Support NeoGAF

[MadClacker]

While I was primarily aiming my concerns towards consoles, and claim that PC isn't completely immune or exempt to future proofing - I will say that it is nice of Steam to let me download games that can no longer be purchased from the store. An example of this would be the original Doom 3 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Right now, you can only buy the released BFG and Director's Cut versions, respectively. But at the same time, it's pretty scary to think that if Valve experience an unexpected outage or issue to their servers, I'm out of pocket by several thousand dollars.

Though the focus of my issue lies with patching and updating of video games across all modern platforms.

 

[petran79]

In a few years you'll likely be playing PS3 and Xbox360 games on PC through emulation, with all patches and DLC unlocked

 

[MadClacker]

In a few years you'll likely be playing PS3 and Xbox360 games on PC through emulation, with all patches and DLC unlocked

There's not been a working PS3 or 360 emulator to date, and there probably never will be. Besides, emulation is just that... emulation. Even if a working emulator were to be released, you're still relying on .iso's or original retail image files - so you'll still run into the issue of playing unpatched games.

The chances of modders going in and reverse engineering games to include all the patches, updates, and packing it into a single image disk is very unlikely. Just give us the option to download these patches ourselves. I don't see what harm it'd do. Instead of automatically installing the update update upon downloading - give us the option to copy to external storage and THEN install it. Just an option would be nice.

 

[Katori]

I believe that a "floating cycle" like Sony/MS are transitioning to with Neo and Scorpio will alleviate a lot of these issues. I really hope that it turns out to be that way for a while, at least until the next major changes in CPU architecture.

There's not been a working PS3 or 360 emulator to date, and there probably never will be. Besides, emulation is just that... emulation. Even if a working emulator were to be released, you're still relying on .iso's or original retail image files - so you'll still run into the issue of playing unpatched games.

What? Just...what? Both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have working emulators that are ingame with sound and have progressed immensely in the past two years. So does the Wii U, which is around the same power level. Also, the games preservation community has archived almost all of the available patches, so your second point is moot as well.

 

[petran79]

15 years ago we were saying the same about PS2 emulation. Look where it is now

Sometimes patches remove instead of adding features.
Eg the newer patches of the indie game Freedom Planet, removed some story dialogue. To the creators this might have seen superfluous and redundant, but it was a key element in enjoying the game.

Fortunately I had downloaded the old version from Humblestore instead of the Steam version. Or another example, the removal of soundtracks from GTAIV after an update.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Well on Nintendo systems (or at least the Wii and DS from what I remember), games have the latest patches required for them when subsequent copies were printed so it was never a concern. I've been digital only for a while, so I'm not sure if that's still the case

 

[Version 3.0]

I have backup PS1's and PS2's, but no PS3's. You seem to grasp my sentiments exactly. I have the Silent Hill's "PT" game on my PS4. I know of no way to back it up and I obviously can't redownload it either.

I'm in the same boat, don't want to lose PT. IIRC, there is a way to be able to re-download it, though. Something that was figured out some time after it was pulled...I'd have to find the old thread. I never tried it myself, since I have it.

And this was posted above about backing up PS4. Might come in handy sometime:

You're making a lot of assumptions that a couple minutes of Googling could clear up for you. Here is an article of how you can backup all of the data on your PS4 using an external HD.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/features/how-to-take-a-backup-of-your-ps4-games-and-data-686575

 

[Polioliolio]

You're late to the party, and they don't give a bit of a damn, by the way.

Your best bet to play these old games is to do what they want you to do, subscribe to their services forever and ever and maybe those games will exist there.

Classic gaming stops at the PS2. The internet requirements and the general poor quality of those systems onward pretty much guarantee you won't be playing them 20 years from now.

For me, I'm not so interested in collecting anything on disc, as that shit doesn't last very long typically, but the internet thing kills the future potential, dead.

 

[nkarafo]

Hopefully pirates can/are preserving all patches, updates, and DLC.

This.

Or just have multiple versions of dumps, like how Goodmerged sets are for carts. For instance:

Red Dead Redemption (U) [!] [Vanilla]
Red Dead Redemption (U) [!] [Patch1]
Red Dead Redemption (U) [!] [Patch2]
Red Dead Redemption (U) [!] [Patch2+DLC]

And so on.

If you're talking about owning the system and picking up a game for it 15 years down the line, then you never owned that game in the first place and it would be ok to purchase on a service like PS Now instead.

Yes but only a selected few games will be available. Certainly not the whole library.

 

[Demoskinos]

I hope that was sarcasm because what you just said makes no sense. If they shut down services have fun downloading those digital games again if you lose them.

And how is game preservation going the way of the dodo? Thanks to scene groups and fan communities, you can still get almost any game that was ever released. Game preservation is fine from my point of view.

Thats exactly what I'm saying. I DON'T care about that scenario. I care that I can play my games right now. Once the system becomes irrelevant I've most likely moved on to whatever is new anyways. And yeah there are some measures to keep online games alive but with all the hoops you have to jump through for that stuff I could not care any less.

I miss the original Metal Gear Online like hell. There is a fan project keeping that alive right now but do I also want to go through all the hoops to play it? Nope!

I'd rather games as a whole move to being a service rather than a product you buy honestly. Cause I almost never care about going back to old games.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Playstation Now and similar services in the future will have you covered.

Yep.

Everything will be cloud/streaming based eventually.

Personally, I almost never replay games, much less prior gen games, so I really don't care one way or the others. Games are just more or less veg out and shut my brain off form of entertainment for me, so I can see how those who are more into them, into them as art etc. care more about preservation.

 

[epmode]

Threads like this (which I completely agree with) make me happy that PC gaming and emulation exist.

Playstation Now and any other streaming solution is a poor alternative, even when you disregard the fact that you're paying again for games you already own.

 

[ViciousDS]

Not every game I want to play is on PC

No, but when they moved to x86 architecture it just means 20 years from now they should have no problems with emulation if needed as well along with folks dumping updates and whatever else they can get to preserve a game

 

[finley83]

I think people who don't care about preservation don't see gaming as an art form but just as disposable timewasting. As the idiom goes, you don't know what you've lost til it's gone.

 

[itxaka]

Its funny that crackers usually offer patches for cracked games individually like Assassins.Creed.Syndicate.Update.v1.31.Only-CODEX.

I'm not even sure if Unisoft allows you to download individual patches directly or you have to rely on uplay to auto patch, but its just crazy that you can store future patches for games thanks to crackers instead of the developer.

Wasn't also ninja gaiden black's dlc only available to modded Xbox as Xbox live went down and the content was no longer available legally? Ninja fucking gaiden son, the 50 or so missions and some weapons I think went poof and again crackers saved the day.

Says a lot of the current publisher vs consumer rights situation :/

 

[MadClacker]

Once again, I'd like to thank those for correcting some of my statements. I didn't realize 360/PS3 emulation had come as far as it has over the last few years. Even still, I must contest that emulation really ISN'T the real thing and true compatibility across such vast libraries of games is a hard thing to guarantee. But at the end of the day, emulation is just getting the game to run. What I'm talking about is my fear that we won't be able to efficiently play the updated versions of these games.

I think there's more than enough console units to go around. I have no issue finding PS3's and especially 360's that I could buy. But once those servers are offline, I'm stuck with, in many cases, unfinished games. Emulation won't fix that. Streamable services like PlayStation Now are a genuine alternative, just one that I don't agree with as you're still dealing with online server based distribution that will inevitably one day cease to be.

To the poster that mentioned Ninja Gaiden and it's exclusive DLC - that sucks! I never realized that. I only played (and own) the original release for the game. Never played "Black".

Remember on Marvel vs Capcom 3 you could buy DLC that let you play as Jill Valentine? Didn't they then later on remove the DLC for good, essentially rendering the character available only to those who have the data downloaded and installed on their console without any option to redownload. THAT'S bad. I may be incorrect on a few details here, so feel free to correct me.

It's funny really, but I think we're going to end up relying a LOT on piracy and "backdoor" methods in order to get some of these soon-to-be-old games up and running.

 

[Version 3.0]

On the topic of emulation: yes, the emulation scene is very cool. It's amazing what that community has done over the years, and especially impressive what they've done as computing devices get more complicated. I've been dabbling with emulators since the late 90's. Over that time, I've seen emulators for many systems progress from barely working to near perfection, while also offering options beyond the capabilities of the original hardware. But it's a long process. Generally speaking, emulators for older systems are closer to perfect, and ones for recent systems are rougher, either partially working, or on a game-by-game basis, or both.

But they continue to improve, over time. It's really amazing to see.

From my personal perspective, though, I don't consider them when discussing this topic. Not only are emulators of more recent systems less accurate, as I noted, using them is beside the point. It's like knowing I can get a new TV, couch or car for free if mine is stolen. That dismisses the fact of the theft, and what I may have liked about my particular TV, couch or car.

The fact that an enthusiast community exists to try and preserve, or even improve, games from the past is wonderful. But it doesn't make it right that I have to wonder whether the simple fact of owning what I purchase is at risk. All I'm asking is to be able to keep and play the games I've bought. Better technology shouldn't put such a basic, once unquestioned right at risk.

 

[Persona7]

Do you need to mod your console to install 360 title updates? I know there are massive archives but I don't know how you install them to your system.

 

[Brianimaniac]

You're going to die one day, so it'll be okay if your games don't work.

 

[Version 3.0]

You're going to die one day, so it'll be okay if your games don't work.

I'm hoping my games will work until after I die.

Of course, I could die today, so what I mean is, I have games and systems which are almost 40 years old and still going strong. It sure would be nice if all my games last as long as those do.

 

[potatohead]

You're going to die one day, so it'll be okay if your games don't work.

That actually does put it in perspective a bit, not gonna lie haha.

 

[JaseC]

Who's paying to keep those hypothetical authorisation servers up?

The third-party content servers I refer to already exist and are not financially incentivised by Valve. Fun fact: My ISP offers some.

What incentive would whoever's left at Valve in the final days have to get this up and running?

Well, for one, the switch wouldn't happen at the last minute. In fact, considering Valve has been saying "measures are in place" for years now, as in they already exist, the logical conclusion is that there is a deployment system sitting idle.

 

[Cru Jones]

Threads like this (which I completely agree with) make me happy that PC gaming and emulation exist.

Playstation Now and any other streaming solution is a poor alternative, even when you disregard the fact that you're paying again for games you already own.

I hate to break it to you, but services like PS Now are going to become the standard in 20 years.

This is my prediction: Games are going to move to a service model. You'll pay a small monthly fee (similar to what you pay for PS Plus) that covers your streaming costs. Then you'll pay for the games that you want to use on the service. In exchange for paying for the service, you won't need to buy a powerful piece of hardware... just a cheap, dumb box that can stream and upload your input. Companies aren't going to want to continue selling boxes of hardware that they lose money on.

Further to this, the subscription service will have multiple tiers that give you access to more powerful servers (think of this as the console generations we currently have). Games will be made to a certain spec for a few years, then they'll upgrade that spec in their data centers and newer games will require that you subscribe to a more expensive plan.

That's when you should start worrying about game preservation.