors in the Wii U.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Am I completely off base in explaining to a friend that porting Durango/Orbis games to Wii U will be more like putting Half-Life 2, Far Cry, and Doom 3 on the original Xbox than porting 360/PS3 games to the Wii? It was the simplest way I could describe there being a bigger difference in hardware power than basic compatibility.

It is a bit early to say so, but I think you might be giving him somewhat false hopes. Especially if Durango and Orbis are close in specs and are not shamefully slower than low-range/mid-range PC's of the time (and that is with the whole difference in efficiency between a more abstracted Windows OS on desktop and the much more efficient Game OS and drivers you have on consoles, this difference does matter).

Wii U does not have boring or badly designed hardware... as a programmer I think I would have FUN learning its intricacies, but it is a console engineered for probably much lower overall power consumption than Durango and Orbis and it comes out about 1 year before them and for probably a lower MSRP, so it is very unlikely that the two "groups" will be that much closer in performance than Wii and Xbox 360 and PS3 were (a factor helping the Wii, in theory, was that you did aim for a much lower resolution thus helping the GPU there) to make down ports a non-issue for most games.

Also, for multiplatform titles if Durango and Orbis are both more powerful than Wii U by a considerable margin and they are more similar in HW specs and characteristics to each other than Wii U this is going to be a problem for developers. Also, I hope Nintendo moneyhats Epic and/or secures an exclusive title from them as it is generally what seems to take for UE3.x (and likely UE4) titles to get optimized for your console... see Xbox 360 and PS3 when they launched and the performance of UE3 on them before Gears of War shipped on the Xbox 360 and Unreal Tournament 4 shipped on PS3.

 

[the androgyne]

I only have Mario atm but i've noticed on the Gamepad that there's some compression that isn't on the HD/TV version. Like some fuzziness around areas that should be transparent (IIRC the initial game logo screen has this). Is there any reason for it?

I was also under the impression the output was the same as the TV one just rendered at gamepad res, but it also seems to be using different assets, for instance the bowser symbols in the mini-games where you win items, are horribly pixelated compared to the others...?

What's it doing exactly? To be honest i think the gamepad output looks like it's being rendered very low res and then upscaled with bad ratio to fit as well...

 

[Panajev2001a]

I only have Mario atm but i've noticed on the Gamepad that there's some compression that isn't on the HD/TV version. Like some fuzziness around areas that should be transparent (IIRC the initial game logo screen has this). Is there any reason for it?

I was also under the impression the output was the same as the TV one just rendered at gamepad res, but it also seems to be using different assets, for instance the bowser symbols in the mini-games where you win items, are horribly pixelated compared to the others...?

What's it doing exactly? To be honest i think the gamepad output looks like it's being rendered very low res and then upscaled with bad ratio to fit as well...

They are just image compression artifacts. They are basically unnoticeable when objects move, characters or backgrounds, but when things stay still you get to notice them. The feed is compressed before being streamed to the pad.

 

[brain_stew]

I only have Mario atm but i've noticed on the Gamepad that there's some compression that isn't on the HD/TV version. Like some fuzziness around areas that should be transparent (IIRC the initial game logo screen has this). Is there any reason for it?

I was also under the impression the output was the same as the TV one just rendered at gamepad res, but it also seems to be using different assets, for instance the bowser symbols in the mini-games where you win items, are horribly pixelated compared to the others...?

What's it doing exactly? To be honest i think the gamepad output looks like it's being rendered very low res and then upscaled with bad ratio to fit as well...

It's a compressed, down scaled mirror of the TV screen, what you are seeing is normal.

 

[Thraktor]

Ok, so is this a basic overview of the Wii U's main processors:


CPU: IBM PowerPC 750-based tri-core processor "Espresso" @ 1.24 GHz

Co-Processor: Multi-core ARM processor "Starbuck*" @ 550MHz?

GPU: AMD Radeon HD based on R700 series "Latte/GPU7" @ 550 MHz

DSP: Currently Unknown @ 120/200 MHz


I don't think we have any new information on the ARM processor or the DSP yet.

The only info we have for the co-processor is this:

we're calling the WiiU security processor the Starbuck (vs. Starlet on Wii). And it seems to be about equally vulnerable, too.

He doesn't say anything about single/multi-core or about the DSP. Might tweet him a question about them, actually.

 

[Fourth Storm]

The only info we have for the co-processor is this:



He doesn't say anything about single/multi-core or about the DSP. Might tweet him a question about them, actually.

Yeah, I've been thinking a Cortex-A5, but I wonder if Nintendo surprises again with a pair of low clocked ARM11s ala 3DS for binary compatibility w/ Starlet.

 

[lwilliams3]

The only info we have for the co-processor is this:



He doesn't say anything about single/multi-core or about the DSP. Might tweet him a question about them, actually.

Ok, thanks Thraktor.

Yeah, I've been thinking a Cortex-A5, but I wonder if Nintendo surprises again with a pair of low clocked ARM11s ala 3DS for binary compatibility w/ Starlet.

Possible, though Scarlet was the same clockspeed as Hollywood (243MHz) which was a lot higher than the 66MHz ARM9 in the original DS.

 

[Thraktor]

Yeah, I've been thinking a Cortex-A5, but I wonder if Nintendo surprises again with a pair of low clocked ARM11s ala 3DS for binary compatibility w/ Starlet.

I've been thinking about it, and I don't think Starbuck actually needs to be binary compatible with Starlet. Games don't actually run code directly on Starlet, so as long as Starbuck interacts with game code exactly the same was Starlet did, BC should be fine. It could be as simple as just recompiling all the code for the new ARM chip.

On the other hand, if it's "equally vulnerable", then perhaps that indicates a dual-core variant of Starlet's ARM926 architecture.

Edit: Although the ARM9 IP doesn't feature support for SMP, so it'd require a bit of work on Renesas's part to do so.

 

[Rocky_Balboa]

All this tech talk and arguing reminds me of "The GameMaster" on Team Xbox forums. Is anyone else remembering him? Guy was crazy.

Here is a post from '05
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=366924

 

[aegies]

E3 2013 will reveal a lot and disappoint a great many people on this forum.

Your going to see for the first time, exclusive U games, with a decent budget, that were built using the final devkits, im predicting right now that the likes of Zelda / 3D Mario / Metroid U will look just as good, if not better than PS4 / 720 exclusive launch games.

The big Nintendo exclusives built from the ground up on final devkits will make NSMB U, Nintendo Land, Pikmin 3, ZombiU, W-101 and the Zelda HD tech demo look like 'last gen' games imo.

Of course at E3 2014 we will start to see PS4 / 720 flex their graphical muscles after developers have had enough time with final dev kits and not been rushed for launch / Xmas.

Nope. You might like the style of the Wii U games Nintendo shows next year, which is totally fine, because plenty of people preferred, say, Mario Galaxy, or even Twilight Princess to what was happening in games like Gears or Halo or Uncharted. But the 360/PS3 titles were clearly technically superior by a very wide margin. This will be repeated with the next Xbox and PS4.

I've spent the last year talking to publishers and developers off the record. They've been waiting for Durango in particular. There are things they want to do that they haven't been able to pull off, and many feel that the shrinkage in the market is due to hardware stagnation. The big guys and popular developers that haven't already gone iOS are hitching their wagons to Durango in a big, big way. Which terrifies them, by the way. They are not in any way sure that it's going to turn things around, business wise.

I'm not saying the next Playstation isn't part of the equation, but they've seemed much less clear as to what it will even be. Granted, I haven't talked to everyone, obviously.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I've spent the last year talking to publishers and developers off the record. They've been waiting for Durango in particular. There are things they want to do that they haven't been able to pull off, and many feel that the shrinkage in the market is due to hardware stagnation. The big guys and popular developers that haven't already gone iOS are hitching their wagons to Durango in a big, big way. Which terrifies them, by the way. They are not in any way sure that it's going to turn things around, business wise.

I'm not saying the next Playstation isn't part of the equation, but they've seemed much less clear as to what it will even be. Granted, I haven't talked to everyone, obviously.

hhhmmm that is interesting that some publishers and developers don't know what the next PS going to be about .
Are you talking about specs or how the wanted to market the next PS eg like move , eye toy etc etc
If it is launching next year that makes even more weird , wonder if Sony aiming for 2014 instead .

 

[Father_Brain]

I've spent the last year talking to publishers and developers off the record. They've been waiting for Durango in particular. There are things they want to do that they haven't been able to pull off, and many feel that the shrinkage in the market is due to hardware stagnation. The big guys and popular developers that haven't already gone iOS are hitching their wagons to Durango in a big, big way. Which terrifies them, by the way. They are not in any way sure that it's going to turn things around, business wise.

I'm not saying the next Playstation isn't part of the equation, but they've seemed much less clear as to what it will even be. Granted, I haven't talked to everyone, obviously.

Would that mean that you expect to see a number of third-party Durango/PC titles, with no current-gen versions and possibly not even a PS4 version, as early as the Durango launch window next year? That sounds pretty insane on multiple levels, but I don't work for any of the publishers in question, so...

 

[AzaK]

Nope. You might like the style of the Wii U games Nintendo shows next year, which is totally fine, because plenty of people preferred, say, Mario Galaxy, or even Twilight Princess to what was happening in games like Gears or Halo or Uncharted. But the 360/PS3 titles were clearly technically superior by a very wide margin. This will be repeated with the next Xbox and PS4.

I've spent the last year talking to publishers and developers off the record. They've been waiting for Durango in particular. There are things they want to do that they haven't been able to pull off, and many feel that the shrinkage in the market is due to hardware stagnation. The big guys and popular developers that haven't already gone iOS are hitching their wagons to Durango in a big, big way. Which terrifies them, by the way. They are not in any way sure that it's going to turn things around, business wise.

I'm not saying the next Playstation isn't part of the equation, but they've seemed much less clear as to what it will even be. Granted, I haven't talked to everyone, obviously.

I'm not surprised they are waiting for Durango (and Orbis) given they have painted themselves into a corner regarding their budgets and productions over this last generation. I can't see any of the big guys going "Hey, Wii U level will be fine"; and it's understandable. There's 70 million 360's out there and I would bet a majority of those are owned by the gamer who like those cinematic experiences and always bigger, better, faster.

How this affects Wii U in the end I really don't know. I just hope that those publishers see value (i.e. profit) in it and it gets the downports.

 

[frankie_baby]

Just wondering have we had any confirmation of the gamepad camera resolution yet?

 

[XtremeXpider]

Nope. You might like the style of the Wii U games Nintendo shows next year, which is totally fine, because plenty of people preferred, say, Mario Galaxy, or even Twilight Princess to what was happening in games like Gears or Halo or Uncharted. But the 360/PS3 titles were clearly technically superior by a very wide margin. This will be repeated with the next Xbox and PS4.

I've spent the last year talking to publishers and developers off the record. They've been waiting for Durango in particular. There are things they want to do that they haven't been able to pull off, and many feel that the shrinkage in the market is due to hardware stagnation. The big guys and popular developers that haven't already gone iOS are hitching their wagons to Durango in a big, big way. Which terrifies them, by the way. They are not in any way sure that it's going to turn things around, business wise.

I'm not saying the next Playstation isn't part of the equation, but they've seemed much less clear as to what it will even be. Granted, I haven't talked to everyone, obviously.

An article from IGN (around this year E3) agree, they said that devs likes a lot more Durango than Wii U.

 

[Father_Brain]

An article from IGN (around this year E3) agree, they said that devs likes a lot more Durango than Wii U.

Preferring Durango as a platform is one thing. Putting all or most of their eggs in that basket in the seeming hope of recreating a PS2-esque single-platform ecosystem for core gaming is quite another.

 

[H_Prestige]

Preferring Durango as a platform is one thing. Putting all or most of their eggs in that basket in the seeming hope of recreating a PS2-esque single-platform ecosystem for core gaming is quite another.

Except it wouldn't be just one system. It would be ps4/720/pc all acting as one platform. Putting your eggs in that basket seems a lot safer than putting them in the wii u basket.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Preferring Durango as a platform is one thing. Putting all or most of their eggs in that basket in the seeming hope of recreating a PS2-esque single-platform ecosystem for core gaming is quite another.

I'm not saying that, just that IGN article agree with aegies said:

From a hardware perspective, nearly 80% of respondents said Microsoft’s next console is the easiest to work with, and the overwhelming majority suspect it will be the sales leader over the next five years.

By comparison, 63% of developers who spoke to IGN said the Wii U would be the most challenging platform to develop for. One creator went as far as saying, “we won’t be working on Wii U due to these complexities,” while another lamented the difficulty of moving innovative games unique to Wii U to other platforms

 

[Diablos54]

Except it wouldn't be just one system. It would be ps4/720/pc all acting as one platform. Putting your eggs in that basket seems a lot safer than putting them in the wii u basket.

I dunno, the Wii U has the PS3/360 basket still due to how close they are tech wise, plus the PC. No way it's going to be safer putting things in the PS4/720/PC basket when they release than the Wii U/PS3/360/PC basket. Of course things will change once the PS4/720 gain market traction, but how long is that going to take?

 

[XtremeXpider]

I dunno, the Wii U has the PS3/360 basket still due to how close they are tech wise, plus the PC. No way it's going to be safer putting things in the PS4/720/PC basket when they release than the Wii U/PS3/360/PC basket. Of course things will change once the PS4/720 gain market traction, but how long is that going to take?

From the same IGN article:

approximately 60% of respondents have no plans to release games for the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, or Nintendo Wii after 2013.

 

[Diablos54]

So they say, but I bet they will, either down-ports from the next gen systems at the beginning, or up ports. They'd be crazy to just abandon the huge audience. We'll still be seeing PS3/360 Fifa in 2014, that's for sure. There's a PS2 Fifa 13, for example.

Plus I remember that IGN article, not exactly a comprehensive look IIRC.

 

[frankie_baby]

So they say, but I bet they will, either down-ports from the next gen systems at the beginning, or up ports. They'd be crazy to just abandon the huge audience. We'll still be seeing PS3/360 Fifa in 2019, that's for sure.

Fixed

 

[Father_Brain]

Except it wouldn't be just one system. It would be ps4/720/pc all acting as one platform. Putting your eggs in that basket seems a lot safer than putting them in the wii u basket.

That's what I figured would be the case, but Gies seems to be saying that third-party investment is heavily lopsided towards the latter two of those three platforms.

And the fundamental (potential) problem with this isn't Wii U being neglected; it's third parties staking their futures on an expensive new platform with even higher development costs and uncertain adoption rates.

 

[H_Prestige]

That's what I figured would be the case, but Gies seems to be saying that third-party investment is heavily lopsided towards the latter two of those three platforms.

It could just be that 720 will be the lead platform for most games, like the 360 this gen. PS4 looks like it will share the same exact core so there should be no reason for it not to be in the picture.

And the fundamental (potential) problem with this isn't Wii U being neglected; it's third parties staking their futures on an expensive new platform with even higher development costs and uncertain adoption rates.

Isn't this the case with any console gen transition? Even if they all decided to bet on Wii U exclusively, they would be facing higher costs and uncertain adoption rates.

 

[Jeffa]

This is a WiiU technical discussion. Could we stick to talking about WiiU specs please?

 

[Apophis2036]

Nope. You might like the style of the Wii U games Nintendo shows next year, which is totally fine, because plenty of people preferred, say, Mario Galaxy, or even Twilight Princess to what was happening in games like Gears or Halo or Uncharted. But the 360/PS3 titles were clearly technically superior by a very wide margin. This will be repeated with the next Xbox and PS4.

I've spent the last year talking to publishers and developers off the record. They've been waiting for Durango in particular. There are things they want to do that they haven't been able to pull off, and many feel that the shrinkage in the market is due to hardware stagnation. The big guys and popular developers that haven't already gone iOS are hitching their wagons to Durango in a big, big way. Which terrifies them, by the way. They are not in any way sure that it's going to turn things around, business wise.

I'm not saying the next Playstation isn't part of the equation, but they've seemed much less clear as to what it will even be. Granted, I haven't talked to everyone, obviously.

Read my post again, i said the second wave of Nintendo exclusive U games would look just as good if not better than PS4 / 720 launch games. I appreciate both realistic and cartoony artstyles, Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword were just as impressive to me as Gears and Uncharted esp considering the puny hardware they were running on.

PS4 / 720 are obviously around 3 or 4 times as powerful as WiiU.

Strange about developers being more eager for 'Durango' to try out their new ideas since PS4's GPU is rumoured to be around 25% more powerful, Kinect-a-thon inc ?.

Only the top 4 or 5 Publishers will be able to fund AAA / AAAA multi platform games that push PS4 / 720 hardware to their limit and unless those consoles do 'unreal, unlike anything we have ever seen at launch numbers' then the install base is really going to limit any sort of profit those companies can make. They will struggle to break even with an install base of only a few million.

It's going to be very hard to convince the average gamer to drop $450 - $500 on a new PS / Xbox that does not have the visual leap of 2D > 3D or SD > HD or the 10x PS2 > PS3 graphical leap when they are quite happy with their free Blu Ray players, free online and PS Move on PS3 and Kinect, CoD MP and XBL on the 360 or shock horror their new WiiU.

By the sounds of it most of the larger selling yearly IP's (AC / CoD / WWE / UFC / FIFA / Madden / Dance Central ect) will be released across PS3 / 360 / WiiU / PS4 / 720 into Winter 2014 aswell.

The biggest factor of all when considering the launch of new, cutting edge, expensive consoles is imo - the global economy, this isn't 2005 / 2006.

If Nintendo can announce a few massive first party games and a few big third party ports no one expected them to get at E3 2013 and get 10 - 15 million consoles sold then they will have a massive advantage next gen before the others even launch because of their install base.

 

[Erethian]

This is a WiiU technical discussion. Could we stick to talking about WiiU specs please?

Yeah.

I don't have any contribution to make to the technical discussion, but I've been enjoying reading all the detailed analysis of technical specifications without the usual system wars/third-party support speculation tedium.

 

[Apophis2036]

Yeah.

I don't have any contribution to make to the technical discussion, but I've been enjoying reading all the detailed analysis of technical specifications without the usual system wars/third-party support speculation tedium.

Sorry was just answering a post, will keep it WiiU only from now on.

Will we ever realistically get a GPU FLOP count or will we be forever left guessing ? .

eDRAM speed would also be nice to get before Xmas.

 

[frankie_baby]

Sorry was just answering a post, will keep it WiiU only from now on.

Will we ever realistically get a GPU FLOP count or will we be forever left guessing ? .

eDRAM speed would also be nice to get before Xmas.

well when (if) someone xrays the chips we may have a better idea whats in them and possiblyuse that with the clockspeed to work of flops, maybe?

 

[bobeth]

PS4 / 720 are obviously around 3 or 4 times as powerful as WiiU.

This is pure gold!

 

[freddy]

Damn, what happened to this thread?

 

[Apophis2036]

This is pure gold!

How so ? -

WiiU -

Tri Core IBM OoOE CPU clocked at 1.2 GHz.
2GB's of Ram.
32MB's of eDRAM.
400 - 500 GFLOP GPU.
Separate DSP Chip for Audio.
Separate ARM Chip for the OS.

720 -

Quad Core AMD CPU (rumoured to be clocked at 1.6 GHz).
6 GB's of Ram.
1.5 TFLOP GPU.

PS4 -

Quad Core AMD CPU.
4 GB's of Ram.
1.8 TFLOP GPU.

 

[bobeth]

How so ? -

WiiU -

Tri Core IBM OoOE CPU clocked at 1.2 GHz.
2GB's of Ram.
32MB's of eDRAM.
400 - 500 GFLOP GPU.
Separate DSP Chip for Audio.
Separate ARM Chip for the OS.

720 -

Quad Core AMD CPU (rumoured to be clocked at 1.6 GHz).
6 GB's of Ram.
1.5 TFLOP GPU.

PS4 -

Quad Core AMD CPU.
4 GB's of Ram.
1.8 TFLOP GPU.

I don't know, maybe because two of the machines you describe don't exist yet?

 

[frankie_baby]

How so ? -

WiiU -

Tri Core IBM OoOE CPU clocked at 1.2 GHz.
2GB's of Ram.
32MB's of eDRAM.
400 - 500 GFLOP GPU.
Separate DSP Chip for Audio.
Separate ARM Chip for the OS.

720 -

Quad Core AMD CPU (rumoured to be clocked at 1.6 GHz).
6 GB's of Ram.
1.5 TFLOP GPU.

PS4 -

Quad Core AMD CPU.
4 GB's of Ram.
1.8 TFLOP GPU.

If we go with the most optimistic of Wii u speculated specs then compare to the more pessimistic end of ms/Sony rumours we could be looking at as little as a 2x increase in performance, do I believe that is the case no not really but don't say things are obviously when talking about stuff that doesn't exist

 

[Apophis2036]

I don't know, maybe because two of the machines you describe don't exist yet?

PS4 / 720 specs have been floating around for the past 3 months, they are obviously not final but unless they take a 200 or 300% bump in specs (very unlikely as developers have had kits for months) there will be no repeat of the Wii - PS360 powergap.

That was the point i was trying to make before your ill informed 'pure gold' statement .

 

[aegies]

Read my post again, i said the second wave of Nintendo exclusive U games would look just as good if not better than PS4 / 720 launch games. I appreciate both realistic and cartoony artstyles, Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword were just as impressive to me as Gears and Uncharted esp considering the puny hardware they were running on.

PS4 / 720 are obviously around 3 or 4 times as powerful as WiiU.

Strange about developers being more eager for 'Durango' to try out their new ideas since PS4's GPU is rumoured to be around 25% more powerful, Kinect-a-thon inc ?.

Only the top 4 or 5 Publishers will be able to fund AAA / AAAA multi platform games that push PS4 / 720 hardware to their limit and unless those consoles do 'unreal, unlike anything we have ever seen at launch numbers' then the install base is really going to limit any sort of profit those companies can make. They will struggle to break even with an install base of only a few million.

It's going to be very hard to convince the average gamer to drop $450 - $500 on a new PS / Xbox that does not have the visual leap of 2D > 3D or SD > HD or the 10x PS2 > PS3 graphical leap when they are quite happy with their free Blu Ray players, free online and PS Move on PS3 and Kinect, CoD MP and XBL on the 360 or shock horror their new WiiU.

By the sounds of it most of the larger selling yearly IP's (AC / CoD / WWE / UFC / FIFA / Madden / Dance Central ect) will be released across PS3 / 360 / WiiU / PS4 / 720 into Winter 2014 aswell.

The biggest factor of all when considering the launch of new, cutting edge, expensive consoles is imo - the global economy, this isn't 2005 / 2006.

If Nintendo can announce a few massive first party games and a few big third party ports no one expected them to get at E3 2013 and get 10 - 15 million consoles sold then they will have a massive advantage next gen before the others even launch because of their install base.

And I'm telling you that i'm of the opinion that Durango launch games will look better than just about anything that ever comes out for the Wii U from a technical perspective (I can't account for differences in taste). And your estimation of the power difference between the next Xbox and the Wii U is considerably lower than the estimates of the tech inside of Microsoft's next console that I've heard. It's not going to be a quad-core system, and the GPU will in all likelihood run circles around the GPU in the Wii U.

I know that if Durango is under-powered this will look stupid in a year, but I wouldn't be posting about it unless I was very, very sure.

 

[Ashes]

And I'm telling you that i'm of the opinion that Durango launch games will look better than just about anything that ever comes out for the Wii U from a technical perspective (I can't account for differences in taste). And your estimation of the power difference between the next Xbox and the Wii U is considerably lower than the estimates of the tech inside of Microsoft's next console that I've heard. It's not going to be a quad-core system, and the GPU will in all likelihood run circles around the GPU in the Wii U.

I know that if Durango is under-powered this will look stupid in a year, but I wouldn't be posting about it unless I was very, very sure.

A launch durango game is going to look better than anything capable on the wii u?
I don't know man. There are some beautiful wii games when up rezed to 1080p

 

[Grampa Simpson]

How so ? -

WiiU -

Tri Core IBM OoOE CPU clocked at 1.2 GHz.
2GB's of Ram.
32MB's of eDRAM.
400 - 500 GFLOP GPU.
Separate DSP Chip for Audio.
Separate ARM Chip for the OS.

720 -

Quad Core AMD CPU (rumoured to be clocked at 1.6 GHz).
6 GB's of Ram.
1.5 TFLOP GPU.

PS4 -

Quad Core AMD CPU.
4 GB's of Ram.
1.8 TFLOP GPU.

A launch durango game is going to look better than anything capable on the wii u?
I don't know man. There are some beautiful wii games when up rezed to 1080p

And I'm telling you that i'm of the opinion that Durango launch games will look better than just about anything that ever comes out for the Wii U from a technical perspective (I can't account for differences in taste). And your estimation of the power difference between the next Xbox and the Wii U is considerably lower than the estimates of the tech inside of Microsoft's next console that I've heard. It's not going to be a quad-core system, and the GPU will in all likelihood run circles around the GPU in the Wii U.

I know that if Durango is under-powered this will look stupid in a year, but I wouldn't be posting about it unless I was very, very sure.

PS4 / 720 specs have been floating around for the past 3 months, they are obviously not final but unless they take a 200 or 300% bump in specs (very unlikely as developers have had kits for months) there will be no repeat of the Wii - PS360 powergap.

That was the point i was trying to make before your ill informed 'pure gold' statement .

Read my post again, i said the second wave of Nintendo exclusive U games would look just as good if not better than PS4 / 720 launch games. I appreciate both realistic and cartoony artstyles, Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword were just as impressive to me as Gears and Uncharted esp considering the puny hardware they were running on.

PS4 / 720 are obviously around 3 or 4 times as powerful as WiiU.

Strange about developers being more eager for 'Durango' to try out their new ideas since PS4's GPU is rumoured to be around 25% more powerful, Kinect-a-thon inc ?.

Only the top 4 or 5 Publishers will be able to fund AAA / AAAA multi platform games that push PS4 / 720 hardware to their limit and unless those consoles do 'unreal, unlike anything we have ever seen at launch numbers' then the install base is really going to limit any sort of profit those companies can make. They will struggle to break even with an install base of only a few million.

It's going to be very hard to convince the average gamer to drop $450 - $500 on a new PS / Xbox that does not have the visual leap of 2D > 3D or SD > HD or the 10x PS2 > PS3 graphical leap when they are quite happy with their free Blu Ray players, free online and PS Move on PS3 and Kinect, CoD MP and XBL on the 360 or shock horror their new WiiU.

By the sounds of it most of the larger selling yearly IP's (AC / CoD / WWE / UFC / FIFA / Madden / Dance Central ect) will be released across PS3 / 360 / WiiU / PS4 / 720 into Winter 2014 aswell.

The biggest factor of all when considering the launch of new, cutting edge, expensive consoles is imo - the global economy, this isn't 2005 / 2006.

If Nintendo can announce a few massive first party games and a few big third party ports no one expected them to get at E3 2013 and get 10 - 15 million consoles sold then they will have a massive advantage next gen before the others even launch because of their install base.

Please don't do this to this thread.

 

[aegies]

Please don't do this to this thread.

Apologies. I'll back out now.

 

[Ashes]

PS4 / 720 specs have been floating around for the past 3 months, they are obviously not final but unless they take a 200 or 300% bump in specs (very unlikely as developers have had kits for months) there will be no repeat of the Wii - PS360 powergap.

That was the point i was trying to make before your ill informed 'pure gold' statement .

The difference between the wii and ps3/360 was sd>HD
Now it will be in the same ball park yes. With the stats you posted though, it looks like there will be 300% increase in gigaflops between wiiu and ps4!

edit: Just to be clear, if you thought that your data supported you, er, I'm inclined to disagree. You We should probably let the thread resume normal discourse now.

 

[lwilliams3]

This discussion is about the Wii U's tech. Please have this argument about the Durango/PS4 in another thread.

 

[Diffense]

I think a certain amount of comparison with Wii U's upcoming competitors is germane. It helps to put things in context.

 

[Ashes]

I think a certain amount of comparison with Wii U's upcoming competitors is germane. It helps to put things in context.

Wii u + 10(PS3+360) = Ps4



No, I'm kidding... This is theoretical nonsense...

 

[Apophis2036]

And I'm telling you that i'm of the opinion that Durango launch games will look better than just about anything that ever comes out for the Wii U from a technical perspective (I can't account for differences in taste). And your estimation of the power difference between the next Xbox and the Wii U is considerably lower than the estimates of the tech inside of Microsoft's next console that I've heard. It's not going to be a quad-core system, and the GPU will in all likelihood run circles around the GPU in the Wii U.

I know that if Durango is under-powered this will look stupid in a year, but I wouldn't be posting about it unless I was very, very sure.

Cool .

 

[Apophis2036]

The difference between the wii and ps3/360 was sd>HD
Now it will be in the same ball park yes. With the stats you posted though, it looks like there will be 300% increase in gigaflops between wiiu and ps4!

edit: Just to be clear, if you thought that your data supported you, er, I'm inclined to disagree. You We should probably let the thread resume normal discourse now.

Just over 4x at most for the GPU and 2x the Ram, no one knows what speed the PS4's CPU will be clocked at, if it's anything like the 720 it will be far lower than the 3.2 Ghz CPU's found in PS360 though.

 

[Apophis2036]

This discussion is about the Wii U's tech. Please have this argument about the Durango/PS4 in another thread.

Were talking about WiiU's tech in relation to where it will stand when the other next gen consoles arrive.

Im out of all the WiiU tech threads anyway until someone has evidence of how powerful the GPU is and how fast the eDRAM is clocked at, without that info these threads are circle arguments.