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[MagiusNecros]

The constant change and re-imaging of core game system is what has been ruining the franchise for a while now. (at least IMO)

I duno why they can't just follow the true and tested old school mechanics and make a new game if they want to experiment with realtime and semi realtime battle.

They did that with Bravely Default. And people love it. They used the old turn based system, added a gimmick to defend or gain extra turns and ran with it and it is quite solid. And if you liked FF5's job system well you are in for a treat.

 

[Perfo]

They did that with Bravely Default. And people love it. They used the old turn based system, added a gimmick to defend or gain extra turns and ran with it and it is quite solid. And if you liked FF5's job system well you are in for a treat.

I don't quite think BD is the way to go. Put BD on PS3 and 360 as it is and see it bomb as an archaic retro-old school jRPG. FF doesn't need nostalgy to be better. It just needs to look around the globe and take ideas from other devs and games, then reimaginaning all that in do that in a japanese way. They're trying the open world with LR, let's see if they manage to create some unique content within it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I don't quite think BD is the way to go. Put BD on PS3 and 360 as it is and see it bomb as an archaic retro-old school jRPG. FF doesn't need nostalgy to be better. It just needs to look around the globe and take ideas from other devs and games, then reimaginaning all that in do that in a japanese way. They're trying the open world with LR, let's see if they manage to create some unique content within it.

If FF: Majora's Mask is what they want...

 

[Jinko]

They did that with Bravely Default. And people love it. They used the old turn based system, added a gimmick to defend or gain extra turns and ran with it and it is quite solid. And if you liked FF5's job system well you are in for a treat.

Yea they kind of did the opposite with BD, can't wait to try it out when its released

 

[Orayn]

The constant change and re-imaging of core game system is what has been ruining the franchise for a while now. (at least IMO)

I duno why they can't just follow the true and tested old school mechanics and make a new game if they want to experiment with realtime and semi realtime battle.

Well, ATB is semi-realtime, so according to you they abandoned the "tested and true old school mechanics" in 1991. Everything since then (with the exception of FFX) has just been a slight variation on ATB, even the horrifically dumbed down FFXIII.

If you're talking about skill/class/job systems, those have also changed between pretty much every game.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Make it good. Have good characters and story.

 

[Exodist]

They need to drop the XIII series and just move on and do other things. I'll cry if we end up getting 3 games based on XV (actually, didn't Nomura hint somewhere he wanted to do more or something). Just make a game, do it standalone, and if it sucked like XIII did, just move on and make something different. It's only slightly admirable they turned around and made XIII-2 in retaliation to the poor reception, and to me, they did fix a lot of what was wrong with XIII. But why do we need Lightning Returns? Who even cares anymore? They should just focus on getting good main entries into the series and stop with the sequels and stuff, and I'd be happy. At least the disaster that was XIV is about to be fixed with the imminent release of Realm Reborn, which, despite being a mega generic MMO for todays standards is still a million times better than the original release.

 

[Perfo]

If FF: Majora's Mask is what they want...

I forgot to mention that FFXV is obviously doing what I'm saying to an extreme. Devs certanly knows about GTA, AC, TES and co. – more importanly it still feels very japanese. Could be the game they need.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I forgot to mention that FFXV is obviously doing what I'm saying to an extreme. Devs certanly knows about GTA, AC, TES and co. – more importanly it still feels very japanese. Could be the game they need.

I just hope Noctis isn't Shulk from Xenoblade. Because lolvisions makes me skeptical.

 

[Toxi]

I agree with the Duckroll in that S-E needs consistency in their approach. Rather than make endless sequels to numbered FF's, wouldn't it be smarter to use that money to fund side games or side projects such as Bravely Default. It could also be said that one of the core problems with Final Fantasy in 2013 is that it is burdened to be Square Enix's mule horse due to an utter lack of successful new IPs. More than anything, to take the monkey off of Final Fantasy's back, S-E needs to create new content and software that entices game fans to want to purchase them. They were doing good inroads in The Last Remnant, The World Ends With You, Blood of Bahamut, and Nier, and it's a shame those games weren't as successful as they should have been, but that's no excuse to stop trying, Kingdom Hearts was over 10 years ago, there's no excuse S-E have not created a new hit IP since then. No excuse at all.

I'm not sure this is such a good idea; as you pointed out, they already tried making new IPs and most of those new IPs have been failures.

I think Square Enix should really focus on getting the Dragon Quest IP established in the west. A Dragon Quest game is guaranteed money in Japan, so they can afford to take more risks with the franchise, and all it takes is one extremely popular Dragon Quest here to solidify the franchise. Just look at Fire Emblem: Awakening; a previously unpopular series in the west that was popular in Japan has now received a lot of sales and customer acclaim in the west because they made it more accessible.

Note that this is what Square Enix should do to remain "relevant", not what they should do to appeal to my tastes.

 

[Toxi]

They can't keep relying on FF, DQ, and KH. It's not a realistic nor healthy means for expanding business.

I don't think they should totally rely on those franchises, but it's clear that Dragon Quest has a lot of expansion potential that Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy don't.

I do think they can handle new IPs a lot better; Nier was released only a month after a big budget Final Fantasy, so it didn't sell nearly as much as it could have later in the generation when the demand would have been higher.

No this is exactly what they DONT need to do. They have already ruined one franchise by making it something its not and now you want them to destroy DQ as well? They already did huge damage by making DQX a crappy MMO. If the next entry is not back to basics and good eventually that franchise is done as well.

It's more about marketing than it is about gameplay. Most people in the states just don't know what Dragon Quest is.

 

[kayos90]

This thread is a terrible microcosm of barf. It's like people are just posting random unintelligible snipe posts such as suggesting getting rid of Enix more so than actually having a conversation. It makes me curious how many of them survived past being a junior member.

As for the topic, Final Fantasy is still relevant. When FFXV was revealed at E3, people cared. So people still care about Final Fantasy, and the name still has weight. The problem is that S-E doesn't seem to know how to convey a consistent message regarding its products. This a bad thing, but is completely recoverable despite overwhelmingly negative mindshare among fans.

I agree with the Duckroll in that S-E needs consistency in their approach. Rather than make endless sequels to numbered FF's, wouldn't it be smarter to use that money to fund side games or side projects such as Bravely Default. It could also be said that one of the core problems with Final Fantasy in 2013 is that it is burdened to be Square Enix's mule horse due to an utter lack of successful new IPs. More than anything, to take the monkey off of Final Fantasy's back, S-E needs to create new content and software that entices game fans to want to purchase them. They were doing good inroads in The Last Remnant, The World Ends With You, Blood of Bahamut, and Nier, and it's a shame those games weren't as successful as they should have been, but that's no excuse to stop trying, Kingdom Hearts was over 10 years ago, there's no excuse S-E have not created a new hit IP since then. No excuse at all.

S-E has the tools. All they need now is the right architects. The fact there is still not a new Chrono game is completely unforgivable, for instance.

I disagree. SE has had established franchises and failed to make use of them to their strengths. When they did happen to use them it ended up backfiring or just decided to go sequel-mode like a madman. Look at KH. That series was one of the most popular franchises last gen and it's nothing but a blip compared to what it once was. Exaggerations aside, SE, like Capcom, has mismanaged their franchises in one of the worst ways possible and has literally spat on its own community as a result. It's not a simple matter of them not creating new IPs. Some of their most successful IPs' potential was also squandered. TWEWY and BD are both excellent games. Sure TWEWY ended up going mobile but where is the sequel? BD was great so why is the team working on a mobile project instead of creating a sequel? SE's decision making as a whole is a huge problem.

 

[kurbaan]

I'm not sure this is such a good idea; as you pointed out, they already tried making new IPs and most of those new IPs have been failures.

I think Square Enix should really focus on getting the Dragon Quest IP established in the west. A Dragon Quest game is guaranteed money in Japan, so they can afford to take more risks with the franchise, and all it takes is one extremely popular Dragon Quest here to solidify the franchise. Just look at Fire Emblem: Awakening; a previously unpopular series in the west that was popular in Japan has now received a lot of sales and customer acclaim in the west because they made it more accessible.

Note that this is what Square Enix should do to remain "relevant", not what they should do to appeal to my tastes.

No this is exactly what they DONT need to do. They have already ruined one franchise by making it something its not and now you want them to destroy DQ as well? They already did huge damage by making DQX a crappy MMO. If the next entry is not back to basics and good eventually that franchise is done as well.

 

[Jinko]

Well, ATB is semi-realtime, so according to you they abandoned the "tested and true old school mechanics" in 1991. Everything since then (with the exception of FFX) has just been a slight variation on ATB, even the horrifically dumbed down FFXIII.

If you're talking about skill/class/job systems, those have also changed between pretty much every game.

Yup you are really reaching here.

I think Square Enix should really focus on getting the Dragon Quest IP established in the west. A Dragon Quest game is guaranteed money in Japan, so they can afford to take more risks with the franchise, and all it takes is one extremely popular Dragon Quest here to solidify the franchise. Just look at Fire Emblem: Awakening; a previously unpopular series in the west that was popular in Japan has now received a lot of sales and customer acclaim in the west because they made it more accessible.

I don't think its a good idea to change a game for the west and risk alienating your current fan-base, this is the problem Final Fantasy is suffering from because its constantly changing all the time SE are trying to please everybody and not actually pleasing many at all.

Dragon Quest is just fine the way it is.

 

[Toxi]

Yeah, wanting to do that to DQ actually got my physically angry just reading that post. Fuck that.

I don't want Dragon Quest to change, I don't think it has to change, I think the marketing has to change and they actually have to localize Dragon Quest. A game like Pokemon with extremely basic turn-based combat sells huge numbers because it has actual marketing behind it. A lot of people think "turn-based games don't sell" when it's actually "turn-based games typically lack marketing and therefore don't sell". Gameplay isn't what sells units most of the time.

When I'm talking about risks, I'm talking about marketing budget and localizing games, not gameplay risks.

 

[Orayn]

Yup you are really reaching here.

I'm just not sure what you're getting at. You called out "semi real time" as not being classic, but that describes the battle system of every FF on SNES and PS1.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Stop making everybody look like shitty J-Pop stars.

 

[Jinko]

I'm just not sure what you're getting at. You called out "semi real time" as not being classic, but that describes the battle system of every FF on SNES and PS1.

If you think ATB is semi real-time then I duno what to say to you .. its nothing more than a timer.

 

[kurbaan]

If you think ATB is semi real-time then I duno what to say to you .. its nothing more than a timer.

Most of the old games have a Wait / Active setting which you can use the make the game fully turnbased if you desire.

 

[Orayn]

If you think ATB is semi real-time then I duno what to say to you .. its nothing more than a timer.

A timer, yeah, meaning some portion of the battle system operates in real time rather than using a strict turn order. What do you consider semi real time? There are obviously different degrees of it, I just don't see where you're drawing the arbitrary boundary.

 

[Jinko]

A timer, yeah, meaning some portion of the battle system operates in real time rather than using a strict turn order. What do you consider semi real time? There are obviously different degrees of it, I just don't see where you're drawing the arbitrary boundary.

Because turn base IMO is based on taking turns, even with ATB you still have to do this.

Semi real time for me would be something like FF12/13 were you can pause the battle and switch players.

Real time is like Crisis Core.

The highlighted part was why I said you were reaching. (if anything its semi turn based no ?)

 

[Perfo]

I just hope Noctis isn't Shulk from Xenoblade. Because lolvisions makes me skeptical.

I don't know how but I always find Noctis sort out of place in that cast... he is really "animu" while all the others are portraited more realistically and are older. Lol.

 

[injurai]

Most of the old games have a Wait / Active setting which you can use the make the game fully turnbased if you desire.

yup

A timer, yeah, meaning some portion of the battle system operates in real time rather than using a strict turn order. What do you consider semi real time? There are obviously different degrees of it, I just don't see where you're drawing the arbitrary boundary.

and you can pause... it's not dark souls

 

[Orayn]

Because turn base IMO is based on taking turns, even with ATB you still have to do this.

Semi real time for me would be something like FF12/13 were you can pause the battle and switch players.

Real time is like Crisis Core.

The highlighted part was why I said you were reaching. (if anything its semi turn based no ?)

Yeah, I was just using semi real time to refer to anything that a mix of turn-based and real time elements, or at least the option to mix them.

It's a spectrum: FFXII and XIII have more real time elements and less pausing. IV through IX have more pausing if you want them to.

 

[FranXico]

What should Square Enix do to make Final Fantasy relevant again?

Well... let's start with Final Fantasy XV not sucking...

 

[Midou]

Itou is on his way to leave the company imho. I think he is yet another director in S-E that doesn't like to stay behind big huge projects and find more confort in small games. He is behind All The Bravest afterall and that trading card game of few years ago. He'll go Matsuno/Sakaguchi's way in the end, developing indies for iOS and co. For as much as people like to hate on Toriyama, he is of the few directors that managed to release three big AAA games for S-E JP in this gen at a decent pace and with good results as far as profits were considered. He is more a resource than people can think of as duckroll implied.

Profits sure, but still overall damaging to the brand, at the very least in North America. Not sure XIII-2 and LR count as 'big AAA games' though.

Also, his role in All The Bravest was minor, he was a 'co-director' and his name doesn't even appear anywhere on the Wiki page for it. It doesn't seem like he has taken a major role for any iOS game, even his last one 'Guardian Cross' he just made the concept.

If Square Enix was smart, they would have at least been consulting with him for what they should do with XVI. He would be far more competent at it than Toryiama. Toryiama seems incapable of making a traditional Final Fantasy, one with a big world, tons of towns, unique side-quests and all that jazz.

Really if you look at the initial XIII reveal, all Toryiama knew how to do was borrow from FF7. The train scene in the original trailers, cocoon seemingly being like Midgar, Lightning being female Cloud (even had a history similar to him at first). There was much overlap, which seemed more like "I have no good ideas" rather than an homage.

It's funny cause I know you would prefer to have Toryiama work on FFXVI rather than have the man that invented every core FF element and directed 2 of the greatest Final Fantasies, and I find this impossible to fathom from an FF fan.

 

[Amir0x]

"Roses"

Toriyama talking about Lightning's dynamic outfit-dependent cleavage.

.

By the way, since Lightning swings her arm when you change her weapon in the menu screen, that’s a recommended action for sure-fire jiggling! To see it even better it could be useful to equip a small shield. Look forward to it!

I give up, SquareEnix doesn't deserve success. Hope this game bombas them out of relevance. They clearly don't deserve to make games.

 

[jaxword]

Amano didn't do the character designs for FF IX.

He did I, II, III, IV, V and VI.

IV and VI both in my opinion have some of the best characters in the entire franchise.

The characters in-game for V and VI were done by Nomura, based off Amano's designs.

The original watercolor-art was done by Amano, but that wasn't in game, the little sprites that everyone is used to? Nomura.

Less weeaboo shit and fan service. More mature setting and plot.

Get rid of one dimensional protagonists who seem to have mastered the hair straightener as well as the sword (yes, this actually applies more to all of the male leads over the years).

Come on, this is just ridiculous. The SNES games were just as "weeaboo" and fan servicey, you just didn't notice because it was easier to ignore.

And one dimensional? Cecil and Bartz and Locke were as generic as any generic fantasy "Gotta be heroic" character.

 

[timetokill]

I don't know how but I always find Noctis sort out of place in that cast... he is really "animu" while all the others are portraited more realistically and are older. Lol.

So he's basically the Vaan in the lineup.

Or, the Nick Carter if you will.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Noctis is a nerd.

 

[Persona86]

Noctis is a nerd.

Sort of like Clark Kent/Superman?

 

[djtiesto]

To be relevant again, and have good sales, finding back a male demographic, i'll do a simple thing.

Go game of throne, more darkish and occidental heroic fantasy.

Just make Game of Throne / LotR with historical FF elements, great system, crystals, chocobos, depressed characters, sad story, mog, music with great melodies.. It'll be ok really.

For the love of god, don't do this... If you want Lord of the Rings, just play a western RPG.

 

[edotlee]

Stay away from X-2 and XIII-2 type of games. If SE is going to continue with that BS, then at least don't put them under the Final Fantasy name. I get wanting to make sequels and reusing assets to make profits, but you don't have to tarnish your brand name doing it.

Other than that I think SE finally woke the fuck up. FFXIV: ARR looks promising and has been getting a lot of positive vibes. I really like the direction they are taking with FFXV.

 

[spekkeh]

I thought most people found XIII-2 the better game though, so how is it tarnishing?

 

[Parakeetman]

Fire Toriyama.

Also they dont need to go back to FF12. The one they need to look at and emulate is FFX. FF12 while ambitous had its issues and its story and characters barring a few werent that special

Along with Nomura, since his designs just keep getting worse and worse and worse.

 

[DeSo]

Interesting characters go a long way in a FF game.