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[Liberty4all]

Congrats, you're blessed with an excellent metabolism and you have the discipline to maintain an exercise regimen. It does not change change the fact that sugar is not good for you.


Two spoons a day is not going to do anything if the rest of your diet is healthy. That's less than most people consume in even a single beverage, usually. Wine ain't going to hurt you, its sugar content is relatively low. Unless you were drinking a bottle a day or something I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

I WAS drinking half a bottle to a bottle a day until recently. I've cut way back though. Now twice a week usually.

 

[Liberty4all]

Congrats, you're blessed with an excellent metabolism and you have the discipline to maintain an exercise regimen. It does not change change the fact that sugar is not good for you.

I used to have a metabolism where adding a few potatoes in saw me gaining weight to the level of a few pounds a week or not "running" seven miles after a meal would slowly do the same.
My "exercise regimen" is taking walks often and going to the gym three times a week for probably less than 25 minutes of actual exercise each session.
I'm not arguing with you, you will believe what you want to.

Low carb worked for me... But I get little exercise aside from walking around the downtown core every few days. I've started slowly adding some carbs back in... Mainly toast, pasta once a week and the occasional potato.

 

[blame space]

"the occasional potato" is like poetry.

 

[cryptic]

Low carb worked for me... But I get little exercise aside from walking around the downtown core every few days. I've started slowly adding some carbs back in... Mainly toast, pasta once a week and the occasional potato.

Nothing wrong with that, unless you're a bodybuilder your food should only be a means to fuel your function and not interfere with that.
A lot of people, in the worries regarding food, encounter a sad truth a lot of people never realize until they're there and have slowed their metabolism to a crawl, that the only one who cares about your six pack is you.

 

[Izayoi]

I used to have a metabolism where adding a few potatoes in saw me gaining weight to the level of a few pounds a week or not "running" seven miles after a meal would slowly do the same.
Today, my "exercise regimen" is taking walks often as I enjoy doing so and going to the gym three times a week for probably less than 25 minutes of actual exercise each session.

I'm not arguing with you, you will believe what you want to.

Your metabolism can change. The fact of the matter is, if most people ate what you claim without exercising they would balloon very quickly.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Speaking of all this diet mumbo jumo, which is more important to consider when trying to lose weight Calories or Carbohydrates?

Like would a sandwich with lower calories & high carbs be better than one with higher calories, but lower carbs?

I say this because a lot of 'non fat' vs 'lite' salad dressing have this.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So no fruit, juice, bread, pasta, rice, condiments, cereal, or sugar. Sounds like a fun diet.

In all honesty? It really is a fun diet. Since I started down this path two years ago, I've learned a ton about cooking and food in general. I'm eating so much better than I ever was when I just went with whatever was easy.

Speaking of all this diet mumbo jumo, which is more important to consider when trying to lose weight Calories or Carbohydrates?

Like would a sandwich with lower calories & high carbs be better than one with higher calories, but lower carbs?

I say this because a lot of 'non fat' vs 'lite' salad dressing have this.

I'd say focus on the carbs, because that will prevent you from eating a lot of garbage. It really isn't simple, though. I implore you to spend the time to research this stuff on your own if you are serious about wanting to get healthy.

Don't try to mix low-fat with low-carb, though.

 

[blackflag]

Bread is awful, TLDR it converts to sugar in your body.

Of course, you can get away with eating it if you work out and are active as your insulin resistance will be higher. However overall it is absolutely terrible for human consumption.

If you are going to eat carbs, you are far better off getting them from a much more nutrition source.


Bread has little to no nutrition. Even 100 percent whole grain whole wheat bread is not GOOD for you. Fiber is nice, but you can get fiber from many other more nutritious places.

I mean, when I or others bulk we increase the amount of carbs we intake because it allows us to bulk faster. Adding muscle and fat to our bodies. Even with intense working out, you add fat, and the fat is added not just from consuming an over abundance of calories, but from increasing carb intake.

When I cut, as many others, I eat 100 percent Ketogenic. So, as close to 0 carbs as possible. The fat melts away in a matter of two weeks, and I am consuming almost the same amount of food, but almost 100 percent of it is fat/protein.

Normally, I eat Ketogenic but I consume a moderate amount of carbs only in the form of nutritious vegetables. However, 60 percent of my calories are always from fat, and I consume enough protein to maintain muscle mass. I stay as low carb as I possibly can. I won't always be in Ketossis, but I will never be pigging out on carbs.

When I changed the way I ate, and got rid of carbs, and started eating a shit load of fat. My blood lipid levels became damn near perfect for my age.

Yeah this worked for me. Eating keto dropped my cholesterol from over 200 to 113 with most of it being HDL......according to doctors i should be having a heart attack from eating a dozen eggs and a package of bacon a day.

My diet is different now but it did what I needed it to do.
Now I just eat grilled chicken breast, broccoli, and 1 serving of almonds a day.

 

[zoukka]

I will never completely stop eating dark rye bread. Tastes good, keeps my stomach regular and my shit of high quality.

50% minimum of rye grain is required for the bread to be called rye bread.

 

[afreaknamedpete]

Speaking of all this diet mumbo jumo, which is more important to consider when trying to lose weight Calories or Carbohydrates?

Like would a sandwich with lower calories & high carbs be better than one with higher calories, but lower carbs?

I say this because a lot of 'non fat' vs 'lite' salad dressing have this.

That's pretty much the heart of the controversy. You have the ADA and what feels like the mainstream opinion that the best way to lose weight is just eat less calories. Then you have a growing body of scientists advocating replacing carbohydrate calories with that from fats and vegetables. It's all very controversial... but take a look for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_research_related_to_low-carbohydrate_diets

Alot of results form big journals support low-carb, but there are plenty of studies that don't. I'd say most of them say low carb is better for losing weight though.

 

[MrToughPants]

"the occasional potato" is like poetry.

Potatoetry

 

[triplestation]

bread makes my shit look like a a bigass blunt

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Nothing wrong with that, unless you're a bodybuilder your food should only be a means to fuel your function and not interfere with that.
A lot of people, in the worries regarding food, encounter a sad truth a lot of people never realize until they're there and have slowed their metabolism to a crawl, that the only one who cares about your six pack is you.

You've posted a lot of weird shit in this thread, but this one kind of bothered me.

Are you saying that it's not worth caring about being healthy unless you can get some kind of recognition from other people?

 

[cryptic]

Your metabolism can change. The fact of the matter is, if most people ate what you claim without exercising they would balloon very quickly.

After a certain point, I bet their weight would stabilize and they would begin to lose weight like I did, as their metabolism speeds up and better regulars leptin signals and what not, with glycogen stores topped off eliminating stress and allowing optimal function of the body. Remember, nothing fills glycogen faster than sugar.

You've posted a lot of weird shit in this thread, but this one kind of bothered me.

Are you saying that it's not worth caring about being healthy unless you can get some kind of recognition from other people?

There's nothing too healthy about having six pack abs achieved in the conventional sense. There are numerous studies that show approaching bodybuilding levels of physique leave a man nearly impotent(extremely low testosterone), high cortisol levels, and a fucked metabolism. Just think of the off season cravings that cause guys to balloon up right after the big cuts.

I think this has more to do with people starving themselves to get there though, which is basically what I said is wrong all along. If you can get six pack abs while eating what you want because you have a strong metabolism than that's great. The problem is 99% people are getting there through extremely restrictive diets that are not all good for them.

I'll probably source those studies and then go to sleep.

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/03/scientific-bb-contest-prep-coverage-six.html
http://180degreehealth.com/2013/02/what-i-want-to-be-when-i-grow-up
http://180degreehealth.com/2013/02/the-effect-of-bodybuilding-and-figure-competition-on-metabolism
Those are all interesting blog posts that source their stuff to pubmed and whatever. The first guy is a fancy scientist and 180 degree health is just a free thinking crazy without a degree.

 

[Dead Man]

If bread was so bad, civilisation would have failed. It may not be perfect, and like anything, moderation is good. But seriously. 10,000 years.

 

[blame space]

civiilization has never functioned like it does now, though. it could have just been a weird oversight.

 

[JaskoX1]

went through this whole thread, I still not one post I could live by

I'm drunk also, goodnight and cya in the morning

 

[Valnen]

Bread is poison

And now the thread became dumb.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

"There's almost an anti sugar cult that developed from the 90s' onward, a point at which most research showed it to be not only benign, but perhaps beneficial."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml
http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/02/quick-commentary-on-dr-lustigs-take-on.html

I have about quart of orange juice a day, 2 quarts of milk, as much haagen dasz as I feel like, all the fruits I want, and lots of steak, eggs, etc.

I've never felt better, and I was on the paleo diet for years. I've still kept off bread because I just don't see a reason, three+ years now.

My findings are that all the sugar I enjoyed without issue as a kid is not a problem and never was.

On a good day I'll eat about 3,000+ calories without issue, the only problem I'm having now is I'm losing weight and I'm worried about my lifts.

I used to have a metabolism where adding a few potatoes in saw me gaining weight to the level of a few pounds a week or not "running" seven miles after a meal would slowly do the same.
Today, my "exercise regimen" is taking walks often as I enjoy doing so and going to the gym three times a week for probably less than 25 minutes of actual exercise each session.

I'm not arguing with you, you will believe what you want to.

After a certain point, I bet their weight would stabilize and they would begin to lose weight like I did, as their metabolism speeds up and better regulars leptin signals and what not, with glycogen stores topped off eliminating stress and allowing optimal function of the body. Remember, nothing fills glycogen faster than sugar.



There's nothing healthy about having six pack abs. There are numerous studies that show approaching bodybuilding levels of physique leave a man nearly impotent(extremely low testosterone), high cortisol levels, and a fucked metabolism. Just think of the off season cravings that cause guys to balloon up right after the big cuts.

So what exactly are you doing during those short and infrequent trips to the gym that lets you stuff your face with sugar all day and still lose weight?

How much do you weigh anyway? How tall?

If bread was so bad, civilisation would have failed. It may not be perfect, and like anything, moderation is good. But seriously. 10,000 years.

It's a cheap way to stay alive when there is nothing else to eat, that's for sure. By all means, choose to eat bread over starving. No one is advocating starvation... at least I think no one is.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

I think it's often just polemic turned exaggeration. If you're trying to make a meaningful point by calling on controversy it's easy to overshoot the mark, I think it's easy to dramatize health stuff because we all know it is or should be important but sometimes I think it borders on hypochondria.

 

[segasonic]

Bread is bad for you

Eat Pizza and you'll be fine!

 

[web01]

Unfortunately there is alot of crazies on Gaf spewing regurgitated factoids from their diet booklets of choice about how wheat is the devil. Wheat is fine in moderation. Of course the less refined the better, avoid white bread if possible.

 

[UFRA]

Bread is bad for you

Eat Pizza and you'll be fine!

Yup! Pizza is a vegetable, some school even said so. There was a thread here on it once lol.

 

[Vice]

I know your body converts carbs to sugar but isn't sugar, in moderation, needed or at the very least harmless?

 

[blackflag]

I know your body converts carbs to sugar but isn't sugar, in moderation, needed or at the very least harmless?

The only thing that absolutely needs glucose is your brain. It doesn't need much. In the absense of carbs, your body will convert enough protein to glucose to take care of that.

If you aren't diabetic or insulin resistant, or fat then if say its fine in moderation.

 

[ChimpBottle]

How does that invalidate the argument?

Because I consume bread at an extreme rate, yet I am the skinniest person I know. If bread was to make one fat, it would have had to have had some effect on me after more than 10 years of daily consumption.

 

[dejay]

Because I consume bread at an extreme rate, yet I am the skinniest person I know. If bread was to make one fat, it would have had to have had some effect on me after more than 10 years of daily consumption.

I have a friend - no joke, his diet consisted mainly of cake, bread, beer and meat. Always skinny as a rake - I was so jealous. Until he got gout at around age 35. Now he's not even allowed tomato sauce.

(edit) Not necessarily related to you, but it brought that story to mind.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I think everyone can agree that when you're eating something and someone you don't know tells you that its bad for you, that person is an asshole. Right?

Absolutely.

 

[cryptic]

So what exactly are you doing during those short and infrequent trips to the gym that lets you stuff your face with sugar all day and still lose weight?

How much do you weigh anyway? How tall?



It's a cheap way to stay alive when there is nothing else to eat, that's for sure. By all means, choose to eat bread over starving. No one is advocating starvation... at least I think no one is.

Just a 30-45 min. walk to the gym deads, squats, and bench. For assistance I do chins, pulls, leg press, and rows-just recently.

I'm 5'7'' 170 lbs. last I checked, it's around 4:00 AM here and I apologize if I'm not being too clear on things.
Additionally, I started Intermittent Fasting a few years ago and I eat within an 8 hour window after working out, usually about 20 oz. of chocolate milk, and a tin of sardines sometimes in water, no extra PUFA besides that in the fish.
Then I walk back, liver once a week, at least 4 oz., other days steak post workout, steak usually every day, eggs at night, lots of cheese and kerrygold butter or coconut oil. A glass of orange juice to wash things down if I feel like it, definitely fruit, maybe ice cream.

It's my personal paleo basically with the addition of sugar, mostly from fruit related things, and I feel very good on it.
If you're interested in it in more depth, Ray Peat, who basically coined this way of eating long ago, goes into various detail throughout his site in articles.
Here's a list of more candid exchanges between him and others detailing his beliefs in a more base way as some find his articles overly complex and I skim them mostly:
http://peatarian.com/?qa=private-corresponding#58.
Good night and be good.

Bonus:Fun coffee article. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/caffeine.shtml

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

I have a friend - no joke, his diet consisted mainly of cake, bread, beer and meat. Always skinny as a rake - I was so jealous. Until he got gout at around age 35. Now he's not even allowed tomato sauce.

(edit) Not necessarily related to you, but it brought that story to mind.

This reminds me about reading of Michael Jordan early days in the NBA, he ate nothing but junk & fast food & didn't even work out all that much, yet he was always super slender & lean.
Now he is 50 & tubby as fuck.

 

[Evlar]

If bread was so bad, civilisation would have failed. It may not be perfect, and like anything, moderation is good. But seriously. 10,000 years.

We don't even need to look back in time for the evidence. There are billions of people living an average lifespan longer than ever before possible, and they're doing it on diets loaded with wheat, rice, and corn.

 

[commedieu]

"the occasional potato" is like poetry.

a potato with a top hat.

 

[DatDude]

I feel so uneducated as a an american eater. Honestly, why isn't this shit taught in schools?

So anything made out of bread and potatoes is bad for you, will lead you to gaining weight, correct?

 

[Mudkips]

Look at how canola oil is made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omjWmLG0EAs

Humans never ate this stuff until the last 100 years and at high temperatures they become unstable.

It has nothing to do with paleo.

What's your argument, exactly?
Is the manufacturing of canola oil somehow bad for you? If so, how exactly?
Are the temperatures we cook canola at bad for us? If so, how exactly?

Or is this just yet another "Processed foods are bad, mmmkay?" argument?

just don't eat anything that says refined or enriched

Same for you. Enriched and fortified foods are good things. Refining is just a process of removing shit you don't want from what you do want.

 

[PaulExcellent]

i heard that it makes you pee blue

thats why i dont eat it

 

[Devolution]

Depends on the person.

It's pretty much empty carbs/calories though. If you want to improve your diet and exercise it's best you cut it out for a while.

 

[Always-honest]

Not just sugar. It's also a shitload of salt. Same with sodas.

 

[Gustav]

I really love green vegetables. I actually have to moderate them. I once ate like 5 cups of broccoli for lunch. Jesus it was the worst feeling in the world.



I see you anecdote and raise you this.

I'm 100% Italian and grew up on Italian foods. My parents are diabetic. All four grandparents were diabetic. 3 died at a young age. Two from heart disease and one once her diabetes got out of control.

But there was always plenty of pasta for dinner!

Italy has one of the highest life expectancies in the world.

.

 

[NIN90]

If bread was so bad, civilisation would have failed. It may not be perfect, and like anything, moderation is good. But seriously. 10,000 years.

Far as I know bread started being mass produced in the 20th century. That's about 100 years, not 10,000.

 

[Dennis]

Bread consumed in 10,000 BC is not the same as most bread consumed in 2013 AD.

 

[V_Arnold]

Indeed. I am more even more confused now...

All I can say is that my health improved almost instantly after dropping white bread from my diet. I have since then reintroduced it in a very minimalistic way (i.e. less than 60g wholegrain a day, and not every day), but the overall point is that you do not need as much carbohydrates as it has been embedded in the current western societies.

Just eating bread for breakfast and for your last meal at the day in a non-moderated way can get you over ~140-200g of almost entirely useless non-complex carbohydrates. What are you going to do with that? And that is assuming you do not eat any other source for carbs that day! Not counting snacks, cookies, chips, fast food, whatever.

Dietary threads are messy because we have different metabolisms, different resistances to certain types of food, and most importantly: different lifestyles!

From an anecdotal and personal point of view, I have seen people get away with more bad stuff if they work out beside it, but that does not mean that problems cant come long-term. The neglect of fats, the essential amino acids, the long-term lack of key vitamins and most importantly, the overprocessed, FIBERLESS lifestyle can fuck you up heavily once just one cog slips in your machine.

And really, one cog failing is all it takes. One day, your immune system is weakened enough, and bam, your digestive system might no longer accept milk. Or gluten. Or something else. Or one day, you find yourself constipated. (Lack of fibers, yaay). Or one day, you realize that your heart is pounding like crazy, and all you did was eat like there is no tomorrow!

These issues needs to be adressed before they happen, or as soon as they happen, and for that, everyone should eat much more fibers that they do on average, much less salt that they do now, and should have a much more balanced protein-fat-carbs ratio than they do now.

And if we look at this puzzle closely, bread does not really have a large place in it.

 

[Moff]

I can definitely confirm that bread is indeed bad
I ate shitloads of bread for decades, I am quite overweight.
after many diets I just got the feeling its the bread, or carbs in general.
I finally tried fome low carb diets like atkins, paleo and others and the results are really astonishing, whenever I eat fewer carbs, I lose about 1-3 pounds a week. and I eat as much protein and fat as I want at the same time. its really just the carbs that make you fat. I am also convinced by now that ANY diet that works is somehow tied to eating fewer carbs.

so yes, bread is just as evil as sugar, they're carbs and they're the devil.

 

[V_Arnold]

so yes, bread is just as evil as sugar, they're carbs and they're the devil.

Except that with a low amount, they are pretty much necessary - if you do not eat 120g carb a day, your body will either turn your fat to carbs itself, or convert your protein/fat intake into it. So at least a low amount of carbs is required long-term, as far as I know (Which is not an issue for meat-eaters, but as a vegetarian, I would hate going through all the effort to get 100+g of protein a day only to see it converted to glucose

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

We don't even need to look back in time for the evidence. There are billions of people living an average lifespan longer than ever before possible, and they're doing it on diets loaded with wheat, rice, and corn.

people in the past did physical labor and were active, they also didn't eat the processed shit with sugar and salt in everything like we do. we have a exercise issue now just as much as a poor dietary one. Diabetes is exploding because of a combination of both issues. Simply looking at age expectancy doesnt tell the whole story

 

[YoungFa]

Since when is sugar bad?

 

[V_Arnold]

We don't even need to look back in time for the evidence. There are billions of people living an average lifespan longer than ever before possible, and they're doing it on diets loaded with wheat, rice, and corn.

...and they are heavily reliant on medicine. Also, life expentency has nothing to do with the quality of life itself. Not to mention that the comparison is flawed in itself, because life expectency did not increase with bread, but with the progress in medicines and hygiene.

 

[Moff]

Except that with a low amount, they are pretty much necessary - if you do not eat 120g carb a day, your body will either turn your fat to carbs itself, or convert your protein/fat intake into it. So at least a low amount of carbs is required long-term, as far as I know (Which is not an issue for meat-eaters, but as a vegetarian, I would hate going through all the effort to get 100+g of protein a day only to see it converted to glucose

shouldnt be a problem as a vegetarian either, most vegetables contain enough carb, too, dont they?
its called low carb and not no-carb. I dont think no-carb is even possible.

 

[Gintamen]

If bread was so bad, civilisation would have failed. It may not be perfect, and like anything, moderation is good. But seriously. 10,000 years.

Reading the first paragraph on wikipedia would have shown you that this kind of bread:

wasn't existing thousands years ago. It was flat like Naan

or Injera

and it wasn't full of shitty sugar beet syrup or whatever surrogate is used in other countries to make white bread looks like a whole grain/dark one. It's a shame they are allowed to, even worse that 90% of bread is like that nowadays. I wish one could charge the whole bread industry here for fattening and cheating their customers.

 

[V_Arnold]

shouldnt be a problem as a vegetarian either, most vegetables contain enough carb, too, dont they?
its called low carb and not no-carb. I dont think no-carb is even possible.

The carb is not hard to get, the protein is more tricky, especially since I train regularly. I basically cant "afford" to not have protein in the stuff I eat, even if it is as a "snack". Also, it is not impossible for me to have days with less than 50g carb intake, if I really want to.

 

[alekth]

Buy a breadmaker machine and make it yourself if you can't find decent bread where you live. My family has completely switched to this.

Supermarket bread is awful anyway.
Obesity rates didn't change as much in the last couple of thousand years as in the last few decades, and even 50 years ago it wasn't so bad. Bread has gotten extremely processed and often loaded with extra sugar, and if you're looking to lose weight, eating it certainly won't make the process easier. But it's not good bread, and not even pretty bad bread that has gotten people into metabolic syndrome problems. Once you have that or are close to it, bread might be very bad for you, but it's way more likely that sugar-loaded drinks and snacks have gotten you there.