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[EdibleKnife]

2017 everyone, when will these bigots die out?

Why would they? One generation teaches the next and people as well as society as a whole is too apathetic or too chickenshit to firmly say that intolerance shouldn't be tolerated. We continue to let hate groups exist, we call bigotry simple opinions or religious teaching and it all continues to breed. That hatred is given power by the masses and with that power innocent people are put in the cross-hairs. It's been like that since the beginning of civilization. As a supposedly civil society, until we make tolerance an absolute requirement for participating, bigots will keep climbing social ladders and justify their brutality to themselves and to the people that support them.

 

[chromatic9]

2017 everyone, when will these bigots die out?

Chechnya is a muslim area. It's like asking when will middle eastern countries start living like western Europe, probably never.

 

[Monocle]

Fucking evil.

 

[Nabbis]

Chechnya is a muslim area. It's like asking when will middle eastern countries start living like western Europe, probably never.

I don't think it's all that simple. Muslims are not some unified hegemony and Chechens basically live in similar ways as most Russians do in various things. That said, i don't know what people expect to be done here. Russia already had military conflicts in that region and they would rather not touch that place again. Obviously gay people are a low priority for Russian culture but if it's something that makes Chechens look bad then they will probably be behind it even if riding that moral high horse seems very hypocritical.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Fucking 2017 and we are still seeing this shit.


From Wikipedia:

In 2006 Kadyrov has also started to create laws he says are more suitable to Chechnya's Islamic heritage—banning alcohol and gambling on January 20, and enforcing women's use of headscarves—in defiance of Russia's secular constitution. He also publicly spoke in favor of polygamy on January 13, and declared that lessons in the Koran and Sharia should be obligatory at Chechen schools. On February 11, Ramzan criticized the republican media for broadcasting immoral programs and officially introduced censorship in Chechnya. Because of the cartoon scandal that shook the whole Muslim world, Kadyrov issued a brief ban on the Danish Refugee Council, the most active humanitarian organization in Caucasus.

On June 1, 2006, Moscow-backed Chechen President Alu Alkhanov said he would prefer his republic be governed by Sharia law and suggested adapting the Islamic code, speaking in Paris after inconclusive talks with the Council of Europe. "If Chechnya were run by Sharia law, it would not look as it does today." Alkhanov also dismissed reports of conflicts with Kadyrov, who was widely believed to want to take over the presidency when he turned 30 in October that year and now can legally assume the job.

 

[FStubbs]

the canadians used gay tests back in the 60s, and the russians had this technology as well. I was surprised to learn that there is an industry based around this stuff used in multiple countries.

How do you even test for being gay? Make them look at gay porn (which is illegal in that scenario) and see if they're turned on? (That wouldn't even prove they are gay IMO).

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

How do you even test for being gay? Make them look at gay porn (which is illegal in that scenario) and see if they're turned on? (That wouldn't even prove they are gay IMO).

Something tells me they wouldn't be concerned with scientific accuracy...

 

[nynt9]

Fucking 2017 and we are still seeing this shit.


From Wikipedia:

From this description it sounds more like an Islam thing than a Russia thing. The latter is due to orthodox Christianity.

Either way, this is horrifying. Why isn't this bigger news? Why aren't there more reports on it?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I had to look up the gay test because of how ridiculous it sounds, but holy shit the reality is much more insane...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_machine_(homosexuality_test)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/archives-homosexuality-dector-fruit-machine-1.3833724

Fruit machines. There's a video at the cbc link.

I'm speechless.

 

[Isotropy]

Disgusted by how little attention this is getting.

Not to minimise what happened to the United guy, but it's been wall-to-wall coverage. Whereas GAYS LITERALLY BEING PUT IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND MASSACRED like they were in the Holocaust and... fucking nothing.

Shows how far we've really come.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Disgusted by how little attention this is getting.

Not to minimise what happened to the United guy, but it's been wall-to-wall coverage. Whereas GAYS LITERALLY BEING PUT IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND MASSACRED like they were in the Holocaust and... fucking nothing.

Shows how far we've really come.

I feel the same. That seems to be the go of it with a lot of contemporary acts of inhumanity. People seemingly don't want to pay attention to it. United stuff is a manageable level of cruelty, whereas with this, society would need to ask itself some hard ass questions that they're more comfortable avoiding (i.e. why do we continue to grant power to, let alone stomach, gay-bashing, bible-thumpers when this is the ultimate end point of such regressive hateful views?)

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Woah the quotes in the OP are unbelievable. Vile and repulsive.

Mutually Assured Destruction sure does suck when one side is unabashedly evil.

one side?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

What the hell, the government's response is as close to a confirmation as you can expect.

No, we're not slaughtering gays, but if we did have them, our citizens would slaughter them without a second thought or contact the authorities to do the same. Wink wink.

 

[Zero²]

That this serves as a reminder we are never really far away from the times when being gay was a disease and people where put to jail or worse because of it. And some have the nerve to call gay people entitled for rallying for basic rights and protection, it all makes me lose hope in the future to be honest...

 

[EdibleKnife]

What the hell, the government's response is as close to a confirmation as you can expect.

No, we're not slaughtering gays, but if we did have them, our citizens would slaughter them without a second thought or contact the authorities to do the same. Wink wink.

Makes you wonder why they don't just flat out say "We hate the gays so we're rounding them up, abusing & killing them systematically." It's optics. They know they're being inhumane and sick but are dancing around it for the sake of keeping their appeal.

Ugh I'm gonna cry. I can feel the tears welling up. Fuck.

 

[rothgar]

Meanwhile at the White House: "Even Hitler would not put his people in concentration camps."

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I'm sure trump will look away at this shit. This is absolutely fucking wrong. The point of action is now.

 

[vonStirlitz]

How do you even test for being gay? Make them look at gay porn (which is illegal in that scenario) and see if they're turned on? (That wouldn't even prove they are gay IMO).

There are certain signs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlva37FOC8

 

[slit]

Meanwhile in the United States....


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1359466

While despicable, that isn't even in the same universe of what we are discussing here.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I'm sure trump will look away at this shit. This is absolutely fucking wrong. The point of action is now.

Of course the bitch will look away. His VP basically dreams about creating an environment just like this.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

"If there were such people in Chechnya, the law-enforcement organs wouldn’t need to have anything to do with them because their relatives would send them somewhere from which there is no returning."

Their families would just murder them? Is that what he's saying here?

This is horrific. Something has to be done.

 

[BobNewbert31]

A little more information I didn't see posted yet.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/07/kadyrov-opens-first-concentration-camp-for-gays-since-hitlers-times/#arvlbdata

 

[mckmas8808]

"If there were such people in Chechnya, the law-enforcement organs wouldn’t need to have anything to do with them because their relatives would send them somewhere from which there is no returning."

Their families would just murder them? Is that what he's saying here?

This is horrific. Something has to be done.

Yeah this is insane.

 

[akira28]

How do you even test for being gay? Make them look at gay porn (which is illegal in that scenario) and see if they're turned on? (That wouldn't even prove they are gay IMO).

yes. some scientists went with a penis measuring device that could detect when it moves.

some scientists didn't think that was accurate enough, so they decided to measure eye and pupil movement to see if you dilate.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

A little more information I didn't see posted yet.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/07/kadyrov-opens-first-concentration-camp-for-gays-since-hitlers-times/#arvlbdata

One of those who fled told Milashina and Gordiyenko that before being incarcerated in one of these camps, he had been forced to pay bribes to Chechen police of thousands of rubles every month in order to survive. Now, the regime has taken another step against gays by creating these camps, this survivor says.

Another former inmate said that he and others incarcerated in “the secret jail” were beaten to force them to name other members of the gay community. The address of at least one of these concentration camps is known: it is in the former military headquarters in Argun at 996 Kadyrov Street, symbolic in its way.

Jesus.

 

[Kthulhu]

Mike Pence's wet dream

Or his metaverse palace

 

[EdibleKnife]

Or his metaverse palace

One guy who really needs his heart changed

 

[Insane Metal]

Holy shit @ those claims. Wow.

 

[Gangster Bastard]

Shouldn't Putin/Russia step in and pull on Kadyrov's leash?

This is a monumental human rights disaster.

I don't think there is a leash. Moscow is happy enough that Chechnya has a pro-russian government.
Wouldn't want to jeopardize a good relationship over some silly human rights issue.

 

[archnemesis]

Moscow is happy enough that Chechnya has a pro-russian government.

Not only that. Guaranteed votes from Chechnya makes it easier for Putin to stay in power.

 

[wildfire]

What year is this?!

2017.


In Russia.

 

[Sijil]

As horrific as it is, that's just how Chechen society works, they're more traditionalist and "honor" bound than any other society I've ever seen, more so than Turks, Kurds and Albanians.

For many of them having a gay relative is a stain on your families honor, so when Kadyrov says there are no gays in Chechen society, he means it. Either they hide or they disappear for good.

And obviously no one is going to to change Chechen society over night.

 

[GameAddict411]

The same official response from many Muslim countries. It's very bad to be gay and a Muslim, but it's even worse if you live in the middle East holding those identities. If you research official response about gay rights from muslim country officials, they completely deny their existence. It's easier to just not recognize them because recognition is automatically admitting how much they have failed their fellow human beings. Absolutely despicable, and I hope they get the help they need. It's just wishful thinking unfortunately.

 

[Raguel]

Fuck Russia. Piece of shit country. Everyday I hear something about Russia and it's just bad news all around. Concentration camps for gay. Disgusting in every way and infuriating. And the world doesn't care. Christ I just can't anymore. We messed up bad as a species.

 

[cameron]

So, over the past two weeks, Amnesty International, OSCE, Canada, and other nations have called for Russia to investigate.

On Tuesday (April 18th), Russia's HRC, Tatyana Moskalkova, says investigations are underway.

Russia's human rights commissioner Tatyana Moskalkova, as well as the newspaper, had requested the abductions be investigated.

The press service of the country's prosecutor-general's office told the TASS news agency: "Currently, prosecutors from the Chechen Republic and the region's law enforcement agencies have launched probes into the alleged abductions of people."

This morning (April 20th), AP: "Kremlin: No reason to believe gays abused in Chechnya"

MOSCOW (AP) — Vladimir Putin's spokesman says the Russian president has no reason to doubt the Chechen leader's assurances that there's no persecution of gays in his republic, despite reports by a respected Russian newspaper of a roundup of gay men there.

Spokesman Dmitry Peskov also told journalists Thursday that investigators have found no evidence to back up reports by the Novaya Gazeta newspaper this month that police in the predominantly Muslim republic in southern Russia rounded up more than 100 men suspected of homosexuality and that at least three of them were killed.

Putin met late Wednesday with Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, who in the televised portion of the meeting suggested Putin should not believe the "provocative" reports.

Also from this morning, TASS Press Release: "Russian human rights chief slams claims of 'anti-gay purge' in Chechnya as provocation"

MOSCOW, April 20. /TASS/. Russia's human rights commissioner Tatyana Moskalkova said on Thursday the complaints about alleged persecution of gay men in the North Caucasus republic of Chechnya may be a provocation.

"I have suspicions that this is a provocation and these are hyped-up complaints," Moskalkova said while reporting on her activity in 2016 at the State Duma's committee for developing civil society, issues of public and religious groups. "What exactly is this? Are there indeed victims or does someone plan to capitalize on this?

 

[vonStirlitz]

I read today that it's shit in Nigeria as well. Arrests. Potential stonings.

Can't we just utterly exclude these societies from the global system. If they want to be backwards wankers, then they forego all rights to join international civil society, including trade, banking, travel, aid and so on.

Clearly it's a naive fantasy, given the propensity for Western countries to trade with and support shitty regimes (ahem, Saudi Arabia), but we have to do something. This reflects on all of us

 

[Chmpocalypse]

So, over the past two weeks, Amnesty International, OSCE, Canada, and other nations have called for Russia to investigate.

On Tuesday (April 18th), Russia's HRC, Tatyana Moskalkova, says investigations are underway.


This morning (April 20th), AP: "Kremlin: No reason to believe gays abused in Chechnya"


Also from this morning, TASS Press Release: "Russian human rights chief slams claims of 'anti-gay purge' in Chechnya as provocation"

What an absolute shocker. Godfuckingdamnit.

 

[Karu]

This thread barely made two pages here with THAT headline. And it is not like people would hesitate to debatte "alleged" news in other scenarios.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

I don't think there is a leash. Moscow is happy enough that Chechnya has a pro-russian government.
Wouldn't want to jeopardize a good relationship over some silly human rights issue.

There is no leash but that doesn't mean Moscow is happy with Chechnya, Infact there has been increased tension the Kremlin and Kadyrovs government. Rumors had it that Kadyrov had Boris Nemstov killed steps from the Kremlin not to appease Putin but to make him look bad, that's Russian forum talk though. Regardless, Putin and the Kremlin don't like Kadyrov, they simply tolerate him because they cannot afford to plunge Chechnya into another war. The longer they leave him though the more powerful he is, Chechnyan forces are getting better equipped (ironically by the Russian government) and they grow in number. One of these days he will overreach and the Kremlin will get tired.

 

[Meowster]

This is all so depressing. Hearing stuff like this makes me grateful for what is offered to me here in the States, no matter how hard the religious right may be, can't compare to stuff like this. There's been so little coverage over this too. My heart really bleeds for those suffering. It's so wrong.

 

[UrbanRats]

That's pretty fucking revolting.

 

[Bay Maximus]

I read today that it's shit in Nigeria as well. Arrests. Potential stonings.

Can't we just utterly exclude these societies from the global system. If they want to be backwards wankers, then they forego all rights to join international civil society, including trade, banking, travel, aid and so on.

Clearly it's a naive fantasy, given the propensity for Western countries to trade with and support shitty regimes (ahem, Saudi Arabia), but we have to do something. This reflects on all of us

I'm all for ending trade with countries with abhorrent civil rights records. Of course, international commerce would come to a screeching halt. Off the top of my head, China, USA, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Australia, Nigeria, Israel would all get thrown in there. People are so shitty. I originally felt like we needed some kind of a global threat to finally pull people together, but now you have climate change deniers which leads me to believe that we won't have world peace until another meteor pushes the reset button on this rock.

 

[Wilsongt]

Fucking Christ.

Sir Alan Duncan, Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, told parliament: “Human rights groups report that these anti-gay campaigns and killings are orchestrated by the head of the Chechen republic, Ramzan Kadyrov.

“He has carried out other violent campaigns in the past, and this time he is directing his efforts at the LGBT community.

“Sources have said that he wants the [LGBT] community eliminated by the start of Ramadan.”

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/2...alFB&utm_content=FBBB&utm_campaign=PNFacebook

In a different time and place, the US may have offered to take these people in a refugees...

 

[Jack Scofield]

So, over the past two weeks, Amnesty International, OSCE, Canada, and other nations have called for Russia to investigate.

On Tuesday (April 18th), Russia's HRC, Tatyana Moskalkova, says investigations are underway.


This morning (April 20th), AP: "Kremlin: No reason to believe gays abused in Chechnya"


Also from this morning, TASS Press Release: "Russian human rights chief slams claims of 'anti-gay purge' in Chechnya as provocation"

Honestly, sometimes I feel that Russia takes pride in being the bad guy. It takes a special kind of evil to support this shit.

 

[Monocle]

That this serves as a reminder we are never really far away from the times when being gay was a disease and people where put to jail or worse because of it. And some have the nerve to call gay people entitled for rallying for basic rights and protection, it all makes me lose hope in the future to be honest...

Where's the straight pride parade, hurdy hur.

 

[N7.Angel]

wow wtf ? I've never heard of it, this shit is revolting, fuck this world, you have my full support LGBT community, even if I know it's not enough...

 

[sazzy]

Fucking Christ.



http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/2...alFB&utm_content=FBBB&utm_campaign=PNFacebook

In a different time and place, the US may have offered to take these people in a refugees...

Insane.

 

[EdibleKnife]

For those who'd like to help, the Russian LGBT Network helps LGBT peoples flee areas like Chechnya. Please donate at: https://lgbtnet.org/en

 

[EdibleKnife]

Reviving these topics with more posts and links about this and how to help:

Chechen Violence Against Gays: What Can the Rest of the World Do?
5 Aspects of Chechnya’s Anti-Gay Crackdown That No One’s Talking About

However, we have suggested some other actions people can take, and the video above suggests the following three actions:

1. Donate to the Rainbow Railroad, an organization helping gay and bi Chechens escape

2. Sign every online petition to demand politicians apply diplomatic pressure and sanctions

3. E-mail the Russian Embassy to protest at bilateralrelations@rusemb.org.uk

Also, alturi.org — an online hub for LGBTQ international information — is raising money to help evacuation efforts orchestrated by the Campaign Against Homophobia (KPH), a Polish member organization of ILGA-Europe (the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association of Europe).