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[Jumplion]

Updated procedures in the whole CS:GO Gambling stuff going on. Felt it was important enough to keep discussion going and keeping an eye on Valve's behavior over the years;

A few months ago, Valve finally got around to cracking down on Counter-Strike skin gambling, a sketchy secondary market potentially worth billions of dollars. The saga, however, is far from over. Valve is now facing potential criminal charges from the Washington State Gambling Commission.

A couple weeks ago, the Washington State Gambling Commission said that Valve had until October 14 to “respond and explain” how Steam, despite all the recent gambling controversy, is now in compliance with state gambling laws. After missing their initial deadline to respond, Valve has issued a lengthy letter against assertions that skin betting—which led to an unregulated gambling market where minors were able to participate with little hassle—was in any way their doing.

According to Valve, those services are not inherently illegal and, as a result, should not be shut down.

“We do not want to turn off the Steam services, described above, that skin gambling sites have taken advantage of,” reads Valve’s letter. “In-game items, Steam trading, and OpenID have substantial benefits for Steam customers and Steam game-making partners. We do not believe it is the Commission’s intention, nor is it within the Commission’s authority, to turn off lawful commercial and communication services that are not directed to gambling in Washington.”

VALVe time applies to the legal system apparently.

Place your bets on the odds of locking this if old.

EDIT: Here are scans of the official statement from Valve. Thanks Nzyme32

 

[JeffGrubb]

Basically, Valve is saying: "You don't try to shut down toy companies that manufacture dice just because some people use them to gamble."

They kinda have to fight this.

 

[Jonnax]

I hope they get fined. EU needs to get involved though, US agencies are too prone to getting told to back down after brown envelopes land in the laps of politicians.

 

[PrinnyBomb]

It's really not their fault, they give users the ability to trade and it's beneficial all around, but they can't stop abusers.

 

[Jumplion]

Basically, Valve is saying: "You don't try to shut down toy companies that manufacture dice just because some people use them to gamble."

They kinda have to fight this.

Fair enough, though I would counter with that you can use any type of dice to gamble from any manufacturer. In contrast, these gambling enterprises necessitate the use of the trading system and credential system that VALVe has made, and VALVe makes money from them.

 

[LordRaptor]

Felt it was important enough to keep discussion going and keeping an eye on Valve's behavior over the years

(sigh)

 

[CambriaRising]

It's really not their fault, they give users the ability to trade and it's beneficial all around, but they can't stop abusers.

Yes they can.

 

[MUnited83]

Yes they can.

Maybe with some dark magic yeah, but otherwise nope, they really can't. They can try to limit it, but it is impossible to stop.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

They can't stop abusers but they sure waited quite a while to crack down on this gambling shit.

Valve allowed this gambling scene to survive and thrive. They should be held at least partially accountable for it.

 

[True Fire]

It's really not their fault, they give users the ability to trade and it's beneficial all around, but they can't stop abusers.

They completely enabled mass betting sites with their API though. They didn't do anything until it blew up

 

[MUnited83]

They completely enabled mass betting sites with their API though. They didn't do anything until it blew up

Their API does nothing more than let people login securely. It's the slexact same fucking thing as Facebook or Twitter's OpenID. It's not required or needed for gambling and gambling will continue without it.

 

[Maztorre]

Well I personally hope win states are patched out of videogames going forward at the behest of the Washington State Gambling Commission. Someone has to step up and protect the kids from Marvel vs Capcom 2 money matches.

 

[Krejlooc]

(sigh)

Very trump-like spin

 

[SapientWolf]

They completely enabled mass betting sites with their API though. They didn't do anything until it blew up

They don't have a realistic chance of stopping this as long as trading is possible. Valve can't even stop piracy on their own platform.

 

[Maztorre]

Felt it was important enough to keep discussion going and keeping an eye on Valve's behavior over the years

Someone has to keep an eye on crooked Valve. You all need to get out there and watch carefully for anyone logging in with OpenID. Sad!

 

[Acorn]

It's really not their fault, they give users the ability to trade and it's beneficial all around, but they can't stop abusers.

Yes they could and did.

They just didn't before it blew up because tech libertarianism suits them and takes less effort.

 

[MikeDown]

Yes they can.

How?

 

[Wereroku]

Maybe with some dark magic yeah, but otherwise nope, they really can't. They can try to limit it, but it is impossible to stop.

It didn't help that valve employees were whitelisting bots for major gambling sites to eliminate the trade timeouts and what not. They were definitely involved more then they state here.

 

[MUnited83]

Yes they could and did.

They just didn't before it blew up because tech libertarianism suits them and takes less effort.

All they did was sending some cease and desist, shut down OpenID access and banned a couple of bots.



All those measures are very easily bypassed.

 

[pager99]

They can't stop abusers but they sure waited quite a while to crack down on this gambling shit.

Valve allowed this gambling scene to survive and thrive. They should be held at least partially accountable for it.

My feelings too the whole skin scene reeks of immorality

 

[Wereroku]

All they did was sending some cease and desist, shut down OpenID access and banned a couple of bots.

All those measures are very easily bypassed.

They could hurt the gambling if they made you wait 48 hours for a trade to go through. It would limit gamblers from reupping their accounts quickly and make the sites move at a snail's pace. With the seller able to cancel the trade anytime in that 48 hr period.

 

[BigEmil]

They can't stop abusers but they sure waited quite a while to crack down on this gambling shit.

Valve allowed this gambling scene to survive and thrive. They should be held at least partially accountable for it.

This. Valve couldn't care less since they were profiting off this heavy themselves lasting a long time.
They only now started action because of being exposed and such and went big to save some face they had to finally retort to this

 

[BHK3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio

Valve created this culture and it will never leave. Humble beginnings with unusuals and earbuds and bills hat, now here we are. People open up a knife skin, list it for $400 on the marketplace, valve gets a cut, rinse repeat.

 

[MUnited83]

They could hurt the gambling if they made you wait 48 hours for a trade to go through. It would limit gamblers from reupping their accounts quickly and make the sites move at a snail's pace. With the seller able to cancel the trade anytime in that 48 hr period.

That's a ridiculous proposition. It would mostly affect legit users, not gamblers. And they could bypass that too, just have people transfer their items to the site's bot and convert it to site credit to use on bets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9RjDRLBWio

Valve created this culture and it will never leave. Humble beginnings with unusuals and earbuds and bills hat, now here we are. People open up a knife skin, list it for $400 on the marketplace, valve gets a cut, rinse repeat.

That has nothing to do with this thread though.

 

[Nzyme32]

This article is pretty shitty (as many of these are) as it cuts out so much of what is in the actual letter - which is much more than "we didn't do shit" and denial "we won't do shit" or that they haven't done anything at all

Valve have been horribly lazy in actually enforcing their terms, but despite that the systems for trading are worth the fighting for as the uses for users are far beyond the external gambling sites. Regardless though, action needs to be taken to reduce the ability for uncontrolled gambling of virtual items.

 

[Jumplion]

(sigh)

Very trump-like spin

Considering Valve's history and habit of doing as little as they can until they're forced to react, and the tendency of online stories coming and going from the public conscience as fast as they do, I don't think it is unreasonable to watch the proceeds of cases like this. I'll fully admit I'm a bit biased here since Valve have been rubbing me the wrong way for a good long while with their behavior, but this is a case that would affect a lot more than just Valve no matter the outcome.

Someone has to keep an eye on crooked Valve. You all need to get out there and watch carefully for anyone logging in with OpenID. Sad!

I've heard too many stories about Steam, certain areas! I hear too many bad stories, and we can't lose a Steam sale because of you know what I'm talking about!

 

[Whompa02]

They're 100% in their right to deny this too I think.

 

[Wereroku]

That's a ridiculous proposition. It would mostly affect legit users, not gamblers. And they could bypass that too, just have people transfer their items to the site's bot and convert it to site credit to use on bets.

That has nothing to do with this thread though.

Making someone wait a day or two isn't a big deal and would hurt the betting sites because it would keep people from bidding after loses. Casino's know they have to keep people focused on the game because if they leave the casino they spend less. Also allowing people to cancel the trade in that 48hr period would help control the gray market on skins.

They're 100% in their right to deny this too I think.

Yep but now is the part were the gambling commission takes them to court to force the changes.