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US-China trade: Beijing responds with tariffs of its own

llien

Member
UPDATE:
Trump threatens further $100bn in tariffs against China
US President Donald Trump has instructed officials to consider a further $100bn (£71.3bn) of tariffs against China, in an escalation of a tense trade stand-off.

These would be in addition to the $50bn worth of US tariffs already proposed on hundreds of Chinese imports.

The proposal comes after China retaliated to that by threatening tariffs on 106 key US products.

The tit-for-tat moves have unsettled global markets in recent weeks.

BBC



==============================
Trade tensions between China and the US have been ramped up after Beijing responded to US plans for putting new taxes on hundreds of Chinese imports.

China said it would place 25% trade tariffs on 106 US goods, including soybeans, cars and orange juice.

The tit-for-tat action comes hours after Washington detailed about 1,300 Chinese products it intended to hit with tariffs - also set at 25%.

But President Trump tweeted the US was not in a trade war with China.




Chinese items targeted by the US for tariffs include televisions and motorcycles.

The White House said its proposals were a response to unfair Chinese intellectual property practices.

Stock markets in Europe fell, with investors taken aback by the speed of China's response. In New York, the Dow Jones is expected to open about 550 points lower.

OsXLyqa.png


Beijing has been adamant that it did not want a trade war, but that it would not not back down under US pressure.

"Any attempt to bring China to its knees through threats and intimidation will never succeed," foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said.

"There is no winner in a trade war, and an initiator will harm itself as well as others."

Mr Geng said China had referred the US to the World Trade Organization.

Hopes for a resolution
China's economy has become less dependent on selling goods abroad in recent years, which is likely to blunt the effect of the US tariffs, according to analysts for S&P Global Ratings.

The US was the destination for about 18.2% of all Chinese exports in 2016, according to the US trade department.

American business groups have urged the two sides to try to resolve the issues through talks, expressing concern that threatening tariffs could lead to a dispute that hurts the US economy.

"The administration is rightly focused on restoring equity and fairness in our trade relationship with China," said the US Chamber of Commerce.

"However, imposing taxes on products used daily by American consumers and job creators is not the way to achieve those ends."

BBC
 
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Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
And so they should.

I understand why Trump is doing what he is doing, but I think it is foolish.

The U.S.A. should add iPhone parts to the list, lol. $3000 iPhone anyone?
 
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At least Americans won’t have to wait 5 years for a model 3, since Tesla ships like 20% of there cars to HK

Elon quit the trump advisory council last year, now been bitch slapped by China
 
Remind me, what the promises of globalization were.


This could make in-US production viable... :)

And speeds up automation which is cool. The future of mfg is domestic factories and warehouses automated, no more global supplychain stuff. But the next president would reverse these tariffs so we will not see apple invest more at home than they already plan to due to this.

I expect Trump to back down before it gets more serious.
 
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JDB

Banned
This could make in-US production viable... :)
Unless you guys got some kids hidden somewhere that can work for essentially free under extremely poor working conditions I doubt that.
I'm not sure, given the enormous trade deficit, how China could prevail.
China has a leader that just decided he could theoretically rule the country until death and is a country with a history of not caring that much about its citizens relative to the US. If people in the US need to start paying much more for product or start losing a lot of profit because of Trump's direct actions he'll just get the boot soon enough. China doesn't have these issues.
 
I'm not sure, given the enormous trade deficit, how China could prevail.

We have more to lose than China.

Trump and politicians are trying to get reelected.

Our corporations have influence over our government, and operate on a quarterly basis. Our citizens will be punished swiftly.

China has a command economy, and they're more flexible than we are to deal with this.
 
Some of the saddest things about this situation are:
  1. The stock market commentary
  2. This idea tariffs cause depressions
  3. The belief TPP was a free trade deal or actually about trade
 
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NickFire

Member
This is really non-Republican like... where are the GOP leaders in all this?
Trump is really the only leader of the GOP right now. The rest of the GOP leaders were by and large neutered by the Tea Party, the primaries leading up to the 2016 election, and of course the actual election. They pop their heads out periodically to test the waters on disagreements, but hopes of re-election will keep many of them silent for at least a while longer. They really have no one to blame but themselves. Trump's rise started as a reaction to them as much or more than anyone else.

What's really interesting to me is how the grassroots movement(s) in the Dem party shake out. Will the party find a happy balance between the center left and far left, without losing independents? If so they probably do well in the near future. If not, they are at much more risk than their blue wave coverage would like to admit, because I think more left leaning people would vote for a sure loser out of principal than right leaning people.
 

rokkerkory

Member
Trump is really the only leader of the GOP right now. The rest of the GOP leaders were by and large neutered by the Tea Party, the primaries leading up to the 2016 election, and of course the actual election. They pop their heads out periodically to test the waters on disagreements, but hopes of re-election will keep many of them silent for at least a while longer. They really have no one to blame but themselves. Trump's rise started as a reaction to them as much or more than anyone else.

What's really interesting to me is how the grassroots movement(s) in the Dem party shake out. Will the party find a happy balance between the center left and far left, without losing independents? If so they probably do well in the near future. If not, they are at much more risk than their blue wave coverage would like to admit, because I think more left leaning people would vote for a sure loser out of principal than right leaning people.

Speaking of blue wave, it'll only go so far if the current leaders are still there. Pelosi's time is up, they need new blood and leadership. They can't connect with the younger generation.
 

NickFire

Member
Speaking of blue wave, it'll only go so far if the current leaders are still there. Pelosi's time is up, they need new blood and leadership. They can't connect with the younger generation.
Yeah, every time I see or hear her I cannot fathom how she remains their minority leader. Is it to say f you to Trump? Is it to say f you to the younger and more energized parts of the party? Is it just a refusal to consider prior contributions to her and her allies a sunk cost? Is it pure fear that her replacement will fracture the party internally or with independents? I really cannot tell, but the notion that she is somehow strengthening the party I do not buy into. IMO, she is a lightening rod who at best gets a quick and often disingenuous quote to the media to make the opposition look bad. At her worst, which is more often than not, she sounds like she is regurgitating anti-common sense gibberish while in the midst of a stroke. She's done well for herself, but at this juncture I feel she is putting her party at risk by staying where she is. She's already given every R a free ad with her thousand dollars equaling crumbs bit, and a couple more zingers like that could turn the blue wave into a gentle ripple.
 

llien

Member
The U.S. Trade Representative has published the list of Chinese products that would be subject to its proposed tech tariffs, and there are a few clear themes. The move would hike the costs of about 1,300 products, including industrial robots, communication satellites, spacecraft and a slew of semiconductors. The aim, as before, is to punish China for allegedly goading American companies into transferring their patents and technology to Chinese firms for the sake of claiming economic superiority. The USTR claimed the proposed tariffs would stymie Chinese plans while "minimizing the impact" on the American economy. The tariffs are still subject to a 60-day notice process that would include public comments until May 11th and a public hearing on May 15th.
 
The U.S. Trade Representative has published the list of Chinese products that would be subject to its proposed tech tariffs, and there are a few clear themes. The move would hike the costs of about 1,300 products, including industrial robots, communication satellites, spacecraft and a slew of semiconductors. The aim, as before, is to punish China for allegedly goading American companies into transferring their patents and technology to Chinese firms for the sake of claiming economic superiority. The USTR claimed the proposed tariffs would stymie Chinese plans while "minimizing the impact" on the American economy. The tariffs are still subject to a 60-day notice process that would include public comments until May 11th and a public hearing on May 15th.

Yes we know that it is about patents, should check out these links:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dw.c...chinas-intellectual-property-theft/a-40136538

https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2017/09/19/dont_antagonize_china_over_ip_theft_110360.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ll-create-more-problems-than-they-solve-93897

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com...n-on-chinese-intellectual-property-theft/amp/
 

ickythingz

Banned
This is called competition. Millennials and many others in the world do not understand this and think competition is always negative. This is how the real world works. You put up a fight, your opponent puts a fight and both sides compete. Why is this news?
 

iamblades

Member
So we export $347 Billion less than we import from China, right?


And my trade deficit with the pizza place down the street is 100%, it is still a beneficial relationship for me.

The benefits from trade are one of the most clearly established economic rules we have, probably right after the laws of supply and demand.

No one benefits from a trade war at all.

That said, I think a trade war is pretty much inevitable eventually given the direction of politics in this country, Trump or no Trump. Being anti-trade is the one thing the ascendant factions in both parties seem to agree on these days.

Luckily the US economy is the least trade reliant economy on the planet, so Trump is likely correct that we could 'win' it. But winning a trade war is the textbook definition of a pyrrhic victory. Everyone will be worse off, and just because some other nations might be even more so, doesn't make it a good idea.
 

iamblades

Member
Hm, could you elaborate? I mean, perhaps as far as food goes, yeah, but certainly not for other goodies, for instance, electronics.

Trade to GDP ratio in the US is lower than any other industrialized nation, and well over half of that is within NAFTA.

https://data.oecd.org/trade/trade-in-goods-and-services.htm

This includes everything, food, electronics, medicines, etc.

It would obviously be an enormous hassle and expense for the US if companies had to relocate their entire supply chains back from China to the US, but that might lead to the collapse of the entire Chinese political system.

Not saying that any of this is a good thing(it should've been obvious that I am basically a free trade absolutist), just that is important to recognize the relative scale of the problem in various places. Shale oil has made the US potentially the only nation in the world capable of becoming a total autarky. Peter Zeihan wrote a couple of books predicting just this thing(and much worse things).

Ironically given Trump's rhetoric, Mexico is the country that is best positioned to benefit from a US trade war, assuming they can keep NAFTA alive, as Mexican labor is now cheaper and higher skilled than Chinese labor.
 
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China will not negotiate, EU is ready for counter measures, and Canada and Mexico get emboldened....well played Trump.

The funny thing about IP protections is that while there are major issues there, U.S. companies are still making a fuckton of money operating in such a business environment. You always gotta remember that. Is this worth it?
 
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