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[L*][*N*K]

Before I start, I have to say that I am a huge fan of both "Original Sin" games. I have played them in single-player and co-op multiple times. I am very excited to start BG3 as soon as I settle into my new apartment. I tried to recommend the game to a friend of mine who loves ARPGs. He's quite skilled at theory crafting builds, but he flat-out rejects the turn-based battle system. My question or topic of discussion is: Do you relate to this issue? And do you think if BG3 had a battle system similar to "Dragon Age: Inquisition", it would have made the game more appealing to a broader audience?

 

[Hugare]

With a more approachable fighting system, it would have been even bigger with people , yes

The combat really didnt gel with me at first (never played a cRPG before to completion, always dropped them). Even DO 2 I dropped pretty early on.

But I'm more than 10h into BG 3 and the combat keeps getting more and more enjoyable. The pacing and presentation do wonders to keep people engaged until finally getting the combat system.

I wouldnt have preffered any other combat system for this game. It matches the game perfectly.

Any other combat system would take something away that makes the game special

 

[amigastar]

The combat is fine as it is. I love Turn-based games so for me it's a big plus.
If it would have broader audience with a different combat system? Can't really tell and don't really care.

 

[ViolentP]

Combat is exactly what it should be, which is also not for everybody.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Catering to the masses is how Final Fantasy lost its way and became an action game.

 

[Interfectum]

The masses are asses, fuck’em. Not everything needs to be dumbed down trash and it’s okay for a game not to appeal to everyone.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Deep and tactical turn based combat is the best that gaming has to offer. It's just not for everyone.

 

[DanEON]

I never liked turn based games. I actually hate it (Final Fantasy, Persona, Dragon Quest, etc..). But with BG its different, the way you have to position your characters on the field and move them as the battle rolls, its amazing. The way you can use the environment in you favor. Throw items from your inventory at the enemies. There is so much things you can do in combat that its mind blowing.

So even if you dont like turn based games, you still need to give BG3 a chance.

 

[Wildebeest]

We know the answer because Larian only made real time games before DOS and your friend didn't play them and neither did you.

 

[Hudo]

Before I start, I have to say that I am a huge fan of both "Original Sin" games. I have played them in single-player and co-op multiple times. I am very excited to start BG3 as soon as I settle into my new apartment. I tried to recommend the game to a friend of mine who loves ARPGs. He's quite skilled at theory crafting builds, but he flat-out rejects the turn-based battle system. My question or topic of discussion is: Do you relate to this issue? And do you think if BG3 had a battle system similar to "Dragon Age: Inquisition", it would have made the game more appealing to a broader audience?

Dragon Age Inquisition is exactly the wrong game to be inspired by. BioWare, for some really weird and stupid reason, has somehow convinced themselves taht their combat in Dragon Age now must attempt to satisfy both the action-game lovers and the "old-school" CRPG crowd. And Dragon Age Inquisition manages to shit the bed in both directions. I'd rather have them focus on one thing and make it good. If you want to make an action game, then go all-in with the combat in that direction. If you want to make a tactical game then go all-in in that direction.

 

[bender]

It already has broad appeal which is something to marvel. I never thought I'd see they day.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Turn based is almost always better than real-time with pause for crpgs. It has way better combat than neverwinter nights and BG2 despite the ruleset being worse imo.

 

[Rentahamster]

Do you relate to this issue?

I understand why people feel that way, but I don't relate to it. A good gameplay system is a good gameplay system, turn based or real time.

 

[Vlodril]

I thnk they have the best turn based combat systems. Some of their fights are really well done too and are pretty complex.

 

[Mozzarella]

No i dont relate, and i dont think it should resemble DA:I
Larian makes the best turn based combat systems for RPGs, the ones that rival it are not RPGs but strategy turn based.

 

[Vox Machina]

ARPGs and CRPGs could not be more different from each other at this point in time. ARPGs are barely even RPGs nowadays. Personally, no, I wouldn't like CRPGs to have real-time combat. Choosing turn-based combat was first thing I did when starting PoE II: Deadfire.

The pace of combat is what truly allows these types of combat systems in CRPGs to shine. Similarly, I don't want my Starfield combat to pause to allow me to see that some space pirate I just shot deflected the bullet because he got a good Dex roll either. Games should be allowed to focus on what they truly excel in.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

Combat is exactly what it should be, which is also not for everybody.

Completely agree. Never played a game like this, and in general not a huge fan on turn based. But I'm loving the combat in BG3 and it fits the game perfectly.

 

[stickkidsam]

Deep and tactical turn based combat is the best that gaming has to offer. It's just not for everyone.

Personally, I find jump jet ninja running with a pistol that shoots face seeking bullets as my giant robot (he’s my friend) wielding a massive fuck off sword falls from space and CRUSHES another giant robot is the best gaming has to offer…

…but yeah your thing is cool too

 

[ChoosableOne]

If you remove that unique turn-based combat system out of their games, you're left with a generic RPG with a terrible story(I'm talking about original sins). It's like taking guns out of Counter-Strike so kids can play it. Look what that mentality did to FF. If you don't like it, beg for spin-offs instead.

 

[GigaBowser]

everytime I plays turn based game

 

[Arsic]

The combat is good but it’s absolutely the least attractive part of the package to me.

Imagine Larian making an ARPG like PoE/Diablo, but with everything else for the campaign /side quests etc being like BG3.

Plus with how talented they are their version of end game would be immense.

I’d suck a dick for their next game to be an ARPG.

 

[Atrus]

There is enough money to be made with strategic turn based systems to avoid catering to the folks that made Diablo what it is today, a mindless, thoughtless ARPG in a pleasant looking wrapper.

 

[cartman414]

Imagine using DA:I as an example when DA: Origins was a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

 

[anthraticus]

The combat is good but it’s absolutely the least attractive part of the package to me.

Imagine Larian making an ARPG like PoE/Diablo, but with everything else for the campaign /side quests etc being like BG3.

Plus with how talented they are their version of end game would be immense.

I’d suck a dick for their next game to be an ARPG.

I've heard the exact opposite from cRPG fans, with combat being the best part (but too easy) and the writing, characters, etc...being typical modern sjw crap.

Reads the last sentence.....Yea, Sounds about right.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I've heard the exact opposite from cRPG fans, with combat being the best part (but too easy) and the writing, characters, etc...being typical modern sjw crap.

There are CRPG fans saying that for every slightly more recent crpg out there, so i wouldn't take their word for it.

 

[anthraticus]

There are CRPG fans saying that for every slightly more recent crpg out there, so i wouldn't take their word for it.

Haven't played much of the more mainstream newshit (just stuff like Age of Decedance, UnderRail, Grimoire, Knights of the Chalice..and that stuff certinatly isn't)....But I would take their word over mostly modern gamers on console-centric sites any day.

That's an easy one

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

It was my first crpg and I'm not going to lie, it took me some time to understand it.
Now I'm doing crazy things just to explore the freedom.

 

[Guilty_AI]

....But I would take their word over mostly modern gamers on console-centric sites any day.

That's an easy one

In that case you shouldn't be playing anything post-2007, just replaying games from 1998 over and over again cause apparently everything since then was horrible.

No modern editions with QoL improvements and compatibility fixes either, just OG version with "the correct" selection of mods.

 

[anthraticus]

In that case you shouldn't be playing anything post-2007, just replaying games from 1998 over and over again cause apparently everything since then was horrible.

No modern editions with QoL improvements and compatibility fixes either, just OG version with "the correct" selection of mods.

There's so much good old stuff out there (combined with some non sjw newshit, like I mentioned) I wouldn't even have to keep playing the same stuff over and over. Plus mods... like good user created content. I'll be good for LIFE.

 

[anthraticus]

Reminds me to get started on this 'Realms' series from Ray Dyer in Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures. Classic stuff here like.. Horror on the Hill, the original Ravenloft, Tomb of Horrors etc..

By the time I'm done with that the Hearkenwold mod for Knights of the Chalice 2 should have recieved a big content update we've been waiting on.

 

[Guilty_AI]

There's so much good old stuff out there (combined with some non sjw newshit, like I mentioned) I wouldn't even have to keep playing the same stuff over and over. Plus mods... like good user created content. I'll be good for LIFE.

No. Everything modern sucks and is way worse than the originals they're based on. Any modern mod sucks cause modding isn't the same as they were in the 90s and early 2000s. You aren't supposed to enjoy anything that came out after 2005, only allowed to wallow in self-misery at how gaming sucks these days and how only this specific set of games from someones childhood are the truly good ones.

 

[bender]

No. Everything modern sucks and is way worse than the originals they're based on. Any modern mod sucks cause modding isn't the same as they were in the 90s and early 2000s. You aren't supposed to enjoy anything that came out after 2005, only allowed to wallow in self-misery at how gaming sucks these days and how only this specific set of games from someones childhood are the truly good ones.

 

[KimDongHwan]

Catering to the masses is how Final Fantasy lost its way and became an action game.

This times 100000

 

[Filben]

It feels super satisfying when a plan works out and the hit feedback and animation look cool, especially if you crit someone with a two handed weapon. Was already great in Divinity games.

I find real time pausable combat for a party to chaotic these days, and you either have to pause every other second anyway and if not, because there's so much going on simultaneously, you can't really enjoy animations and the exact moment something works out.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

And do you think if BG3 had a battle system similar to "Dragon Age: Inquisition", it would have made the game more appealing to a broader audience?

What heresy is this? DAI has absolutely terrible and boring af MMO-style combat and no RPG in existance should or must have something similar, ever. There's not even a question here some should ask, let alone answer.

 

[ahtlas7]

This is similar to asking about the difficulty in Souls games.
The very thing that makes it adored by fans could make it despised by others.

 

[Wildebeest]

No. Everything modern sucks and is way worse than the originals they're based on. Any modern mod sucks cause modding isn't the same as they were in the 90s and early 2000s. You aren't supposed to enjoy anything that came out after 2005, only allowed to wallow in self-misery at how gaming sucks these days and how only this specific set of games from someones childhood are the truly good ones.

These grognards love to complain all the time like the world is ending unless they get Wizardry 9 except with added racism, misogyny, carnivore diet advocacy and intellectual Joe Rogan quotes. But open up the voting, and they still vote for Witcher 3 and Original Sin just like a baby millennial. Divine Divinity was a cult classic with the CRPG crowd from when it was released because it added a lot of classic Ultima features to the Diablo clone, and it was the shitty mainstream review sites who were complaining it didn't have "modern features" like the romance option followers in Baldurs Gate 2.

 

[Techies]

I like it how it is, although I would kind slomo real time tactical combat instead of the pausing which happens in something like DAI

And I also want BG3 in VR, one thing that works really well is the ability to navigate the battlefield. Imagine an ogre yeeting your character off a cliff and you slow down time, use eye tracking to target your character falling and casting feather with a gesture.

In order to be tactical (especially with multiple units) one needs time to think, that can be pausing the game or just slowing it down.

 

[owandeseis]

I think the game's quite PC public oriented, i am sure the more casual people would prefer a realtime combat, but at the same time that people would take an Assassins Creed or Spiderman like game over this BG3 any day so i am not sure if it would have really helped.

Divinity 2: OS has one of the best combat systems i've tried in a game, on the highest difficulty mode at least, just so well balanced, almost every fight in the game was interesting. Sadly can't say the same about this BG3, combat's a bit meh, it was good and i had high hopes during the first few levels but after that it's just too simple, i'd say the last intense fight i had was the spider one where i was level 3 if i recall correctly, and now im about to reach act 3 so that was dozens and dozens of hours ago.

 

[Skifi28]

I see nothing wrong with the combat system and I'm not even a fan of turn based combat. Speaking about BG3, when you want to adapt a system about combat in rounds going real time just doesnt work very well.

 

[Shut0wen]

Honestly dont get how people dont like turned based combat, some games can be repetitive at times but larian turned based combat have made the genre fresh with the amount of abilitys you can have, but both origjnal sin and the 2nd game have a very tough learning curve up until lvl 15 then its a breeze

 

[darrylgorn]

I think there's merit in both turn-based and real time with pause.

Personally though, there's something extremely satisfying about doing 'the right thing at the right time' with turn-based.

I actually had no interest in turn-based rpgs early on. Then I really got into XCOM and that changed things completely for me.

If you can imagine combat in this game from that kind of set up, then you will relish every encounter.

 

[NT80]

The first time I ever saw turn based combat was a demo of Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast and thought it was the stupidest thing I'd ever seen. Apart from looking ridiculous they felt really unsatisfying.
I've stayed away from them over the years which is the main reason I never got into Final Fantasy in the past or Baldur's Gate and games like them. I'm still open to trying to get into them though and I would play Baldur's Gate 3 and the Yakuza 7 Like a Dragon game. I need to give them more time.