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Transgender journalist at EG Expo called "this person" on stage at MS event (See OP)
- Thread starter winstano
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Thunder Monkey
Banned
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
So he couldn't tell if it was a dude or chick? Nothing wrong with this then. Not his fault the transgender is androgynous.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
If I could decide, both. Since I can't, GAF would be enough.
Night Angel
Member
Sounds like you have completely reasonable expectations for what the comedian should do. And that giving his side of the story is "earth shattering silence." No bias detected. Carry on.
I think you should watch the movie "I Just didn't do it." Based on a true story, a young man was accused of groping a high school girl, arrested and charged. He went through 5 years of legal battle, while pleading that he was innocent...
BronsonLee
Member
She tried to reach out to him to talk privately off Twitter, we'll see what comes of it. I hope this ends up getting resolved quietly.
You're the only one peddling this angle as far as I can tell... you picked an iota of a larger post and have kept running. So maybe it's time to let it lay?
MesserWolf
Member
Sorry I meant the chain of posts.... just read the person I was quoting and few other of his and my posts ....
what rape allegations ?
Seriously .... just read.
talking about false accusations.. ...
... you do realize that someone can be biased towards an idea, right?
Wow. That's horrible. It seems so easy for one angry person (especially a woman accusing a man, or a minority accusing a nonminority, because of increased media coverage/scrutiny) to almost ruin someone's life with one accusation. The law can decide some things, but it can't decide how people react towards you.
MackAttack
Banned
I wish there was a better way to deal with something like this rather than ruining some working comedians career.
Can the LGBT community quit this life-destroying behavior? Was there an attempt to contact this guy directly and educate him instead of public shaming and making sure he will probably never get a corporate gig again?
Can the LGBT community quit this life-destroying behavior? Was there an attempt to contact this guy directly and educate him instead of public shaming and making sure he will probably never get a corporate gig again?
Fried Food
Banned
I really hope she didn't make this up/ mishear / misinterpret the presenter. It sounds like she definelty did misintrept the "more women on stage" part. This makes me think that she could have been caught up by that and wasn't thinking clearly for the rest of it.
Watched some of fraser's standup online. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that would insult unsuspecting crowd people, especially outside of an actual comedy club.
Watched some of fraser's standup online. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that would insult unsuspecting crowd people, especially outside of an actual comedy club.
Misgendering people is one thing. It happens, people make mistakes.
Calling someone "it" is not misgendering, it's dehumanizing, and it's not okay, in any capacity.
Maybe straight and cisgender people should quit being so damn ignorant then, since you're into making huge generalizations. What a fucked up thing to say.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
It was just a response to another post. This whole thread is about allegations.
robotzombie
Member
Let's pretend his story is exactly true (I'm not saying it is), then this is the following scenario:
This guy referred to someone as "this person" because he did not know what gender they are
The person then goes on twitter saying that he referred to her as "it" and "thing", specifically knowing she was transgendered and intentionally targeting her
Now, his entire career has been damaged (Microsoft will never hire him again, other companies may get wind of this situation and would have no interest hiring him because of even the hint of taking on bad publicity for no reason), he'll be harassed on public forums in which he needs to use to promote himself, people in his personal life or people in general who know of him may have their opinions of him sullied, and all of this because someone on twitter just flat out lied about him (which is what happened if you take his story at its word). It is an insane amount of damage that shouldn't be swept under the rug. If his story was true, he was harmed big time and the other party is directly responsible and should be held accountable.
Now, it is important to note that I am completely neutral on this matter, have no idea what actually happened, who is right and wrong, am not heavily invested in it either way, and would only be interested in actual factual information as opposed to each party's story. However, the above is all coming from the point of view of the comedian based on his assessment of the situation. IF that is true, then I don't know how you could consider him "low"
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Not one person can say it doesn't happen. But I just don't see why it's in any way relevant. When talking rape allegations or this case.
In particular in this case it has no relevancy. This would have been seen by dozens. So far we've got one person with an offensive slant of their own saying something, and then the young woman that was insulted and offended.
Until more say what they heard or saw we just have one real source.
krypt0nian
Banned
Not surprisingly the victim blaming crew is here in full bloom.
BronsonLee
Member
Whoaaaa there dude...
I get what you are saying but if she didn't want to make a story about it she wouldn't have posted it on her twitter and talked about how she would be "blaming and shaming" people in the future. I understand she has backtracked on this now and said she is sorry for calling him out publicly (out of anger and frustration) and not handling it more "professionally" but when you put things on a public forum you don't really have the right to decide how others will use your information. When Kotaku asked her if she would be ok making a story out of it what they were likely asking her was if she wanted to comment on it personally. Obviously she declined because she doesn't want this to escalate any further.
SanguineShark
Member
Wait, what the? That's not right, at all. It's pretty low even for them.
edit: Hmm seems there may be a little more to this.
If you would actually read, she stated from the beginning that she tried to get in contact with him, but was refused by staff. They wouldn't even tell her his name.
Feeling humiliated, she guesses his name and tweets to her 200 or so twitter followers. Then it gets picked up by the internet and completely blown way out of proportion. She didn't intend to ruin his life, just complain on the internet like everyone does.
Dictator93
Member
i think people are waiting for more information before judging at all. like myself and a number of other posters.
Your post seems driveby as if you did not read the thread.
This guy gets it.
krypt0nian
Banned
Most are but then read the last page or so. Not a drive by an observation.
MackAttack is full on.
blaming the victim of...what exactly?
Warmijwilf
Banned
Maybe because we've actually read and checked over the incidents and we personally believe the dude over the victim?
Either way there's no solid confirmation of either party being right.
Lambda Pie
Banned
which one?
Data Ghost
Member
To be honest it would be better if this thread was closed. None of us know the exact facts and it is probably causing more harm than good. Laura should have contacted him on Twitter directly, not tweeting it to the world. Such a private thing should have been kept private, unfortunately this is the uglier side of social media. Words are weapons.
It's OK in comedy clubs, which is probably where this guy usually works. It's not OK in the forum he was working. He should know that. And I'm saying that under the assumption that if he called her "it" it was due to how she was dressed, not because he knew she was transgendered.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Pretty much. Not to make light of trans tribulations, but if this shook out on her actually totally misinterpreting stuff and hurting his bottom line (which this undoubtedly now will have done), thats a case. If you want equality, you want equality, not cushioned special pity-treatment.
I guess at this point unless a video surfaces we're never going to be 100% certain.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
She tried to talk to him way earlier when she was at the con, and was immensely annoyed about being told off doing so. Then she vented to her few hundred followers that are probably VERY interested about that.
I don't see her making a story out of it at all, all that came after that wasn't really her fault. By your logic, no one should vent on anything on any social media ever.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Name them and shame them, bro. Don't be a coward.
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
According to the "comedian", he only said "this person". How would he even know (s)he was a transgender from a few minutes on stage?
Whiteknightslol
Thunder Monkey
Banned
My thoughts are that rape allegations have absolutely no bearing on a single thing in this thread. Use defamation of character allegations before trotting out anything to do with rape.
One is likely going to have few if any witnesses, not only emotionally traumatized but likely physically traumatized victims, and is rape!
I don't see why rape allegations are even being used as a point of reference! Being accused of rape and being accused of gender insensitivity aren't going to have equal responses in any area of society. Especially since we're talking about a comedian!
A comedian that might have insulted someone!
I don't think anything about rape allegations has a single slice of merit in this particular thread. That's all. Is that more clear?
I'm not sure what to say.
Without any kind of video evidence or whatever, or more people to say this is or isn't true, there kinda isn't anything that can be really said. This either could be exactly what has been reported and the guy (whether intentionally hurtful or not) said a really, really stupid thing. OR this could be Laura herself kinda overblowing this and Kotaku making a bigger deal out of this than it ever should've (which they are not averse to doing...)
We just don't really know right now, and I'm not about to jump to conclusions without more evidence, anecdotal or video. I've seen too many times when people jump to one side when they shouldn't have or whatever...
Without any kind of video evidence or whatever, or more people to say this is or isn't true, there kinda isn't anything that can be really said. This either could be exactly what has been reported and the guy (whether intentionally hurtful or not) said a really, really stupid thing. OR this could be Laura herself kinda overblowing this and Kotaku making a bigger deal out of this than it ever should've (which they are not averse to doing...)
We just don't really know right now, and I'm not about to jump to conclusions without more evidence, anecdotal or video. I've seen too many times when people jump to one side when they shouldn't have or whatever...
And according to her, she was called "it". If he got her name, it would be safe to assume she was a woman, and I don't think she'd had a problem correcting him if he addressed her as as he.
And you don't have to write "(s)he". She's a woman. Address her with female pronouns.
I'm not sure anyone disagrees with you... you're the only person still talking about them aside from us merry few responding?
not_so_special
Banned
what a helpful post
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
You have made it more of a point than anyone in here. They were in response to a single post.
JacksUsername
Member
Pretty much.
I can already see the twitter posts from both of them saying "After talking with Fraser/Laura, we cleared a lot of things up and understand how we both might have gone overboard. Going forward, we'll try to appreciate looking at things from both perspectives, etc. etc."
The first course of action should have been a private discussion anyway. Understandably, it sounds like she tried to speak with him at the event, but there should have been attempts afterward, since trying to confront a speaker at a public event is probably not going to happen unless you contact the speaker's handler or representative in advance (which was impossible given the situation).
Throwing a twitter tantrum is not the professional or appropriate way to handle this. Obviously emotions are high, but we're not talking about children or teenagers here, and if you want to be taken seriously, you can't scream at the internet for an hour as opposed to taking proper action to clarify the situation.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I also didn't introduce it into the conversation.
I'm trying to figure out why it was. Because it has no merit whatsoever to any of the thread. And whoever did should be ashamed.
The difference is I'm not using it as a point of reference for why false accusations are bad,
Just tuned in to see the updated OP. My thoughts exactly.
This is really helpful.
Yeah, it's clear that you are hung up on this rape angle, even though it had virtually nothing to do with the discussion before you kept bringing it up. Seriously, it's been mentioned exponentially more since you took offense to it's use than before. Give it a fucking rest already.
Don't we also have his side of the story where he claims that he never called her "it"?
I was going to cut Microsoft some slack on this as this guy doesn't work for them permanently and I was sure they'd not hire him again and apologize but it seems they've gone with a "she misunderstood" combined with "it didn't happen"
As far as Microsoft's image is concerned to me the apology or lack there of was worse than the incident, as the incident itself was not Microsofts fault, though the original incident is still terrible, but mainly for the "comedian/presenter"
As far as Microsoft's image is concerned to me the apology or lack there of was worse than the incident, as the incident itself was not Microsofts fault, though the original incident is still terrible, but mainly for the "comedian/presenter"
Yeah, good God, his guilty-until-proven innocent take on things is terrifying. Look up "Blame a Black Man" Syndrome as well.
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