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WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis

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T

TheGreyHulk

Member
sleeping_dragon said:
So is this GPU more powerful than Orbits or Durango?
Click to expand...

The Orbis absolutely murders it. Durango kicks it's ass too.
TFlop # isn't everything. There's more architectural advances that give it a lot more modern capabilities. The Wii U is based on mid-2008 tech going up against 2012 tech. It just can't compete graphically.
 
A

Apophis2036

Banned
StreetsAhead said:
Well, that's even more holy crap.

(I don't think I've said it yet, but thank you to Chipworks and all the GAF members who've brought this together, it's a fantastic job).
Click to expand...

Yeah when you compare WiiU to Wii it looks much better than if you compare it to PS360 or PS420 ;).

I have only ever compared the console to the original Wii because the main reason i bought the console was for exclusive games, Nintendo games will look jaw dropping if you love the franchises and don't care what's available on other systems, of that there is no doubt in my mind.
 
F

Fourth Storm

Member
USC-fan said:
Wow that guy is going off on twitter. Also I see a lot of talk about the 320 is wrong and is lower. Hmmmm
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing that talk, just out of curiosity? Marcan seems to believe it lies in between current gen HD twins and their imminent successors (of course, much closer to the former).

OG_Original Gamer said:
In reference to what, if I may ask.
Click to expand...

Not sure I understand the question. But I've been looking at both sides of the motherboard provided by ifixit and which areas the traces seem to correlate to on the GPU photo in OP.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Wii+U+Teardown/11796/2
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
Fourth Storm said:
Where are you seeing that talk, just out of curiosity? Marcan seems to believe it lies in between current gen HD twins and their imminent successors (of course, much closer to the former).
Click to expand...

B3d...

From twitter" well, it's going to get raped by Durango and PS4, but did anyone seriously expect that not to happen?"

"they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again."

Sounds like he is saying ps2-ps3 /xbox-xbox 360 based on his wording. I saw he was checking and found the r600. What got him saying all this?
 
A

Apophis2036

Banned
USC-fan said:
B3d...

From twitter" well, it's going to get raped by Durango and PS4, but did anyone seriously expect that not to happen?"

"they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again."

Sounds like he is saying ps2-ps3 /xbox-xbox 360 based on his wording. I saw he was checking and found the r600. What got him saying all this?
Click to expand...

And where is the "Also I see a lot of talk about the 320 is wrong and is lower. Hmmmm" talk, Hmmmm ?...
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Héctor Martín (@marcan42) tweeted at 1:18 AM on Wed, Feb 06, 2013:
@NintenGOD773 they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again.
(https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/298948705011240961)

He is making comparison with Wii. Wii was between prior and current gen. Wii U will be between prior and current gen. But the "prior" and "current" gen of Wii U.

B3d, except or Shinobi begging for more bad news on practically every new "discovery", the guys seem to enjoy playing with the die, same as here, no further doom yet.
 
D

DragonSworne

Banned
USC-fan said:
B3d...

From twitter" well, it's going to get raped by Durango and PS4, but did anyone seriously expect that not to happen?"

"they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again."

Sounds like he is saying ps2-ps3 /xbox-xbox 360 based on his wording. I saw he was checking and found the r600. What got him saying all this?
Click to expand...


He says current gen because Wii U is already out, meaning Wii U is next gen by your definition, and more powerful than 360 and PS3
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Back off of my Abominable Snowman Nintendo-GAF.

I have nunchuks.

edit: And what I mean by that violent emotional response is that sentence can be interpreted in other ways. I'm pretty sure he was meaning between this gen and "next" but who knows? Empirically we can just look at the software released and tell the system can't be in effect "weaker" otherwise how would a chunk of them perform better than the PS3 verisons?
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
KingSnake said:
Héctor Martín (@marcan42) tweeted at 1:18 AM on Wed, Feb 06, 2013:
@NintenGOD773 they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again.
(https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/298948705011240961)

He is making comparison with Wii. Wii was between prior and current gen. Wii U will be between prior and current gen. But the "prior" and "current" gen of Wii U.

B3d, except or Shinobi begging for more bad news on practically every new "discovery", the guys seem to enjoy playing with the die, same as here, no further doom yet.
Click to expand...

competition's prior and current gen wouldnt that be ps2-ps3?

Oh i see another post now. "You realize that you sound like a total moron when you don't stop, read, and realize that I meant the PS3 and the PS4, right?"

Wierd wording...

Apophis2036 said:
And where is the "Also I see a lot of talk about the 320 is wrong and is lower. Hmmmm" talk, Hmmmm ?...
Click to expand...

b3d... like i already said. Seem really nothing new been found out today. Guess that guy was going off about nothing...
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
hector martin said:
they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again.
Click to expand...

My interpretation:

They [Nintendo] seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's [Microsoft and Sony] prior [PS2/Xbox] and current [PS3/Xbox360]gen. Kind of like the wii all over again.

It doesn't make sense though, because I thought the wii was more powerful than the PS2 and xbox. could be wrong tho.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
KingSnake said:
Final quote from Marcan tonight from my side:



Just to clarify that he is not making any valuable statement regarding the power of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Geez, who died and made Marcan king? Hell of a superiority complex that guy has going on. He came off as a huge douche after his first reveals, and continues to do so now. Imagine if the dudes at chipworks had anything remotely close to his attitude.. None of this would be happening right now, and GAF would be out $200 for the wrong picture. xD
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
USC-fan said:
competition's prior and current gen wouldnt that be ps2-ps3?
Click to expand...

It would be, if you don't follow the logic of the phrase until the end.

But I don't want to get into semantics, as this would derail the thread again. You may think that the Wii U is between xbox and 360, if that suits you.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
prag16 said:
You seem to have a LOT invested in your hopes that that the Wii U is weak (even as you appear to occupy the lower tier of tech savvyness here). Maybe even more than kbsmoker. Why is that? Did Iwata show up at your house the kick your dog?
Click to expand...

I never noticed you before, probably because you haven't made one helpful contribution to any thread, but you seem EXTREMELY on the offense against everyone who might say anything even slightly negative. I saw at least 6 insults on the first page of results, all geared against opinions not of your biased own. So chill out and enjoy the ignore.

Untalkative_Bunny said:
My interpretation:

They [Nintendo] seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's [Microsoft and Sony] prior [PS2/Xbox] and current [PS3/Xbox360]gen. Kind of like the wii all over again.

It doesn't make sense though, because I thought the wii was more powerful than the PS2 and xbox. could be wrong tho.
Click to expand...

Héctor Martín ‏@marcan42
@Featherol You realize that you sound like a total moron when you don't stop, read, and realize that I meant the PS3 and the PS4, right?
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
KingSnake said:
It would be, if you don't follow the logic of the phrase until the end.

But I don't want to get into semantics, as this would derail the thread again. You may think that the Wii U is between xbox and 360, if that suits you.
Click to expand...

At this point i have no idea what in the world you are going on about. I never said anything like that, i just got off work and saw all this stuff on twitter. I see "Marcan's info into account, I believe there is some erroneous info in the OP." Then check his twitter and he was just going off on the wiiu.

It worded badly but i even say he talking about the ps3-ps4 in my last post but you go off saying I'm something.... SMH... You guys need to get out of attack mode.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
The Abominable Snowman said:
I never noticed you before, probably because you haven't made one helpful contribution to any thread, but you seem EXTREMELY on the offense against everyone who might say anything even slightly negative. I saw at least 6 insults on the first page of results, all geared against opinions not of your biased own. So chill out and enjoy the ignore.
Click to expand...

Nice ad hominem to avoid the question.

I have a programming background but that is some years in the past, and my hardware/architecture knowledge is a bit out of date and not great to begin with. But it's enough that following along here is fun. I haven't expressed any strong opinions on the Wii U's strength because I am not an expert and prefer not to jump to conclusions. That's what's nice about not coming in here with an agenda. Take note. (You won't.)
 
Z

Zoramon089

Banned
I do wonder if that Marcan guy is just trying to stir up people. Knowing what he does about the hardware, comparing it to the Wii situation sounds incredibly ignorant and just generally dumb. The Wii was ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE weaker than the 360/PS3. We're talking numbers around 20x weaker while the Wii U seems to only be in the single digits. Anywhere from 3x-5x weaker, not to mention it actually has modern hardware. I just don't understand how anyone can compare the situations, assuming they know anything about the hardware of all the consoles
 
S

SmokeMaxX

Member
It's comparable in a sense. I'm a huge WiiU fanboy, but let's be real. It IS weaker than PS4/720. That's just a fact. It'll likely be in a similar situation as the Wii was, in many ways. The big difference is that the WiiU will be far more impressive comparatively speaking than the Wii was. However, when you have other systems blowing it out of the water, I don't think we should put that much emphasis on specs. The WiiU is technically weaker than the other systems, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have strengths that the other systems can't match. I love my WiiU. Nothing the other systems put out will be able to take away from my ability to play games on my terms. I can play games at the table, in the living room, in the bedroom, with the TV off, with the TV on another channel, while I'm in the restroom, etc. That is a feature that the other two systems don't have and will always give the WiiU an advantage.
 
S

Shokio

Neo Member
Everyone is stuck on this 352 figure, completely forgetting the already-stated fact that much of the chip remains unknown, and full of fixed-functions.

Now how much FLOPS performance the other 30% of the chip contains is not certain, but this DOES mean that the total performance is more than just 352, obviously.
 
Meesh

Meesh

Member
Apophis2036 said:
The Wii GPU was 12 Gflops, WiiU GPU is apparently 352 so it's a 29x power leap, when you factor in the updated architecture and the fixed function stuff it will prob end up around a 40x power leap, that is an unreal leap (the highest ever leap in a single generation ?), i imagine the first party developers are in heaven.

Wii had 88MB's of Ram and WiiU has 1GB for games so an 11x leap there, not sure about the CPU.

Overall if you are comparing WiiU to Wii it's an incredible power leap.
Click to expand...
Totally just blew my mind there...puts a lot into perspective. I have a feeling we'll all be saying "wow" come E3, or better yet, next ND??
 
P

pestul

Member
Meelow said:
It's the weakest out of the 3 yes, but the difference of Wii U and PS4/720 is not as big as the Wii vs PS3/360, they seem much closer to each other.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's like 3-5x weaker probably... whereas Wii might have been ~20x weaker and feature-set neutered in comparison.
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
Shokio said:
Everyone is stuck on this 352 figure, completely forgetting the already-stated fact that much of the chip remains unknown, and full of fixed-functions.

Now how much FLOPS performance the other 30% of the chip contains is not certain, but this DOES mean that the total performance is more than just 352, obviously.
Click to expand...

We have no proof there is any FF on this chip at this point. People assume incorrectly that everything on this chip is for gpu. This is a soc wihtout the cpu.

I would be surprise if there was any FF that wasnt tied directly to BC. There just isnt enough power left to really do anything with.
 
M

Meelow

Banned
pestul said:
Yeah, it's like 3-5x weaker probably... whereas Wii might have been ~20x weaker and feature-set neutered in comparison.
Click to expand...

From what it seems like and the previous posts comparing the Wii U and PS4/720, yeah they are about 3-5x difference, I'm pretty sure the PS3/360 were 20x more powerful than Wii or maybe even more, not 100% sure though so don't take my word on it.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
Zoramon089 said:
I do wonder if that Marcan guy is just trying to stir up people. Knowing what he does about the hardware, comparing it to the Wii situation sounds incredibly ignorant and just generally dumb.
Click to expand...

He does like to stir up trouble but I wouldn't put him down. He admitted to not know as much about the GPU as the overall architecture and CPU.

He posted the RSX die for comparison. Nothing too comparable or exciting here, though

F4D3BZe.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zoramon089

Banned
The Abominable Snowman said:
He does like to stir up trouble but I wouldn't put him down. He admitted to not know as much about the GPU as the overall architecture and CPU.

He posted the RSX die for comparison
Click to expand...

I'm sure he knows what he's talking about, assuming he has the relevant docs/pics/etc to look into. But, like I said before, equating the Wii U, which is only around 3-5x weaker than the Durango/Orbis to the Wii which was around 20x weaker than the 360/PS3 is just...beyond explanation
 
C

CLEEK

Member
Untalkative_Bunny said:
My interpretation:

They [Nintendo] seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's [Microsoft and Sony] prior [PS2/Xbox] and current [PS3/Xbox360]gen. Kind of like the wii all over again.

It doesn't make sense though, because I thought the wii was more powerful than the PS2 and xbox. could be wrong tho.
Click to expand...

Dudes, c'mon, Reading comprehension.

"they seem to be somewhere in the middle of the competition's prior and current gen. Kind of like the Wii all over again."
Click to expand...

At the time of its release, the Wii was half way between the Xbox (prior gen) and the 360 (current gen).

The WiiU will follow suit. It will be halfway between the PS3/360 (prior gen) and PS4/Durango (current gen).
 
A

Apophis2036

Banned
sleeping_dragon said:
Oh I see, so Wii U is basically like the Wii of last gen?
Click to expand...

Many people are already proclaiming so despite no confirmation of PS4/720 specs. It should be much closer visually than Wii to PS360 because the WiiU's GPU is based on modern architecture and the console actually runs games in HD this time.

PS4/720 will obviously be much stronger on paper but because of the way engines scale nowadays it should be able to run 'down scaled' ports *if* third party publishers think there is a market for their games (which i highly doubt they will beyond CoD, Fifa, Madden, Just Dance).

WiiU should get next gen Splinter Cell and Watch_Dogs because of Nintendo's relationship with Ubisoft though.
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
SmokeMaxX said:
It's comparable in a sense. I'm a huge WiiU fanboy, but let's be real. It IS weaker than PS4/720. That's just a fact. It'll likely be in a similar situation as the Wii was, in many ways. The big difference is that the WiiU will be far more impressive comparatively speaking than the Wii was. However, when you have other systems blowing it out of the water, I don't think we should put that much emphasis on specs. The WiiU is technically weaker than the other systems, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have strengths that the other systems can't match. I love my WiiU. Nothing the other systems put out will be able to take away from my ability to play games on my terms. I can play games at the table, in the living room, in the bedroom, with the TV off, with the TV on another channel, while I'm in the restroom, etc. That is a feature that the other two systems don't have and will always give the WiiU an advantage.
Click to expand...
"Blowing it out of the water" is a relative concept. We could see diminishing returns play a bit of a role this gen. Wii U will be okay. I have my PC for when I feel like graphics whoring.
 
D

DreadPirateRoberts

Member
Shokio said:
Everyone is stuck on this 352 figure, completely forgetting the already-stated fact that much of the chip remains unknown, and full of fixed-functions.

Now how much FLOPS performance the other 30% of the chip contains is not certain, but this DOES mean that the total performance is more than just 352, obviously.
Click to expand...

The fixed functions might let developers free up some resources by using fixed function shaders rather than programmable shaders, but they aren't some magic bullet that pushes it up to the level of the other next gen consoles.

Assuming the fixed functions are even there for more than BC.
 
Z

Zoramon089

Banned
SmokeMaxX said:
It's comparable in a sense. I'm a huge WiiU fanboy, but let's be real. It IS weaker than PS4/720. That's just a fact. It'll likely be in a similar situation as the Wii was, in many ways. The big difference is that the WiiU will be far more impressive comparatively speaking than the Wii was. However, when you have other systems blowing it out of the water, I don't think we should put that much emphasis on specs. The WiiU is technically weaker than the other systems, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have strengths that the other systems can't match. I love my WiiU. Nothing the other systems put out will be able to take away from my ability to play games on my terms. I can play games at the table, in the living room, in the bedroom, with the TV off, with the TV on another channel, while I'm in the restroom, etc. That is a feature that the other two systems don't have and will always give the WiiU an advantage.
Click to expand...

Blowing it out of the water? Sounds like what you're doing. A roughly 2x difference is the difference between current gen systems and the Wii U. A 20x difference resulted in the differences between the Wii and the current gen systems. So please explain to me how a 5x difference at most, will result in these astronomical differences you're proposing.
 
S

Shokio

Neo Member
DreadPirateRoberts said:
The fixed functions might let developers free up some resources by using fixed function shaders rather than programmable shaders, but they aren't some magic bullet that pushes it up to the level of the other next gen consoles.

Assuming the fixed functions are even there for more than BC.
Click to expand...

In now way am I saying the other 30% of the chip can bring it close to the PS4 and 720's performance, the Wii U's not going anywhere near their levels. All I'm saying is that it's more than the raw number being thrown around. As of this point, we still can't determine is performance.

All we can firmly say is that at bare-minimum it's 352 FLOPS.
 
D

Darryl

Banned
sleeping_dragon said:
Oh I see, so Wii U is basically like the Wii of last gen?
Click to expand...

no, not at all. Wii U is still in a position to create new visually stunning software even relative to it's competition, whereas Wii was never really in that position although in my opinion it kept at least for a good bit there.
 
J

jerd

Member
SPE said:
Dudes, c'mon, Reading comprehension.



At the time of its release, the Wii was half way between the Xbox (prior gen) and the 360 (current gen).

The WiiU will follow suit. It will be halfway between the PS3/360 (prior gen) and PS4/Durango (current gen).
Click to expand...

The Wii was nowhere near halfway between the two though. Pretty sure it was inferior to Xbox in some ways.
 
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