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[Eel O'Brian]

direct download - http://media.libsyn.com/media/borecast/Borecast22.mp3

Doug and Kevin kick off the Halloween season with some talk about horror games, discuss some current (and underrated) games we've been playing, read and respond to your comments, and slime it up at the end with a tough Either/Or! Also, Citizen Kane and furries. Again with the furries. What's wrong with you people?

Segment One: Horror Games

A lengthy discussion about what makes a game scary, suggest some of our favorites which you may have overlooked, and ponder where the genre might go in the future.

Segment Two: Playlist, Listener Comments, Either/Or

Playlist

(45:21) A shameful confession

(49:45) Metroid Prime Trilogy

(1:00:15) Darkest of Days update - screw you, it's still good. And funny.

(1:04:05) Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2

(1:08:50) Demon Souls

(1:13:00) Doug's Batman impressions

Listener Comments

(1:15:33) We pound the final nail in our "Games vs. Art" discussion.

CONTEST

(1:51:40) Win a copy of Dirt 2 for PC by telling us "Why PC gaming will never die."

Either/Or

(1:54:30) D-List debauchery.

We'll talk to you again next week...around the same day, sort of!

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I'm horrified to find that within a couple of hours, this was not on the first page.

So bump...and downloading!

 

[Brobzoid]

I'm offended that a specific date was given for this episode and then here it is two days later!

Spoiler

demon's souls!

 

[Tamanon]

Woo, downloaded and off to listen in parts. Wonder what the shameful confession is.:lol

 

[UraMallas]

Off topic in the OT?

 

[bengraven]

I love the Borecast, but it really makes me realize there's no good reason why we can't have a GAFcast.

For the record, I really liked the old GAFcast, especially the only GAF videopodcast and sprk's emo web journal on Youtube rocked.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

I'm offended that a specific date was given for this episode and then here it is two days later!

Spoiler

demon's souls!

Yeah, sorry about that, I've been running into some technical issues on my end the past few episodes. For some reason Doug's track is bleeding through on my track during recording, and running it through noise reduction doesn't help much - so I have to manually silence all the spaces where I'm not talking. It pretty much triples the editing time. Hopefully I can isolate the problem and get it ironed out soon.

 

[Kevtones]

Oh shit, awesome lineup. I love working out to Doug and Kevin's voices.


Edit: Also, my referral program comment on the last episode was a joke more or less. She really loves the podcast though and I've suggested it to my gamer/non-gamer friends so hopefully you guys get some more love ~

 

[Brobzoid]

Great episode as usual. Really diggin' the horror game stuff. I'm not much for horror films as I'm usually the shithead that's telling everyone why whatever the characters are doing is stupid. Last horror film I liked was The Shining I think. It does work a lot better in games, but it has a host of issues of it's own. Mostly the controls, which you touched upon, but also there never really is a good enough reason to be scared. I played a little bit of Siren on PS3 at a friends house and while it was fun enough and there were some cool horror elements, it basically boiled down to trial and error running through a set of rooms without alerting the freaky zombie nurses, or if you did and managed to get to your goal anyway it was all good. And the first times you didn't manage to get through all that happened when you got caught was that you died. :|

It's not scary to die in a goal oriented video game, and especially when you die frequently. I was thinking while listening, maybe a horror game where you aren't instantly overpowered by the enemy when they find you. Rather you are capable enough to get away with maybe a couple of scratches and then having to deal with being hurt or potentially bleeding. And the bleeding would make it easier for those hunting you to find you and obviously if your leg is damaged you would suffer a limp, etc and having to deal with these things by finding bandages or using a stick and some ducktape as a support bandage for a broken leg....

I did find Silent Hill 2 to be quite scary though, but I went out of my way to ensure that. I took my ps2 and the game out to my dad's cabin, which is on this tiny-ass island out in the fjord. The cabin isn't big and there is only one electrical light, an outhouse and we use a well for water. Playing the game there, with a headset, at night over a weekend was scary as all hell.

Also regarding the artsy fartsy stuff; I really dig the Team ICO games. Ico and SotC are probably in my top five games five days of the week (and I fucking love the momentum based movement), but I do agree when it comes to the "is games art" discussion that art is based around technique more than message/theme. So while I think Ico has a very strong atmosphere and I like a lot of the things they do with pacing and contrasts (the windmill area being a good example of both of these) I'm not inclined to say it's art in the same way that the calligraphic prints I have on my wall are art. The prints are in Arabic, which I don't understand and even if I did the letters are all so messed up it's probably as difficult as reading graffiti, so god knows what they actually say - I might be decorating my house with racial jokes for all I know.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Finally listened to it:

- I will re-Wii once Mario Galaxy 2 comes out. So I can't give anyone shit there! Metroid Prime, at least the first one, was a good game. One of the few games I gave a damn about when it came to getting 100% completion. It meant a lot of scanning but I really got into it. When I re-Wii, maybe the Trilogy will be $20 or cheaper so I can play it again.

- My comment about games as art was kind of a "both have merits so I don't know." I think art put into games gets overshadowed by general fanboy obnoxiousness. Like I said, a lot of fanboys want their fanboy game of the forever du jour to be considered art. Uncharted is not art. Killzone 2 is not art. It has a lot of artistic effort put into it but people want them to consider it art to justify their fanboyish feelings towards a title; to make those feelings legitimate. The proof is that many times they do not touch on the actual art of the game.

They will do this for The Last Guardian also. I agree with Eel in that if games can't be both well designed and playable, it at least needs to be playable. A decent premise should not override janky controls. Good texture work should not take precedent over boring, repetitive gameplay. Those are not good games. I'd rather take an ugly but fun playing game than a great looking but boring game. A lot of the "games as art" set don't really understand this or think that gameplay is ultimately irrelevant as long as the effort is made design wise.

 

[Drinky Crow]

nsmb wii is lookin' pretty hawt, too. i am am 99% sure i will re-wii in the coming year.

 

[Calcaneus]

After much deliberation, I'm gonna have to go with Kathy Griffin as well.

 

[Limedust]

Wow, I'm late. Will DL tonight.

 

[Brobzoid]

They will do this for The Last Guardian also. I agree with Eel in that if games can't be both well designed and playable, it at least needs to be playable. A decent premise should not override janky controls. Good texture work should not take precedent over boring, repetitive gameplay. Those are not good games. I'd rather take an ugly but fun playing game than a great looking but boring game. A lot of the "games as art" set don't really understand this or think that gameplay is ultimately irrelevant as long as the effort is made design wise.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I don't think the team ico games are well designed at the expense of game-play. I like that the controls are momentum based and that you aren't controlling the horse when you are riding it. Obviously it's very different from how other games do it, but I don't think it's worse, just different. And the repetition/monotony in SotC isn't detrimental to my enjoyment of it either - just like I liked the sailing in Wind Waker - I find it very serene and let's me do my thing at my own pace. So while it's incredibly niche in the approach, it doesn't make it bad.

Maybe I'm a fringe opinion in all of this seeing as I rarely like the games that everyone is creaming over anymore. I think Doug described it pretty well in that I want something that I haven't already experienced instead of just the same formulaic stuff I've had before. Uncharted 2 is probably a good game, but to me it's just a tomb raider game with some inane shooting mixed in with a great presentation. I feel like I've played that game before, only with a poorer presentation.

Compared to the mountain of games I had for PS2, I only have five or so (disc) games for my PS3, and out of those I really only play Street Fighter. Maybe I've devolved into one of those 'high concept indie-only' snobs without realizing it.

 

[entremet]

I love the Borecast, but it really makes me realize there's no good reason why we can't have a GAFcast.

For the record, I really liked the old GAFcast, especially the only GAF videopodcast and sprk's emo web journal on Youtube rocked.

I do as well. It was really well done. Even if it was done monthly or bi weekly it would suffice.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

For those interested in something different, might I suggest you direct your dickbeaters towards a copy of Darkest of Days?

 

[Corky]

yay, god I love the borecast, cant believe I didnt listen to you guys up until mere weeks ago.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Brobzoid: I agree but I just think that games need to be games first and foremost. Having great designs but shoddy gameplay is not a good game. I don't play much either and I think the PS2 was just that great of a system but there isn't a current gen equivalent.

Corky: I hate podcasts but I listen to this one every time! I think a lot of it has to do with Kevin and Doug being more interesting personalities. Most podcasts try way too hard and it shows. Not every sentence needs to be uproariously funny or plays up to personalities as opposed to content. I'll stop there as this isn't the thread for it but yeah, it is a great podcast!

nsmb wii is lookin' pretty hawt, too. i am am 99% sure i will re-wii in the coming year.

When I re-Wii, I'll be getting NSMB, Galaxy 2, and S&P2 for sure. I might even pick up the original Galaxy and Mario Kart again.

 

[Danne-Danger]

You guys should really try the Penumbra games (PC).

They're a sort of first-person horror/adventure. Very heavily inspired by Lovecraft. A lot of physics puzzles and great atmosphere. The combat is pretty janky (as is to be expected), but you won't have to deal with stiff controls.

All three are good games, though Black Plague is the best one if you're short on time. You should be able to find all three relatively cheap anyway (they're on Steam as well).

 

[Kevtones]

Glad to hear Haunting Ground get some love. I don't think Doug mentioned it but the game is also fairly non-linear too and it features practically zero load times. Also, I don't think they were mentioned but have you guys played the Fatal Frame games? They do a decent job at creating suspense although the scares tend to be more startling instead of actual terror.


Other overlooked horror games:

Cursed Mountain - This just came out on the Wii and while it's got some control issues (that are mostly remedied by reading the manual), and it's not particularly scary, the game really nails the atmosphere and surroundings. You're tasked with climbing a never-been-summitted mountain in the Himilayas, and you come across various towns, Buddhist monasteries that get crazier and more interesting the higher you ascend. The graphics are also surprisingly decent for Wii and there's some legitimate wow-moments. Cool game.

Obscure: The Aftermath - This game isn't that overlooked because it's not that good, but it's pretty hilarious and CO-OP. It plays out like typical slasher bs through much of the story (slasher plants actually), but having two people along for the ride gives it a more authentic slasher movie feel. It's on Wii and PS2 I believe and you can probably find it for $10 on the Wii.


Also, if you Re-Wii I highly suggest picking up House of the Dead: Overkill.